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Geek Culture / PS3 vs Xbox 360vsRevolution

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Resident Evil 4 fanboy
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Posted: 28th Jul 2005 00:35
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here's a question, what do you guys have to say Halo 3 aviable for the PS3?

Don't mess with spiderman!
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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 28th Jul 2005 00:43
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Halo3 for PS3? Isn't Halo owned by Microsoft or something?


Katie Holmes does not endorse D&C or Drew Cameron.
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Resident Evil 4 fanboy
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Posted: 28th Jul 2005 07:26
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yeah, expect they said it also coming out for the PS3 ( or that it said for game informer, good,bad, and ulgy in issue 147)

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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 28th Jul 2005 07:37 Edited at: 28th Jul 2005 07:38
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Raven
Quote: "You can become one of the cool kids, simply by having a Sony Playstation 3 first with Final Fantasy XII. Regardless of if you like it or not, the game is the naggers in gaming circles."

The game industry is turning into a fashion, like football. It's sad really, something I'm quite ashamed to see in the industry I love so much.

Robo Cat
Quote: "The more movie quality action a developer can get into a game, therefore, the better."

You obviously missed the 'interactive movie' genre from the mid-90's. There were loads of games created using live footage, most were b-movie quality but a small few were pretty good quality filming. Thing is virtually none of those games were actually good because they relied so much of the fact it was an 'interactive movie' to sell the game, and so the actual gameplay sucked. Movie quality action in a game does not guarentee a good game!
Quote: "Once the consoles are powerful enough to handle movie quality action in real time, developers can give you movie quality gameplay,"

Just because it's powerful enough most certain does not mean they will make use of it. Since developing the graphics takes time, and more detailed the graphics the longer it'll take unless you employ more and more artists. If you go down that route you'll end up with an artists to developer ratio of 10:1 or more, and with so many more people working on a game, or the extended development times, the prices of games are going to go up!
Quote: "Since gameplay can now deliver the movie aspect required in games nowadays"

Movie style is not a requirement of games, was Fable movie style? How about Super Monkey Ball or Neverwinter Nights?
Quote: "A good example is the new Killzone for PS3 (assuming the footage is in-game)."

Yeah, assuming it's in-game, what if i isn't in-game? From what I've heard it's highly likely it's not!
Quote: "People will forget about graphics and suddenly,"

I'm hoping they will, but it's more likely to be slow and progressive, very slow!

Halo 3 on PS3? I could just imagine Bill Gates's face if someone actually asked him that question!

I don't suffer from insanity - I enjoy every minute of it!
Current Projects: Lemmings Remake
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 28th Jul 2005 07:47
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Quote: "Actually, PS3 is vastly technically superior.
At least on paper."


You have to be kidding me. I realy realy realy dont think so. I think we will be all waving bye bye to sony. just think how long sony has been making consoles... compare that to how long microsoft has been developing consoles. However. Which is better. Ps2, or Xbox. I rest my case.


SSDD
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Calevra
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Posted: 28th Jul 2005 23:35 Edited at: 28th Jul 2005 23:36
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im goin to get the ps3,just because im a Playstation fun.There wont be THAT much difference between those 3,qus i dont have any favourite games for wich i MUST buy the console wich it is on.

Quote: "You have to be kidding me. I realy realy realy dont think so. I think we will be all waving bye bye to sony. just think how long sony has been making consoles... compare that to how long microsoft has been developing consoles. However. Which is better. Ps2, or Xbox. I rest my case.
"

I dont agree about that, See how long Nintendo has been developing consoles,and the psx ruled the n64(atleas i think so) and the ps2 ruled the DC.
It isnt only about how long you develop,its the technology you have.Microsoft started after Sony, so they started with good technology, you wouldnt expect them to start with psx graphics would you.

p.s srry about my english, its not my primary language

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 29th Jul 2005 01:26 Edited at: 29th Jul 2005 01:27
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@ BiggAdd

Please go and read the console stats.
The PS3 pawns Xbox 360 technologically, it is a fact. It's already been released.

The next gen will suck by the way.
Bring back PlayStation 1 games!


Katie Holmes does not endorse D&C or Drew Cameron.
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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Jul 2005 06:08
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Quote: " yeah, expect they said it also coming out for the PS3 ( or that it said for game informer, good,bad, and ulgy in issue 147)"


No, Halo 3 will NOT be coming out on the PS3. Bill Gates was quoted as saying that when PS3 is released they'll be walking out in the biggest release in history (Halo 3).

Many people are buying Xbox just for Halo, so if Halo 3 is released on the PS3 I will eat my car.


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 29th Jul 2005 13:43
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Quote: "just think how long sony has been making consoles... compare that to how long microsoft has been developing consoles"

Ehem, if my knowledge is correct, Microsoft of 'technically' the youngest console developer in the world, their first games console was the XBox back in 2002 (or whenever they released it). While Sony already had the original PS from 1995.

One think I descovered recently was about how Sony made the original PS a success. It was mainly due to the fact that Sony took the insane risk of advertising it to an untapped part of the market. They aimed the PS at people who had either never heard of games consoles or considered them nerdy and a waste of time. Truth is they had no exact idea if it'd work or not but they still pumped a shed-load of money into the marketting and, with a fair amount of luck, it paid off. Dispite the Saturn being more reliable the PS was a lot more successful and Sega never really recovered from it. Sony made the PS and the PS2 marketting successes, that's all, and in my opinion the PS3 will be the same. I can see the console industry crashing if game developers truly do go down the 'only great graphics sell games' route.

Quote: "Many people are buying Xbox just for Halo, so if Halo 3 is released on the PS3 I will eat my car."

I'm considering buying the XBox 360 purely for Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. But I have to agree, Halo is owned by Microsoft, the likely hood of any Halo game appearing (legally) on another console is the same as Gran Turismo appearing (legally) on anything other then a PS console.

I don't suffer from insanity - I enjoy every minute of it!

Current Projects: Lemmings Remake & (undecided)
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Raven
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Posted: 29th Jul 2005 23:24
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haha... I love that controller look
That said, the site is wrong. They've taken what was said the wrong way. It was simply said that the contollers nowadays are getting more complex and they didn't want that for Nintendo.

The reality is that the controller for the Revolution is a more user-friendly GameCube controller, designed for more types of game.
An unfortunate reality right now though, is no one had the total picture of what the console will be.

Some companies know what the specs are going to be, others know about the software and others know about the control system.
In all cases no one company is capable of saying "This is what the Revolution will be ..."

No doubt this is Nintendo's effort to make sure that the console's new features aren't released and everything can be whittled away as rumour until they're ready.

On paper, I'll agree the Playstation 3 looks insanely impressive.
In terms of the end-experience though the reality is something more along the lines of.

X-Box 360 = 1.8GHz Athlon 64 / 256MB RAM / Radeon X850 XT PE 256MB
Playstation 3 = 1.9GHz Athlon 64 / 256MB RAM / GeForce 7800 Ultra 256MB

Seriously that is roughly what they equate to in real processing terms, once you get past all the hype-crap.

Obviously in terms of power over the previous generations, they're capable of far more. Also in terms of not needing to keep Windows running in the background, plus the more streaming designs of the consoles they can squeeze out more power than is possible on the PC equivilant, or rather more than companies are willing to optimise for.

Another cold reality is while both consoles are capable of HD 1080, the fact is most will have to resort to 720, some even fall-back to PAL/NTSC resolution in order to achieve reasonable frame-rates.

The addition of almost lossless Anti-Aliasing this generation (from Sony/Microsoft) really lends this to mean they can fake higher resolutions without you realising it. Given Televisions will always blur the output with it's own Natural Aliasing means you can easily be fooled.

Though if you look at the new generation consoles, it is very interesting to see many of these 'break through designs' being implimented now, were actually introduced current generation by the GameCube.

Quote: "One think I descovered recently was about how Sony made the original PS a success. It was mainly due to the fact that Sony took the insane risk of advertising it to an untapped part of the market. They aimed the PS at people who had either never heard of games consoles or considered them nerdy and a waste of time"


Sort of. They more provided developers with more space, which at the time ment they could create longer and more involving games as result. They also advertised like crazy. Nintendo has never been big on Advertising.

Even with the Playstation 2, Sony would pay developers if at the end of an advert it has 'For Playstation 2' despite the title often being available for several platforms.

The market really has been won over on a battlefield of advertistment. Microsoft didn't realise this until too late, and Nintendo have never really understood the concept of what good advertising can do to your sales. As far as Joe Bloggs is conserned, Sony are everywhere. As such the sales for the last generation clearly show this.

It's all about getting something as much in the publics face as it can. You put to them that your console has 2TFlops which is 2x the TFlops Microsoft's console can do. Everyone says "Whoa!".
Realistically speaking, the games on both consoles will be almost identical.. in-fact I'll wager you'll be hard pushed to say which has the best graphics Halo 3, Unreal 3 or Killzone 2. We've got to a point where really graphically speaking we are at the limits of what people will notice.

Although that time isn't quite here, the next year will see it. As a result we are going to see very similar looking games. This had already started on the current generation too.

Nintendo while sure they're putting out a machine just as powerful as the competition, are focusing more on the gameplay. When they're ready to let ripp information, they will.

The recent Nintendo DS campaign has really began to show Nintendo are wising up to advertising. They're making use of thier position as handheld top-dog, rather than relying on it like they did with the consoles.

So the market will shift next generation. Sony are just providing more of the same, with better graphics. While sure this includes listening to the developers and providing easier tools and middleware as standard. Development wise it is still the hardest console to develop for. Microsoft are pushing thier console to be part of the online generation. Trying to appeal to the whole customise, share, play. Something that they do very well with Windows advertising.

Nintendo for once are being very coy about what they have planned. There were with the DS and when that hit it was like an evolution.
Some people hated it some loved it, but the sales don't lie. Nintendo have pushed more than 4.5x the units of Sony so far, (risen from 3x that they had at E3) and when they have far more games available providing better overall services. The focus is providing something cheap to entertain you, not do your laundry while your watching TV all on the subway.

Hopefully the revolution will be welcomed exactly the same.
The industry is currently moving sideways rather than forward. Atleast one company is going to need to change that.

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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 30th Jul 2005 00:19
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Quote: "We've got to a point where really graphically speaking we are at the limits of what people will notice."

With games like Halo 3, Unreal 3 and Killzone 2 I'd agree, the graphical differences, although possibly noticable on still screen shots, you're unlikely to notice while playing.

It's games like Dead Rising and RTS games that still have a way to go before the differences won't be that noticable. Mainly because of the shear number of characters, for example, the zombies in Dead Rising are no where near as detailed as those in Resident Evil on NGC, but Dead rising has hundreds of them onscreen. Also look at Black & White 2, the individual characters are about as detailed as the earliest 3d fighting games, such as Virtua Fighter. Give them another half-decade and we'll have RTS games with individual soldiers as detailed as those in Soul Calibur on DC, now that'd be inpressive!

Quote: "Nintendo while sure they're putting out a machine just as powerful as the competition, are focusing more on the gameplay. When they're ready to let ripp information, they will."

Undoubtedly, Nintendo will not fail to deliver on an excellent product with their new systems.

I don't suffer from insanity - I enjoy every minute of it!

Current Projects: Lemmings Remake & (undecided)
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Aoneweb
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Posted: 30th Jul 2005 00:38
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Nintendo’s backward compatibility will make the Revolution rock, I have a Gamecube and an Xbox, and being able to use my Game cube stuff as well as new stuff makes me appy.

Toshiba,3.2Ghz,ATI Radeon 9000 IGP 128mb,1.2gig of Ram,Windows XP Home. www.aoneweb.com

http://aoneweb.blogspot.com
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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 30th Jul 2005 23:37
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Backwards compatibility is something that can potentially cripple a console, if the developer spends too much time working on the system compatible with old games they take away development time from creating the functionality of the new hardware. Look at the PS2's original japanese release, it's by far one of the biggest mess-ups because the hardware and software were blatently not ready when they released them. If they had spent the time on the new hardware rather then creating the hardware backwards compatibility it may have been a less-messy release.

I've never been one to like backwards compatible hardware, purely because I own a PS2, Xbox and Gamecube, so getting a new system that can run all the games from the old systems is a bit of a waste since I can already play them on the older systems. I don't care what anyone says, I'd rather keep the old consoles for nostalgic reasons. I'll never sell any of my consoles, no matter how old they get.

The only contradiction with myself I have is that I never owned an original PS1, so the PS2 allowed me the run the original games, but then again I only bought a bare handful of PS1 games.

There will always be a split, I think, on backwards compatibility, one side praising it while the other side sees it as a bit of a waste. I'm part of the later.

I don't suffer from insanity - I enjoy every minute of it!

Current Projects: Lemmings Remake & (undecided)
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Raven
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Posted: 31st Jul 2005 01:59
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I thought the irony of the Backcompatibility was no one could afford to get a Playstation 2 without trading in thier Playstation with all of it's games.

This said the games I do have for the Playstation don't work correctly in the Playstation 2. Some are too slow, some cut faces and cause graphical glitches, other refuse to recognise the memory card slot. I have a good handful of Playstation games still, I don't have a single one that works 100% on the Playstation 2. Some like Final Fantasy 7, 8 & 9 after a while just quite frankly break down altogether. You try making it through a Mako Plant with nothing but corrupt images as your area. You only know what'll attack you by the fact it's a moving bunch of corrupt pixels.

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Yusaku
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Posted: 31st Jul 2005 04:31
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Xbox 360 for: The best next-gen line-up, the best online service, awesome features, and the best controller (so far), and apparently Microsoft is going to have its own classics game download via Xbox Live Arcade where anybody can download games from the Turbographx 16, Genesis, Saturn, and Dreamcast (read in the new GamePro magazine).

What more else is to say?

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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 31st Jul 2005 20:44 Edited at: 31st Jul 2005 20:46
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Yusaku
Why would Microsoft have game support for retro Sega hardware? That doesn't make sense, especially when you consider that Saturn and Dreamcast games are several hundred megabytes (a couple of gigabytes if you consider the 4 disc games) all of them would amount to possibly a couple of terabytes (1Tb = 1024Gb) so where are they going to host them all? Plus, how do they plan to get around the legal issues, unless the owners of the games declare them 'abandonware' Microsoft would have to get a publishing agree with all of them. Lastly, if Microsoft were doing this, why not just bundle the all onto a few thousand dvds and sell them at ripp-off prices?

Where did you get that info and can anyone else conferm this? It sounds like the biggest pile of horse **** I've heard of in years!

Even if Microsoft wanted to do this, I'd be very surprised if Sega would easily agree, especially when you consider there was some bad blood left over between Sega and Microsoft after the Dreamcast, I'm not too sure on all the details but what I do know is there were 'disagreements' about something that were never settled.

Raven
I've heard about the problems with PS2 backwards compatibility, but I thought most of these problems were sorted within a year or two of the consoles release? The only games I've got for PS1 are:

Fear Effect - Runs fine, if a little sloppy in the controls.
Gran Turismo 2 - Runs fine but didn't play it much since I was running on the Dreamcast through Bleam.
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain - No graphical glitches, but does slow down rather often.

Maybe I've just happen to have 3 of the better supported games. (shrug)

I don't suffer from insanity - I enjoy every minute of it!

Current Projects: Lemmings Remake & (undecided)
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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 31st Jul 2005 21:42 Edited at: 31st Jul 2005 21:44
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Quote: "all of them would amount to possibly a couple of terabytes (1Tb = 1024Gb) so where are they going to host them all?"


I don't know, but this shouldn't be too big a problem for a company that turns over trillions of dollars every year. Why give out the games on DVD (printing costs) when people can download them.

SEGA make games for XBox now btw, and they would probably let MS use their games for a price - how else are they going to make money this console war?


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Jeku
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Posted: 31st Jul 2005 21:57
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I won't believe anything until I have that white and green container in my living room.


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
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Resident Evil 4 fanboy
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Posted: 1st Aug 2005 03:06
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about nintendo, silicon knights is gone, how are they going to deal with this big change, I mean, silicon knights are responsible for Eternal darkness, and MGS: twin snakes

Don't mess with spiderman!
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Deep Thought 42
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I have to agree with Drew here. Let's get some examples like Final Fantasy. Despite the name the game never seems to end. The Resident Evil series is ok. The new AI in the 4th one is good but killing zombies is sort of getting old. I say stick with a PC. I await the coming of Age of Empires 3 and Civ 4.
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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 1st Aug 2005 23:53
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I'm not saying I don't want to see old Sega games running on a new system, I'd love to play Panzer Dragoon Saga any day, but already own a copy for my real Saturn. Then again it'd also give them the opportunity to make english versions of games that never had the chance, like Shining Force 3, which would be wonderful. What I'm saying is, it's unlikely that Sega would've entered into that agreement. Also, either they're making an emulator to run the games on or they're recompiling the games for the XBox 360. Emulators are fiddly and awkward, specially when developers used non-standard code in their games, but recompiling takes a lot of work with interpreting the original code, you can't just write another conpiler to use the original source code since non-standard code would have to be considered. All in all, I think Sega and Mircosoft would have a huge amount of work to do to pull it off which would take quite a long time, and I doubt they'd get their money back either.

Quote: "SEGA make games for XBox now btw"

Ehem, Sega make games for themselves, Sega are a publisher in their own right making and releasing games on practically every system. If Sega made games for Microsoft, you wouldn't see any Sega games on anything other then and a Microsoft console.

Quote: "how else are they going to make money this console war?"

Erm, by making great games that get rave reviews and sell like hot-cakes?

Quote: "I say stick with a PC."

PC's will always have the largest variety of games available, not even Gameboy has the number of games in it's history then PC, so there's one damn good reason for PC's to be the better gaming systems.

I don't suffer from insanity - I enjoy every minute of it!

Current Projects: Lemmings Remake & (undecided)
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Resident Evil 4 fanboy
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 01:49
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speaking of which. Do you Pc games will be gone soon. With games with Doom 3, half life 2 requiring a powerful computer and spending hundreds on a graphics card?

Don't mess with spiderman!
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ionstream
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Unless the Revolution's really big surprise is a hologram projector, I'm gonna go with the X-Box 360. First off, Rareware (or Rare) has moved to X-Box, and Conkers bad fur day, and maybe even a Banjo-Threeie will come out on it. Secondly, DVDs on the Revolution will only be available with extra hardware, XBox is built-in.

And finally, X-Box has THE BEST games. Nintendo used to have the best games, but then they came out with crap, and there are very few games for it.

Note: There has been some rumor about a hologram projector for the Revolution on IGN....

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Raven
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 03:22 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2005 03:45
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Quote: "Xbox 360 for: The best next-gen line-up, the best online service, awesome features, and the best controller (so far), and apparently Microsoft is going to have its own classics game download via Xbox Live Arcade where anybody can download games from the Turbographx 16, Genesis, Saturn, and Dreamcast (read in the new GamePro magazine)."


X-Box Live! is set to have MAME support if that's what your on about, but that isn't exclusive to the X-Box 360. It also doesn't contain any Sega games.

If any console was to see classic Sega games it would be the Nintendo Revolution, but as the president of Sega noted. While this would be nice to see it happen, Nintendo's current stance is that they only provide support for thier previous systems.

Sega will continue to develop games for multiple systems, but due to thier strong ties and similar stance on computer games. Sega is officially speaking backing Nintendo once again with a much larger planned library of titles. (there was an interview recently for the New York Times available on reuters about Segs's stance on the Revolution and Nintendo)

Quote: "I have to agree with Drew here. Let's get some examples like Final Fantasy. Despite the name the game never seems to end. The Resident Evil series is ok. The new AI in the 4th one is good but killing zombies is sort of getting old. I say stick with a PC. I await the coming of Age of Empires 3 and Civ 4."


Yes because Civilization 4 and Age of Empires 3 are quite stand out brand new and exciting games. Don't fool yourself, the PC has just as many over milked titles as other platforms. While currently the PC has the largest game collection available, reality of the past 10years is this is increasingly becomming untrue.

Fewer and fewer games are being developed for the PC, let alone those that are exclusive. The only reason people purchase most PC games now is because they can't get them on thier consoles.

If Half-Life 2 was available for X-Box last year, do you honestly think that steam would've been overloaded with people downloading it? Nah. Larger numbers of gamers would've gone out and bought an X-Box just to play it. Same with a number of other high profile titles.

Quote: "about nintendo, silicon knights is gone, how are they going to deal with this big change, I mean, silicon knights are responsible for Eternal darkness, and MGS: twin snakes"


This would be bad, only Konami have actually extended Kojima's team to now have an exclusive Nintendo team.
Most of Twin Snakes was done under the watchful eye of Kojima himself anyways, which is no doubt why it turned out so true to the original yet evolved and cinematic.

Can't say I was impressed even slightly by Eternal Darkness.
Silicon Knights were previously Playstation Exclusive before GameCube, and PC Exclusive before that. Fact is they tend to jump boat however they choose. No company really should be 'exclusive' imo unless they're an in-house team. I mean you just end up cutting out a major chunk of your potencial market.

Quote: "I've heard about the problems with PS2 backwards compatibility, but I thought most of these problems were sorted within a year or two of the consoles release? The only games I've got for PS1 are:

Fear Effect - Runs fine, if a little sloppy in the controls.
Gran Turismo 2 - Runs fine but didn't play it much since I was running on the Dreamcast through Bleam.
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain - No graphical glitches, but does slow down rather often.

Maybe I've just happen to have 3 of the better supported games. (shrug)"


Bleem is more compatible than the Playstation 2.
If you run through the list of games that have problems on Bleem you'll notice the Final Fantasy games are near the top. I have quite a few others on the list. Games that often try to push what the Playstation could do often used things in ways that emulators can't predict or emulate easily. So you get glitchs.

Given the speech we were fed that it runs previous titles because the Hardware is compatible though to me just seems like bull to me right now. Why the Playstation 3 will be any different is beyond me.

Quote: "Unless the Revolution's really big surprise is a hologram projector, I'm gonna go with the X-Box 360. First off, Rareware (or Rare) has moved to X-Box, and Conkers bad fur day, and maybe even a Banjo-Threeie will come out on it. Secondly, DVDs on the Revolution will only be available with extra hardware, XBox is built-in.

And finally, X-Box has THE BEST games. Nintendo used to have the best games, but then they came out with crap, and there are very few games for it.

Note: There has been some rumor about a hologram projector for the Revolution on IGN...."


Rareware did not leave Nintendo willingly. Yes, they have some truely breath-taking innovative games due out for the X-Box 360.. but what are they suppose to do under a new employer who might I had actually splashed out on expanding the company to have atleast 2 more development teams.

There is no Banjo-Threeie planned at present, concentration is on other projects. Although a DS version is planned and they're looking for people right now for that project.

You don't know there is no native DVD support, you don't know there is no native GameCube support. All of the current rumours around the Revolution are BULLCRAP! The only thing Nintendo have confirmed is:

The current design and size.
The fact is it completely back compatible with all previous home console games NES, SNES, N64 will be available online to download. There may or maynot be a small price to use this service, however the games themselves that Nintendo worked on will be free.
From the above statment you can assume because GameCube will not be downloadable the hardware itself will be capable of running the disks.
We also know that every attachment for the Revolution will be WiFi Networked, which includes Nintendo DS integration.
Nintendo has also mentioned that a Keyboard and Mouse will also be available for purchase, along with the new Online System.
Final information is the DVD are not 8" again and using a form of HD-DVD / DVD-RAM format again by Panasonic.

That is literally the ONLY information Nintendo have given away so-far. Past that your clueless, the Magazines are clueless. Jesus even the developers don't yet currently know the full story on the console.

From what I know, yes DVD & DVD-HD will run on the Revolution. Yes it will natively use GameCube Discs. Yes it will be able to use the GameCube Controller and Memory Cards. Yes Online Gaming will be Free. Yes it will be able to Browse and E-Mail (using GameSpy technology). No there is no 'Holographic' projector. Yes the controller has been redesigned. No there are no planes on other platform classic available on it. No it is not less powerful than either the X-Box 360 or Playstation 3. No the constroller doesn't have any Optical Displays on it. Yes the controllers will run for atleast 15 hours before recharging is required (they are trying to make it 24 with over 10days stand-by).

The X-Box does NOT have the best games, neither will the X-Box 360. Each console is set to have thier own number of exclusive games.

Nintendo this time have scrapped thier licensing policies, instead developers will be able to freely develop using tools provided on the currently revamped Nintendo Developer Site. They will then be able to upload thier creations online for people to try out and share. It is also possible to make a deal with Nintendo to publish full-games. Either on a Try'n'Buy basis or a Full Retail version.

Nintendo themselves have dedicated themselves to expanding thier list of developers for the Revolution. Most developers strayed because the GameCube had an image (this said I still firmly stand by the fact there are far more HQ titles on the GameCube than any other console), the Revolution should regain a more multi-market image with some of the games in development.

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Nytmayre
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 21:27
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When people are trying to decide which console is best, I usually just examine which games are exclusive to the console I'm backing, and whether they are any good or not. Take this for an example: PS2 has quite a few exclusives that do alot for it's image and popularity.
Games such as (maybe I'm wrong on some of these) The New MGS Games, Smackdown series, Tekken, Gran Turismo, GTA, Jak & Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, the Resi Evil Series and the Final Fantasy series (before they jumped ship to Gamecube) to name but a few. (BTW Resi Evil 4Is coming to PS2 shortly, and FF XIII is coming to PS3, and I know this cos I got the new addition of Official Playstation 2 mag).
Not only do these "Exclusives" boost the consoles popularity, but they also determine which is the most popular in the long run. If, say, Halo and Fable Switched to PS2 (Which I know is never going to happen) then PS2 Would become more popular and XBox Would start sinking.
The point i'm trying to make is, The Developer's rule of thumb is "pick the most popular console, that way We'll sell more copies". This in turn Boost's the console's hype and popularity, therefore creating a vicious circle of hype and conflict.
Also, I think that I'll be getting the PS3, not just because I'm a Sony fan, but also because it seems to be the most powerful. That and, It's selection of "Exclusives" tickle my fancy more than, say, Xbox 360's. Even as we speak, the circle is closing in on us.
Quote: ""If buying a next gen console you will be extreamly stupid not to but an Xbox 360. Just by looking at the specs you will see that the Xbox 360 is far more advanced than the 2 other consoles.""

The PS3 is the most powerful, with the "Reality Synthesiser" Graphics chip, boasting 128-bit Pixel precision and Programmable shading processors. Also, the PS3 is internet-ready out of the box, meaning that you can connect it up to your PC, plug it in, and start playing games online.
People say that the next-gen games are going to be practically the same (cough cough...drewcameron...cough), but I disagree. I think that the developers may be running out of new genres, but they'll never run out of new ideas. SPORE sounds like an interesting one, where you create new life-forms from scratch using molecules, then build them a town to live in. It's gonna be hilarious.
In all, I feel that Next Gen gaming has a lot of interesting and suprisingly good games and ideas. It will be a closely fought battle between the three rival consoles, but as long as everyone's happy, it doesn't really matter.

By the way, these are un-edited, un-biased genuine quotes from leading console big-wigs...

Quote: ""Sony's capabilities are the same as ours. We will become the market leader with our next-generation console""

- Robbie Bach, Microsoft's cheif XBOX Officer.

Quote: ""It's questionable what the 'horsepower' of the two other companies' consoles will be used for. It will bloat up development costs""

- Satoru Iwata, Nintendo President.

Quote: "" Microsoft is trailing behind us, but they are not a threat. The Xbox 360 is more of an Xbox 1.5 than a next-generation console""

- Ken Kutagari, Sony Computer Entertainment President.

An Eternal Struggle between good and evil continues...Each side looking for an advantage...Each side looking for me.

Uh... What's the point of this bit?
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Samoz83
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 22:35
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who cares just get the one you like or all of them (personal im going for the PS3) but the best console desinger was Sega!

SaM
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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2005 22:47 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2005 22:51
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Quote: "People say that the next-gen games are going to be practically the same (cough cough...drewcameron...cough), but I disagree. "


They are. Let's look at some high profile games from this generation of consoles.

Halo - another FPS. And if you ask me, an overrated one.

MGS2 - added little to the originals gameplay, and just impressed everyone with the number of inanimate objects you could shoot. And let me add, when you left the Tanker level, the game became terrible.

GTA - great! At first. But you can only pump out so many sequels with new novelty cars before this genre too, will get boring. It already is becoming old.

Gran Tursimo - Another racing game... with shiner cars! Great.

All new Final Fantasy games - rubbish, old, done to death.

Tony Hawks 3,4,THUG and THUG2. It was cool the first time around, dammit.

All PS2 or XBox games are sequels or rehashes of PSOne games. And what's with all the fps? seriously! FPS games are gay. This generation was the biggest dissapointment since The Matrix sequels. I can remember ONE truly good game in this generation; Ico. I can name many, many great PSOne games.


Katie Holmes does not endorse D&C or Drew Cameron.
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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2005 00:13 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2005 00:14
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Quote: "Bleem is more compatible than the Playstation 2"

I've only got bleem for Dreamcast, and I think that only runs Gran Turismo 2, well, by version seems to.

Quote: "but the best console desinger was Sega!"

Without a doubt, the Saturn had awesome 2d capabilities when it was made and only 2d game developers (notably Capcom) realised this. Although the Saturn lacked 3d it still had some games that showed what it could do with the right developers, Team Andromeda produced the 3 panzer dragoon games that really blew the socks off everyone each time the new one came along. The Dreamcast would've survived longer if people had taken it seriously rather then just looking at it and saying "it's crap", it wasn't AND DC is the only games console ever (apart from handhelds) to have a modem fitted as standard, XBox, PS2 and NGC all have their modems sold seperately!

Quote: "Halo - another FPS. And if you ask me, an overrated one."

I agree that Halo isn't the best FPS I've played but it's one of the getter ones, and good fps games are few and far between the crap ones!

Quote: "MGS2 - added little to the originals gameplay, and just impressed everyone with the number of inanimate objects you could shoot. And let me add, when you left the Tanker level, the game became terrible."

MGS never interested me, played a demo on PS2 and couldn't be bothered really. I've heard the guy who created it has big things planned for the next one on PS3, including destructable maps to bring a complete change to the hide and seek element. I loved the first two Thief games so I may look into MGS on PS3.

Quote: "GTA - great! At first. But you can only pump out so many sequels with new novelty cars before this genre too, will get boring. It already is becoming old."

I know that feeling, I liked GTA:3 and Vice City, haven't got San Andreas yet (waiting for it to drop to a good price on PC) but I don't think it's going to be as much better then VC then 3 was above 1 & 2. If they do GTA:6, they're going to have to redesign a lot of the game.

Quote: "Gran Tursimo - Another racing game... with shiner cars! Great."

GT is one of the better driving games, but as with GTA:SA I'm only getting GT4 when it's at a good price. Some sequals came be worth getting if you can find them cheap!

Quote: "All new Final Fantasy games - rubbish, old, done to death."

Yup, and the fact they did an actual sequal to one of their previous games suggests they ran out of ideas somewhere. Tried to play FFX-2, got passed the first battle and I couldn't watch any more because it was so cheesy I could taste it, nasty!

Quote: "Tony Hawks 3,4,THUG and THUG2. It was cool the first time around, dammit."

I feel the same way about extreme sports games as some people feel about FPS games, once you've seen one you've seen the lot, and they're getting so boring I just ignore the adverts for them now.

Here're some games I'd love to see sequals to on the nex-gen systems:

Panzer Dragoon - What can I say, Panzer Saga is still my favourite RPG of all time, and the world they created for those games has so much potential for some great stories.

Total Annihilation - The greatest RTS ever, still deserves a fully 3d revitilising!

Freespace - The games industry has been lacking any truly good space combat games, we've had Freelancer and X2, and that's about it. Freespace needs a 3rd game!

There are several others I could mention, but I won't turn this post into a 10K word essay. I'm looking forward to many of the already confirmed nex-gen games, so we'll just have to wait and see.

[edit] damn, I stopped before I planned to and it's still a Raven sized post!

I don't suffer from insanity - I enjoy every minute of it!

Current Projects: Lemmings Remake & (undecided)
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DARKGuy
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2005 01:05
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Wpw, big thread over here...

But I agree with Avan, Total Annihilation was AWESOME (finished it with the Core ones -the blue ones, I think-) and was cool.... the ending movies weren't so great though, for being such a big battle, but it was a very good game


http://dbfree.dbspot.com/ <- DB Freebie Archive! Royalty-free media for your games! FREE!
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Resident Evil 4 fanboy
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2005 16:54
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Alright lets change the subject
what killer app do your think the 360 and PS3 has?
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AnimEdge
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2005 23:22
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My sister's BF is a big X-box guy (though i think he only owns Halo1 & 2) and i am a big Sony guy and we got into a short argument over it when i then thought about the last gen wars and compaired them to now. i felt kinda, disapointed i guess would be the word, got my PS2 about a year after it came out so it wasnt the first run so i have had no problems with it, and i have spent a few weeks with a x-box in Cali. and i did notice it was shinier and had higher rez, but at the same time i relased that i did not care.

anyhow point is that i look over at my gaming selection and remebered all the hype for the systems and me being so gung ho for the ps2 and then looking over there and seeing that 4-5 years later i own: 11 PS2 games, 1 are borrowed, 9 i bought for 10bucks used about 2-3 years after they came out, and the rest i got for x-mas (MGS3 and GITS), and so i am sitting here thinking that i have spent more money on the console itself then i ever did on the games i have for the system, i thought of the last time i was at a gaming store and how long it took me to generaly find a game that i might even feel like playing(last time i ended up buying RE3 which i stil havnt played yet), its not that i lost my will to play, becouse of games like MGS3 and others, its just, theres nothing good out anymore.

Some might say "well thats becouse you bought a ps2" well i have a Sega dreamcast, i have only one game, Shemune, which i never finnished playing when it dawned on me that there is no ending, and it was all hype "the worlds longest RPG ever!" (small type) spread across 5 or so games we wont release (/small type)

Then theres the X-box, if i bought that, i would have bought, Halo 1 & 2 and um, maybe fable or KOTOR, but nothing else

and gamecube, Resident Evil 4, oh wait that'ill be on the ps2 by X-mas

At the end of the day now, im thinking that the Blockbusters Video Game system renting is sounding pretty good (if they still have it) and for the 10 games over the lifespan of the system would probly end up saving me a few hundred bucks doing it this way

So im gonna head off and play FFVIII(Thats 8 not 7(clouds a pansy)) for the 20th time
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 00:15
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Quote: "X-Box 360 = 1.8GHz Athlon 64 / 256MB RAM / Radeon X850 XT PE 256MB
Playstation 3 = 1.9GHz Athlon 64 / 256MB RAM / GeForce 7800 Ultra 256MB"


Erm... what?

Quote: "Three symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each "
Taken from the xbox website.


SSDD
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Raven
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 00:48
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Triple Core PowerPC 940-Based 3.2GHz CPU, which has the equivilant power of a Single Core Athlon64 1.8GHz CPU.

Yes, it's impressive as hell that thier processor is running at 3.2GHz with not 1, not 2, but 3 Cores. Doesn't stop the fact that the reality of the hardware is different to what people believe.

Quick pop-quiz, which is quicker.

Athlon 64 X2 2.2GHz or Pentium D 3.2GHz?


As for the games mentioned. I agree with Avan, this previous generation as far as Sony go atleast has been almost nothing but sequals to poplar games.

The biggest selling Playstation 2 games have been:
Final Fantasy
Gran Turismo
Jakk
Silent Hill
etc.

Each of the games have been in-fact fairly unimaginative. Spawing another bloody sequal the next year. It's ridiculous how Sony just milked franchises and tossed aside some new an innovative titles in favour of more franchises.

I wouldn't include Resident Evil in the line up myself, simply because Capcom had provided Outbreak. This is something that while I find pretty good as a classic Resident Evil that is more involved with individual characters surving the events, fact is fans didn't see it as new games but rehashes. Thought that really makes my point. For the GameCube they did new things.

Like MGS2/3 were reasonably boring, and once you get to a certain point just because crap. Yet Substance for the other consoles/pc fixed many of the issues. (in particular the 5minutes game time, 30minute cut-scene)

The X-Box has had some very good games the past few years, simply out of necessity. So the way I see it the X-Box does offer more games, and better games.

Something that has seriously ticked me off other than the lack of innovation and push to ripp you off with sequals that sometimes were almost identical to the point they could've just been a bonus mission disc. And that's the controls. Playstation games just didn't provide anything new in this area.

The controllers had the whole analog (alright lets be honest it was like On/Half/Off not exactly analog) buttons. Yet the only games that used it, it was bloody impossible to use in.

It was a pain in the arse trying to do moves in Soul Calibur with them. I took the game back and got the GameCube version instead.

Problem is though, most of the gamers this last generation technically are new. So to them while magazines harp on about these awesome sequals. To them these games are all new, so they don't have the disappointment of playing the same old crappy games.

How much more of the market these companies cna reach though will depend on what happens next.

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TKF15H
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 02:27
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How could a PPC perform so badly? The DC has a 200mhz RISC processor, and it did what an 800mhz x86 wouldn't.
Quote: "Yes, it's impressive as hell that thier processor is running at 3.2GHz with not 1, not 2, but 3 Cores."

Isn't that 3.2ghz each instead of total? You're dividing 3.2 by 3 cores to get 1ghz each?

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 05:13 Edited at: 4th Aug 2005 05:33
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Three symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each I can see Xbox360 being a huge hit. I realy can see playstaion not making this one. Microsoft has got the lead for sure. Yeh there will be sales to stubborn PS2 fans. But any1 wanting to buy a new console will immediatley go toward the microsoft console. Microsoft have way more money to invest in this sort of thing. And it clearly shows.

In many ways Sony have copied some of microsofts ideas. Who would have thought that sony suddenly decided to have wireless controllers when the details of the xbox 360 came out. O and not to forget. You say sony has been in the buisness longer. Which buisness owns the largest online gaming service? O yes play station 2 online is a huge hit over here with a wopping 6,000 players online . O and Xbox live is free.

Its not just the power. its what the company is offering in software aswell... and i'm affraid, no arguments here that microsoft will be the leading runner in the use of software on the console. considering software is what they do. Unfortunately what you have to realise is when the xbox came out. people who owned PS2s bought an xbox... i have now traded my PS2 in, and i am totaly for Xbox. people in their millions who flocked to buy halo and Halo2 will sureley want to buy the next generation console that supports Halo3... Well Sony have Grand Turismo... Yes i can see that going far considering there is PGR which is apparantly very good. And i think there are rumours that microsoft has bought the rights to GT aswell. I remember all u PS2 nuts swearing that GTA would not come out on the xbox. hmmmmmm. O and i realy cant wait till the PS3 comes out. because microsoft... Those clever men in a large office decided the release date of Halo3 to land on the ady the PS3 comes out.

Your choice. A console that has been out longer with more games with the greatest first person shooter ever made in the history of gaming with instant super fast free access to the internet through ur console to play the single greatest FPS of all time with people around the world. Or a PS3 which will be more expensive as it has just been released with GT (if its released which may already be out on the Xbox by then). I realy doubt microsoft will alow for sony to take the lead in the next gen console market. If i were sony, i would get a head start on creating the next gen handheld console. (The power of an xbox in the palm of ur hand.... how much of seller is that!)

Maybe a poll should be set somewhere... only allowing one vote per person of corse. to see which console is more popular.


SSDD
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TKF15H
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 06:09
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Quote: " Three symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each I can see Xbox360 being a huge hit. I realy can see playstaion not making this one."

You can't really see Sony doing anything (making it or not) as nobody knows what the Cell processor is really capable of. I read somewhere it has 7 cores on a chip and if each one is 3.2ghz then the XBox is toast.

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Raven
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 08:01 Edited at: 4th Aug 2005 08:11
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The Playstation 3 has 1x PowerPC 64-bit CPU, with 8x SPE all at 3.2GHz. (1 SPE is disabled though, don't ask me why. Sony know)

Seriously this is begining to be a waste of bloody time trying to explain this. It's quite obviously you each seem to be impressed with big numbers and fancy marketing Hype.

[edit] oh and FYI, Processor Cores no matter how many run at the same speed. You cannot change the Core Clock and Multiplier between Cores as they're not seperate things.

It's like having 3 Engines in the same car, you can't have them operating at different speeds. They all have to be in-sync else your asking for twisted metal. It's the exact same for a CPU, they're not seperate processors. As such they cannot achieve the same speed as multiple processors can.

3-Core PowerPC 940 3.2GHz cannot achieve the same speed as 3x PowerPC 940 3.2GHz Processors. Your looking at dropping the speed by around 15% overall, just as a Single Processor Single Core can only achieve around 50% of what the 3-Core can.

Don't believe the marketing hype, there is no way that the 3-Core can ever achieve 3x the Performance of a Single Core version. It also can't achieve the Performance of the Multiprocessors.

There are overheads to factor in, designations, Cache useage, Memory Addressing, etc.

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TKF15H
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 17:04 Edited at: 4th Aug 2005 17:10
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Quote: "Seriously this is begining to be a waste of bloody time trying to explain this. It's quite obviously you each seem to be impressed with big numbers and fancy marketing Hype."

Knowing your posting habits, you'd be more than happy to explain. And did you read my post just after yours? Dunno how I could have sounded like I was impressed with big numbers when I compared an SH4 to a P3.

Quote: "[edit] oh and FYI, Processor Cores no matter how many run at the same speed. You cannot change the Core Clock and Multiplier between Cores as they're not seperate things."

Why would you want processor cores running at different clock/multipliers? o_O

Quote: "
There are overheads to factor in, designations, Cache useage, Memory Addressing, etc."

Designations, cache usage, and memory addressing are overheads that could also be inflicted on a multiple processor setup. And since the processors are further away from each other, there could be more of an overhead with syncronization. The only processors I've really studied are the 6502 and the SH4 which didn't have this stuff so I don't really know much about it.

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Raven
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 17:37
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Quote: "Why would you want processor cores running at different clock/multipliers? o_O"


Buggered if I know. I mean provided that it was even possible, which would require each Core to have it's own Clock and Multiplier, which effectively would make it .. well it's own Processor Unit, which defeats the point in it being an additional Core. Why you'd want them all running at different speeds other than to lower power usag, that's beyond me.

Quote: "Designations, cache usage, and memory addressing are overheads that could also be inflicted on a multiple processor setup. And since the processors are further away from each other, there could be more of an overhead with syncronization. The only processors I've really studied are the 6502 and the SH4 which didn't have this stuff so I don't really know much about it."


True, but is handled by the Chipset rather than the Processor(s).
This means that the overhead for Multi-Processor is lower than that of Multi-Core.

If you think of Single-Core as 100%, you looking at performance of around.

Single Core - 100%
Dual Core - 140%
Triple Core - 175%
Dual Processor - 165%
Triple Processor - 200%

The more processors and Cores you throw in the mix obviously the less and less you will see a performance enhancement from a single controller.

Sony's Cell processor utilises the SPEs as very quick specific task sub-processor units. That allow you to combine things, but the end of the day they still need that main PowerPC Unit in order to make sure they're all coordinated. So the main PowerPC Unit can't function at full speed, at the same time the SPEs are also extremely limited in terms of what they can do.

Literally all they can do is Floating Point Operations. They're just ALUs in reality, despite Sony's terminology for them.

So while the PS3 can plod through the mathematical equasions for physics far quicker, the actual interaction of collision will run quicker on XB360.

More doesn't always mean better.

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TKF15H
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Posted: 4th Aug 2005 18:15 Edited at: 4th Aug 2005 18:17
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Quote: "Sony's Cell processor utilises the SPEs as very quick specific task sub-processor units. That allow you to combine things, but the end of the day they still need that main PowerPC Unit in order to make sure they're all coordinated."

AFAIK there isn't much information publicly available about the Cell's internals, so I'm just guessing: If it were to have a set of shared registers within the processor available to the cores, coordination could be done by each core leaving the main unit to whatever it needs to do. Since the PPC architecture tends to be generous with registers, I don't see that being something so hard to do. Properly done, most the overheads previously mentioned can get bypassed.

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Resident Evil 4 fanboy
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Posted: 8th Aug 2005 03:46
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But guys, there's only one console that has stayed with to the end, no matter how black, or glem, is the PC! with all of these cosoles coming out with these gorgeous graphics, and spending all this money on graphiics card you would think the pc would drop and die.
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