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AppGameKit Classic Chat / [LOCKED] some AGK Editor updates would be nice...

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IronGiant
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 16:59
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Ok, being one of the few people that paid over 100 dollars for my copy of AppGameKit, and having not cashed in all my 2000 points, which seemed to have disappeared. No biggie.

I was wonder, when and if, we people, the faithful, that did not go for the 50 bucks donation fee, were going to see any code folding to the editor anytime soon.

Every other editor I own. Purebasic. IDEal for Blitz3D, RJ TextED for Javascript and HTML, Flashdevelop, all have code folding.

AGK's editor is the only one I have that has no code folding and I was just wonder when and if this was coming, or am I going to have to fork over more cash to get it in the next AppGameKit 2?.

Oh and I would have bought into AppGameKit 2 for 50 bucks, but I had just bought Game Maker studio just before your offer and that made me cash poor for a few monthes. sorry....

and now my AppGameKit projects are getting so large they almost demand code folding.

So an answer one way or the other would be most appreciated.

Thank you for your time and AGK.

It's Bird! , It's Plane!, No its a rocket powered Squirrel holding some acorns and a smile!
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 17:08
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IronGiant, any of the things mentioned in the Kickstarter campaign will come with V2 (and somewhere, I think, there was a plan showing the timing).

Folding code (and the debugger) are part of the second stretch goal.

Quote: "Oh and I would have bought into AppGameKit 2 for 50 bucks"

You can't buy it right now because it doesn't exist yet.

Are you keeping all of your code in one file?

When I was working on my WIP in Tier 1 (it was converted to Tier 2 a while ago), I had about 15 different .agc files to break up functionality and such. You can include all of them at the start (or end or anywhere in between) of your main.agc file.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
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baxslash
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 17:15
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Simple answer is no. It is highly unlikely to be part of V1 in the near future. Perhaps when V2 has it a new version of the editor might be updated to include it for V1 but there's no promise of it anywhere that I've seen.

Updates to the editor have always been planned but never promised, nor has code folding ever been promised in any of the promotional material for V1.

Not an official answer but a likely one, sorry.

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
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IronGiant
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 17:31
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when i said, Buy Into! I meant, as in donate.

Should have made myself more clear.

And yes, code folding was mentioned back when AppGameKit first came to market in the forums.

And yes I like to keep most of my code together. it's just the way I roll.

Mainly being, because I change things as I go and create better ways of doing animations, creating tiles, or lets say, a new way of laying out icons for clicking.

But yes, I have already, weeks ago,started to break my code up into other files, but it is a pain. Code folding is the main thing I first look for in a language. AppGameKit got by this check list item, because it allowed me to develop, for a cheap price, for Cell Phones, 111 dollars I do believe at the time I purchased it.

Would not be such a bad situation if AppGameKit could have a third party development of an IDE as Monkey has with Jungle IDE.

But guess I'll just have to wait and see what AppGameKit 2 offers that I may want.

Still think its a big mistake not to have code folding. maybe back in the late 90s this was ok, but not in todays programming world where even the simplest of language offer it. even the free ones!

It's Bird! , It's Plane!, No its a rocket powered Squirrel holding some acorns and a smile!
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Naphier
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 17:42
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A few of us couldn't wait for TGC to update the editor and decided to mod Sublime Text to our purposes.
It is an awesome editor and with a little tinkering you can likely make it do even more than we have at this point (if you do, please share so we can all benefit).
Check out this thread:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=206696&b=48

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Markus
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 18:01
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agk useing the code::blocks editor, it can code folding but it was made
for c.
for the basic language it needs some changes.
the same for the function list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codeblocks
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IronGiant
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 18:30 Edited at: 18th Sep 2013 18:32
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Thanks for the link Nap, will definitely check that out when I get done working out.

As Doc Savage once said, "Ouch, damn it Monk!!, you are standing on my toes!".

Oh and "working the body and the mind makes one a whole person"

Would be nice to just fold it, and forget it!

But still,be even nicer if it was a built in feature of future AppGameKit 1 updates, hint hint!

Point being,

I think the chase for the 3D Featured Hare down the Rabbit Hole has left AGK's Editor stuck at the little door Alice could not get thru, time to swallow the right pill!

It's Bird! , It's Plane!, No its a rocket powered Squirrel holding some acorns and a smile!
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Naphier
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 18:38
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mmmm pills

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Van B
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 18:58
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I'm jonesing for a function and subroutine list, that's what I miss most, even if you use multiple code files it's still a drain to have to go hunting.

I am the one who knocks...
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Naphier
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 19:02
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I agree... Sublime Text has a function list lookup for AppGameKit functions, but any user defined functions don't appear... also would love to have it in tree list with the project files... t'would be a beautiful thing.

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AgentSam
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Posted: 18th Sep 2013 20:53 Edited at: 18th Sep 2013 20:54
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ABOUT THE IDE

The TIER 1 IDE is not required for TIER 1 development.

The TIER 1 IDE is completely separate from the TIER 1 compiler (thankfully!).

As a result, the TIER 1 IDE can easily be replaced with another editor.

Most editors can be customized via macros, plugins or "user-tools" to invoke the TIER 1 compiler directly from the editor, just like the AppGameKit TIER 1 IDE does.

THE TIER 1 IDE IS ACTUALLY OPEN-SOURCE ALREADY

The AppGameKit TIER 1 IDE is an open-source editor - anyone can modify it or write plugins for it using C++. (This just isn't actively promoted by TGC for some bizarre reason!)

I propose, that TGC makes the TIER 1 IDE source-code available without a transmission fee (which they have implied in an earlier reply) - so that the community may begin work on IDE enhancements themselves.

However, TGC's long term goals for the TIER 1 debugger should also be disclosed; because it may affect the choice of TIER 1 IDE in AppGameKit V2, and we don't want to work on editor enhancements for AppGameKit V1, if the IDE changes in V2 because of debugger integration (to Eclipse for example, which already has a strong debugger framework).

WHAT ELSE...

TGC has their hands full with far more important work: AppGameKit engine bug fixes, a near-total TIER 1 compiler rewrite, and one-click TIER 1 APK deployment.

So, in my view, the "TIER 1 IDE" is of minor concern compared to enhancements and fixes for the "TIER 1 COMPILER".

Cheers,
AgentSam
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IronGiant
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 19:52
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Sorry Samual, But I'll have to disagree on the importance of Code Folding and Function/Procedure lists to click on, in an Editor.

Not trying to take anything away from AGK. it's Game Making abilities are second to none in my opinion!, when it comes to making Portable games it rules. Its graphic routines are amazing, and I have fun just putting sprites up, and seeing what I can do with them.

But then comes coding a full game, or in my case right now, a Placement editor for walls and objects for a physics game I'm writing in AGK.

On Purebasic's editor, which I use a lot for PC programming, ((getting into Darkbasic Pro also, pretty cool) but anyways,enough butt kissing)

it is because, even though its only for the PC and Mac. it's Editor is unmatched in it's help files, both the Chm files, and the info bar at the bottom,

that when the cursor is over a command, it gives you full Command Name, along with all the variable types it uses.,

it's code folding, it's correction detections and more.

And when I go back to coding in AppGameKit, I feel like I've stepped back to my old Blitzbasic days, No folding there either. thank god for IDEal's IDE for Blitzbasic, or I would not have lasted long in Blitz.

And I know, AppGameKit 2 will have coding folding, and hopefully a function list on the side to click on.

But I still want, and would like coding folding on AppGameKit 1. and yes, I could , with the right research , write a Third Party IDE I suppose, for AppGameKit if I had access to all its hooks and internal data for debugging. but I'm not a systems programmer, or an APPs programmer, I write games.

And I'm not asking this because I hate AppGameKit, just the opposite, I love this language, especially tier 1, it made basic cool again, and that's hard to do in this OOP World.

But I need code folding, as I stated, its how i roll my own!

Thanks anyways , still a great language!, Game Creators!,

and trust me, lack of code folding will not stop me from ever using AppGameKit, it's just that fun to play with! and I have never regretted buying it!.

just be a hell of a lot more fun with it!

Thanks all,

and as Stan Lee would say, Nuff said!

It's Bird! , It's Plane!, No its a rocket powered Squirrel holding some acorns and a smile!
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AgentSam
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 21:43 Edited at: 19th Sep 2013 21:43
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Quote: "I'll have to disagree on the importance of Code Folding and Function/Procedure lists"


I love code-folding and that's one of the reasons why I'm not using the AppGameKit TIER 1 IDE.

If you're willing to give up using the AppGameKit TIER 1 IDE, then you can have code-folding RIGHT NOW.

The following editors were already suggested as very capable replacements for the built-in TIER 1 IDE:
- EditPlus
- Sublime Text

The above editors already have support for code-folding and function-lists for the AppGameKit TIER 1 basic dialect -- with minor customizations to the default editor configurations. These editors already support a huge variety of other languages also! And, in addition to the ones listed above, there are many other editors you could use for TIER 1 development - so you can pretty much just pick and choose.

Quote: "But I still want, and would like coding folding on AppGameKit 1"


If you want code-folding and function lists in the AppGameKit TIER 1 IDE, then please support my efforts to pressure TGC into making their modifications (source code) to the Code::Blocks IDE freely available. (If you don't know what Code::Blocks is, please do some research, or follow the links in my previous message.)

Quote: "Thanks for the link Nap, will definitely check that out when I get done working out. "


I hope, that by the time you're reading my reply, you've already checked out "Sublime Text" and are happily using code-folding like the rest of us.

Cheers,
AgentSam
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 19th Sep 2013 22:32
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Strange, but true: in 35 years of programming I have never used or wanted code-folding. I always assume the problem will lie in the folded bits!

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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AgentSam
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 09:21 Edited at: 20th Sep 2013 09:31
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Quote: "I have never used or wanted code-folding"


Well, I coded around 25 years without code-folding. The lack of code-folding was no big deal back then.

Now I've used code-folding in many environments for several years. It's a coding "tool" you can choose to use, or not use. Completely up to what one feels comfortable with.

Personally, I am able to save valuable screen real estate using code-folding. That is my primary reason for using it. (I have a three monitor multi-screen setup, so it's not like I don't have a lot of screen real estate already - yet I still find myself graving for more, and would never-ever-ever go back to using just one screen.)

However, not all code-folding is created equal.
Some editors require you to define the folded regions explicitly, via comments or directives (very old-school and propably obsolete by now).
Some will do code-folding purely by looking at indentation levels, while some only do code-folding on bracketed sections.

Quote: "I always assume the problem will lie in the folded bits!"


Problem? *smile* Obviously you're supposed to write bug-free code.

Cheers,
AgentSam
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baxslash
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 11:27
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Quote: "If you want code-folding and function lists in the AppGameKit TIER 1 IDE, then please support my efforts to pressure TGC into making their modifications (source code) to the Code::Blocks IDE freely available. (If you don't know what Code::Blocks is, please do some research, or follow the links in my previous message.)"

I've asked Rick if there's any chance of this. It would save TGC time and resources in my opinion.

DBPro has a number of IDE's built by the community, it would be great if AppGameKit got the same attention from our more learned users. Making the IDE open source would make this a lot easier.

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
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Van B
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 12:40
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I also like PureBasic, strangely that's the only IDE where I actively fold my code - it just seems to make sense in PB, to fold a function when it's all working. I do tend to have a stricter format when using PB, as it's mostly bespoke applications, better to be as neat as possible as there will be countless additions and changes over time. Sometimes my PB code looks so pretty, it just makes me wish all my code was like that.

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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 20:19
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I've uploaded the AppGameKit IDE source to http://files.thegamecreators.com/agk/AGK_IDE.zip which is licensed under GPL. It uses the CodeBlocks IDE to compile it and you will need to download and compile the WxWidgets 2.8 library from here.

The main project file is in src/CodeBlocks.cbp but I haven't spent a lot of time in this code so I can't help people out with it.

The focus with AppGameKit v2 will be on the compiler and creating a debugging interface so that anyone can create an IDE to work with it. I'm less sure what will happen with the IDE in version 2, whether we will press on with CodeBlocks or source an alternative IDE from some third party. It will become clearer when I know what form the debugger will take.
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Naphier
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 21:16
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Cool. Good to know!

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IronGiant
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 21:19 Edited at: 20th Sep 2013 21:24
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Thanks Paul, Not a big Applications person, but nice to have the code out there for those that are.

Maybe someone will come up with a nice editor, that could be included with later AppGameKit releases. Or Someone could be paid to make a good editor for AppGameKit as the people that develop the Flashdevelop IDE did.

And I too programmed for years and I mean years without code folding, from Atari Basic , Assembler Editor cart, Action , and Mac65 for the Atari 8 bit, to Amos on the Amiga, Stos for my ST, GFA basic ST/PC, Blitzbasic PC, Euphoria PC ect.

But these days my projects are much larger, and if I can, I like to fold up what I think works, and get on with my other code. we all know finished Functions have no bugs, wink wink.

And I also feel this would be a large selling point for AppGameKit, some programmers shy away from languages because the Editors do not offer them the tools of today. and Code folding and function lists have become the norm.

But I feel AppGameKit creators pains, I'm no Editor Maker myself, so I understand this is no easy undertaking.

Anyways, thanks for the code again , will have a look, who knows, maybe I'll become an Applications developer after all lol

later guys. and Keep Codin' !

It's Bird! , It's Plane!, No its a rocket powered Squirrel holding some acorns and a smile!
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Naphier
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Posted: 20th Sep 2013 21:25
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If you haven't yet, then really try out Sublime text with the mods that have been made by AppGameKit users... It is spectacular. Of course no fancy debugging, but I'm not too partial to that anyway as I like lots of control over my debug logs.

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AgentSam
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Posted: 21st Sep 2013 19:15
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Quote: "I've uploaded the AppGameKit IDE source to http://files.thegamecreators.com/agk/AGK_IDE.zip which is licensed under GPL. "


Thanks Paul. I'll give it a stab and see if it compiles first.
(I'll setup a virtual machine just for this project.)

Quote: "It uses the CodeBlocks IDE to compile it and you will need to download and compile the WxWidgets 2.8 library from here."


I grabbed WxWidgets 2.8.12. My first step is to compile that into the monolithic DLL (single DLL file), as per the build instructions.

Quote: "... I haven't spent a lot of time in this code so I can't help people out with it."


That's all right. I'll just run a diff on it, see what changes you've made and work from there.

But, I'd like to build it as close to the official TGC way as possible, so I have to ask - which of the supported compilers did you use to compile CodeBlocks?

Quote: "The focus with AppGameKit v2 will be on the compiler and creating a debugging interface so that anyone can create an IDE to work with it. "


That's very good news!

Quote: "I'm less sure what will happen with the IDE in version 2, whether we will press on with CodeBlocks or source an alternative IDE from some third party. It will become clearer when I know what form the debugger will take. "


Exactly as I suspected. OK. Thanks.

Cheers,
AgentSam
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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 21st Sep 2013 21:53
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Quote: "which of the supported compilers did you use to compile CodeBlocks"


GNU GCC Compiler
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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2013 16:58
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hum... ive been around before the 90's and I still don't know what code folding is? lol!

I don't have a problem working with agk v1s editor and think its perfectly fine.

Personally id rather see paul devote his time on agk v2 instead of fixing and adding things to v1. I too paid over 100$ for agk when it first launched and because I released 2 apps on blackberry with it... I have made over 500$ so it paid for itself.

Like I said...id rather the tgc team devote their time on v2 instead of v1 as its going to have what everybody wants!

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AgentSam
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2013 19:07 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2013 19:13
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We don't need to continue this thread with discussion of if TGC should devote their time on V2 instead of V1.

The original post was about getting code-folding support for the TIER 1 IDE, and we now have the source code, with which we can build enhanced IDE versions.

Although I'm not personally a big fan of the Code::Blocks IDE, I'm taking a stab at enhancing it as a way of giving back to the community.

And I'm really happy that TGC has made it public - it could be considered the FIRST open-source component of AppGameKit (if we don't count the TIER 2 templates, the players, and the interpreter. So, I guess the release of the IDE source code was a historical event.)

Realize, that the V2 development branch is basically just V1 with additional funding for continued development. (It's really more a shift in product management, than in product design.)

Still, there's a lot to say about AppGameKit V1 and V2, which cannot be summarized briefly, so yea - if you point me to a thread that's better suited to that discussion I'll join you there. =)

Note, I'm not a forum moderator, I can't tell you what to do. I'm just expressing a desire to have this thread focus more on the IDE.

When I have a new enhanced version of the IDE, I'll create a new thread for it.

Cheers,
AgentSam
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baxslash
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2013 11:22
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Agreed, this thread has been answered and is therefore locked.

You can never have too much sausage
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