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Geek Culture / 19 year old kid locked up in jail for sarcastic joke.

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Quik
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 21:33
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Quote: "His downfall is believing he is more intelligent than anyone else, telling them this when they don't accept his opinions or beliefs and using it as a rationale for why he's right and your wrong.
He fails because he fails to communicate, he wont listen to you, your too dumb to understand his genius, its a pity because he lives in his own head."


Mmmh, fair enough



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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xplosys
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 21:42
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I only talk to myself when I need an expert opinion.

I am the underground.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 22:12
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Not so much the crazy ideas but the conviction and arrogance of them. The idea that he knows he's right before the evidence supports him, because he had ideas similar to ones discovered by scientists. He has these ideas but completely fails to explain them, showing a lack of understanding in science and the scientific method, which is why it's hard to take him seriously.

By performing mental gymnastics and going into denial defending his claims, he hurts any credibility to those ideas, because it more or less seems like he's contradicting the norms for the sake of being different. Further demonstrated by how he argues what words mean.

Perhaps there is some truth, but his attitude and approach does him a disservice. It's almost as if he doesn't want to be taken seriously (perhaps why it's easy to think he's trolling.)

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 22:54
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Blimey! Pincho seems to be generating just as many posts now that he's absent. Are you all sure he's not right behind you right now forcing you to hit the Post Message button (I've just checked by the way before you ask )? He's become the invisible troll.
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PixelF
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 00:12
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Most likely this happened in the U.S.

Same thing happened to I knew someone in school about 5 years ago. He said "I am going to blow up the school." and was soon expelled.

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Register now to become a reasonably intelligent human being!
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Libervurto
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 00:26
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Quote: "Same thing happened to I knew someone in school about 5 years ago. He said "I am going to blow up the school." and was soon expelled."

That's even more ridiculous to me because schools are supposed deal with that sort of crap from children, not pass it on to the next person. Why didn't they just chastise him for saying something so insensitive and put him in detention for a week? Please tell me the reason he was expelled was not that they thought he was actually going to do it.

This level of paranoia is pathetic, it's a terrorists wet dream. I can imagine a five-year-old boy pointing a finger at someone and saying "pew! pew! You're dead!"
"OMG! A terrorist threat! Aaaah!!! Quick shoot him in the head before he kills us all!!"
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xplosys
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 00:54
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I guess it's because I can't tell if the person posting is a child or an adult, but I'm often taken back by the comparisons made. In my mind and experience, there's such a huge difference between a student threatening to blow up a school and a 5 year old saying "pew! pew! You're dead!" that I figure it must just be for the sake of drama - or a very inexperienced youth making that statement. That's not a bad thing, but I'm just trying to figure it out.

Brian.

I am the underground.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 00:54 Edited at: 13th Jul 2013 00:59
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I agree OBese. If they were concerned, they could have addressed the issue at hand, rather than having somebody else pick up the pieces.

Perhaps this is a part of the problem. Perhaps more people are interesting in shifting responsibility than to address the source of a problem. It certainly feels that way. One thing I feel worries people is that they could get sued (you unfairly disciplined my son, how dare you, where's my lawyer?), I think both in the US and increasingly in the UK people are quick to take legal action and frankly nobody wants to be sued. We certainly hear more and more of people being sued over what people would previously have thought of as 'nothing'.

Perhaps it's sometimes an unfounded fear, perhaps it feels this way due to how the media puts a spin on it, but a lot of people misunderstand the law and perhaps think if they throw words around like "sue" and "lawyer" they get their own way and maybe for some that strikes fear. The amount of people claiming they're going to take legal action against us at work because they're not happy with the terms of their warranty is unreal. I actually read my warranties before buying something expensive, so I know what'll happen if it goes wrong, so it was alien to me.

However, we don't allow sentences like, "I'm going to a small claims court" or "we're going to trading standards" or "we're going to watchdog" influence us because the company I work for has good standing with each. People are either disgruntled or just misinformed or both.

At least this is the way it feels like society has become. I don't know if that's enhanced by my job, but it felt that way before I worked here.

Quote: "This level of paranoia is pathetic, it's a terrorists wet dream. "


It certainly makes me feel they've won. The thing is, we didn't have this level of paranoia when it was the Irish bombing us. Or so I have been given the impression, I didn't live through it, so I can't speak from experience.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 01:43
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Quote: "I'm often taken back by the comparisons made. In my mind and experience, there's such a huge difference between a student threatening to blow up a school and a 5 year old saying "pew! pew! You're dead!" that I figure it must just be for the sake of drama - or a very inexperienced youth making that statement."

Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to judge, and exercise the possibility that the other person might not be speaking literally. I was exaggerating for effect to get my point across. The fact is that the school should have dealt with the situation like adults instead of cowering and legally disposing of the kid.

I don't know if there is a cultural divide at work here and I use language differently to what some of you are used to, but a few people have been interpreting my comments in a very poor light.
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rolfy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 01:59 Edited at: 13th Jul 2013 02:37
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Quote: "That's even more ridiculous to me because schools are supposed deal with that sort of crap from children"
Says who? Maybe a spell as a teacher would enlighten you. Again we have immature comparison as X say's, what do you know about it?
Quote: "Please tell me the reason he was expelled was not that they thought he was actually going to do it."
They didn't believe it, they dont need to believe it. He proved himself a moron by saying it...thats enough. Schools are meant to teach not provide care for the mentally retarded.If you told me you would bash my brains in I would disagree, probably laugh in your face, it doesnt mean you shouldn't be punished for threatening to....thats how it is. Often its those who threaten that end up running home to mummy and expecting the cops be called to sort things out cos it didn't go their way. I for one have no want or need to be arrested for slapping you when I was threatened...thats why these laws are in place so there is an option to escalation.
For all you know the kid was expelled cause he had a long history of being a pain in the ass and this was the final straw. All you got to go on is 'someone said'. So I guess thats why your response is so short and not exactly informed.
Quote: "However, we don't allow sentences like, "I'm going to a small claims court" or "we're going to trading standards" or "we're going to watchdog" influence us because the company I work for has good standing with each."
Say's who? Your company? If your in breach of anything that good standing will soon vaporize. If you reckon your not doing anything wrong and cant be touched then fine...but if you think it's because you got friends in the right places your deluded. Don't blame me for thinking this way but you came across like that. Next customer you give that attitude to may just prove you very wrong.
Strikes me you got a lot of disgruntled customers. Why is that? Because you got the 'cant touch me' attitude or because you handle things so well and your compnay's record is so shiny, they never make mistakes, or is because mostly idiots buy your product?
Quote: "The thing is, we didn't have this level of paranoia when it was the Irish bombing us. Or so I have been given the impression, I didn't live through it, so I can't speak from experience."
So why make statement on something you know nothing about? I'll tell you since I was around.
Saying your gonna blow up the school was as likely to get you expelled then as now and it had nothing to do with paranoia, its because you are an immature idiot that really should be in a special school where they can cater to your special needs.

Not all laws or actions concerning the stupid are related to 'terrorism'.

The idea that everything was invented today and all things revolve around them is the way it is with youth, the world as it is, was shaped long before most of you were born and not all related to events that happened in your lifetime.
Don't get me entirely wrong as abuse of power and adults being idiots is just as prevalent and some have paid the price many times for their own arrogant beliefs that they were untouchable and could say what they liked when they liked.
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xplosys
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 02:13 Edited at: 13th Jul 2013 02:13
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OBese87,
Sorry, I could have taken time and expressed that differently. I'm sure there is a cultural divide here. I live in a world where these things actually happen so I'm a little more weary and careful.

I am the underground.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 02:32
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They actually happen in the UK too sadly.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 02:42
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Quote: "Says who? Maybe a spell as a teacher would enlighten you. Again we have immature comparison as X say's, what do you know about it?"

I know that school staff are supposed to have some semblance of authority over their students.

Quote: "Schools are meant to teach not provide care for the mentally retarded. If you told me you would bash my brains in I would disagree, probably laugh in your face, it doesnt mean you shouldn't be punished for threatening to....thats the LAW."

Kids act up and say stupid things, that's no reason to treat them like criminals, regardless of what the "LAW" states. I said he should have been punished, but the school should have dealt with it internally.

Quote: "For all you know the kid was expelled cause he had a long history of being a pain in the ass and this was the final straw."

That's quite possible, and why I asked for the reason they expelled him.

Quote: "its because you are an immature idiot that really should be in a special school where they can cater to your special needs."

You were probably typing too fast to realise this but using "you" in this sentence comes off pretty badly, as you can see when I take it out of context.

Quote: "Sorry, I could have taken time and expressed that differently. I'm sure there is a cultural divide here. I live in a world where these things actually happen so I'm a little more weary and careful."

That's okay, I probably come off as a bit insensitive/insane sometimes.
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rolfy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 02:51 Edited at: 13th Jul 2013 03:17
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Quote: "Kids act up and say stupid things, that's no reason to treat them like criminals, regardless of what the "LAW" states. I said he should have been punished, but the school should have dealt with it internally."
They did, they expelled him....

Quote: "For all you know the kid was expelled cause he had a long history of being a pain in the ass and this was the final straw."

That's quite possible, and why I asked for the reason they expelled him."

No, you said " Please tell me the reason he was expelled was not that they thought he was actually going to do it." then went on to say:

Quote: "This level of paranoia is pathetic, it's a terrorists wet dream. I can imagine a five-year-old boy pointing a finger at someone and saying "pew! pew! You're dead!"
"OMG! A terrorist threat! Aaaah!!! Quick shoot him in the head before he kills us all!!""

Am I being obtuse again? Or had you already decided what the reason was?

Quote: ""its because you are an immature idiot that really should be in a special school where they can cater to your special needs."

You were probably typing too fast to realise this but using "you" in this sentence comes off pretty badly, as you can see when I take it out of context."

Well don't take it out of bloody context then...And your point is? Are you seriously trying to make a point with this? You cant take it out of context, its all right there in the posts above...or do you suffer from some kind of dyslexia? Maybe your borderline trolling, if so I would get rid of the fake Mod badge.

If your trying to say things can be taken out of context, of course they can, but not when its in full view for all to see and read for themselves...your experiment/example is in this case a major fail. Do you even have hair on your chuckies yet? You seem very immature.
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Thraxas
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 03:16
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Quote: "I know that school staff are supposed to have some semblance of authority over their students."


As a teacher I find things like this highly offensive.

I always like it when people say 'teachers should deal with it'... it would seem we're here to deal with every aspect of a child's behaviour as well as providing an education... which most of you think we don't do very well anyway...

If a student breaks the law then that's for the police to deal with... it's not passing the buck or should teachers be trained in law enforcement too?

As you didn't give sources for this alleged expulsion then I don't know where in the world it place. Where I work at least, you can't go from no negative behaviour to expulsion in one fell swoop. There needs to be evidence of previous negative behaviour, AND there needs to be evidence of what the school has put in place to support the student to not keep doing these negative behaviours. Without these things an expulsion cannot occur.

Behaviour starts at home. Parents are the problem, not the teachers!
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Libervurto
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 03:22 Edited at: 13th Jul 2013 03:24
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Quote: "They did, they expelled him...."

That's not dealing with the situation, nothing was resolved, they just disposed of him.

Quote: "Am I being obtuse again? Or had you already decided what the reason was?"

This thread is about reaction/overreaction, I was talking generally, but yes I do think it was possible that they thought he posed a serious threat to the school. I haven't decided that was the case but it's a possibility, and seems to be what was implied given that it was even mentioned in this thread.

Quote: "And your point is? Are you seriously trying to make a point with this? You cant take it out of context, its all right there in the post above...or do you suffer from some kind of dyslexia?"

What if I am dyslexic? Thanks. I'm not, but that was still very classy of you.

Quote: "If your trying to say things can be taken out of context, of course they can, but not when its in full view for all to see and read for themselves...your experiment/example is in this case a major fail. "

I was trying to subtly point out that using "you" in certain situations is rude, in a way that avoided coming off as condescending, I guess I failed.

Quote: "Where I work at least, you can't go from no negative behaviour to expulsion in one fell swoop. There needs to be evidence of previous negative behaviour, AND there needs to be evidence of what the school has put in place to support the student to not keep doing these negative behaviours. Without these things an expulsion cannot occur."

This is probably very true. Okay, maybe I took the bait a bit easily on that example.
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rolfy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 03:59 Edited at: 13th Jul 2013 04:03
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Quote: "I was trying to subtly point out that using "you" in certain situations is rude, in a way that avoided coming off as condescending, I guess I failed."
You did...miserably, we both know you got what was being said. You are extremely hard going because you try to change your meaning in retrospect when challenged and clutch at straws in your attempt to twist what I say ....feel free to correct me on this...as I know you will.
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KeithC
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 05:32
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I know we're discussing free speech and all; but I've removed your "Mod Badge" avatar. Don't use it again, this is your warning.

-Keith

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 06:00
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Quote: "I know we're discussing free speech and all; but I've removed your "Mod Badge" avatar. Don't use it again, this is your warning."
He was just trying to have fun, wasn't hurting anyone...
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KeithC
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 06:24
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Quote: "He was just trying to have fun, wasn't hurting anyone..."


Why must we challenge everything? It doesn't matter, it's not allowed; which is why I gave him a warning, not post moderation or a ban. It can't get any plainer.

-Keith

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rolfy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 06:30
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Quote: "He was just trying to have fun, wasn't hurting anyone..."
That's what the kid's parents said.

Welcome to the real world where impersonating an officer is an offense...a warning...this is called due process.

I'm all out of popcorn.
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 06:31 Edited at: 13th Jul 2013 06:33
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Why must you know why I challenge everything? That's silly. /troll

Nah I kid, but simply put I find it odd that kind of thing isn't allowed. It appears to me like the mods are trying to protect their ego by enforcing such a rule. But rules are rules, so you're right, I'm not going to argue it much as that'd be pointless. This forum just isn't... Easy going, so to speak.

Well I mean, I get that it's impersonating and all, but there is a horizontal offset in the position of the badge vs the avatar.

Talking about this is pointless though, not sure why I brought it up.
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KeithC
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 06:48
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The reason is simple (or at least, it should be to most people). If someone comes along (and doesn't know much about this place, or the people involved), and sees someone making posts with what appears to be Moderator status; they will take what is said as official. We can't have that. Period.

This Forum has always been pretty easy-going, and it's had plenty of ups and downs over the years. It's also had it's share of users who love to skirt the AUP, and complain vehemently when they are called out on it. Most Mods here have (over the years) had hate-mail and threats via our email, on numerous occasions. I've even had an entire website created in order to bash myself and a few other Mods. That person certainly was dedicated. We put up with a whole heaping pile of crap, sometimes daily. But we're still here, to do the job we agreed to do.

But when some people decide that things don't fit into their "version" of what is right and wrong here, and they try to assert themselves in their postings here; we will take action. It isn't always "fair" or "popular", but it is what's needed to maintain the best atmosphere we can possibly have here...with so many diverse opinions and experiences.

Take Pincho, for example. If, after he returns next month, he decides to come back and participate in the community again...without the need to lash out; he will be welcomed back. If, however, he decides he needs to get in a few more jabs at myself or another Mod here; he'll be all done for quite some time.

We try to do the best we can here; but we certainly don't appreciate it when our actions are questioned at every turn.

-Keith

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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 07:05
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I see now, it makes sense.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 09:38 Edited at: 13th Jul 2013 10:28
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Quote: "Say's who? Your company? If your in breach of anything that good standing will soon vaporize. If you reckon your not doing anything wrong and cant be touched then fine...but if you think it's because you got friends in the right places your deluded. Don't blame me for thinking this way but you came across like that. Next customer you give that attitude to may just prove you very wrong.
Strikes me you got a lot of disgruntled customers. Why is that? Because you got the 'cant touch me' attitude or because you handle things so well and your compnay's record is so shiny, they never make mistakes, or is because mostly idiots buy your product?"


I'll clarify, when I say good standing, I mean we have a good standing with the law and that's because company policy isn't breaking the law, not we have friends in high places. I work with in warranty repair, it is normal to find some disgruntled people and I've only mentioned the disgruntled customers in context of this thread, but not mentioned the numerous happy customers, but generally people phone us when there's a problem. We find a lot people happy with the service as well.

Also a lot of people don't read their manual or their warranties, this is one place where conflict calls happen. People think because there's a problem that they should get a replacement when they've got a repair warranty. People will wrongly quote the sale of goods act (which applies to the retailer not manufacturer) and it's mainly where people think the law will get involved. Some customer complaints I feel are justified and of course we have a means of dealing with those.

In customer service I get a lot of high scores and customers generally rate me quite high (my survey scores are usually quite good). However, people don't like it when something goes wrong and that's why they call us, a number of people will be disgruntled and when things aren't going the way they had hoped (for example, delay in repair) then it annoys them more, but sometimes it can't be helped. My job requires customer empathy and doing what I can to help, but we can't always give people what they want because of the terms of their warranty. If people want a premium warranty, they pay for it. However, disgruntled people will try different avenues to get what they want and sometimes a part of my job is to say to those people 'no'. I don't like it, I hate the conflict too, but manufacturers warranties aren't expensive premium services. Some people expect free service when their product is out of warranty, even by a few years. We'll troubleshoot for free and do what we can to help over the phone and we don't stop caring when they're out warranty, but repairs aren't free, which isn't unreasonable because companies need to protect their own expenses, hence they tend not to give free lifetime warranties. Not everybody accepts that.


Quote: "So why make statement on something you know nothing about? I'll tell you since I was around.
Saying your gonna blow up the school was as likely to get you expelled then as now and it had nothing to do with paranoia, its because you are an immature idiot that really should be in a special school where they can cater to your special needs.

Not all laws or actions concerning the stupid are related to 'terrorism'.

The idea that everything was invented today and all things revolve around them is the way it is with youth, the world as it is, was shaped long before most of you were born and not all related to events that happened in your lifetime.
Don't get me entirely wrong as abuse of power and adults being idiots is just as prevalent and some have paid the price many times for their own arrogant beliefs that they were untouchable and could say what they liked when they liked. "


I made a statement on what I've been given the impression of and things I have been told. I accept they could be entirely wrong, hence I said I was only given the impression, a statement to open somebody to either say "you've been given the wrong impression" or somebody to say "you're spot on". I'm not outright claiming this way the case. Unfortunately my knowledge on the topic extends to what I have been told.

I can certainly understand why a person saying "I'm going to bomb a school" would raise alarm and of course if it's a kid in school, I think they should certainly be disciplined so they understand the weight of what they're saying, but I don't think simply expelling the kid does any good what-so-ever. Perhaps temporary suspension whilst he's recommended to a psychiatrist? Or if it's found he was really making jokes, then punish him, address the issue straight at hand, expelling a person should be a last resort. At least it was at my school.

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Quik
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 10:17 Edited at: 13th Jul 2013 10:18
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Quote: "Why must we challenge everything? It doesn't matter, it's not allowed; which is why I gave him a warning, not post moderation or a ban. It can't get any plainer."


Agreed and, well done.


Seems I missed a lot of the discussion during my sleep..

ehh - School, I personally know for a fact that when I leave my kids in school, the teachers do have responsibilities - to handle stuff. Like bullying, and whatnot. Why not also handle this one?

ehh,
Quote: "They didn't believe it, they dont need to believe it. He proved himself a moron by saying it...thats enough. Schools are meant to teach not provide care for the mentally retarded."


Well ehh, yes they are? Although yes, there's certain schools for that - but if you have a mentally retarded kid in the school, well... What kind of teacher would just simply say "NOPE, NOT GONNA DO IT"?

having just gone through a hellish high school (gymnasium in sweden, i really do not know what the equalent for you guys is :/ well.. after 9th grade it is anyway, 3 years) and somewhat hellish 8-9th grade, with REALLY bad educational experiences.. well - school is not a touchy subject, but more or a subject I am very enthusiastic about.


edit: seems I missed the last page too...



Whose eyes are those eyes?
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 13:30 Edited at: 13th Jul 2013 13:37
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Edit : deleted post since I had forgotten to check the next page.

Edit2 : Not sure why I deleted original content - it still seems relevant somehow, but hardly worth rewriting except to say I agree with KeithC's actions here.
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TheComet
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 14:47
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Sorry for getting back at this.

As KeithC explained numerous times, the law in Texas clearly states that threats in written form are punishable, hence why this 19 year old kid was locked up for 6 months.

But there's something wrong here. You can't just lock someone up without evaluating the situation. In the news articles is stated that there were no trials. You can't do that, can you?

The kid should have been psychologically evaluated by a professional. They would have quickly found that the kid is (hopefully) in normal psychological condition, and was indeed being sarcastic, with no intention of actually committing the crime.

This story is wrong from back to front.

TheComet


le thread: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=198677&b=8
le blog: http://blankflankstudios.tumblr.com/
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KeithC
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 15:29
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People are always locked up (or set up on bail), before a trial happens. As I said; there's nowhere that I know of, where you can commit a crime and go straight to the courthouse for a "speedy" trial. It's just not possible. Unless you want a "Judge Dread" situation, and have your "trial" on the spot.

-Keith

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xplosys
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 15:47
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Quote: "You can't just lock someone up without evaluating the situation."


This is a lot of the confusion in this thread, though I don't think confusion is quite the right term. People have a problem separating the law from their feelings of fairness, and in many cases it's with the bare minimal information. I see a lot of "You can't do that!" when in reality, the proof is right in front of you. A lot of the problem is the very limited amount of information given to make any kind of determination on.

Some of you may be familiar with the Zimmerman case/trial that's currently going on in the US. He shot and killed a teen named Travon. The trial is ongoing so I won't try to make any predictions, but this guy was pronounced guilty by the press, the community, and even the White House/President seemed to be leaning in that direction. Upon hearing the news report, my father pronounced him guilty. From a news report he made that determination. Only now that the trial is in the news are we seeing how very one-sided and condemning those news reports were.

The earlier post concerning a student who supposedly said he would blow up the school and was expelled was a trap. How can one possibly make any kind of intelligent decision based on one persons he said/she said post? Of course we do anyway... can't help it, but we should probably not insist we're right.

I am the underground.
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Libervurto
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 17:29 Edited at: 13th Jul 2013 17:31
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Quote: "I know we're discussing free speech and all; but I've removed your "Mod Badge" avatar. Don't use it again, this is your warning."

Sorry it was a joke in a another thread and I forgot to change it back.

Quote: "You are extremely hard going because you try to change your meaning in retrospect when challenged and clutch at straws in your attempt to twist what I say ....feel free to correct me on this...as I know you will. "

I'll admit I have been twisting things a bit, but I also don't want to come off as too literal. Maybe my comments have been too ambiguous and open to interpretation.

Quote: "Some of you may be familiar with the Zimmerman case/trial that's currently going on in the US. He shot and killed a teen named Travon. The trial is ongoing so I won't try to make any predictions, but this guy was pronounced guilty by the press, the community, and even the White House/President seemed to be leaning in that direction. Upon hearing the news report, my father pronounced him guilty. From a news report he made that determination. Only now that the trial is in the news are we seeing how very one-sided and condemning those news reports were. "

You're right, and it's quite worrying. From what I've heard it seems like he took it upon himself to confront Martin even when advised not to, so I have to say I'm coming down on the guilty side of the fence too, but I don't expect (or want) my opinion to hold any weight.

Quote: "The earlier post concerning a student who supposedly said he would blow up the school and was expelled was a trap. How can one possibly make any kind of intelligent decision based on one persons he said/she said post? Of course we do anyway... can't help it, but we should probably not insist we're right."

People like to speculate but I suppose it can be dangerous when a rumour gets momentum. So, yeah I fell for your trap and used it to support my agenda without paying much attention to the actual case, "See! This is just another example of x!"
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xplosys
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 18:18
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Quote: "From what I've heard it seems like he took it upon himself to confront Martin even when advised not to, so I have to say I'm coming down on the guilty side of the fence too"


Interesting you should say that. That was my fathers argument too. The police told him to walk away, so he's guilty of murder! I would agree that he's guilty of "not listening to the police". What he was charged with and being tried for is killing Travon. Most likely had he walked away when told to, we would not be having this conversation, but that's an entirely different matter. It's just interesting how we're "swayed" to think in these situations.

I am the underground.
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KeithC
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 19:50
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Quote: "Sorry it was a joke in a another thread and I forgot to change it back."

Yeah; I saw that thread after I posted. Not a big deal then. But you understand my point.

As far as the "police" telling him to walk away; that is untrue. It was the 911 dispatcher (who is not law enforcement) that told him this. I've heard this misconception many times now. They can advice, but not give orders. This is how dangerous the news media can be; he's been basically put on trial before even entering a courtroom. Then they refused to allow current images of Mr. Martin (with his tattoos and metal grill on his teeth, etc.); they wanted the older images of a squeaky clean teen. Sure; no bias there.

The point is, none of us were there, and there is no video evidence of what went down. What I will be interested in, is how things will go down if there's a not-guilty verdict. The jury is comprised of 5 white and 1 black/hispanic...all females.

One of the things that bothers me a bit; is, from my understanding, he could have walked away...or just followed him and let the cops know his location when they got there. To me, carrying a concealed firearm is for the protection of yourself and your family....not to go looking for trouble. But that is a discussion for another time and place, and definitely not for these boards.

-Keith

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Ortu
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 20:21 Edited at: 13th Jul 2013 22:28
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I think he did escalate the situation which lead to violence that may not otherwise have happened, but once again I think it comes down to a question of intent. did he escalate because he was looking for a fight, or because he might racist or because he felt it was necessary in order to protect his community? as outsiders to both the events and the trial I don't think any of us have enough accurate knowledge to make an informed decision on the matter. with all the media coverage prior to the trial i dont think it is truly possible t get a fair nd unbiased jury. I'm interested in the verdict, but I don't think I will be upset either way as I simply don't know enough to make a judgment of my own.


now as for the school case, 5 or 6 months waiting for trial is more than not unusual, it is commonplace and is often extended/delayed at the request of the defense to give more time to build their case. look at mj hassan for instance, those events were a couple of years ago and it is just barely at trial now.


a friend is a corrections officer at a local sheriff dept and most DWI cases don't go to trial until 12 to 18 months later even when pleading guilty or no contest could be more if they fight the charge and this is here in Austin Texas which is considerably smaller with less cases to try than San Antonio. you don't get special expedited treatment for getting news coverage, everyone has to wait in line behind all other cases already pending for court.


the difference is most arrests usually post a reasonable bail and go back home until trial. that's the stick point here for me, if they thought he was a credible threat he should go to a psyc ward for evaluation and care, if not then bail should have been set to a reasonable amount, let him post it and go home. let the jury decide guilt and required jail time if any.


edit sorry the keyboard on this tablet is terrible hope that's not to garbled.

edit again to clean things up a bit

Shazam!
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Libervurto
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 22:04
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Quote: "The police told him to walk away, so he's guilty of murder!"

I think of it more as, if someone is going to needlessly put themselves in a bad situation despite being advised to stay away they've already shown they can make bad decisions. Of course that's me extrapolating like crazy, but who was it that said, "The best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour."

Quote: "It's just interesting how we're "swayed" to think in these situations."

We are dumb apes, if we don't have all the information (or even if we do) we make it up because we have a need to explain things.
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rolfy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 22:19 Edited at: 13th Jul 2013 22:29
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Meh! ya go for a sleep and when ya come back they is all talking rationally, this thread is no fun anymore.

My wee cat just died gonna take her out and bury her in the back yard
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Benjamin
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 22:29
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Quote: "We are dumb apes"


Maybe you are descended from a dirty animal, but I'm not! Oh wait, science...

"Sideboobs are awesome. Getting punched in the face is not." - Jerico2Day on violence and nudity
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Libervurto
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 23:16
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Quote: "Meh! ya go for a sleep and when ya come back they is all talking rationally, this thread is no fun anymore."

Hey, being irrational is tough work!

Quote: "My wee cat just died gonna take her out and bury her in the back yard"

That sucks. Was she old?
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Wolf
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Posted: 13th Jul 2013 23:56
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Quote: ""We are dumb apes""


That would be "homo imbecilis" then?

http://www.serygalacaffeine.com
Without struggle,no progress and no result.Every breaking of habit produces a change in the machine.
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rolfy
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 03:24 Edited at: 14th Jul 2013 03:26
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Quote: "Was she old?"

Tinker 18yrs, last one to go was Sprout 23yrs, had a darn good innings really

Still got two crazy ginger lads 5-8yrs Jasper n' Jimmy
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xplosys
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 03:53
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So... you live in a cat house?

I am the underground.
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Ortu
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 04:01
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the real question is: are you looking forward to your future as a crazy old cat lady? I know my brother is, he has six of the little beasts.

Shazam!
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rolfy
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 04:24 Edited at: 14th Jul 2013 05:50
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Heck, the wife says I am already there
I love the little beggars and more importantly cats seem to like me, the wife say's she never seen cats act the way they do around me, don't know if I like them cos they like me or other way around....maybe I just smell right

I am currently educating them on how to stay safe on the internet....and also how to avoid arrest...Jasper is proving difficult and I suspect I will have to raise the bail money some day.
Quote: "
So... you live in a cat house?"
Something I prayed for as a young lad....God has a sense of humour
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 07:14
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Quote: "Tinker 18yrs, last one to go was Sprout 23yrs, had a darn good innings really"


Sorry to hear she's gone my man. Losing a cat can be like a loss in the family, particularly if they've been with you for so long. But it's a long life. One of my cats is also 18 years old, she's asthmatic, but still healthy.

As for crazy cat house, this is probably something we share in common. Cats > People.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 07:25
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Oh, I didn't see this when I last posted:

Quote: "My wee cat just died gonna take her out and bury her in the back yard"


Sorry to hear that. We hand-reared 6 kittens and have lost 3 of them over the years, due to various reasons. The saddest was the more recent loss a couple of years ago. It hurts to lose a real character like that, but he'd (presumably) had a stroke and his back legs didn't work so well anymore, and I'm sure he was uncomfortable all the time. Despite everything he was always very happy, and very affectionate. But I think he'd had enough, and crawled away to die somewhere. I miss him a lot even now.

Oh the animals we've lost...

"Sideboobs are awesome. Getting punched in the face is not." - Jerico2Day on violence and nudity
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Libervurto
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 07:28
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I've become really fascinated by animal behaviour recently. I was on the way back from a night out, it was light already and I saw a field of cows so, still being a bit pissed, I thought I would make "first contact". They were very suspicious of me at first but then one of the younger ones came over and let me pet her, then more youngsters came and finally a few of the elders. It reminded me of this
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 14:00
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Quote: "still being a bit pissed, I thought I would make "first contact". "


Should we be worried about this revelation?
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The Zoq2
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 14:35
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Quote: "Cats > People"


I don't know if that is true, the average cat is smaller than the average human. That probably also makes it hard going thru doorways in those "crazy cat houses"
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 15:15 Edited at: 14th Jul 2013 15:15
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This thread has suddenly taken an upward turn.

Talking of cat houses here are our spoilt cats enjoying a sunny morning in our summer hut:

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MrValentine
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Posted: 14th Jul 2013 15:25 Edited at: 14th Jul 2013 15:26
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Upward? no I would say Positive Downward [Looks down at cat lol]

EDIT

Adding to that, my cat eats like a king... Royal Jelly and everything... cats really are picky lol...

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