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AppGameKit Studio Chat / "AppGameKit Studio" - Some Questions

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JeZxLee
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Posted: 20th Feb 2019 21:23
Hi,

Couple of questions about upcoming "AppGameKit Studio":
1. Will there be a Linux version?
2. Will AppGameKit 2 projects load and build on AppGameKit Studio?
3. Will persistent HTML5 game data saving be working(finally)?

Thanks!

Our finished open-source AppGameKit 2 game can be viewed below:
http://fallenangelsoftware.com/NightRider_Engine.html

Jesse
JeZxLee
16BitSoft
Video Game Design Studio
http://www.16BitSoft.com
Open-Source AppGameKit Project!
Sh4d0xx
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Posted: 21st Feb 2019 21:00 Edited at: 21st Feb 2019 21:00
There are so many questions regarding AppGameKit Studio but so little answers.

It comes as a surprise to me, and I've already started hustling the funds together to get it seeing as it's rather short notice.

I think TGC need to realise that the elusive sales tactics should be left to the newcomers who are yet to adopt AGK.

Loyal customers who've stood by your products for years don't deserve to be burnt with things like the Visual Editor.

The least we deserve is some sort of roadmap, which is ironically a selling point in itself.

I'll more than likely get AppGameKit S, but I need some important questions answered before I put down my money.

After the Visual Editor issue, I've had no other choice but to be more careful.

1) Analytics.

2) Better UI support.

Among many others have got to be present or it's a no no.

Times are tough!
Sh4xx
Zigi
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2019 14:57 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2019 14:59
This is what we know so far.

1. There will be no Linux version at launch. TGC is focusing on Windows and Mac first and Linux release comes after. But, in the current survey they sent out to beta testers they did ask how is it effect you if there is no Linux version at launch. So they might change their minds and push a LInux version out at launch if lot of people mention they actually run Linux right now.

2. Tier1 code will be backward compatible so even if you won't be able to directly open the AppGameKit project in AGKS, you should be able to import the media and the code in to a new AGKS project and compile with no modification required. However, it is uncertain at the moment if the DLC's like GGLoader and VR will be compatible and available. I hope they are going to be bundled because it would be not nice to ask me to buy them again for AGKS and also I think VR would benefit a lot from the performance improvement Vulkan offer .

3. I don't think it would be a priority. AGKS is about a new IDE, a new Vulkan based engine and an "integrated" Level Editor was mentioned too. No new features are mentioned but I also really hope this problem will be sorted in AGKS because without the ability to save, the HTML5 platform is useless.
Tristanlogd
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2019 14:58
To add to these questions, will visual editor projects import without issue? I am hobbling a long with the visual editor and want to know if I should stop completely until studio becomes available? I don’t want to do things twice if visual editor will become obsolete.
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Zigi
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2019 15:02 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2019 15:03
Quote: "will visual editor projects import without issue?"

I hope not. In my opinion the Visual Editor was going in to the wrong direction, I really hope we are getting a complete rewrite of the edior in AGKS with more integration and this is why the DLC has been abandoned. If it would be the case I could forgive for the DLC.
Sh4d0xx
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2019 21:10
Quote: "I hope not. In my opinion the Visual Editor was going in to the wrong direction"


It seems like the case. Which makes me believe it has been abandoned.

Not happy about this.
Sh4xx
Rich Dersheimer
AGK Developer
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Posted: 25th Feb 2019 19:48
Two things I would like to know...

Export of .exe for windows... a real exe, or the same type of player/token bytecode stuff?

Can we get a custom icon for the exported .exe?
blink0k
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Posted: 25th Feb 2019 20:08 Edited at: 25th Feb 2019 20:09
Quote: "Export of .exe for windows... a real exe, or the same type of player/token bytecode stuff?"

Unfortunately I think the answer is no.

Quote: "Can we get a custom icon for the exported .exe?"

You can do that now. If you create an icon file called icon.ico in your project directory it will use that as the apps icon
PHeMoX
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Posted: 26th Feb 2019 16:41
Quote: "You can do that now. If you create an icon file called icon.ico in your project directory it will use that as the apps icon"


You mean as a part of AGK2 or as a part of AppGameKit Studio? Because I tried and it didn't work with AGK2 in my game's folder (the one with /media etc in it).
blink0k
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Posted: 26th Feb 2019 21:39 Edited at: 6th Mar 2019 19:42
Part of AGK2. Works for me. The file must be in .ico format

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Rich Dersheimer
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Posted: 26th Feb 2019 21:50
@blink0k

Yes, that puts the icon on the program window.

I'm talking about making the icon for the exe file itself NOT be the AGK2 logo. Can be done with third party icon changers, but it would be nice if AGKS would be able to do it as well.
blink0k
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Posted: 26th Feb 2019 21:56
Quote: "I'm talking about making the icon for the exe file itself NOT be the AGK2 logo. Can be done with third party icon changers, but it would be nice if AGKS would be able to do it as well."

Ok, sorry, my bad. Maybe request it in the v2 feature requests thread
JokerZ
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Posted: 27th Feb 2019 16:53
Does anyone know if the asset / media browser in the AppGameKit Studio can look/browse inside zip files for assets?

Most of my graphics are all stored inside of zip files so was curious if I had to unpack them into fiolders or not.
I am the Rocker, the Roller, the OutOfController
Takis76
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Posted: 27th Feb 2019 18:31 Edited at: 27th Feb 2019 18:34
Is nice to hear there will be an AppGameKit Studio. BUT. Is it necessary to create whole programming language again as the AppGameKit already exist. Why do you need to create a new programming language and not improve the current one?
What will happen with the AppGameKit2? Will it become obsolete?
Do people will need to purchase the same programming language again?
I own the AppGameKit2 I haven't used it yet. But I have seen some of its examples.
I will be happy the AppGameKit to be the next DarkBasicPro.
But in all of these years all programming languages of the GameCreators lack lots of features. Will it there any native GUI library? Or any In Game Gui library too? Most of modern programming languages supports windows forms GUI with events and there are and in game Guis libraries with events too.
Another one very important feature is to be some media packer or some way to read directly from a zip file (Zip Stream) or even create zip files on runtime.
Additional to able to load 3D models and do all of this nice staff the old DarkBasicPro did. Including bitmap fonts, fast true type fonts, animation, 2D, 3D, dynamic lights, Physics, Collisions, AI and all of these nice plugins the DarkBasic Pro had in the past.
Also if this programming language is able to load 3D models a nice full featured terrain editor will be very useful.
The terrain editor should able to have features to raise and lowers the terrain, to populate the valleys and mountains with vegetation, to able to create tree models, to place multiple textures and water, including and under water effect. To able to create holes on the terrain to able to create entrances to caves for subterranean levels and dungeons.
Also the language should have the ability to load skyboxes and create full day/night circles with weather effects too.
If the language will not support visual programming like Game Maker Studio will not be the most important but for someone who programs and likes to write source code all of these features will be nice.
PHeMoX
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Posted: 27th Feb 2019 22:01 Edited at: 27th Feb 2019 22:01
@Takis76: It probably supports Tier 1 code, at least I kind of hope so in order to port my most recent projects to the new stuff.

@blink0k: Thanks, it seems it won't do just changing the extension. Has to be a real .ico apparently.
Takis76
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Posted: 27th Feb 2019 23:30
@PHeMoX Saying tier 1 code you mean the code which looks like Basic no C++ (I do not really know what mean when they are saying Tier 1 and Tier 2).
Ortu
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Posted: 28th Feb 2019 01:34
Yes, tier 1 = basic, tier 2 = c++
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
blink0k
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Posted: 28th Feb 2019 02:08
Also Tier 1 = Geany (Soon to be AppGameKit Studio), Tier 2=Visual studio, Android studio (I believe there are some other independent options as well)
Tobias_Ripper
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Posted: 28th Feb 2019 12:24
I actually can't wait to get my hads on AppGameKit Studio now. It's the perfect time as I am working on re-making my first game I made with AppGameKit (Dream Temple) now with a plot, voice overs, campaign and networking co-op. And as I'm working on the game, I'm also recording everything so by the end of the development, I get a video game and a game development course for that game. The new engine release is just right on time!
Eisenstadt Studio: Eisenstadtstudio.com
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JeZxLee
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Posted: 28th Feb 2019 16:23
No HTML5 export in AppGameKit Studio - moving on
JeZxLee
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GarBenjamin
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Posted: 28th Feb 2019 17:19
@JeZxLee I must have missed that? Is that correct that they said no HTML5 / web export in AGKS? It seems very strange for any new game dev engine / framework to not support that.
Mac
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Posted: 28th Feb 2019 17:47
I would also wonder whether things like the GameGuru loader will work with AGKS.
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xCept
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 06:42
Quote: "I'm talking about making the icon for the exe file itself NOT be the AGK2 logo."


This has been one of my most desired features since 2011 and I recall it was planned to be incorporated many years ago but never was.

On a related subject, I find the "rebranded" icon that features the complete words "App Game Kit" very unappealing and distracting. I don't think icons should be "wordy" and at most resolutions and icon sizes you can barely make out what it even says. The previous incarnation that was simply "A G K" which was much better; most other engines have icons that are devoid of any text at all, for good reason.
Rich Dersheimer
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 15:06
Quote: "Two things I would like to know...

Export of .exe for windows... a real exe, or the same type of player/token bytecode stuff?"


It is still the bytecode player. Running the .exe with no path to the media/bytecode file results in the AppGameKit player starting and waiting for a broadcast.
JokerZ
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 15:26 Edited at: 1st Mar 2019 15:29
Answering my own post now that I have the software.

zip files are identified but not supported for opening to access media within the media browser window. My media files are fine when unpacked to the media folder.
I am the Rocker, the Roller, the OutOfController
Zigi
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 16:16 Edited at: 1st Mar 2019 16:24
Hi.
So now that the pre-order is on, I would have some questions before make the decision.

Is the scene editor included or it is work in progress?
No one really mention it and I"ve seen no video about it. So Is it going to be a new editor or it is based on either the Visual Editor or Placement Editor?
In case it is a new editor but work in progress, can we at least get some idea what the experience is going to be like, can we get some info on that?
Is the scene in the trailer being rendered in AGKS or it is only a 3D animation not related to AGKS engine in any ways?
Is HTML5 export coming? It is kind of important to me, not that I'm not going to buy it for Android and Windows development but for example, HTML5 could be a way to export to UWP with Visual Studio if AGKS is not going to support it natively.
If I buy a Steam key now, am I going to get it or I need to download from TGC for now?
If I get a Steam key now, why AGKS is not available on Steam as Early Access? I would love that
Been told the AGKClassic DLC's are compatible. So can I just copy and paste the DLC folder in to AGKS?
Will the DLC's be available for AGKS officially so we don't need to install AGKC only to download the DLC's?

I would appreciate if someone could answer some of these questions.
Thank you in advance.
The Next
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 16:32 Edited at: 1st Mar 2019 16:34
Quote: "Is the scene editor included or it is work in progress?"

It is not included yet it is still in pre-alpha development

Quote: "No one really mention it and I"ve seen no video about it. So Is it going to be a new editor or it is based on either the Visual Editor or Placement Editor?"

It isn't ready to be shown yet, there will be updates

Quote: "In case it is a new editor but work in progress, can we at least get some idea what the experience is going to be like, can we get some info on that?"

Same as above not ready yet

Quote: "Is the scene in the trailer being rendered in AGKS or it is only a 3D animation not related to AGKS engine in any ways?"

The scene in the trailer is rendered in AGKS with a few custom shaders, remember this is an early version.

Quote: "Is HTML5 export coming? It is kind of important to me, not that I'm not going to buy it for Android and Windows development but for example, HTML5 could be a way to export to UWP with Visual Studio if AGKS is not going to support it natively."

No definate word on this yet, I believe the plan is to support the same export methods as AppGameKit Classic

Quote: "If I buy a Steam key now, am I going to get it or I need to download from TGC for now?"

If you buy a Steam key now, you will get a TGC download version until June. Then in June you lose the TGC version and get a Steam Key instead

Quote: "If I get a Steam key now, why AGKS is not available on Steam as Early Access? I would love that"

The early tests will not be on Steam at all, this is a TGC only product for now.

Quote: "Been told the AGKClassic DLC's are compatible. So can I just copy and paste the DLC folder in to AGKS? "

This hasn't been added to Studio yet and DLC support wouldn't be tested anyway as it is an alpha. The plan is the AppGameKit Classic DLCs will be detected by Studio and work easily.

Quote: "Will the DLC's be available for AGKS officially so we don't need to install AGKC only to download the DLC's?"

No word on this yet it depends on Steam's support for this.
Windows 10, Intel i7 4.2 GHz, 16GB DDR4, NVIDIA RTX 2060

Kevin Cross
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 16:32
There is no scene editor yet. Its coming according to the appgamekit studio site
OryUI - A WIP AGK2 UI Framework
PHeMoX
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 19:44 Edited at: 1st Mar 2019 19:46
I do hope the Scene editor includes 3D scene editing. Can this be confirmed? Already pre-ordered and tried the alpha (it's very nice!) , but just curious as that would be very important to me. edit: I don't mind waiting a few more months to get an answer. I understand it's not ready yet.
Sh4d0xx
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 21:09
Hmmm it's only 30 quid.

By paying now, do I need to pay again when it releases ?

Thanks
Sh4xx
puzzler2018
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 21:11
Im prepared to pay £1000 for a great product by the way

Tier 1 Developer
fraktal77
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 21:50
If i pre-order AppGameKit Studio now, will i get a steam key in June?
Kevin Cross
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 22:41
@Sh4dox you wouldn't need to pay for it again once it's finally released.
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Sh4d0xx
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 22:51
Quote: "@Sh4dox you wouldn't need to pay for it again once it's finally released."


Ok.

In that case I think I'll pre-order it.

Although I'm REALLY unhappy with the Visual Editor (and I haven't forgotten it) and a few unanswered questions about AppGameKit S, 30 Quid isn't that bad seeing as I've spent more on going to LIDL and Pound Land.

I wish AppGameKit S implements a UI system. It would be criminal not too.
Sh4xx
Sh4d0xx
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Posted: 1st Mar 2019 22:59
It would be better to just show full price + tax = £34.80

Thanks
Sh4xx
The Next
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2019 09:54
Quote: "If i pre-order AppGameKit Studio now, will i get a steam key in June?"


If you choose the Steam version when you checkout yes

Quote: "It would be better to just show full price + tax"


This isn't possible because until you enter your address at checkout we have no idea where you are and what tax laws apply to your exact location.
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Rick Nasher
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2019 12:35 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2019 12:42
Ok, couldn't resist my urges/curiosity, went ahead and got it.

As we're in the questions thread, some remarks/questions:

1. Asset preview, and drag&drop works pretty fine. Luv the dark theme as default.

2. I like that it hasn't got an installer yet, runs straight from the bare exe in the directory where I unzipped.

3. Contrary to what I thought, it actually runs 3d gfx on my famously old system that *doesn't* have Vulkan drivers available for it (according to NVIDIA at least or MS must have slipped them in).
Is this because it's not using the Vulkan engine yet, but only the editor or do we need to somehow use/turn on the "beta-interpreter" in the interpreters list?

4. If Vulkan is implemented already, can we run the gfx code demo that shows in the video from somewhere? (probably kills my system to a halt but would be cool to see anyway).

5. FPS seemed to have dropped in some cases by +50% (stil useable though), but this could be due to more gfx/preview windows in the editor?
The Next
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2019 12:36
@Rick Nasher

This build doesn't have the Vulkan rendering engine in it, this is using the OpenGL renderer.
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Rick Nasher
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2019 12:43 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2019 20:51
Ah that explains a lot. Thanks for the info.

[EDIT]
But not entirely why kills FPS so much. Then must be due to the editor's gui, preview stuff etc.
What is the WindowsBeta.exe in interpreters folder then, is that Vulkan?

[EDIT2]
Tried renaming it to x64 version: no noticeable difference. So no clue what it is. Perhaps this is where the future Vulkan is going to live?

[EDIT3]
I've noticed in Studio's prefs that on my system it eats ~26fps.
My guess is that's it's the GUI preview windows and stuff. Perhaps it shares the same AppGameKit code and is like running 2 AppGameKit apps side by side, which brings fps down?

[EDIT4]
Just seen Qube's remarks on it in thread "AppGameKit Studio Chat /Mac - vSync still broken and app's run much slower than AppGameKit Classic"
Quote: "2.. I understand that the IDE is an app itself and so to expect an FPS reduction during development. However without the IDE open my game now runs at 290FPS whereby on AppGameKit Classic 2018-07-12 it ran at 670FPS. Also in full screen it's even slower"


However Qube mentions it also applies to standalone exe's without the Studio IDE running, so makes no sense.
This is not happening in my case, a Win 10 laptop.
I did notice has to use Run as Admin otherwise wouldn't save the exe in the project directory on my D: disk, wherefrom I also execute AppGameKit S.

[EDIT5]
Updates:
-The speed issue is gone by using Run FPS from the build menu.
-The mac mouse issue had to be reported to the GitHub otherwise won't be seen as apparently all issues/bugs.
Zigi
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2019 13:54 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2019 14:00
Quote: "The scene in the trailer is rendered in AGKS with a few custom shaders"

Maybe just me but I find it impressive actually. Very professional.

Quote: "Quote: "No one really mention it and I"ve seen no video about it. So Is it going to be a new editor or it is based on either the Visual Editor or Placement Editor?"

It isn't ready to be shown yet, there will be updates"


I'm sorry to hear that since the Scene editor is the only reason I am considering to get it. The new IDE looks good especially the debugger and the improvements the new Vulkan renderer promises also sounds reasonable but I'm fine with the classic for now, all I really need is a good level editor. Before I buy it, I only want to be sure I am not getting something that I won't be using like the Visual Editor. It was a waste of money for me.

Thanks for the reply.
Maverick_LSC
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2019 03:07
Quick question, not new to AppGamekit but new to these forums.

Will AppGameKit Studio continue to support AppGameKit VR, GameGuru and the GameGuru Loader?

I recently acquired an Oculus Rift and wonder if the above DLC's will be support in AppGameKit Studio as I would like to export my code to the newly supported Vulkan API based AppGameKit Studio.

Sincerely and Thanks,

Mav...
GH69
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Posted: 5th Mar 2019 09:09
I'm confused concerning the cost of this.
I originally thought the Pre Order offers were especially for existing AppGameKit owners, on visiting the pages this seems to not be the case and it's this price for everyone?

Also when I visited the other day when the email came through a price of £29 was shown which plus 20% tax would be the £34.80 Sh4d0xx mentioned up there ^^^
Now it is showing £37 before taxes £44.40 after ???
Kevin Cross
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Posted: 5th Mar 2019 12:21
I thought I'd noticed the slight price increase when I visited the site yesterday. Thought I was imagining it.
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GH69
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Posted: 5th Mar 2019 13:04
Quote: "I thought I'd noticed the slight price increase when I visited the site yesterday. Thought I was imagining it."


I don't consider an after tax increase of around 30% "slight" ...
Kevin Cross
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Posted: 5th Mar 2019 13:21
I said "slight" because I couldn't remember what I originally paid as I bought two copies. I just remember it seeming to look different.
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Santman
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Posted: 5th Mar 2019 14:04 Edited at: 5th Mar 2019 14:07
I'm still waiting to see this video run in real-time.........I don't buy it personally.

As a point though.....running on what? That level of texture detail, soft shadows, lighting and reflection/refraction.....at 500 fps? What is that running on?

Are those shaders going to be supplied with AGKS......cause if their not, that's dodgy advertising at best....Though obviously realising that just purchasing assets to that quality puts the visuals out of reach of most people already makes it dodgy advertising, but i guess no worse than Unreals tech demos.
PHeMoX
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Posted: 5th Mar 2019 16:26
Quote: "This isn't possible because until you enter your address at checkout we have no idea where you are and what tax laws apply to your exact location."


Yeah, that makes sense. It's not that big of a deal anyway to me.
The Next
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Posted: 5th Mar 2019 17:25
@GH69

The price you are referring to was originally incorrect due to the exchange rate being incorrect. Anyone that ordered on the first day got it slightly cheaper as a result. We have now corrected the pricing, we will be honoring the original orders at the lower price.
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Ortu
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Posted: 5th Mar 2019 19:21
Quote: "I'm still waiting to see this video run in real-time.........I don't buy it personally.

As a point though.....running on what? That level of texture detail, soft shadows, lighting and reflection/refraction.....at 500 fps? What is that running on?

Are those shaders going to be supplied with AGKS......cause if their not, that's dodgy advertising at best....Though obviously realising that just purchasing assets to that quality puts the visuals out of reach of most people already makes it dodgy advertising, but i guess no worse than Unreals tech demos."


GaborD posted that it was using a 1070, which seems reasonable. It's uncertain if the shaders will ship with the product or not, my guess is there is some negotiation in progress.

I agree though that it is misleading to use that render as the main marketing image if the product will not produce that level of graphics by default.

It is fine to showcase that as a user example, but the current marketing makes it look that that is representative of the base offering and not just what an individual advanced user can do on thier own
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
Santman
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Posted: 5th Mar 2019 21:03 Edited at: 5th Mar 2019 21:04
To be honest....and I'd LOVE to be proven wrong....but I don't actually belive that's a realtime render: garbor has ALWAYS ignored any ask for a video since he dropped that PBR shader. Fairly certain some of it is a blender asset pack, but the shadows, relfection and ligthing are flawless if you zoom in (that's not PBR), even the steam off the cup of tea. OMG if it is real, and able to run at 500fps (!!)....

I have a 1080GTX and none of the tech demo's I've run touch those graphics, and no where NEAR those frame rates.....so fingers crossed, but for me that's a case of belive it when I can run it for myself.

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