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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / You wanted to know what is being done - here it is...

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BatVink
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 00:14
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Quote: "...if two friends went halves in DBpro because they couldnt afford to buy their own copies. With activation only one can use it..."


In the UK, I believe the law is many copies as long as only one of them is in use at any given time.
Theoretically, if you use Office / VB / Lotus / et al at work, they could let you install it at home. You will only be at home or work, never both (unless you work from home like me )

BatVink
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Eldar
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 02:47
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One quick question... are their any plans to switch over from DX 9b and PS/VS 2.0 to DX 9c and PS/VS 3.0? This news is incredible, keep up thge good work !

3.1 ghz Pentium 4
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DX 9
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 11:05
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Well, as DX9.0c wont be out for a long while yet, I dont know.


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Philip
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 23:45
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@Rich Davey

Rich, I read your original post in this thread with much interest.

It occurs to me that your documentation project is roughly what I've tried to do for DB Pro's 3D vector maths commands in my Vector Guide. Thats going to be published next week (when I'll be in Italy).

If you think any part of the Guide is useful for your documentation project, and would save you time, you are very welcome to copy it/amend it as you see fit and use it in your project. I very happily waive copyright for that although if you do use any of the Guide please do mention that I originally wrote it.

I'll be in Italy next week so look to Kentaree, the publisher, for announcements as to its publication.

Ta.

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P1.3ghz / 384 megs / GeForce MX 5200 128meg / WinXP home
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boom
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Posted: 5th Jun 2004 09:35
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Dudes, i have a few issues myself with dbpro. as many users do, i have been looking for updates almost every day.

half finished it is, professional product? it isnt yet.

come on guys, get this software right, it says develope any type of game, i have developed a standard 2d blaster that suffers from speed difficulties, click teams multimedia fusion actualy operates better in terms of frames per second. you sold it (dbpro), so how about making it work properly. sync does not cure problems there simply isnt a way to make a 2d game run at the same speed. (full screen or windowed) i opted for this package rather then Blitz to create professional games, puzzle games or first person shooters may be possible. but 2d fast shooters are a no no.

i greatly anticipate the bug fixes, and hope that the 2d drawing functions are more optimized to our needs. amos (AMIGA) was more then capable. so come on guys. you'v had revinue, stop developing third party stuff for your own ends and make your fans happier or you will loose the fight.

dbpro needs to be able to run at the same frame rate (smoothly) weather in windowed or full screen modes. its probably an issue that we all have. blast first person games, there are too many and they are crap. retro is big at present and we need to adddress these issues with the software we have bought.

enough said! i had to get this out my system. so please please fix it or ill send the boys round. i run a brand new dell heaps of ram, 2.8 ghz and i expect smoothness, compatability and functionality.

thanks guys, please dont take offence i do say what im thinking, and months of work on a game thats unpublishable due to speed restrictions or fps slowdowns do make a man angry and tired.

luv to you all and keep the updates coming

DIG
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DMXtra
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Posted: 5th Jun 2004 11:22 Edited at: 5th Jun 2004 11:23
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Boom, if you want retro, download an emulator. Got some great stuff there. Re-inventing the past is something you should do on your own.

Retro games are good for emulators but arn't whats selling right now. 3D games are the biggest sellers and 3D games with Multiplayer (read internet support) are the way of the present and future.

Here are just a few tips to help you with 2D:

1) If you are using sprites then turn backsave off
and it will go MUCH faster. (backsave on might be on by default or you might be setting it to on).

2) Also make sure you set SYNC RATE to a decent number. To see how fast it will go try to just setting Sync rate to zero. Sync rate 0.

3) Also make sure you try windowed support which has vsync off and also usually full screen mode has vsync on so its going to be slower.

4) Try using FASTSYNC instead of SYNC in your loop

5) Make sure you have the very latest video card drivers for your video card and also make sure you have Direct X 9.ob installed.

6) Also make sure you are using the requirements for the language. Don't try to make a Pentium 200 Mhz machine run DBPro games because they will be too slow.

Try these suggestions and see if they will help.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 5th Jun 2004 12:12 Edited at: 5th Jun 2004 23:01
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Quote: "dbpro needs to be able to run at the same frame rate (smoothly) weather in windowed or full screen modes"

Its impossible. If you want everything to move smoothly in all modes and all machines, you MUST (and I repeat MUST) base all movement on computer speed. Once you've got that you can find that everything can go as fast as you want.


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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 5th Jun 2004 21:42
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Boom:

Quote: ", i have developed a standard 2d blaster that suffers from speed difficulties, "


Just a question, Are you using Sprite Priority to handle draw scene depth ?

it you are, it includes (since the early alpha's) a lovely bottleneck the deeper/wider the z depths get. That could be a cause. You might get better results rolling your own sprite commands out of memblock 'meshes' (so depth/rotation/vertex colours/uv clamping can be handled also, plus common textures an are shared, cutting the texture over head dramatically)

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
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DcZee
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Posted: 6th Jun 2004 18:47
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So very cool,..if what I can do with dbpro now can only get better then im a real happy guy hehe!! Thanks,..keep up the good work!
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AramusM
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Posted: 6th Jun 2004 22:58
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Any chance of putting better pointer support or returning UDT's from functions on your to-do list please
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Jun 2004 01:43
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DarkBASIC Professionals' 2D Operations are as fast as C++; provided you know howto actually use them.

DMXtra has actually adviced you here with almost every rookie mistake to do when using Pro. What alot of the oldies don't seem to grasp correctly is DBP is not DB; It's syntax is the same, but under the bonnet is a TOTALLY different engine.

first rule you should remember is... unless you NEED the sync commands; DO NOT USE THEM!! It is a point I cannot stress enough, peoples problems with dbp is quite frankly it is a quirky little language, so you've gotta understand these quirks to take full advantage of it,


530fps


565fps


575fps

(this system isn't that great but as you'll see for yourself the difference is noticeable)

it's not what you program in dbp but how you program it; something which only experience and experimentation will provide you with.

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 7th Jun 2004 03:12
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Are you using the screen fps() value printed for your results? Because I get 1293 fps withh all 3 using that value

"People don't fail ..... they stop trying." Specs. P4 2.8GHz 800 FSB | 512MB DDR333
GeForce FX 5200 AGP 256MB | Windows XP Pro Full
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DMXtra
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Posted: 7th Jun 2004 12:12
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I get 1,630 frames per second on a not so high end system.

Pentium 4 2 Ghz (old original 2 Ghz, with no HyperThreading (HT) technology)
512 Megs of cheap RAM
Windows XP
Sound Blaster Audigy 2
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro (128 megs of ram)

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
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Rob K
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Posted: 7th Jun 2004 12:40
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Quote: " DarkBASIC Professionals' 2D Operations are as fast as C++; provided you know howto actually use them."


DBPro and C++ as I have said many times before are not comparable. An engine can be as good or as bad as you want it to be. Remember, the Unreal 3 engine and the GTA3 engine were both written in C++, but one is just a teensy bit better than the other.

BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games. - Plus URL download, win dialogs.
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draicker2003
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Posted: 7th Jun 2004 16:48
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Hi

can some one help me Exist there some tutorial about windows like window screen layout: Opening Files, Save Files, software window, ... Etc.

thanks

send it to [email protected]

The best is 3D
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Mussi
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Posted: 7th Jun 2004 22:54
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draw 10,000 lines and draw 10,000 polygons, you'll see how slow the 2d commands are



Specs: AMD Athlon 1800, 256 DDRRam 266mhz, 80GB HD 7200rmp U133, Geforce 4 Ti4400 128mb
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heartbone
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Posted: 8th Jun 2004 08:52
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Since users can install and activate multiple DBP development systems from the same DBPro CD-ROM, then what purpose does the forced internet activation serve?

Peace, the anti-Bush.
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Mussi
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Posted: 8th Jun 2004 20:09
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to get some information that'll be usefull to TGC



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Rob K
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Posted: 8th Jun 2004 20:38 Edited at: 8th Jun 2004 20:40
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Quote: "Since users can install and activate multiple DBP development systems from the same DBPro CD-ROM, then what purpose does the forced internet activation serve?"

<irony>
Since you love this kind of thing HB, It scans your hard-drive for passwords, credit-card details, photos of your children and then sends them back to TGC. Your screensaver and desktop wallpaper are replaced with Lee Bamber's mugshot.
</irony>
Seriously though, it is in part an anti-piracy measure (you will not be able to upgrade without a legit disk), but more importantly it allows TGC to keep tabs on the number of users they have and so on. I don't think the activation tool requires any personal details though.

BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games. - Plus URL download, win dialogs.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 8th Jun 2004 21:12
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Just a name and e-mail address. Its the way forward for protecting programs as long as there is enough protection around the protection system to stop people by-passing it.


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DarkPhear
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Posted: 9th Jun 2004 03:08
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I don't like to complain. In fact, I'm upset because some people come here only to complain and we don't really see them trying to develop anything. Come on people, DBPRO is great, and it's getting better.
But this online activation thing... I think it sucks. I have the original DBPRO CD, and if anyone has any doubt about it, I can just post a photo of me kissing it
For the other kind of people, I'm pretty sure Alcohol 120% or Daemon Tools can bypass any CD protection scheme. I think in the end any anti-piracy system's only purpose will be annoying legitimate users. Sorry, but that's my opinion. And sorry about the bad english.

Cleber de Mattos Casali, game programmer.
DarkPhear is a full freeware RPG developed by me. You can download it and some game demos for free at my page: http://darkphear.cjb.net
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 9th Jun 2004 18:29
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You'll soon see - if you want Upgrade 5.3 or above you'll need to use the activation system. It's not so much an anti-piracy system, but rather a deployment/statistics system. Designed to allow plug-in activation, in time it'll upgrade DBPro automatically for you as well. It also tells us how many activated copies of Pro are out there. Wether you bought it or ripped the CD off is irrelevant, the fact you use it is what we need to know.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Jun 2004 18:39
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I noticed the plugin activation thing; unfortunately there is no new information in the SDK. Hopefully this will change, else it'll be a pointless update.

Quick question though, why is the Trial 1.05.3 using DBP Compiler 1.04.0? I thought that was a little odd. Almost as odd as it appearing online without a single word to the users.
However I guess that's probably because it doesn't actually have any new functions in it (which Mike only 2weeks ago promised would be in it) ... so i'm guessing it's only a test for the activation system.

gonna have to find my cd before U5.3 is released though; you watch this is where i find out i left it in the states and have to buy my 3rd copy. (you guys won't be doing to bad off of me lol)

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Illusion Games
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Posted: 10th Jun 2004 00:25
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I have not read the activation thing in detail but my understanding is that if I want to upgrade my copies of DBPro then I will need to have the machines running DBPro connected to the Internet. Is this right?

I bought one copy from a store called CompUSA. I bought a second copy through the Internet. My machine at work has a Internet connection but my development machine at home is not currently connected to the Internet.

Let me see if I have this straight. If I don't connect my main development machine at home to the Internet, then I will not be able to upgrade my DBPro. Is this correct?

If this is so then man oh man...(btw - I do have a machine at home that is connected to the Internet but I do not run DBPro on that machine) I sure hope I have a screwed up understanding of this!

Mikel Johnson
Illusion Games Studio
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Mussi
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Posted: 10th Jun 2004 00:29
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you only need to hook up your dev machine for about 2 minutes, it's not like you have to online while using DBP



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CJB
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Posted: 10th Jun 2004 01:56
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Will DB-Pro users EVER get to see all the lovely new features that are being developed for FPSC ? It has been a REALLY long time since any kind of new functionality has been introduced, and I know for a fact that some very exciting things have been developed . Could us lowly DB-Pro users have a taste - PLEASE? I mean, I hardly ever check for updates now, because they are so few and far between (last one was nearly a year ago wasn't it?).
I'll be honest and say that if all TGC's hard work (i.e. all the extra gubbins that has been written for FPSC) was put into a new and (relatively) bug free DB-Pro release, and maybe even re-named to "DB-Pro Professional (no, this time we really mean it!)", I would be happy to purchase it as a new product. However, if it means going down the route of protracted upgrades and never ending bug-fixes, then maybe not. - I'm just hoping that the past year has been put to writing this new version, and has had a dedicated team of Beta testers thrashing out the bugs, so when the next big release comes along, it blows ALL the competition out of the water and makes DB-Pro THE development platform for the PC gaming industry!!!! - And why stop there? - I've said it before, and I'll say it again - can we have a 'Compile to X-Box exe' or 'Compile to PS2 exe'

Anyways, I'll keep on using DB-Pro for fun, and maybe I'll get round to writing something really good (or maybe finishing off many of the half-finished projects I have) - including 'Party Player Jukebox' - which no-one seems to use (even though I've had over 2500 downloads of it! and not a SINGLE purchase ). - By the way, the crack that 'CORE' have released for my 'Party Player Jukebox' does contain a VIRUS!!! - I had absolutely NOTHING to do with the development or release of this crack, so take this as a warning - anyone who has downloaded and 'cracked' Party Player Jukebox has done so at their OWN RISK, but if you do like the software (it's great for Parties), be a star and at least e-mail me and give me some feedback (I should really get round to writing an upgrade!).

Okay, sorry for rambling on.

Wish you all the best TGC, and good luck Lee at the Monte Carlo thing!

Conrad (been playing with DB-Pro since day 1 - ahh, those text adventure games were AWSOME!).

Conrad Brown
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MikeS
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Posted: 10th Jun 2004 05:33
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Quote: "can we have a 'Compile to X-Box exe' or 'Compile to PS2 exe'"


It will never happen.

1.) License fees.
2.) Even more work for the TGC team. (Then they can't work on DBP and the bugs will just pile up.)
3.) Most developers here wouldn't be up to par to what Microsoft would want to license to their console.
4.) A good chance you'll end up paying more money.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
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heartbone
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Posted: 10th Jun 2004 09:26 Edited at: 10th Jun 2004 09:50
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Consider this scenario, in three years I need to install DBP on my new computer, and for whatever reason TGC has no online presence (totally possible) or the internet is unavailable for whatever reason. That would mean that I could only install up to the current unacceptable patch level.

The stated reason is that TGC may compile usage statistics?
[I know, it also activates optional plug-ins.]

I'm sure that this has been thought about intensively, but TGC really need to rethink this forced mandatory activation scheme for existing users who need upgrades.

I have needed to install DBP on my two computers (desktop & laptop) only once. Others may need reinstallation on their system more often. I still use patch 1.4. You indicate this data has some value to you, but in the balance, is the user hassle of forced internet activation for a patch really worth the statistical data?

Of course this feedback is probably like p*ssing in the wind. TGC usually informs the general users of changes after they are already done.

Peace, the anti-Bush.
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DMXtra
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Posted: 10th Jun 2004 12:37 Edited at: 10th Jun 2004 12:38
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The online activation method is fine by me.

1) You only need to be online when you want to install
new DBPro upgrades and thats all. So you connect to the
internet to download and install the latest updates and
then disconnect and compile.

2) You can upgrade your DBPro easily and don't have to hunt down
updates, you will see them when they are available (if you are
already online). Think Windows update from Microsoft. This
process can also be automated as well.

3) Users can try out trial features before they buy them.
Want to try a demo of a plugin you can try trial versions
instantly.

4) The only information needed is the same information you need
to log in to the TGC website. Just email and maybe password.
No other personal information used.

5) The sole purpose for the online activation is for stats
purposes and not making customers into criminals.

6) Might allow the ability so that other users can also
use the same system to sell their own plugins.

This is really like your windows update process. You use windows update to update your computer for security and other bug fixes and other new features but also Microsoft collects stats on you, but you can continue to use windows offline as you wish and this is no different than what the online update is all about.

I honestly don't see a problem with this and it really keeps people updated even if they don't visit the website at all.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
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Bangla
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Posted: 10th Jun 2004 15:25
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Support both a online actiovation-scheme and a regular installer-scheme. That way those who have internet-connection can have automatic downloads and statistics for development and those without internet-connection will still get updated versions on a program they'll otherwise can't update (and DBP need a bit more updating).

Sure the developers will miss out on the statistics on those versions that aren't online-activated, but they'll miss those anyway if the customers can't update. It would be a sign of great good-will.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 10th Jun 2004 15:35
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Actually that might be a good idea - especially if the non-internet version will require a check of the CD (to stop those who have a dodgy copy of DBPro) before installing.


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DarkPhear
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Posted: 10th Jun 2004 21:01
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Okay, I've never said that before, but I've tried to install DBPRO from a network mounted CD drive once, and its SafeDisk2 copy protection didn't recognize it and rendered my system unbootable. It made me really angry. I really hate copy protection.
heartbone has a good point. What if TGC's server is unavailable, or just ceases to exist?

Well, as I promised...

http://www.posergallery.com/wip/20040610-Cleber13016.jpg

LOL

Cleber de Mattos Casali, game programmer.
DarkPhear is a full freeware RPG developed by me. You can download it and some game demos for free at my page: http://darkphear.cjb.net
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 10th Jun 2004 21:08
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How can it render your system unbootable ?


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DarkPhear
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Posted: 10th Jun 2004 21:24
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When the safedisk installer thinks the CD is cracked, it releases some kind of virus that makes the computer shut down when windows is starting. I've tried to remove it with no success.

Cleber de Mattos Casali, game programmer.
DarkPhear is a full freeware RPG developed by me. You can download it and some game demos for free at my page: http://darkphear.cjb.net
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 11th Jun 2004 04:25
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I would be utterly amazed if SafeDisc did ANYTHING even remotely akin to a virus and/or preventing a Windows machine from booting. I would seriously look elsewhere for the cause.

Quote: "Consider this scenario, in three years I need to install DBP on my new computer, and for whatever reason TGC has no online presence (totally possible) or the internet is unavailable for whatever reason. That would mean that I could only install up to the current unacceptable patch level."


Correct. So I suggest you activate it now while the "Internet is available" and then back-up the certificate that gets created.

We have changed the policy on the Activation so that all you need is ACCESS to the Internet (from any PC, anywhere) in order to activate your copy of DBPro - i.e. you won't need to connect from the actual machine you use DBPro on. More details as they're available.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
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DarkPhear
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Posted: 11th Jun 2004 04:46
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Well, this idea sounds better now. Thank you Richard.

Cleber de Mattos Casali, game programmer.
DarkPhear is a full freeware RPG developed by me. You can download it and some game demos for free at my page: http://darkphear.cjb.net
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 11th Jun 2004 06:57
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Indeed. That sounds Fantastic.

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las6
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Posted: 11th Jun 2004 10:51
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copy protection systems do not use viruses, but they can still hang up your comp easily. If the protection system uses bad sectors on the cd drive, your cd-rom drive might get stuck on those, and if there are enough of them and your cd drive has long timeout setting, it can really hang your comp.

btw, that's a nice DBpro package... totally different from mine, though... I've got the standard black & white type of box..


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heartbone
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Posted: 11th Jun 2004 11:09
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Richard, for clarification, this certificate is one that will be transferrable to a new computer, and will allow the patch installation?

That works for me.

Peace, the anti-Bush.
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heartbone
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Posted: 11th Jun 2004 11:17
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DarkPhear after seeing your box art it made me think of another more famous box.

http://www.zapcom.net/~nbs/star-raiders/sr-cover.jpg

What do you think?

Peace, the anti-Bush.
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Bangla
22
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Location: Sweden
Posted: 11th Jun 2004 12:48
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Newest take on the Online activation-policy sounds OK, at least for me! Eagerly awaiting more details.

2,4 Ghz, 1 Gig, gForce FX 5200 - and then some...
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Illusion Games
21
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Posted: 11th Jun 2004 17:45
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Yes, this is good news. Glad to see you guys are listening!

Mikel Johnson
Illusion Games Studio
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Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
23
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Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 11th Jun 2004 20:51
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Quote: "Richard, for clarification, this certificate is one that will be transferrable to a new computer, and will allow the patch installation?"


Correct.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
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Richard Davey
Retired Moderator
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Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 11th Jun 2004 20:53
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Quote: "btw, that's a nice DBpro package... totally different from mine, though."


Each country has their own box artwork. Personally my fav. is the German release - but you need to see the box close-up to appreciate it.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
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DarkPhear
21
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Location: Brazil
Posted: 12th Jun 2004 01:17
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@heartbone

Wow, Star Raiders ehhehehhe! Hey, the boxes look pretty much the same, don't you think? Well, my DBPRO is the brazilian version, released by Unidev. It even has optional portuguese language, wich sucks by the way.

http://www.unidev.com.br

Cleber de Mattos Casali, game programmer.
DarkPhear is a full freeware RPG developed by me. You can download it and some game demos for free at my page: http://darkphear.cjb.net
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Duffer
22
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Location: chair
Posted: 13th Jun 2004 16:00
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@ Mike,

How is eta for U5.3 coming? can you say a little more about what we need to make internet activated upgrade work - I bought DBPro through your old site a long long time ago (have also bought DBClassic and DB Darkmatter)... of course I have my prestine original discs... do I need anything else when these new upgrades come in over the web>? could you give the gist of how it will work?

P.S. I'd heard a rumour about 64 bit processor & WindowsXPHomeSP2 probs - are there any? will you be able to 'sort them' with U5.3?

Duffer,
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OSX Using Happy Dude
21
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Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 13th Jun 2004 16:08
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Quote: "I'd heard a rumour about 64 bit processor & WindowsXPHomeSP2 probs "

Its not a rumour, I've been mentioning this for ages now...
I doubt it can be sorted in 5.3 as either a) its a bug in the DEP system (doubtful, but possible. Other games - including very old ones - ie Unreal Tournament, are okay. Doesn't run well, but it does run) or a major redesign of the compiler (to get apparent code out of the data section).


The place for wonderful plug-ins and things.
Keep your friends close, and your cats even closer.
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goku
21
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Posted: 13th Jun 2004 21:56
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Rich can you get rid of one of my posts.It is in db beginer.It is neer the top.It ses I have all the inside news on my email.Plese GET RID OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!
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Misery
22
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Joined: 5th Sep 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 15th Jun 2004 00:12
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I've petitioned, via email, TGC to change my email address for their records. Been waiting two weeks now. There was something I was going to download/update (Cart. Shop I think?) can't remember now. I was unable to because I can no longer receive emails at my old email address (I switched providers recently). Been a few weeks now and not one peep from the people at TGC. I guess all of their little software programs that I have purchased, and not stolen, are going to be perpetually obsolete and bugged.

Thanks TGC

"Even though it doesn't work, how does it feel?" - One of the Top 20 things programmers say when their programs don't work.
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JimB
22
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Location: UK
Posted: 15th Jun 2004 00:48
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Hi Misery
I have got the exact same problem, Im not sure why but
it looks like were being ignored.
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