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Geek Culture / Hillary Clinton bashing the electronic media industry

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 19th Apr 2005 03:09 Edited at: 19th Apr 2005 03:11
Quote: "I dunno where you've heard this but it simply is not true.. If you've probably cause then you're fine.."


I see it on the news all the time, that and it's just how the twisted laws work. If you shoot someone who isn't armed, you go to prison. In Mouse's case, the criminal was armed, so that's a different scenario in that sense. An interesting comment a friend made: "If we're going to have legal guns, we may as well pass legislation that says you can shoot the people who tick you off, especially while driving!" Thought that was funny enough to share with you all. Then again, I bet not many of us would be left in that case. Where I live anyway, everyone thinks they're the best driver in the world, no matter how aweful they drive or how many accidents they've had/ caused.

Quote: "Why would he play Civ 3? The man's living it!"


lol I bet if he did play Civ3 he'd take notes I told my friends the comment I made on here, about the President ordering the bombing of Los Santos... they ordered me to put it on my site Didn't think it was really that funny, but eh.

And I agree with Billy... we're sort of going around in circles a bit. I forgot even how we got on the gun debate, from what started as a Clinton talk, and I'm too lazy to scroll back to find out

- Matt

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Ian T
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Posted: 19th Apr 2005 03:24
Quote: ""If we're going to have legal guns, we may as well pass legislation that says you can shoot the people who tick you off, especially while driving!" Thought that was funny enough to share with you all."


It's completely retarded. There's a little thing called moral and ethical sensibilites that drive most of the people in the world, and a little thing called the law that throws criminals in prison.

And if this was true in the least bit, the murder rate would be high in Texas, where anyone can carry a loaded gun-- but guess what? It's very low.

Quote: "And I agree with Billy... we're sort of going around in circles a bit."


Well it's been solidly proven that the anti gun arguments professed so far are flawed

ionstream
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Posted: 19th Apr 2005 03:42 Edited at: 19th Apr 2005 03:43
http://www.mouseweb.net/goof.JPG

I think that speaks for itself.

Matt Rock
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Posted: 19th Apr 2005 04:33
lol

Is it just me or can Mouse *never* lose an arguement

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Benjamin
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Posted: 19th Apr 2005 04:42
Its just you


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Ian T
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Posted: 19th Apr 2005 08:26
Quote: "
Is it just me or can Mouse *never* lose an arguement "


It's not my fault I'm always completely right about everything

Matt Rock
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Posted: 20th Apr 2005 15:17
lol I more or less meant your persistant refusal to surrender hehe

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Benjamin
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Posted: 21st Apr 2005 02:14
Theres nothing wrong with that. Perseverance is the key to success.


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Ian T
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Posted: 21st Apr 2005 03:06
In case you didn't notice, my previous post was in fact a joke. But, erm, I have to agree with Benjamin here. In this particular case, nobody has observed any flaw in my case, so why in the world would I up and concede?

Ron Erickson
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Posted: 21st Apr 2005 03:24
About a year ago, my home was broken into while me, my wife, and my two kids slept. The guy just took anything that he could grab real quick on the first level of our home while we were upstairs. I have guns in the home. If I had waken, and realized what was going on, the man would be dead. The guy probably had no intention of doing anyone any harm and probably would have ran in confronted, but I would not take that chance. Let me explain why.
A freind of mine has a brother who just recently moved to Texas. He bought a house there. Shortly after they moved in, a guy broke into a house close to theirs. He beat-up the guy that lived there and tied him up. He then raped the guy's wife and daughter right in front of him. Cruel world, eh?
I have no idea what a person's intentions are when they break into my house while I'm sleeping upstairs. For the safety of my family, I'm not taking any chances. If they guy has balls enough to come into my house while I'm sleeping, I have to assume the worst.
There is NO WAY the guy would have ever sued me. He would be dead. Being a registered gun owner, I have the right to protect my family from harm. I would do that without blinking.

WOLF

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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Apr 2005 07:03
I agree 100% with Wolf. We just don't know if the burglar is in it for more than money, jewelry, etc. The burglar could also intend on "getting lucky", if you will, or worse, abduction. Not on my clock.


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Metel Artz
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2005 04:46
sheesh a similair problem happend with mortal kombat thats why the ESRB came in ESRB was formed be keep under age kids from buying or renting t or m rated agme so its really the parents fault for letting there kids buy this stuff not the gaming industry!
Jimmy
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2005 05:02
Well the ESRB must be your mortal enemy.

Let me explain to you a little something about today's generation. The kids these days are complete morons. Due to their pathetic insecurities they have to have something to latch on to and all too often, it's video games. VIOLENT video games. They aren't going to listen to their real parents when they are told not to rent or buy those carnage-filled, mind-numbing games. Manhunt is their daddy now and they'll do ANYTHING daddy says.

Video games turn kids into serial killers, it's a proven fact.

Metel Artz
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2005 05:04
Jimmy
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2005 05:43
Yes, that code box displays your conviction perfectly.

Matt Rock
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 04:11
Wolf... don't take this the wrong way, but it's people like you that make it easy for me to have a problem with gun owners. Often times you don't really think... if you shot him without provokation, and by provokation I do mean him posing a legitimate threat to you and/ or your family (literally firing at you... that's how the law puts it) you would be in prison... I think that's 2nd degree murder. AND you would be charged with assault with a deadly weapon, no matter who the gun is registered to.

I guess I just don't get it... I live in a city with drive by shootings and murder and all that, and the only people I've ever known to own a gun were in gangs, and the only people gangs shoot is people in other gangs, and that's a fact. The world doesn't work like a 1982 movie, where the mohawk & liberty spike gangs rape chicks and mug seniors... real gangs protect the people in their neighborhoods, because those are the people who buy drugs from them. THAT is how it really happens, and that's why no one around here would ever think of owning a gun... there's no need.

Jimmy... I sincerely hope you're being sarcastic there's never been a single legitimate study, ever, that has proven to "make" kids violent... the handful of reports that claim video games cause violence are about as legitimate and factual as "Reefer Madness" from 1938.

Sorry if I sound mean guys, I don't mean to... I'm just frustrated with programming today

- Matt

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Jimmy
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 04:15
My great grandfather died of Reefer Madness

Ron Erickson
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 04:44
Quote: "Wolf... don't take this the wrong way, but it's people like you that make it easy for me to have a problem with gun owners. Often times you don't really think... if you shot him without provokation, and by provokation I do mean him posing a legitimate threat to you and/ or your family (literally firing at you... that's how the law puts it) you would be in prison... I think that's 2nd degree murder. AND you would be charged with assault with a deadly weapon, no matter who the gun is registered to."


Without provocation? The guy is in my house. If he is willing to enter my home while I am there, who knows what he is capable of. Do you think I am going to wait for the guy to shoot at me before I defend my family? How could I defend my family if I am dead? I could care less about any of my personal belongings. I would do ANYTHING to protect my wife and kids though. And no, I would NOT go to jail. It is dark in my home at night. All I would have to say is that I thought I saw a gun in his hand. I don't believe there are too many juries than would convict me of murder for shooting a criminal INSIDE my home. I'd take my chances with that before I would take my chances with him harming my family. Are you married? Do you ahve kids? If not, then I don't expect that you would understand. If you do then that is too bad for them.

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DBAlex
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 04:54
read below for my verdict:




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billy the kid
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 06:48 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2005 06:54
At the very minimum, you could have made sure that was a complete sentence and you spelled her name right.

EDIT:

Wolf - For the sake of your family, I pray that you at least make sure the person is really an intruder and not your son/daughter/wife sleepwalking or something before you start shooting the place up. And please dont tell me "of course I would". People tend not to think clearly in situations like that for a variety of reasons. So no one knows how they would react in that situation until they are in that situation including you. You may do the correct thing, and you may shoot your kid in the head. Hopefully it is not the latter. This goes for all you gun freaks.
Matt Rock
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 07:32
These clinton snippets are getting too popular

I agree with billy whole-heartedly. I'll never understand how the phrase "gun owner" and "safe" can ever be used in the same sentence... far too often I see, on the news, some kid who got into his dad's gun cabinet and blew his pal's head off... or his own head off. Earlier I asked someone to name one positive outcome from guns... shooting burglars isn't an acceptable response

Wolf - I don't have kids, and I'm not married (yet, give it a year or two)... but if you think you can protect your family better than I could merely based on the fact that you own a gun, I'm going to have to disagree. If someone broke into my house and threatened people I cared about, god forbid, and they tried to shoot at me, they better hope to god they kill me... but I wouldn't kill them, because what good am I to my family or myself if I'm in prison. If you shoot someone, you go to jail, unless you did it in self defense... that's the law, and a jury probably wouldn't care what you "thought" you saw if evidence clearly proves he wasn't armed. And let's not forget what Billy just said... I think it's an imparative lesson for people who shoot first and ask questions never... if you "jump the gun" (sorry for the silly pun) in a situation where it's dark and you can't rightly see who or what it is you're shooting at, you're begging for a dead family member, or a prison sentence, or both.

- Matt

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 11:22 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2005 11:24
I guess that means people like Matt Rock have houses that are open for anyone to break in. I mean, let's face it. We know they're too worried about going to jail to protect their own flesh and blood family.

And you live in New York City, right? New York is a small, small thing compared to rest of the normal world. You have what, 4 million people in a city that can barely hold them, right? You wouldn't understand what it's like to be a farmer with a gun, because you've probably never seen a gun---- let alone a farmer, before.

You seriously can't talk about gun owners as crazy individuals, unless you have some decent experience with a gun itself, or have a *gasp* gun owner in your family. That would be like me saying that they shouldn't allow cars on the road that have the ability to drive over 180km/h, because there's a chance the drivers can cause more serious injuries with them. And sure, everyone has heard stories about "so-n-so kid blows pal's head off with gun", but you talk about it as if it happens everyday. I have YET to hear about this happening, and I grew up around guns. Get real.

And if I've offended anyone who has had loved ones injured or killed with a gun, I apologize. But I'm not calling for a ban on knives because idiots use them to stab people. It's ridiculous and not logical.


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Ian T
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 12:53
Echoing Jeku here. The excessive hypocracy and lack of logic is grating on my nerves


Quote: "If someone broke into my house and threatened people I cared about, god forbid, and they tried to shoot at me, they better hope to god they kill me... but I wouldn't kill them, because what good am I to my family or myself if I'm in prison."


Because everyone knows it's better to die in refusal to protect your family, and leave them to be raped/beaten/robbed/any combination of the above, than it is to kill someone to protect them.

Ugh

Ron Erickson
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 13:53 Edited at: 23rd Apr 2005 13:56
Let me clear some things up. My guns are locked up. If I hear a bump in the night, I don't grab my pistol and go downstairs SWAT style. Even since my house was broken into, I still go check out any strange noises unarmed (or sometimes with my martial arts staff ). I agree, there are too many strange coincideces that are much more likely to be happening than someone actually being in my home. I believe this even AFTER it has actually happened to me.
If, however, I happened to be exploring one of those strange bumps in the night, and I was confronted with someone in my home, I would do ANYTHING necessary to protect my family. If that meant beating the guy with my fists... so be it. If I was in the kitchen and ended up with a knife.... so be it. If I ended back upstairs and got a hold of one of my guns... so be it.
I would not be concerened with what the guys intentions are -OR- if I would get in trouble with the law. My first and ONLY concern would be my family's safety (and maybe some stains on the carpet ).

Quote: "I'll never understand how the phrase "gun owner" and "safe" can ever be used in the same sentence... "


Well, apparantly you haven't been around them much. I was probably 6 or 7 years old the first time I fired a rifle. My oldest child is now 4 and in a couple of years I'll take him shooting. I'll teach him the same RESPECT and DANGER of firearms that my father taught me. If you don't have that experience then I don't expect that you would understand. I gaurantee that the kids that you refer to about getting into Dad's gun case are kids that are "sheltered" from the guns. Curiousity is what does it. The solution: solve the curiosity. Teach them about them and what they can do. Show them how EASILY accidents can happen. And most of all, give them and opportunity to shoot at a range every once in a while.

WOLF

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Vindicate
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 14:16
Hi Matt.

Quote: "if you shot him without provokation, and by provokation I do mean him posing a legitimate threat to you and/ or your family (literally firing at you... that's how the law puts it)"

Literally? Wanna bet?
Quote: "If you shoot someone, you go to jail, unless you did it in self defense... that's the law, and a jury probably wouldn't care what you "thought" you saw if evidence clearly proves he wasn't armed."

Evidence of being armed is not a requirement, at least not in New York.

Meet NY Penal Law 35.20, titled "USE OF PHYSICAL FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PREMISES AND IN DEFENSE OF A PERSON IN THE COURSE OF A BURGLARY". Section 3 applies specifically to use of deadly force:
Quote: "A person in possession or control of, or licensed or privileged to be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other person when he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such burglary."

Still have any doubts about whose side the law is on? All states have some variation on this concept. It's also known as the "Castle Doctrine".

Quote: "but it's people like you that make it easy for me to have a problem with gun owners. Often times you don't really think..."


But we do think enough to avoid repeatedly misrepresenting the laws of our own home state. Go figure.
Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2005 17:35
And one more thing to Matt---

Quote: "but it's people like you that make it easy for me to have a problem with gun owners. Often times you don't really think..."


As long as you don't burglarize then you have nothing to worry about


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 06:45
First of all, yes, I have seen a gun, yes, I did fire one once (in college for a class), and yes, there is a gun owner in my family... or at least, there was. He's in prison right now, has been since I was a little kid (I can't even remember what he looks like), because he shot someone that was in his back yard. Granted, he wasn't a licensed gun owner, but still I think that should speak for himself. He's sitting in Elmira State Prison and won't be released for another year. and Vindicate, that happened in Brooklyn maybe an hour and a half from here. And because I'm such a pain in the rear, I went a few houses down to talk to one of my neighbors, Kevin Heslin, a police officer with the BPD, and HE told me that if you shoot someone that's breaking into your home, and they don't appear to be armed or pose a risk to harm you, you will go to jail. Seeing as how he's a New York Police officer, I think he probably knows the law better than you do.

Let's get down to it now... I'm taking off the kiddy gloves because this arguement is getting rediculous and Vindicate got me riled up with what he said, which apparently isn't true since I have a real life police officer who told me just now that it wasn't (he say's "castle doctrine" isn't something he's heard before, I might add). Where I live, whenever you see a house broken into and some idiot with a shotgun protecting their turf on the news, both of them, the criminal and the gun nut, go to prison. In fact, in my twenty five years of life, never have I heard of a New Yorker protecting their home and not getting at least arrested for it. When you use violence against someone, you get charged just as they would for asserting violence on you. That's a fact, it's as simple as that. And if you don't have respect for the law, if you don't think the police are necessary and you can vigilantly protect your family yourself, then I sincerely hope you're never in a situation like that, because I'm willing to bet just about anything that under the pressure, 9 out of 10 of you will freeze like a rabbit in headlights... and where a cop could have saved your life and the lives of your family, you will have cost them, by being a moron who runs off to the rifle cabinet because you're trying to be a hero.
A few summers ago there was a break-in on Conklin Ave, a street on the other side of town. The burglar came in, un-armed, and the house's owner, a single woman around 40-ish or 50-ish, was home by herself. She heard the burglar, grabbed her LICENSED pistol, and shot the guy dead. Because she couldn't prove he armed, and because she couldn't prove he posed a serious threat to himself, she's was convicted of manslaughter. It was all over the news locally throughout the whole trial, and because this is new york, naturally everyone *had* to have their opinions heard... so every night on TV you had to see this arguement unfolding over and over and over again. But the gun people didn't have it their way... even though she was an older woman, by herself, and this guy *could* have raped her and murdered her (although as I recall he didn't have a previous record, which was the spark of some serious debate), she is doing hard time because she killed someone.
I'm fed up with people saying I wouldn't protect my family and all of that crap. I'd call the police, because when I pay taxes, I'm paying a small slice of their salaries so that in my time of need, trained professionals can save my life. And since I live in the third biggest city in New York State and just a short drive from one of the biggest cities in the world, and around here burglaries aren't really an every-day thing... then I'm sure the likeliness of you needing a firearm in a non-urban environment is slim to none.
Why is it that I've never met a serious gun fan in a major urban environment, and I've never met someone against guns in a rural area? I think at the end of the day, gun owners aren't all about protecting their homes... it's just a facade. They like to go hunting and/ or they like to feel like a tough guy because they own a rifle. But I highly doubt any of the gun owners in here would make that confession... I doubt that any of you ever purchased a gun to feel safe, and I highly doubt any of you have ever shot someone, or even shot *at* someone. I'm willing to bet that if any of you ever killed someone, you'd never touch a firearm again... that is, unless you're one Bruce Willis movie shy of becoming a serial killer or something.

"Hell is an Irish Pub where it's St. Patrick's Day all of the time." ~ Christopher, *The Soprano's*
Jeku
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 07:28
Matt, you're just too funny. Might be the air in New York

Quote: "Seeing as how he's a New York Police officer, I think he probably knows the law better than you do."


Better than a judge? No. Good thing police officers aren't lawyers :-P If it's in the law, I couldn't give two craps about what a policeman says. They're human and they make mistakes. Even judges have to look up laws when they're unsure--- it's why we have books.

Quote: "never have I heard of a New Yorker protecting their home and not getting at least arrested for it."


Note to self--- never buy a house in the state of New York.

Quote: "They like to go hunting and/ or they like to feel like a tough guy because they own a rifle."


Spoken with true ignorance. Guns happen to be fun to shoot, much like using a bow to shoot an arrow. Do you have a problem with that? How about a slingshot? I have several guns--- not because I feel like a tough guy (actually I'm not), and I can't legally hunt here because I live just outside Vancouver where it's probably just as nutty as NYC. I have them not only to protect my family, but also because they're so darn fun to shoot. Some people like playing with model railroads, and personally I think they're boring. Some like collecting knives--- also boring to me. But I'm not about to tell them they shouldn't collect knives because a kid could stab himself. Foolish.


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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 08:09 Edited at: 24th Apr 2005 08:09
That is funny Matt. The guy that broke into my house just happened to be a serial burgler. In about a months time he hit about 20 houses in less than a 10 block area. Mine was one of the first. After they finally caught the guy, all the people that were victimized were invited to the police station one evening for a meeting of sorts. While there, someone asked (in the middle of the meeting), what would have happened if someone would have shot the guy. He was afterall a bit nuts for entering homes while people slept. The officer answered something like, "Well, you just wouldn't have wanted to shoot him in the back. You also would have wanted to be sure that he was still in your house." He added, "If he was on his way out the door you would want to be sure that he fell inside."
That also sounds pretty clear to me. My brother-in-law is also a police officer. I talked to him on a few occasions about the same thing. His response was similar.
Do you think Vindicate made that up? Good job if he did. It sounds pretty "legal-ize" to me.

I also don't own my guns to protect my home. I have a lot of fun target shooting and as I said before I used to hunt. They don't make me feel macho. In fact, I don't think I've EVER even got them out of where they are locked up EXCEPT to take them shooting.
The knifes in my kitchen were bought for dinner use. The baseball bat in my basement was meant for um... playing baseball. I use my hands for MANY things. I have my guns for target shooting. BUT... I'd gladly use any of those things (or just about anything else) to protect my family if I needed to.
And one more thing....
You are right. The FIRST thing to do is to try to call the police. I could just tell the burgler, "Hold on one second while I make an important phone call". Then maybe I could make him some tea until they arrive.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 24th Apr 2005 08:52
Quote: "never have I heard of a New Yorker protecting their home and not getting at least arrested for it.""


I wouldn't be surprised if you got arrested, as it would be necessary for them to investigate what happened, and they wouldn't want you to be running around if they find out you're a nutjob

Shooting someone in the back is rediculous.. You should really only use your weapon as a very last resort..

Seriously don't they teach this stuff? I wouldn't own a gun myself until I had proper training on how to react to somebody breaking into a home or other dangerous threats.


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Vindicate
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Posted: 25th Apr 2005 06:39
Quote: "Vindicate got me riled up with what he said, which apparently isn't true"

You mean I presented verifiable law, and you responded with hearsay and anecdotes.

Quote: "When you use violence against someone, you get charged just as they would for asserting violence on you. That's a fact, it's as simple as that."

Prove it. And prove your legal claims from the quotes in my first post too. Tossing around words like "fact" and "law" are only increasing your burden of proof. Let's see some laws to back these statements up.
Quote: "if you don't have respect for the law"

Which law is this? The "literally firing at you" law? Or some other fictitious law?

When a police officer says he isn't aware of something, that doesn't mean it's nonexistent. In this case, it proves he knows even less about the topic at hand.

The concept of the "Castle Doctrine" goes back a couple thousand years or so, because for some crazy reason, civilized people decided they want the latitude to defend themselves at home. Imagine that! It's no surprise that some random cop has never heard of it. You don't think they're teaching history and legal analysis at the Police Academy, do you?

If you're hoping NY PL 35.20 will just dissappear if you ignore it, think again. Even this Binghamton Police Sergeant acknowledges it. After all, it is the law, and only wackos, tough guys and morons disrespect the law.
DevilLiger
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Posted: 27th Apr 2005 07:51
The real question should be instead of a statement like Video Games are Violent, "Where are the parents?"

I know where they work too hard and whenever their free time the daddy has his pants down while the mother is on her knees as i always say. I'm sorry for my language, but i hate activist like ppl against smoking. if you smoke and you got lung cancer and stuff and you complain then your a moron. It's your own fault for chosing to smoke. they didn't force you to smoke they'd only put it on store shelves, but they didn't put it on your hand. Kids who play video games actually relives stress and develops hand coordination which is very good for driving. No wonder I'm so good at driving without getting hit. Hilary Clinton is just a simple american and doesn't ever seen or try to see the positive or other feedback. She in my opinion is only trying to win the hearts of america by stomping on the obvious and the weak who could defend themselves and think they're important and powerful all of a sudden. Video games aren't bad it's the people who didn't give a helping hand like teachers, students, family, relatives, and especially the parents. The parents are especially are to blame. Work hours are too much is not an excuse. Take time to help your children and help them get into after school programs, make sure what kind of friends they have. Instead of keep pointing out things like for an example Columbine High, shootings, and stuff. When you go into prision what do you see? do you see all former video gamers? no you don't you see people who had been in the life of crime because there wasn't anyone who had helped enough to get their lives straight. The video game industry wasn't the only victim what about WW II and the Japanese incampment. We incamped them and we did not did that to the german americans at that time why? because we seek and blame others whom we can easily indentify. The music industry suffered as well as the tv and movie industry too. Are entertainment has becoming too violent? judge it for yourself not by a man/women who only has one viewpoint and had failed to see the positive or the other view. With Hillary's speech we are only simpletons who can never learn our biggest mistake. We blame others. The biggest thing recently too was 9/11 and because of that civilians attacked mideasrtern nationality citizens for no reason. We Americans as we know it are still barbarians and a bunch hypocrites. Whom not being able see the truth and quite pointing the finger and see the true fact that us as citizens had failed to reach out to the people who needed or even cried for help. Stop the blame and do something to improve society. Open up afterschool programs, talk to them like I said previously. Make rules for them get them motivated. If you don't let your child play games then he'll most likely to cause a crime or become mischevious. We didn't come to this country just to be blamed and pointed at because we're Americans too. America is a melting pot if you see it different then your just plain rascist. In this country also the ordinary americans we are also america itself. With the melting pot we all make america. To make america superior and more effcient we should stop trying to blame the game like one history back at the Salem Witch Hunt. If you've known we're still like that, but in a modern society. How can we face other nations when we only point fingers and struck them down with fists and speeches. We need to see the true fact and see that who's to blame is our selves. It maybe hard to accept, but it's true and we are to accept, but help is very much available, but we just don't reach out enough or not even reaching at all. We as a nation will have to know why other opposing nations are loosing relations with america and the same time solve and fix society first and from their on you'll know our mistakes. This is all I'm going to say.

"You may of won the battle, but I have won the war!"
- qoute from somewhere I couldn't remember.
Metel Artz
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Posted: 27th Apr 2005 08:59
Quote: " These clinton snippets are getting too popular"

Hey I started it! well maybe i didn't start it in the BEGINING but in this post so therefore:

Ron Erickson
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Posted: 28th Apr 2005 05:35 Edited at: 28th Apr 2005 05:36
In regards to the laws about defening your home:

I heard about this on the radio, so I found a link with info on the net. Yesterday, Florida enacted a "Force with Force" law.

Here is the link:
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/11493726.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

Quote: "With a National Rifle Association lobbyist at his side, Gov. Jeb Bush signed a law Tuesday to make it clear that people have a right to meet "force with force" to defend themselves on the street.

The measure, which passed the Legislature overwhelmingly earlier this year, says that people who are under attack do not have to retreat before responding. They have the right to "meet force with force, including deadly force if they reasonably believe it is necessary to do so."

Florida residents already have that right in their homes. The bill, which takes effect Oct. 1, extends the right to public spaces, such as the street or a place of business.

Supporters said the measure brings Florida in line with a number of other states.

"When you're in a position where you're being threatened ... to have to retreat and put yourself in a very precarious position, you know, it defies common sense," Bush said.

The measure was the NRA's top priority this year, said the group's lobbyist, Marion Hammer. "Now, the law and their government is on the side of law-abiding people and victims, rather than on the side of criminals," she said."


So much for your neighbor police officer Matt

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 29th Apr 2005 06:24
I could keep riding on the carousel that is this silly gun debate, or I could just ignore the stupidity that's taken over this thread and make an attempt to return to what this thread is actually about... video game violence. Meng Thao's post was a refreshing reminder that the gun debate has no impact on our community (the TGC community) whatsoever... the debate on violence in video games? Now THAT has an impact on US, game designers. Is the ESRB flawed as Clinton makes it out to be? Or are parents flawed for not taking the time to understand the ratings system? Or are we, the designers, flawed for not endorsing that parents should really understand the ratings? Sure, on each unit we produce we put the ESRB icon and on the back of each unit another icon explaining why the game is rated as such... but shouldn't we be doing more to promote the ESRB's ratings? Or should we just ignore the situation and make good games, all the while hoping that the people who oppose us won't find some legal method of thwarting our game designs?

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Vindicate
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Posted: 29th Apr 2005 11:22
Quote: "the stupidity"


This your new name for the Law?
It seemed so much more dignified while you dictated it over the last three pages.

Quote: "I could just ignore"


You can ignore gravity too. See how far that gets you.
geecee3
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Posted: 29th Apr 2005 12:19 Edited at: 29th Apr 2005 12:28
that idiot of a woman just needs a good seeing to from good old suck it to em' bill. I put it down to sexual frustration.

geecee3.

ps. at the end of the day, if they ban the games for their explicit content. they will achieve nothing more than the creation of a healthy underground scene where there are NO CONTROLS, NO ENFORCABLE LAWS and faceless heroes.
Ron Erickson
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Posted: 29th Apr 2005 21:04
Quote: "I could keep riding on the carousel that is this silly gun debate..."


Actually, I think the "carousel" has been stopped. You want to end the "silly gun debate", because you don't have anything to make that caousel spin again.

As far as the main subject of this thread (Hillary Clinton and video game violence) I completely agree with you. Censorship is NOT the answer. Enforcing the existing laws with the ESRB is what needs to be done. Parents need to be responsible for their kids and quit using video games as babysitters.
It is nice to see you have a conservative view on something, rather than just following the lead of your favorite political party. It shows that you might just have a mind of your own.

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