WOW! A whole thread that was intended to be an intellectual debate between Mouse and I has devalued into a cesspool of name-calling and fact-bending! I suppose I'm not really all that surprised. I wish I'd seen this thread earlier today so I wasn't forced to write a long post here, but I didn't, so get your bifocals out. You all know how much I love to quote, and there's so much I want to comment on! Here we go:
To Mouse's first post:
Quote: "You attack Bush over not looking into alternitive fuel sources, but where Clinton failed to do anything about the fuel problem, Bush has invested significantly in research into hydrogen energy."
Bush hasn't really invested anything. During his first term, far leftie liberal members of the hill pushed to keep in act the EPA and former secretary of energy's bills that allotted funding to alternative fuel resources. But I will most certainly credit Bush for signing on the re-routing of most of those funds to Hydrogen energy, because lets face it, no one wants to drive a solar-powered Lotus.
Quote: "Why should the world's opinion of us be important in issues like this at all? Unless it sparks another war, our popularity should not be a factor whatsoever in deciding whether a politically incorrect action, or any action, is right or wrong."
Trade and diplomacy mostly. If popular world opinion of the United States stoops too low, other nations will be less likely to conduct business with us. It happened before, when some European nations refused to trade with the US because of our dis-association (for the most part) from European affairs during the early days of WWII. It could most certainly happen again
Quote: "Isn't it rather ridiculous to assume our strategists didn't predict that the Iraq war would hinder rather than help our current oil situation? And if the war was for oil, wouldn't we have started setting up the system to export it already? We have not siezed a drop of oil from the country and the forces currently in power, despite heavy US involvement, have made it clear it's going to stay that way."
Enter Halliburton. No, I'm not going to talk about Dick Cheney, I'm not one for conspiracy theories (usually). But Halliburton *does*, as I'm sure you all know, have a rather large team of experts in Iraq, and their airfare was paid for the by Pentagon. Their job: Calculate the most effective method of exporting Iraqi oil when the conflict is done. This is, I should add, something that Halliburton is rather proud of, that they were chosen to be the group that handles the Iraqi crude. The strategists in Washington, however, assumed that the war would only last a few days and didn't realize the Iraqi citizenry would resist the US at all costs.
Quote: "Since when was 'Republican' a bad word? You use it like 'convict' or something. "
Republicans do it just as much. Limp-wristed, weak-spined, these are but two examples of typical Republican attacks on Liberals such as myself
And now for the rest of you:
Quote: "If General George Patton were alive and President of the USA, this would be his Fireside Speech:"
You left out the part where he says "And when you're standing in the goo that used to be your friend..." and also, in your speech, he should have pistol-whipped a soldier
That's my favourite part, hehe
Quote: "I dont get it, people are always saying that, but do they think he has a little lever in his office that he can control the economy with?"
What's the President's first job when he steps into office? Hire a secretorial staff. And what does said secretorial staff primarily do? Allocate funds. Also, it is historically common that Republican Presidents drive up very lofty bills.
Quote: "O, did the world forget 911? our economy had to recover from that, also we had to recover our economy from the clinton administration."
I don't quite understand how the Republican party was able to twist this during the election, but, FACT:
Clinton was left with a deficit of over
1 trillion dollars (that's right, trillion, not billion) from the Reagan (Star Wars) and 1st Bush (Iraq pt. 1) administrations. By 1996 he had reduced that amount to $12 Billion, and by 1998 the United States had a 46 Billion dollar surplus to play with. When he left office, know how much was left in the national savings account? 377 Billion. And do you know how long it took President Bush to irradicate that Surplus and put as back into the red? We officially went red again on December 29th, 2001... during Bush's first year in office. Ouch! That smarts!
Quote: "And george bush is an excelent public speaker"
So true! Here's a few snippets of his greatest speeches! Please note that I'm quoting word for word and letter for letter:
Quote: "He has certainly earned a reputation as a fantastic mayor, because the results speak for themselves. I mean, New York's a safer place for him to be."
- On Rudy Giuliani; The Edge with Paula Zahn; May 18th, 2000
Quote: "And, most importantly, Alma Powell, secretary of Colin Powell, is with us."
- Washington, D.C.; January 30th, 2003
Quote: "Our priorities is our faith."
- Greensboro, North Carolina; October 10th, 2000
And my personal favourite:
Quote: "[Waves Hello.]"
- To the blind musician Stevie Wonder; Washington, D.C.; March 6th, 2002
Moving on...
Quote: "you have been brainwashed. This whole 'american dream' thing is a load of crap."
Here here!
Quote: "The problem with you stupid democrats is that your all complete jerks, who have no pride in being American"
THAT is what I LOVE! Republicans always like to make it seem as though just because we hate those in power we also hate the United States... someone explain to me, right now, how that makes any sense!
Quote: "I am talking about stopping 10,000 black Americans voting. The great majority of whom would have voted democrat."
This is very, very true. People in several congressional districts in Florida were halted from voting for "criminal indescrepencies" such as parking tickets, traffic violations, and housing fines. Immediately before Bush's inauguration, the Senate dismissed almost every black representative who came before the house to contest the mis-counting of Black votes in Florida and Tennessee. Do your homework before arguing with this!
Quote: "that includes you "Eric T", you haven't been a very good example"
When I have a question about "PrOn" Eric is the guy I go to for answers! Keep up the good work Eric!
Quote: "i'm just wondering, since the vast majority of the news stations in the USA have a extremely negative view of bush how come i've never heard of this?"
What news channels have you been watching? Do you even own a television?!?
Quote: "Ive taken a history course, what is this! Maybe everybody here should just go and create their own little country see how it turns out, seeing that everybody is Anti-American, and Anti-organized countries for that sake! If you hate America so much, live somewhere else then!"
Sorry Gil, but... wth? I've said it once, I'll say it a million times: I love living in the United States and I'm proud to be a citizen of this nation. But being a responsible citizen within a Republic (no, the united states IS NOT a democracy, look it up) means that I'm given the right to contest those in power and desire the institution of policies that I, as a citizen, request. It's why we vote, and when someone rigs elections to gain political ground, it is unfair to me, a constituent of this great nation, and to all the other people of the United States.
I close with a note on Bush's election-rigging, for those of you who haven't heard about this yet, and/ or for those of you who ride the short bus:
In the first election, Al Gore won by every legitimate count of the polls. Bush HAD, in fact, enrolled the votes of dead people and even household pets came out to show their support for him, and this is fact. There are an incredible number of links to the Bestheda and the Bush Campaign, where Bestheda number fixing people used scare tactics to force a Cuban vote ("Looking for Fidel"; documentary film, 2003). Then of course there's Jeb Bush, which is something I shouldn't have to get into. Bush's Campaign Manager for the first election also happened to be a ballot manager in (hum-di-di-dum-di-di-dum!) FLORIDA. So yes, the first election was rigged.
In the SECOND election, there is also evidence of election rigging... not that Bush had to rig it, because even I can admit he would have won anyway even if he hadn't. In one voting district in Ohio, 1,327 voted for Bush. And how many people were actually living in said district? 629. When some of the people in this district were interviewed, they surprisingly reported that they'd in fact voted for Kerry. How strange! And where did I get this data? J. Kenneth Blackwell, Ohio's Secretary of State, in a CNN interview from this past december. When a coalition of Democrat AND republican peope investigated these claims, they again turned up evidence of deceased individuals and house pets with a full name (like someone naming their dog Tom, then applying their last name) voting for George W. Bush. Similar acts were found in Florida, Mississippi, and New Mexico. Whether Bush himself concocted this scheme, who knows, but the point is these are facts, and whether you wish to acknowledge the truth or simply blind yourself from it in fear of being wrong is entirely up to you.
- Matt Rock
"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
