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Geek Culture / Arafat dead

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 00:49
RIP Arafat. why cant we have a leader who people will mourn rather than cheer the death of?

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 01:30
Because Tony 'Grinning Jackanape' Blair isn't dead yet...

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 01:37
haha... I'll have to remember that

Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 02:02
and why would u mourn blairs death?

Phaelax
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 02:27
Didn't he give up his office position in support of the US iraq invasion? or something like that, I forget what exactly it was about.

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Ian T
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 02:42
People are mourning him. Others are cheering his death. I'd be interested to know how Tony Blair and his evil nazi regime organized this global hatred of Afrat seeing as he's been despised by the people that despise him today for decades.

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David T
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 02:56
I can see this rapidly becoming a flamewar, but I'll add my 0.001 pence (2 cents).

It's a sad thing Arafat is dead. He was a world leader, that fought for the independance of his people when they were forcibly moved from Palestine, their home to make way for a new Jewish state.

The fact that there's still fighting today in teh Middle East is a sad thing but it's testament to the fact that the Palestinians haven't given up hope yet. They deserve and equal share of that country, and I think it's unfair the way that the Allies took it off them.

But anyway, RIP Yasser Arafat.

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Chris K
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 03:05
It is a very unfortunate event.

I was pretty pro Palestine in this whole situation. Some of the stuff Israel has done is outrageous.
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 16:14
wow- nice support, until last night i thought i was the only one on palestines side. In the media everything seems so pro-israel and anti-palestine.

Wiggett
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 17:52
who cares.

David T
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 17:53
The Palestinians?

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Wiggett
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 17:57
they don't count.



[not a racist remark, no one counts but me.]

David T
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 18:10
Or me.



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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 19:09
Personally whilst I sympathise greatly with the Palastinian position politically and the encumberances their people have carried since the British bretrayal I also think that the Jews had to be put somewhere... A delima indeed, so I look at the people instead when I make my own personal decision as to who is most deserving...

If you ask a Palastinian child on the West Bank why he hates Jews the answer will be "because he smells", likewise ask the childs parents and you will see where they get it from.

Is this a simple peoples way of expressing theirselves or is it, more likely, racial prejudice?

The exact same thing can also be said of the Jews.

Therefor I consider both nations ill equipped to be part of the modern world and best left to the ravages of their own political indescretions.

When they are ready to embrace peace more than they are ready to embrace hated, like in the case of England v's Ireland, then the foundation will be there to start sorting the problem out. There's still a long way to go between my two parent-nations, but at least we're not blowing each other up now...

Both sides have to want peace more than hatred, then it will be time.


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Gir
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Posted: 12th Nov 2004 20:05
Cant help but find myself on the side of the Palastinions (spelling?), to have somone say "Right we are gonna put a load of ppl in your country and change its name, wait it gets better, so you guys are gonna have to leave" kinda gets to me.

I'm makin' a cake...
flibX0r
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 00:00
...and then we're gonna put jews-only roads all through the remaining 22% or the original country and make you wait all day to cross a road. And we won't even give you the measly 22% you could live with. And then with the help of the american media we'll make your entire country appear to be terrorists...

sorry, bit of a rant, but i think the whole situation is just unbelievably stupid


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Mx5 kris
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 00:15
and then the us will bomb europe..............j/k


Really, I don't really care. Just another person. That ruled something.

Manticore Night
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 01:21
I think that arafat was cool, he's that german communist guy, right. Fact is, Arafat is just a person, no more, no less, and we should morn if anyone dies.

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
David T
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 01:26
This is a flamebait already? It hasn't even got going...

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Jimmy
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 01:27
FLAME FLAMER FLAME

AraFAT FALMEr.!!2

There.


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Van B
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 01:32
Damn, so many famous people dying, it brings a tear to my eye...

...whenever it's not Peter Andre.

Now, why don't we start a dead pool? - if your named celebrity dies, you get a free copy of FPSC!. Rich will go for that, surely . We had one at the last place I worked, and despite being fairly sick - it's about as strategic as gambling can possibly get.


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David T
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 01:38
Quote: "it's about as strategic as gambling can possibly get."


LMAO! So true

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 01:58
Quote: "Jews had to be put somewhere"

so put them in the middle of the region where the people will least get on with them... the Islamic lands of the middle east... sigh... why is it that everything the americans do is to get at us?

I put "RIP arafat" and a cartoon drawing of him on the whiteboard... this girl in my class screwed at me really bad. shows how bad the media takes israel's side. anyway, i pwned her, shame, since i thought we got on so well together.

David T
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 02:08
Quote: " i pwned her, shame, since i thought we got on so well together."


another great quote

I do think the media is heavily pro-Isreal biased.The palestinians were kicked out of their country and are called terrorists for attacking those who took their freedom.

People took over Kuwait too - and the Gulf War started

Okay so its a dodgy comparison but it gets the message across.

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Indian Homie G
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 02:12
GO PALESTINE!

Seriously, I really hope they get independence, it will save lots and lots of lives.. and it was theirs in the first place .

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 02:30
So now we have everyone's views on Palestine v's Israel, what about that other great act of British treachery? Kashmir... ?

The way I see things we'll only get peace in the world by doing one of two things:

A) Agree to all plees for seperatism and devolution: including the Bask region of Spain; Cornwall from England; Chechnya from the Soviet Union; Grant independance to the new states of West Bank; Gaza Strip; Kashmir; East Timor; and Huntingdonshire.

B) Forget about the growing seperatist movements and start forging together to make 1 nation. Embrace Europe, expand it to include tertiarry territories currently on the fringe, then amalgamate all UN nations into the European superstate, and finaly let the Japs in to finish off the job so the whole world can live as one happy family.

Although perhaps not as extreme both of these scenario's are currently playing out in the world today. Personally I favour option B as the political unification of the world into a single democracy of proportional representation based upon the wishes of the 1% financial elite I consider to be a less violent future than the ever increasing number of seperatist movements willing to take up arms.

Unfortunately at the point where option B looks likely to expand to sufficient size to envelope the world I suspect it will create a hardline communist backlash that envelopes the world and plunges us into a third dark age of conflict.

Then again, I never said I was Nostrodame...


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David T
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 02:36
Quote: "Cornwall from England;"


lol, that will be the day

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Chris K
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 02:48
There's no one who speaks Cornish anymore.

Very sad.
Pricey
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 02:56
Arrr, I wants me a Cornish Pasty



Neil19533
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 03:04
i belive it is a very bad thing and it will cause the palastinions to increase there attacks on the jews because if you watch the news you can see an awful lot of ethigys.

Any spelling mistakes are totally In tensional.
DaedalusX
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 03:08
Arafat has commited terrorist acts in the past. So bush and blairs little war on terror has become even more ironic and hypocritical if they are 'so deeply saddened' by arafats death. Personaly i think he was a frail old man that was held by the israelies for 3 years and proabably better off he died as being held by his swarn enemies for 3 yrs proabably drove the guy nuts

VOTE UKIP!!

Daedalus
Chris K
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 03:28
UKIP? Are you kidding me?

Just heard on the news that Bush said he would re-enter the peace process. Said something like "US capitol will be used to set up a working democracy in Palestine"
David T
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 03:47
Quote: "Said something like "US capitol will be used to set up a working democracy in Palestine" "


Ah yes, democracy, that great cure-all

For a flamebait this is decidedly calm

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bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 04:33
Har har, US Capital... that's funny..

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 13th Nov 2004 04:37
Quote: "I do think the media is heavily pro-Isreal biased.The palestinians were kicked out of their country and are called terrorists for attacking those who took their freedom.

People took over Kuwait too - and the Gulf War started

Okay so its a dodgy comparison but it gets the message across."


well just told her "if someone came and took half of england from us, would we not fight for it back?"

Now you mention it, im pretty glad that arafat died now and not in a few yrs time. he died now, meaning he died honourably, and on a good note, whereas in a few yrs time it may have been he was hiding in a hole somewhere while US troops look for palestines WMD's (sound familiar). come on, if it was going to be anywhere, it would have HAD to be palestine next.

Andy Igoe
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 07:23
Quote: "it would have HAD to be palestine next."

Bush and Blair are currently discussing Iran.

A lot of Iraq's neighbours are very much in the spot light now, but for some reason the religious extremist is now targetting Iran.

I suspect it's because it sounds similar to Iraq and therefor very easy to sell the idea to Americans.


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Ian T
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 07:27 Edited at: 14th Nov 2004 07:28
Quote: " the religious extremist is now targetting Iran."


I notice you have no evidence whatsoever...

Furthermore, at his press conference he clearly stated he would not impose his religion on the world or America-- and before you mention it, no homosexual marraige ban has been put forward-- and he has been true to that statement so far.

Ashcroft, the most 'extremist' man on Bush's cabenit, has been replaced with a moderate republican.

And from what I've read, the USA has been among the more lenient when it comes to Iran; other countries are calling for more investigation action.

And he is supporting plans for a Palestinian state, now more than ever that Afrat is dead, whose brutal methods of warfare were most certainly not helping on the diplomacy front.

To summarize your label of him as a religious extremist has no factual backing.

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Oneka
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 07:42
hmm...isnt the area that israel is now their land anyway?
Quote: "The birthplace of the Jewish people is the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel). There, a significant part of the nations long history was enacted, of which the first thousand years are recorded in the Bible; there, its cultural, religious and national identity was formed; and there, its physical presence has been maintained through the centuries, even after the majority was forced into exile. During the many years of dispersion, the Jewish people never severed nor forgot its bond with the Land. With the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Jewish independence, lost two thousand years earlier, was renewed.

http://www.israel.org/MFA/Facts%20About%20Israel/History/Facts%20About%20Israel-%20History "


Iam pretty sure that was their land along time ago...what basically happen is like having a friend steal a game of yours and 2 years later you take it back and your friend is saying your stealing it from him when it wasnt his in the first place well just putting in meh 2 cents


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Ian T
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 07:45
Land wars accomplish nothing in the end. If more than one generation passes and the land is still occupied, you just have to give it up-- there are too many claims for too many civilizations all across the globe. I'm fairly certain neither the Jews or the Palestinians were the "original" owners of that land, but if the Palestinians had it for 2000 years, they should bloody well be able to keep it IMO.

However I do not have much info on the situation so I may be leaving out key factors ...

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Oneka
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 07:53 Edited at: 14th Nov 2004 07:53
Well whos to say that the israels didnt have it longer then 2,000 years? people just see as what happened 66 years ago but theres much more to this....I think its a good thing that israel got their country back but I think they shouldnt be fighting over this like they do..but If I live in israel and some person is coming over and bombing us I would want to destroy them....see if israel was the bad guy I think there wouldnt be a Gaza or palastine they probably woulda killed off all the people....and what they are doing is not that it is fighting off the insurgents that are attacking their county


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Neil19533
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 08:45
After World War 1 there was loads of immigrant Jews who fled to Palestine for a place to live, buying and selling the land. The Palestinians thought there British rulers where giving the Jews better treatment so they revolted. This made the British stop immigration of the Jews into Palestine as the Second World War was not far off so they had to secure the Middle Eastern countries.

During the Second World War Britain sent trained Jewish-Palestinians to fight Hitler’s army. Back in palatine the Jews heard about the death camps and ordered the British to scrap the white-paper which controlled immigrants and told them to allow an unlimited amount of Jews into the country. This caused an uprising of the Palestinians and the Jews the retaliated assassinating someone which didn’t do much good.

Any whom the U.N decided to split the county into two, Some for the Jews and some for the Palestinians, but the Palestine’s wanted all of the country and vice versa so allot of fighting took place.

The British at this point didn’t do anything because of the United Nations. And lots of Palestinians left to neighboring countries as the British trained the Jews for modern warfare to fight in the Second World War.

well to sum up the Jews where given to much help because of there persecution in the Second World War and all the countries in the U.N felt sorry for them and the media decided to side with the Jews and start slander campaigns against the Muslims and so nowadays we see on TV that it is not the Jews fault all because they where persecuted. And the Second World War was over 50 years ago and so it is considered as history but the Palestinians still get the bad press and the Jews still get the good.

Any spelling mistakes are totally In tensional.
Andy Igoe
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 09:58
Quote: "To summarize your label of him as a religious extremist has no factual backing."

Other than his own admission, of course.

Forgive me if i'm wrong Mouse but I thought you where American? You didn't know this?

He admits to being, which was it, mormon or some other born again christian cult? One of the side show religious freek groups anyway - the kind that run around reenacting Wako except he's got the worlds largest army instead.

He's a bit too much like King Phillip of Spain for my liking.


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Ian T
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 10:12 Edited at: 14th Nov 2004 10:12
Quote: "Other than his own admission, of course."


I'm not entirely certain but I'll take this as humor, as once again you provide no evidence.

Quote: "You didn't know this?"


I know most people think that. I also know that ignorance spreads far faster than knowledge-- and I examine 'common knowledge' instead of simply accepting it because "everyone else" does.

Quote: "He admits to being, which was it, mormon or some other born again christian cult?"


No, actually, he hasn't, and if you look around I'm sure you'll find it's not so. It's interesting to note that while he makes it clear he's a very religious Christian, he avoids citing any specifics about his beliefs, although I'm fairly certain he's a Catholic, and that's all.

And try to be a bit more respectful of others' beliefs, please. Just because you believe Mormons or other small religious groups to be lunatics doesn't mean they're excempt from basic levels of respect; it is also a great generalization, as you will find upon closer inspection that beliefs vary greatly even within these close-knit social circles. Tolerance is something often preached and seldom practiced, but it does wonderful things when it is-- keep in mind that it does not solely apply to social liberals. I'm probably somewhere around the center, maybe a bit to the left socially, but that doesn't mean I have to treat Mormons, Amish, Satanists, or any other minority religion with disrespect... it accomplishes nothing.

Don't take the above as a warning from a moderator, it's just my opinion.

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 10:24
Quote: "Just because you believe Mormons or other small religious groups to be lunatics doesn't mean they're excempt from basic levels of respect"

I respect the Amish, I respect Christians and I respect Muslims and even Hari Krishna's (sp) but I cannot abide Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses because they, as a whole and without exception, use despicable means to prey on the vulnerable into joining their cult.

They are a bit like a self help group for the spiritually inept, except the price of joining is your social decency and respect for fellow human beings and my rebuttal to that is to show an equal level of disrespect.

Anyone who preaches otherwise has not had their doorstep persistently violated by bible bashing lunatics praying for their salvation, but that's just a matter of time...

I think it is somewhat of an afront for somebody to pray to God on my behalf preaching fantasies of saving my soul by relating my "ignorance of the Lord" to their own pathetic salvation from their retarded state of existence before being saved by a freak show canvasser.

I'd rather have God see me in the light of my own prayers rather than being labelled as a sinner simply because I refuse to buy religion at the door.

So no thank you Mouse, for the reasons I give I would ask you to respect my belief that Mormons and Jehova's are exempt from being shown respect.


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Ian T
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 10:45
Well, as much as I respect Jimmy I cannot honestly argue in defense of the Mormon church or especially the Jehova's Witnesses, knowing the darker side of both their history, so I'll have to leave it at that .

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Gir
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Posted: 14th Nov 2004 22:34
I went out with a Jehova's Witness. Man those ppl get to me, they really messed up her head. She is trying to get out of it, but when they shun you for almost anything and are willing to almost exile their own children if they do not believe is totally wrong.

Using fear as a weapon is not they way i think God, if there is such a thing, would go about things.

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 17th Nov 2004 01:08
i heard a stat the other day saying 80% of jews were anti-zionist and hated bush for supporting Israel.

when my step-dad heard aboutt this he told me how all his jewish friends reffer to "us" and "them", "us" being antizionist-jews and "them" being zionist-jews.

Lrkr
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Posted: 17th Nov 2004 23:22 Edited at: 19th Nov 2004 02:17
Quote: "i heard a stat the other day saying 80% of jews were anti-zionist and hated bush for supporting Israel.

when my step-dad heard aboutt this he told me how all his jewish friends reffer to "us" and "them", "us" being antizionist-jews and "them" being zionist-jews."


I am Jewish (by descent anyway). Never heard of it. I mean yeah, 80% American Jews voted for Kerry, but for totally unrelated reasons. The 20% that did vote for Bush, did it solely on the grounds of Bush supporting Israel.

This whole thread just amazes me to no end. Don't any of you guys have friends or relatives in Israel who can tell you things the way they really are? Arafat is Hitler reincarnate. For all these years, he'd been waging a war against women, children and babies and his hands are covered in innocent blood. He didn't want a "Palestinian state", he just wanted Israel with all its citizens gone, period. Thank God he pocketed most of the "aid" he got from Europe instead of using it to finance more terrorist acts. I don't very often say it about the deceased, but I'm relieved to see him gone and I hope he went to the place he deserves to be. And no, I didn't get it from media, I hardly ever read the news - don't have this kind of time... I do however talk to Israelis.
bitJericho
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Posted: 17th Nov 2004 23:27
how can you trust what the "isreali's" are telling you when they are the enemy of arafat?

I don't know much about this issue.. but what I mean is, don't you think you should be listening to what all sides have to say about arafat, rather than just the people who think he was evil?

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Lrkr
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 04:32
Quote: "how can you trust what the "isreali's" are telling you when they are the enemy of arafat?

I don't know much about this issue.. but what I mean is, don't you think you should be listening to what all sides have to say about arafat, rather than just the people who think he was evil?"


Being Jewish, I have very little choice who to listen to... I cannot listen to people who want to eradicate my nation and their state. Besides, these people have good reason to be "enemies of Arafat"... their children have died. I've heard some horror stories...

Anyway, here are two links to his bio's that someone gave me... apparently it's hard to find a bio of Arafat that would be just pure facts - all of them are biased one way or another. At least, one of the bios has links to other articles...

http://nobelprize.org/peace/laureates/1994/arafat-bio.html

http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/reports/Yassir_Arafat3_1929-2004.asp

Quote: "In July 2000, U.S. president Bill Clinton attempted to keep the Oslo Accords viable by convening a summit at Camp David between Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak. There, Barak offered Arafat a Palestinian state in Gaza and 92% of the West Bank, and a capital in East Jerusalem ¯ the most generous offer ever from an Israeli government. Yassir Arafat rejected the offer and ended negotiations without a counteroffer. As American envoy Dennis Ross concluded, 'Arafat could not accept Camp David... because when the conflict ends, the cause that defines Arafat also ends.' "

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