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AppGameKit Classic Chat / AGK 2 Official Development Blog

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 10:10 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2015 10:11
I stopped giving hard and fast dates for updates long ago. Asked recently when our V5 software would be available I said "Possibly Q3 - almost certainly Q4." I used to say "April" and then the unexpected happened, and on May 1st they were all moaning.

But I think bug fixes should be issued as soon as possible. We try to fix verifiable, reproducible bugs within 24-48 hours. If a work-around is available we will notify the clients immediately. Our software is used widely in universities, colleges and schools for examinations, so it's vital to solve things ASAP.

<<It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.>> Dijkstra
Polaraul
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 10:32
At the end of the day, I just don't believe that AGK2 gets enough support from TGC. It just doesn't feel like it is a product going anywhere fast. Perhaps if this was TGC's only product, things would be different, but that is not the case.

As it stands today, AGK2 doesn't feel current. There are free engines, and even engines maintained by just one person, that seem to be progressing faster.

The sad thing is, that if TGC threw their full weight behind AGK2, it would be such a great development tool. At present though, there are just so many areas where AGK2 is lacking.

JohnStabler
AGK Bronze Backer
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 10:39
I agree with JimHawkins.

Developing such a dynamic product, with so many dependencies on third-party products, is tough. Add to that the fact you can't make 100% of people happy 100% of the time and you get an ungrateful user base.

I think people should stop with the hyperbole and accusing TGC of lying or ripping off. They're doing their best and have been releasing regular updates. Just because they haven't prioritised whatever stretch goal was important to you it doesn't mean they're not going to deliver.

The only thing I'd like to ask TGC for is a bit more of an estimate about upcoming updates. If release dates need to slide then that's okay as long as we're informed ahead of time. But right now I have a project that's on hold and I have no idea if it'll be working for a proposed launch date in July.
Beo6
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 11:38
Since I was one of the people who complained when AGKv2 seemed to be completely on hold and I think they worked on the driving test app or something like that.
I think they really improved in communication. Sure it can always be better. And as I suggested and I think was even said that a better website/blog for agk would come ( like the fps creator reloaded page and blog [is it still called like that or now GameGuru?] ) I am just looking forward to the 3d physics integration now. The debugger looks nice and probably needed for the basic language.
JimHawkins
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 12:54 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2015 12:55
One of the problems with Kickstarter is that it demands that you provide delivery dates. This encourages an optimistic attitude on the part of developers. All my experience tells me to think of a realistic time and then at least double it.

There's a big distinction between the core AppGameKit libraries and the Basic compiler and debugger. Ideally, Paul would be working to add advanced functionality, and another programmer would be working on Basic or other language interfaces. If Paul had not had to mess about with the compiler you might well have had 3D physics by now.

I notice that nobody commented on my suggestion in Development Requests to have Basic capable of outputting C++ source as well as bytecode! This would provide an extension mechanism which experienced programmers could use to add the latest social networks etc. Working code could then be adopted by Paul, and things could advance on many fronts at the same time. The necessary interfaces to Basic could then be fairly swiftly bound into the language.

It's not intrinsically difficult to do this. One of the great moans has been the lack of a plug-in facility. This approach provides it. It makes a "component" model possible. I regularly license Delphi components to perform specific tasks, for example Word processing, from experts in that area. I also use free components. What all these things do is to extend the functionality of the system. AppGameKit cries out for this, but the "sealed box" nature of the Basic compiler makes it impossible. Why not open the box?

Add to Basic: #includeC (<filename>
Example: #includeC "NeuralNetworkFaceRecognition.h"

Later:

#include Cstring "Wombat::NNRecognise(<filename>.jpg")

<<It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.>> Dijkstra
SpecTre
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 14:12
@Jim

I think you are talking a lot of sense here. I am not a good enough programmer to add features like this but there are many many on here that are especially when you look at the great features DBPro add ons brought.

Great idea which would probably solve a lot of problems and make AppGameKit more current allowing it to catch up with the competion and take some of the preasure off the TGC team.

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
JimHawkins
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 14:30
It's (relatively) easy to have a compiler back-end emit a source file rather than object code. For some years I supported the XDS Modula-2 compiler from some brilliant programmers in Siberia who programmed the Soyus system. That produced beautiful C code, so it could be compiled on just about anything.

I'm trying to think out-of-the-box here to break the log-jam and make AppGameKit the "must have" system.

<<It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.>> Dijkstra
BatVink
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2015 20:24
Quote: "All my experience tells me to think of a realistic time and then at least double it"


The most accurate method I have found is the Fibonacci series (try it!)...

If you estimate 2 days, promise 3
13 days, promise 21,

and so on.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
Clonkex
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Posted: 27th Mar 2015 01:37
Debugger is looking AWESOME! The most exciting feature for me (other than breakpoints and step-through) is the ability to print directly to a debug log! That's something I love about Unity. I can just say Print(anything) and it prints it. And now AppGameKit has it!

One thing: Make sure the command to print to the debug window is short and easy to type. It's something we'll be typing a lot and for debugging we don't want to be typing mile-long commands every time

Greenwich
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Posted: 29th Mar 2015 18:50 Edited at: 29th Mar 2015 18:51
Quote: "Make sure the command to print to the debug window is short and easy to type."


Agreed. In fact, the command to print to the debug window should just be Print().

That's all Print was/is useful for anyway.

It's mean time. *averages*
xGEKKOx
AGK Master
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Posted: 30th Mar 2015 07:38
Hi Paul, i will update you on the new iWatch, AppleTV in June new Apple Store to take you updated if we need some features.

I'm already working with the :
PUSH Notification
Widget
iWatch

and i will give a look if a new Xcode Beta will be available soon.

I will also do a tutorial to use those things in XCode with AppGameKit Tier 2.

Ah, i think from September, if iPhone 6C will be launched the min version of iOS will be 7.1
So i will give you all the things that will change.

Go TGC GO!!!!

noname34
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Posted: 8th Apr 2015 17:03 Edited at: 8th Apr 2015 22:44
<MOD EDIT> Do not triple-post across different threads
BatVink
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Posted: 8th Apr 2015 22:45
When I wrote:

Quote: "<MOD EDIT> Do not triple-post across different threads"


This was not a prompt for you to reinstate your original message. Do not keep cross-posting the same message.

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
TutCity is being rebuilt
noname34
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Posted: 9th Apr 2015 02:15
Sorry me. I will not make that mistake again.
Naphier
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Posted: 13th Apr 2015 22:44
Just an FYI:
Chartboost has released a new SDK which fixes a minor issue with AGK's implementation. The issue is that if you hit the back key more than once while the ad is displayed it would prevent future ads from showing. If you're building AppGameKit via Eclipse then you can just download and replcae the existing chartboost.jar in the project. Otherwise AppGameKit developers should fix their own implementation.

noname34
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Posted: 21st Apr 2015 07:00
Are there any java native code that captures the image of a camera or allow choose an image? I'm having trouble with the native functions of the AppGameKit 2.0.13
CJB
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Posted: 27th Apr 2015 13:12
@Paul: Is there an unofficial AGK2 development blog that gets updated regularly?

V2 T1 (Mostly)
Uzmadesign
RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 27th Apr 2015 17:14
Blog updated folks! Sorry for the delay.

Development Director
TGC Team
CJB
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Posted: 27th Apr 2015 18:20
Thanks Rick,

Your sub-headings: "V2.0.12 released!" on 18th should read V2.0.13, and "V2.0.12 Released" on 27th should read something like "3D Development meeting scheduled!".

Great to hear 3D is going to get some attention at last! Woohoo!

V2 T1 (Mostly)
Uzmadesign
MikeHart
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Posted: 28th Apr 2015 23:21
Quote: "We're currently adding in Spriter Pro support to AppGameKit!"


Was that a kickstarter goal?

-----------------------------------------------------------
Using AGK2 Tier 1
Harlequin
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Posted: 29th Apr 2015 04:18
according to the original kickstarter page https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tgc/app-game-kit-v2/description

no it was not, it feels like they are getting distracted again.
I was hoping better 3D support was sooner than it appears to be.

It's late, I'm tired, out of coffee and now I'm wet.
SpecTre
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Posted: 29th Apr 2015 05:04
3D support says it is being discussed and will soon be implemented and the Spriter Pro should be a good thing to have.

It's all coming together

The Amiga and Amos were great!
Download my game - Paint Pot from Amazon and Google here - http://leap.my-free.website/
Clonkex
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JohnnyMeek
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Posted: 29th Apr 2015 12:31
Spriter support would be very useful.

One thing I noticed when trying to use the Spine commands with the percentage system is that it would be useful to have a global scale for each skeleton. Just try running the spineboy demo in percentage resolution mode and it's huge. Basically makes it unusable.
Scraggle
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Posted: 29th Apr 2015 20:55
Since you're about to get together to discuss the 3D commands, may I suggest including DBO support? most of my 3D objects are in DBO format so it would be very handy if I could use them in AGK.

Or a DBO converter?

AGK V2 user - Tier 1 &amp; 2
Polaraul
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Posted: 29th Apr 2015 22:34
Or FBX, which seems to be pretty much the industry standard. Hell, I would settle even for .OBJ with the ability to actually read the MTL file
baxslash
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 00:38
Quote: "We're currently adding in Spriter Pro support to AppGameKit!"

As a Spriter owner YAY, but as a Spine user BOO... I'd rather see FULL support of Spine (many "Pro" features are not supported) and the rest of the kickstarter goals done first. Sorry but I agree, where did this come from???

Using AppGameKit V2 Tier 1
x3meblue
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 01:22
I think too that it's better to get the basics right first. Like, i can define colors with MakeColor, but in SetClearColor i can not use this colors..While this is not a big problem, it doesn't help to organize the code, which is special with Tier 1 important.

AGK2 Tier 1 / GameGuru / ProMotion 6.5
CyberGamer
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 10:04 Edited at: 30th Apr 2015 10:05
Being a Spriter Pro owner this is great news looking forward to it.

Amd Quad Core FX-4100 3.6MHz,GTX550Ti 1GB GDDR5,8GB DDR3
Windows 8.1 Pro
CJB
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Posted: 30th Apr 2015 12:02
I wish I had known this before starting to delve into 3D in anticipation of the new 3D commands... I would have got stuck into sprite animation instead (would have probably bought spriter instead of FPSC2AGK)! But meh... Spriter Pro API docs should be good so implementation will only take a week or so and then TGC can get cracking on the important stuff!

V2 T1 (Mostly)
Uzmadesign
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 2nd May 2015 17:53
About the new 3d commands

And chance of a hint ?

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Alien Menace
AGK Developer
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Posted: 5th May 2015 10:41
Give us what Blitz3D was capable of doing almost 15 years ago and you'll be on the right track.

I love my Altair 8800 Replica.

http://altairclone.com/
BatVink
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Posted: 5th May 2015 17:45
Quote: "Give us what Blitz3D was capable of doing almost 15 years ago and you'll be on the right track"


That will be DBPro then. Oh, except Blitz3D was DirectX 7

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
TutCity is being rebuilt
CyberGamer
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Posted: 5th May 2015 19:28
Tutorial City is looking quite useful.

Amd Quad Core FX-4100 3.6MHz,GTX550Ti 1GB GDDR5,8GB DDR3
Windows 8.1 Pro
Scraggle
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Posted: 5th May 2015 20:12
^ Yes it is. There's some useful tips in there.
But on that subject, BatVink, why are the code downloads exe's? That would probably put a lot of people off downloading them (including me).
I was just about to download your Timers code to see how you were implementing them but I only want to see the code. I don't really want to download an exe.

AGK V2 user - Tier 1 (mostly)
BatVink
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Posted: 5th May 2015 20:34
Quote: "Tutorial City is looking quite useful"


Quote: "^ Yes it is. There's some useful tips in there."


Thanks I am going to rebuild my repository of old tutorials, new tutorials, other people's tutorials (I already have the go-ahead for a few really good videos from another forumite), and anything else related to making ourselves better games coders.


Quote: "why are the code downloads exe's"

They are the old installers from many years ago. They just create shortcuts in The Game Creators menu folder to the code and PDF file.
I will unbundle them one day but I'd rather get some more content up there first.

Scraggle, I don't think you need the Timer code, you are way beyond that level!

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
TutCity is being rebuilt
Scraggle
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Posted: 5th May 2015 20:42
Quote: "I don't think you need the Timer code"


You're right, I don't need the code. I just wanted to see how you were doing it. Only a fool would consider himself too experienced to learn from another persons code.
I've been coding since I got my first computer (a Sharp MZ700) in 1984 but I still learn new ways to do things everyday and there is no better way than looking at the code of someone equally experienced.

AGK V2 user - Tier 1 (mostly)
RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 6th May 2015 00:23
Hi all,

We had a great time meeting last week and now the bank holiday is over we're back coding more AppGameKit features from the Kickstarter list. When we reviewed all the work completed to date we realised what an amazing job Paul has done in the past year alone. We're sure the 3D will be an exciting new phase of development.

Rick

Development Director
TGC Team
Markus
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Posted: 6th May 2015 14:58
about 3d,
just oriented at the daily needing
Blitz3D & DBPro was really good in past.

i like to see a planned 3d command (wish)list.
maybe collected by a survey.

AGK 108 (B)19 + AppGameKit V2 Beta .. : Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit : AMD Radeon R7 265 : Mac mini OS X 10.10 (Yosemite)
BraindeaD
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Posted: 6th May 2015 16:17
Hi all,
Regarding 3d commands, I think we need a fog function...
Best regards
Scraggle
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Posted: 6th May 2015 17:18
A lot of people, like myself, will have followed TGC from DBP to AppGameKit and as such, have a library of .X and .DBO files.
So, I think having those files types available to import into AppGameKit would be almost essential.

AGK V2 user - Tier 1 (mostly)
Clonkex
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Posted: 7th May 2015 02:36 Edited at: 7th May 2015 02:37
Quote: "A lot of people, like myself, will have followed TGC from DBP to AppGameKit and as such, have a library of .X and .DBO files.
So, I think having those files types available to import into AppGameKit would be almost essential."


I agree. .DBO should be easy enough for them (it's their own format), but .X will require some more work since AFAIK in DBPro they used DirectX's built-in .X loader. AppGameKit uses OpenGL so they probably won't have a .X loader, although I'd be really surprised if there isn't at least one really good open-source .X loader for OpenGL floating around on the internet.

EDIT: Here's a pretty good tutorial for loading .X without DirectX: http://www.gamedev.net/page/resources/_/technical/directx-and-xna/loading-and-displaying-x-files-without-directx-r2221

Alien Menace
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Posted: 8th May 2015 09:13 Edited at: 8th May 2015 09:16
Quote: "That will be DBPro then. Oh, except Blitz3D was DirectX 7"


Yeah except I don't think we would get B3D's built-in surface, brush, terrain, and raycasting/linepick commands. Does DBPRO have equivalent features? I really don't care for DBPRO and haven't used its 3D very much so I referenced what I do know to have a pretty solid (by my reckoning anyway) 3D command set.

Not sure what your DX7 remark is about, as far as I know this isn't a DBP vs B3D discussion and frankly I don't care much about that, I just want a solid 3D command set as I'm sure you do.

I love my Altair 8800 Replica.

http://altairclone.com/
Clonkex
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Posted: 9th May 2015 03:15
Quote: "Does DBPRO have equivalent features? I really don't care for DBPRO and haven't used its 3D very much so I referenced what I do know to have a pretty solid (by my reckoning anyway) 3D command set."


DBPro has built-in terrain and raycasting functionality, but I'm not really sure what you mean by surface and brush. That sounds like BSP stuff (DBPro has the ability to load BSP maps but you can't really create them directly).

Alien Menace
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Posted: 10th May 2015 09:45 Edited at: 10th May 2015 09:46
An example from the help file...

CreateSurface
Surfaces are sections of mesh which are then used to attach triangles to. You must have at least one surface per mesh in order to create a visible mesh, however you can use as many as you like. Splitting a mesh up into lots of sections allows you to affect those sections individually, which can be a lot more useful than if all the surfaces are combined into just one.

mesh = CreateMesh()
surf = CreateSurface(mesh)

v0 = AddVertex (surf, -5,-5,0, 0 ,0)
v1 = AddVertex (surf, 5,-5,0, 1 ,0)
v2 = AddVertex (surf, 0, 5,0, 0.5,1)
tri = AddTriangle (surf,v0,v2,v1)

Brush
A brush is a collection of properties such as Colour, Alpha, Shininess, Texture etc that are all stored as part of the brush. Then, all these properties can be applied to an entity, mesh or surface at once just by using PaintEntity, PaintMesh or PaintSurface.

When creating your own mesh, if you wish for certain surfaces to look differently from one another, then you will need to use brushes to paint individual surfaces. Using commands such as EntityColor, EntityAlpha will apply the effect to all surfaces at once, which may not be what you wish to achieve.

cube=CreateCube()
PositionEntity cube,0,0,5

; Load texture
tex=LoadTexture("media/b3dlogo.jpg")

; Create brush
brush=CreateBrush()

; Apply texture to brush
BrushTexture brush,tex

; And some shininess
BrushShininess brush,1

; Paint mesh with brush
PaintMesh cube,brush

I love my Altair 8800 Replica.

http://altairclone.com/
Clonkex
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Posted: 10th May 2015 15:52
Quote: "An example from the help file..."


Ah, well DBPro definitely can create meshes from scratch. It doesn't quite work the same way but it's similar and probably more powerful.

There's no such thing as brushes in DBPro but you can do exactly the same stuff, just in a different way. The whole "brush" thing seems really weird to me. Instead of creating a brush, setting the visual properties of it and applying it a mesh, you load or create a mesh and then set the visual properties of the mesh directly. By default DBPro meshes are rendered via the fixed function pipeline (it's DX9) but you can also load normal HLSL shaders and apply them to the meshes for virtually any visual effect you can imagine.

CodeMonkey
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Posted: 11th May 2015 16:32 Edited at: 11th May 2015 16:36
There's a very annoying bug with shaders in AGK.. in the GLSL pixel shader the alpha value output doesn't seem to affect the objects transparency at all. Am I missing something here? :S

EDIT: Honestly don't know how I missed this.. I forgot to use SetObjectTransparenct(Obj, TRUE) in my AppGameKit code, time to take a break I guess..
Alien Menace
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Posted: 25th May 2015 02:36
Would be nice to have sprite to 3d object collision commands.

I love my Altair 8800 Replica.

http://altairclone.com/
Clonkex
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Posted: 25th May 2015 14:45
Quote: "Would be nice to have sprite to 3d object collision commands."


How would that work? Sprites don't exist in 3D space.

MrValentine
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Posted: 25th May 2015 14:49
I think what you want there is 3D bill boarding... 3D flat planes...

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