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Geek Culture / Optical Illusions

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Neophyte
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Posted: 6th Dec 2003 21:42
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@heartbone

"Like the 9-11 hoax. "

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ReD_eYe
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Posted: 6th Dec 2003 21:45
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there we go, i'm expecting a big arguement now...


GO TO THE ETERNAL DESTINY FORUMS!!! http://forums.eternaldestinyonline.com
Do it now!!!
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Neophyte
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Posted: 6th Dec 2003 21:49
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I think he is joking or at least I hope so.
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Chris K
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Posted: 6th Dec 2003 21:50
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Yeah!

Way to ruin a cool thread heartbone!


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heartbone
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Posted: 6th Dec 2003 21:54 Edited at: 6th Dec 2003 21:56
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Chris, Optical Illusions?
Ruined?

I didn't mean to, but it is on topic.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
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Chris K
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Posted: 6th Dec 2003 21:59
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No its OK.

Its just some people completely over react to 9-11 comments.

But hey, nothing like a flamebait tag to make people open this thread!


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Neophyte
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Posted: 6th Dec 2003 22:01
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@heartbone

"Ruined?"

Not quite but it might get ruined.

You posted a highly constroversial conspriacy theory that is bound to strike a few emotional nerves. Someone on this board might have lost family to the 9/11 attacks and take your statements the wrong way. I can easily see this getting tagged as flamebait and/or locked in no time if that occured.

If you would like to discuss this in another thread that would be okay, because if that gets locked then we can still post about optical illusions here instead of having to start over in a new thread.
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Chris K
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Posted: 6th Dec 2003 22:46
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OK.

I'm trying to recreate this illusion for the 20 line challenge:

http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/col_equilu/index.html

I've got this:



It works, but the colors get split down the middle at the beginning. It looks quite cool like this but I would like to know how to create the effect on the site, where it is a sphere (with less dots).


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Chris K
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Posted: 6th Dec 2003 22:54 Edited at: 6th Dec 2003 23:14
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I fogot to say:

dot#(t,1) - dot x position
dot#(t,2) - dot y position
dot#(t,3) - dot direction (0 = left, 1 = right)
dot#(t,4) - dot speed
dot#(t,5) - dot limit (edge of circle)


It may be helpful for me to explain what is actually going on.
It is actually loads of dots bouncing back and forth in side a circle. When they are going left they are shaded darker (if it was when they were going right it would spin the other way)


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Chris K
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Posted: 6th Dec 2003 23:34
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Come on.
I know there are loads of people on the forum and this is driving me nuts.
Someone help.




Or at least say how cool my mistake looks.


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Chris K
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 00:20
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Woo Hooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did it!!!

I made this:




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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 00:21
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It's very difficult to understand what you are trying to do. Maybe if you put a link to the original it might help.
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 00:23
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Oh I get it now! It's hard to tell that the dots are moving though. Maybe some motion blur would help.
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Chris K
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 00:32
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What do you mean?
Its meant to look like a segments of a sphere spinning round.


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Chris K
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 00:42 Edited at: 7th Dec 2003 00:43
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Wow.
Now I have the code its really easy to vary.
Here's the one ring (to go with the eye of Sauron)







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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 00:42
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Ok well that's what it looks like! But I thought it might be better if you could see it as both a moving set of points, and a spinning sphere at the same time.

Pincho.
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Chris K
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 00:43
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How do you do motion blur?


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 00:51 Edited at: 7th Dec 2003 00:52
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Best way is to Ghost an Object like a sphere, and then change its colour in a loop so that its colour fades away to black. By using a few spheres this way, close together they have the appearence of motion blur.
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The Darthster
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 01:06
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I did manage to spot all 6 F's the first time round, even though I almost missed the first 'of', noticed it while reading the next line.

Once I was but the learner, now, I am the Master.
See my site for amazing games and demos!
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Chris K
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 10:42
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I can't do motion blur like that because my code is 2D.
Its just dots bouncing back and forth.


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Dave J
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 13:59 Edited at: 7th Dec 2003 14:02
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I also counted 6 the first time, and similarly I almost missed the 'of' until I double checked how many there were.

Also, with the A & B blocks, here's a stab at how it works. There are only really 3 major shades:

1. White/Light Grey - These are quite obvious to point out, with the exception of the B block and the ones on the same diagonal as it.
2. Grey - The colour of the A & B Blocks
3. Dark Grey - These aren't easy to point out but they are the 6 diagonal row of blocks above and below the B block.

Here's a top-down shot with solid colours taken directly from the image, because I haven't used the proper shading, the illusion hasn't worked which is good as it makes it easy for me to explain how it works



The sharp contrast of white around the near black colour makes them appear lighter and a more grey colour, but because the B block is still lighter then that colour it appears even brighter then the grey, and hence, closer to a white colour. As you can see in the original image, it still looks grey (not complete white) and hence the need to put in an object to mask this (the cylinder) and create a shadow effect to make the illusion not so obvious.

The contrast of colours act on people everyday, I know it's happened to me when creating a website I'll pick a colour surrounded by white and stick it in a design surrounded by black and then look at the two and think to myself, "Hey, that's not the same colour" and no matter how many times I use the dropper tool I can't quite get the exact same colour. The reality of it is that it's the colours surrounding it that make it appear different, it's not Paint Shop Pro screwing up like I originally thought.

And surely enough, if you take the B block colour and move it between other colours of bright contrast, you can see it's the same as the A block.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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heartbone
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 21:23
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Pincho here's the explanation for the missed F's.

Most of us sound the text in our minds as we read.
OF sounds like OV so we miss it.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
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Neophyte
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 21:27
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@Exeat

Good explaintion. Except in this case the A and B really are two different colors. I checked with the dropper tool in the GIMP and they are in fact two differnet colors, well several different colors to be percise but quite different none the less.
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the_winch
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 22:05 Edited at: 7th Dec 2003 22:06
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I copied the b box onto of the a box and it still works. They are only different because someone saved it as a jpeg not a requirement for the illusion to work.



dbpro : p166mmx @ 233 : 256mb : sb 128pci : sis onboard
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Neophyte
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 23:29
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@Divide By Zero

"Neophyte, are you using a real monitor ? or that cardboard cut-out that came with a packet of felt tips attached to a rice crispies box ?"

The monitor has nothing to do with it. I checked the value of the numbers in the GIMP. Numbers don't lie.
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Neophyte
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 23:30
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@the_winch

All right. I'll give that one a go. Though I could have sworn that someone posted a non-jpeg one previously and I varified that that one was the same as well.
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 23:33
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@Neophyte the bmp version works with a single colour. Jpg's mess around with the picture, and give you the wrong numbers. I've used the pixel test before, and it was all 1 colour apart from the writing.

Pincho.
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Neophyte
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Posted: 7th Dec 2003 23:38
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@the_winch

This one is the real deal it seems. They're, from what I can tell through the GIMP, identical. Though visually the one on top does seem darker than the one on bottom.
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Neophyte
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 00:24
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@Divide By Zero

Quote: ""The monitor has nothing to do with it."
"


"You're telling me Open your eyes then!"

I was referring to the fact that I was basing my conclusions on the color picker in the GIMP. I wasn't determining them on eyesite.

"Yeah ok, there is 'slight' colour variations but overall the colour of both the squares are the same"

In the image that the_winch supplied it is identical. In the other image they are different and there is nothing 'slight' about the differences. The B that is in shadow holds colors that are in the 50s and 60s. The A holds colors that are in the 100s and 120s. If you don't believe me then check the original image for your self.

"unless what you was expecting was a 2 colour picture without any shades of a colour. When you look around you in reality do you believe the colour of an object is completely 1 colour and no other variations of it ? "

?

"I hope my point is clear."

It wasn't.
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 00:41
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@Pincho:
OMG
WHAT THE FUC* WAS THAT??!!
NICE!!!!

Visit our new site! : http://www.megatoncreations.tk

If life throws you a grenade...pull the pin and throw it back!
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Dazzag
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 01:33
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Cool stuff. Personal favourite was that spinny weird one years ago that basically you stare at for a while then look at your hand. It looks like your hand is pulsating like something out of Manimal (remember that one???). But nothing around it is!!! Creepy...

Since I can't find that one anywhere, what about the Jesus one? Doesn't need much explanation, just looks cool.

http://www.eyetricks.com/jesus.htm

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Kharnor
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 09:31
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I counted 15 f's at first, because i thought the trick to it was that you had to keep counting until it actually says "stop counting", which it doesn't.

In doing this, i somehow managed to count all 6 f's in the actual passage. Not that hard, really.

Quote: "The brain cannot process the word "OF"."


What are you, a fish?

Always cool, Farmboy Kharnor was seen walking around with a long string of toilet paper stuck to his foot.
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las6
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 10:24
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Quote: "Good explaintion. Except in this case the A and B really are two different colors. I checked with the dropper tool in the GIMP and they are in fact two differnet colors, well several different colors to be percise but quite different none the less. "


You really want to be the pain in the ass here?

I doublechecked the original jpg, and from it is clear to see that the colors are the same. If you bother to zoom even a bit, you'll notice that there are jpg compression artifacts, so don't check them. Or if you do, set the check to 5 by 5 average. The solid color is the same (107,107,107) in both tiles.
Also, what is your display mode? 16 bit? or 8bit?

PLUS, the thing you seem to have the most trouble is reading:
Quote: "This one you will not believe: square A & B are the same colour"

That doesn't meant that the text should be same in the colour.

Keyboard not detected. Press F1 to continue.
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 10:36
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Well you can't expect everyone to know what Jpg is. Aol messes with pictures too if you don't have broadband.

Pincho.
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Sly D
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 17:47
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Try counting the number of black dots.



A cute looking koala with a WHAT!? THEY can't use Kalashnikovs, can they?
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Robin
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 17:52
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they keep on disappearing before i can count them!

http://www.thegameszone.tk
robin@thegameszone.tk
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Damokles
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 19:11
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@ Dazzag : If you really want the illusion, you don't find anywhere ... I have it here, on my PC.

"Begin at the beginning, and go on till you come to the end: then stop." - Lewis Carroll
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Mattman
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Posted: 8th Dec 2003 23:25
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Good One Cyber_Freak!

I am mischeivious
RoooooOoooooKoooooKoooooRoooooOoooooKoooooKooooo!
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Dazzag
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 00:17
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No-one like the Jesus one then?

Quote: "@ Dazzag : If you really want the illusion, you don't find anywhere ... I have it here, on my PC"

Well, when I say I couldn't find anywhere... I really mean I did one half arsed attempt on Yahoo. Found Jesus ( ) but not Manimal. Then couldn't be bothered to try any harder at all.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 01:41
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I like the Jesus one but I've seen it before.
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Dave J
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 02:33
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Ditto


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Preston C
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 02:55
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@Cyber_Freak: I got 35, can I have a cookie now


Intel Celeron 1.3 Ghrz 512MB Ram NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 128MB
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Neophyte
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 03:01
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@las6

"You really want to be the pain in the ass here?"

You bet.

"I doublechecked the original jpg, and from it is clear to see that the colors are the same. "

No, they are not.

"If you bother to zoom even a bit,"

I did zoom. I stated this repeatedly.

"you'll notice that there are jpg compression artifacts, so don't check them."

How am I suppose to notice them? What magical way am I suppose to decifier what is a compression artifact and what is an original pixel?

"PLUS, the thing you seem to have the most trouble is reading:

Quote: ""This one you will not believe: square A & B are the same colour""

That doesn't meant that the text should be same in the colour."

Yes it does. That is the point of the illusion as the the_winch demonstrated with with the modified .bmp at the top of this page.

Oh, and incase anyone else wants to be an a** about my monitor(not that it matters because we are using tools to determine the color of the squares, my monitor could be in freaking black and white and it wouldn't make a difference what the GIMP reads) I'm in 32-bit mode at 1024 X 768.
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Neophyte
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 03:02
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@Pincho

"Well you can't expect everyone to know what Jpg is. "

I'm well aware of what a JPEG is.
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Easily Confused
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 03:09 Edited at: 9th Dec 2003 03:11
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I hope this link works (fingers crossed) but here is a variation of the A & B square thing found at the ChessBase site using knights.



http://www.chessbase.com/puzzle/puzz10b.htm

Programming anything is an art, and you can't rush art.
Unless your name is Bob Ross, then you can do it in thirty minutes.
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Ian T
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 05:40
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The optical illusion is not the text. The text is merely an indicator. The point is the tiles' apparent color. The reason he made the 'b' be placed in the 'a's location was to indicate that the colors were the same-- all he did was move the 'B' to the 'A'. The tiles are both 107,107,107. Go look at the original .bmp in Paint. It's very simple and you might want to bother doing research before arguing something.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Neophyte
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 05:52
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@Mouse

"The optical illusion is not the text. "

I beg to differ.

"The text is merely an indicator."

No it is suppose to be part of the illusion. Look at Easily Confused variation that came from the ChessBase. Its not all about the tiles.

"The reason he made the 'b' be placed in the 'a's location was to indicate that the colors were the same-- "

And that the text would look different if it weren't corrupted by the JPEG. The text does look different when it is in the top square, like it is suppose to.

"all he did was move the 'B' to the 'A'."

And the text looked different as a result. Like it was suppose to.

"The tiles are both 107,107,107. Go look at the original .bmp in Paint."

I never said that the tiles weren't different. Only the text. If you thought that I implied otherwise I was sorry if I was unclear.

" It's very simple and you might want to bother doing research before arguing something."

I always do my research. I've encountered these kinds of visual puzzles before and the text was always part of the illusion. I was just pointing out that there was something wrong with this one because the text was different and it's not suppose to be.
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Dave J
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 06:00 Edited at: 9th Dec 2003 06:02
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OF COURSE the text is different! How else are we supposed to be able to see what it reads? It would blend into the tiles colour rendering it unreadable! Forget the text, we're talking about the TILES!


Quote: "square A & B are the same colour"


The SQUARES are, not the text.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Neophyte
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 08:03 Edited at: 9th Dec 2003 08:05
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@Exeat

Check the image at the top of this page. Those letters are the same color(though they don't look it) and they are perfectly readable.

"The SQUARES are, not the text."

The text is part of the squares not seperate.
Besides I've already explained this before. Every other rendition of this optical puzzle includes the text. Why not this? Because JPEG screwed it up. That was all that I was pointing out.
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Dave J
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Posted: 9th Dec 2003 08:19
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I swear you could've just said the text wasn't the same colour.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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