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Geek Culture / Human Rights Violation in Utah

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2005 23:54
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hahah thats funny- they need liek an army to gate crash a party- it looks like somrthing hollywood would poop out

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Jimmy
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 00:06
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You know what, I think you should just be glad that so many users & dealers were picked up. I mean, aren't they the ones giving ravers a bad rap? A couple of punks, who probably deserved it, got beat on, so what?

Right now, raves promote illegal activity, that's just how it is and I don't think you can deny it. Sure, not everyone there uses or distributes drugs, but as long as the minority continue this way, you're going have these raids. Your beef shouldn't be with law enforcement, but with those who caused this to have to happen in the first place.

All this "facism" crap is just a cover for your unwillingness to create a better atmosphere at these parties by yourselves.


My blog Coding Competition
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 01:39 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2005 01:49
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Quote: "Yep, we live in a perfect world, full of druggies dancing like idiots in the woods. Tell me, where'd the need to have these parties in secluded areas come from? Why not rent an amphitheatre, warehouse or stadium like REAL musicians? Are you so ashamed of the crappy music, that you have to hide it at all costs? Is it because of the drugs? Or is it because, this isn't about music at all, but about being rebellious? I think that's what it is. You're just baiting for this sort of thing to happen, so you can publicize your agenda about the goverment's prejudice toward ravers. A prejudice which actually doesn't exist, because the goverment doesn't give a crap about you. Hence why they beat the crap OUT of you."


Wow, Jimmy just owned.


Of course, I'm a sheltered white b1oy, I don't know much about what exactly goes on drug-wise at Rave parties. However, we do have psychedelic rock/reggae concerts here that are all about drugs, in fact they had a raffle thing and gave away a bong at one concert, as if the guy didn't already have six other in his pocket. The beating seems a bit unnecessary, since anybody on drugs would not be much of a thread, stumbling all over the place, and people who weren't on drugs (and were somewhat smart) would just chill and do what the cops told them. Of course it never works that way though. Both sides usually screw it up. Like Mattman said, cops are human, they can screw up just like any raver (just not with drugs ).

Anyway, I support the apprehension of drug dealers. So sucks for you. Have better security guards who will actually make an effort to check at your next party.

[edit]I saw the video, and you guys are pansies. The security guards at my high school break up cafeteria fights tougher than that.


I'm going to eat you!
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Rodan
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 02:13
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1.You don't understand. No one was resisting. 5 cops beating on 1 person is a bit much. This was one sided. Of course the ones at your school looked worse, both sides were fighting.

2. The security guards dug through everyones cars as they came in. SPent at least 5 minutes per car. You can't dig through everyones but cracks man.
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Rodan
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 02:20
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You're calling 15 year old girls pansies huh. I bet you would have run away crying if you were there.

You don't resist a cop. Ever.
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Fallout
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 02:21
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Quote: "The beating seems a bit unnecessary, since anybody on drugs would not be much of a threat"


You've obviously not heard of PCP and users punching through brick walls and lifting cars! I shiz ye not! lol Obviously breaking bones and tearing muscles in the process. I'm glad only E, dope and acid are the popular choices.

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ionstream
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 02:25
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Theres no way in heck that US soldiers would be using old Soviet weapons. This was either a well coordinated terrorist attempt involving breaching of the US borders with well-cloaked helicopters, or a poorly thought out lie.

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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 02:30
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Quote: "And read about the girl who got taken down. I was right next to her, she did nothing to the soldier yet she still got beat up. Sad but totally true."


Wow, you were conveniently right next to the guy who showed the permits to the cops, and right next to the girl who got a beatdown (after hearing word for word her entire convo with the cops), and of course right next to the guy who had 5 cops beat him down.

Just tell the truth about what you did and didn't see. If there were hundreds of people there, you couldn't be everywhere at once. Of course the girl is going to say she didn't do anything to provoke this.

Do you know the girl personally? Do you know if she has a previous history with the police? Maybe she is known as a drug dealer, and was the one supplying the drugs? Cops, as a rule, don't purposely beat up innocent women, because they know crap like that will get out and they'll be sued. Especially if there are 100 people there all listening into the conversations of everyone else, like you said happened.

And saying that you saw the permits, and there were photocopies, etc., is a great laughable alibi. You should be a defense lawyer :-P


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 02:35
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Double post, I know.

After just reading that article Jimmy linked to, it's no freakin' wonder why the cops did what they did. 400 people in attendance, with ecstacy, cocaine, marijuana, alcohol by minors, and police getting assaulted. You have absolutely no idea, do you :-P


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
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Eric T
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 02:36
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I'm just going through the topic randomly, really haven't been at the computer much today, so i'm playing the catch up game.

Quote: "Have better security guards who will actually make an effort to check at your next party."


Dealers get drugs in through their ass cracks, and thats not a joke. Its illegal to check someones ass crack... and it ain't healthy either.

Quote: "I saw the video, and you guys are pansies. The security guards at my high school break up cafeteria fights tougher than that.
"


Thats all nice and well, but breaking up a fight, and beating the sh*t out of someone who isn't resisting is a whole different deal.

Quote: "Yep, we live in a perfect world, full of druggies dancing like idiots in the woods. Tell me, where'd the need to have these parties in secluded areas come from? Why not rent an amphitheatre, warehouse or stadium like REAL musicians? Are you so ashamed of the crappy music, that you have to hide it at all costs? Is it because of the drugs? Or is it because, this isn't about music at all, but about being rebellious? I think that's what it is. You're just baiting for this sort of thing to happen, so you can publicize your agenda about the goverment's prejudice toward ravers. A prejudice which actually doesn't exist, because the goverment doesn't give a crap about you. Hence why they beat the crap OUT of you.""


It is quite a prejudice against ravers though. I have been to Dead concerts, phish concerts, dave mattews band, heavy metal etc. I'll refer to the ones I saw in Usana Ampitheater(sp?) for the sake of the arguement, where there was a large amount of weed, lsd, and all those hallucinigens (sp? no spell checker set up yet ). Those concerts aren't raided, and the security at usana does sh*t less about the drug use there. Hell, the guy right infront of me blew marijuana smoke into the security gaurds face and the gaurd just stood there...

But yet we get a rave, or as KSL (the mormon news) liked to call it this morning, a drug party (which it was not), and the police go in full force with assault rifles and tear gas to a non resisting crowd whom most were there just to listen to some nice DnB. I know i'm not the only person who sees something wrong with it.

http://www.utrave.org/showthread.php?t=20191

Thats a statement from the promoters of the event.

Quote: "though i can;t help but think you're arguement is probably a bit single sided, very few people are ever as innocent as they make out in cases liek this, are you sure that girl didnt like tell them to "f off" or something?"


But of course that meand 3 or 4 officers need to start beating you and pointing guns in your face, because those words hurt their self esteem. I've told cops to "f off" before, i've gotten a smug look. Haven't had a bunch of officers jump on me, and tazer me for that.

Quote: "It looks like they wanted to shock people into not doing it again. That's my interpretation of that report. Pretty crap policing, but it might actually work."


Well theres a pretty big rave happening somewhere more upstate next week I think, can't remember its name though. I'm sure after this, it'll have a huge amount of attendance, even people outside of the electronic community...

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Eric T
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 02:40
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Dbl post, probably...

Quote: "After just reading that article Jimmy linked to, it's no freakin' wonder why the cops did what they did. 400 people in attendance, with ecstacy, cocaine, marijuana, alcohol by minors, and police getting assaulted. You have absolutely no idea, do you :-P"


The SL tribune is owned by the desert news, a very right wing biased mormon based news paper... As they are the only 2 news papers available in Utah, i stick to google news

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Rodan
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 02:44 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2005 02:50
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There were many people being beaten. I was standing in between the camera man, and the girl getting beaten. Right in front of the camera man and the girl getting beaten is the stage where the promoters were. you can see it in the video. I was right there while that stuff was happening. I didn't talk about the countless other people I saw getting beaten down because I didn't see them close enough.

You also got to realize that the permit was being showed before the beatings started happening. So I was able to get some of that before watching the girl getting beat down and then seeing the camera man get beat down next.

The news agencies are run by biased mormons who only tell one side of the story. Much of the info is false. Including the lack of permits, the girl dieing from E (phsyically impossible), There were 1500 people, and the gun belonged to the land-owner.

You'll see in the coming months
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Rodan
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 02:49 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2005 02:50
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oops
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Fallout
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 02:51 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2005 02:53
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I can't see anyone getting beaten in that video mate. I can see two people being pinned to the ground as if arrested, which would be done if they were suspected of something and tried to run or resisted. I can't see any punches being throw after a couple of watches. It looked really peaceful and calm from the video to be honest. The camera man wasn't attacked at all - he was told to stop filming, and then left alone.

If the rave was illegal, which I suspect it was as the police should know full well whether it's legal or not, then from that footage (and it's not much), I'd say it looked like a pretty peaceful bust.

Edit: Sounded like a good night though! I'd be sore if it was crashed before 3am also!

Btw
Quote: "the girl dieing from E (phsyically impossible),"
isn't true. If it's pure, it should be safe unless you're allegic too it, although some people over-hydrate themselves and die from kidney/liver failure. If it's unpure, which is normally is, you can die from any of the manky crap they chuck in there. E itself isn't a dangerous drug, but the actual pills you buy from illegal dealers are rarely the safe stuff, and although deaths from E are very rare, they do occur.

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Ian T
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 04:35
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Seems to me like a legit drug bust. All these stories of beating, police brutality, blah blah blah -- horrible if it really happened, but as the videos show, it didn't. No, they're not letting people LEAVE, and they shouldn't, because the frikkin' point is to arrest the people involved in the dealing of illegal narcotics. Innocent people getting cuffed and taken down to the station for hanging out with a bad crowd is inevitable collatoral damage-- if it went any further it would be a violation of American rights perhaps (hardly a human rights violation I might add, you might want to take a glance at the world around you), but it didn't go further.

Long story short, hang out at a party where loads of illegal drugs are being traded, run the risk of paying the consequences. I don't see why people are so fussed up about the police doing their job for once.

Quote: "The news agencies are run by biased mormons who only tell one side of the story."


Eric or Jimbo can correct me if I'm wrong here but all the major news agencies in Utah are run nationally and have the same left-wing slant as the rest of the national news agenceis save the obvious handful. They're hardly 'run by mormons'.

Quote: " Much of the info is false. Including the lack of permits, the girl dieing from E (phsyically impossible)"


The first thing you couldn't possibly know unless you knew every one of the 1,500 people there, and the second is untrue.

Seems to me you're just ticked off you got busted. If you don't want that to happen, hang out at clean raves .

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TDBoy
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 04:45
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While it is true that people are very prejudice towards ravers (as Jimmy has showed us), it is with reason. I'm not a raver, not much for electronic music as it is, but I trying to sympathize with their plight. Sadly, I can not, really. While the force is a bit excessive, its no harsher than a typical bust. The idea isn't the politely ask everyone to cooperate, but disorient. When people panic they have a tendency to make mistakes, and say things that might possibly be useful against them in a court of law.

My large problem is this war on drugs. I'm not one for government conspiracy's and a right wing agenda, but you have to admit that it is blatently hypocritical. Alcohol is a drug like any other. It alters your mind with the same intensity (but not effects) of pot or coke. But hey, its the taxed drug. They want to fight the other drugs, the ones they are getting a cut of. And they can't get a cut of it, because that would be socially unacceptable. I would call it a hushed agenda, but it isn't hidden. Its simply there.

The war on drugs was the sequel to the failed war on poverty. If you can't fix the problem, attack a side effect, I suppose. Its a good political stance to be for a war on drugs, mostly because its a more visible war. You get to see that war in action, people being taken down. The war on poverty is a more passive one. Its hard to get behind something that most people can't see.

Now you can be for drugs or against them, it doesn't matter. But if you're going to be against mind altering substances, be against them all. Don't pick and chose, because then you just lose your footing.

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Eric T
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 04:45
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Quote: "Eric or Jimbo can correct me if I'm wrong here but all the major news agencies in Utah are run nationally and have the same left-wing slant as the rest of the national news agenceis save the obvious handful. They're hardly 'run by mormons'.
"


Only Fox13, who did play a interview with one of the attendees of the rave might I add... The rest are completely mormon owned. Especially KSL (nbc here), it is litteraly owned by the church... and go as far as replacing regular saturday programming with Mormon conferences and such.

Quote: "The first thing you couldn't possibly know unless you knew every one of the 1,500 people there, and the second is untrue.

Seems to me you're just ticked off you got busted. If you don't want that to happen, hang out at clean raves .
"


And you wouldn't be angry if you had assault rifles pointed at you at a totally legal party?

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JoelJ
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 05:10
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Quote: "The rest are completely mormon owned."

only KSL and Deseret News are Mormon owned.
Oh, wait, Chn 11, maybe 9 and 7, (public channels, you know, the ones with no comercials) are owned by the Mormon Church, so i dont know where you're pulling that out of Eric...

I think from everything i have heard, Rodan is lying and over-reacting (yes, i am calling you a liar now), and that everything they did was needed, shame it had to happen, but just telling everyone to go home before it started, wouldnt have done anything...i'm telling you what, those people will probably never start another rave again

Quote: " You're calling 15 year old girls pansies huh"

15 year old girls at a rave?
does that make you a 15yr old too? no wonder you have no idea what you're talking about...

"people who wear clothing with tech themes for the purpose of gaining a social label are no different than teenagers who wear large sweatpants to look edgy"
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Eric T
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 05:18
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Quote: "only KSL and Deseret News are Mormon owned.
Oh, wait, Chn 11, maybe 9 and 7, (public channels, you know, the ones with no comercials) are owned by the Mormon Church, so i dont know where you're pulling that out of Eric..."


Desert news owns the SL Tribune, they took over I think march this year IIRC.

ABC 4 is not owned directly by the church, but like everything else in this state (the government for example), the church has a nice hand in it.

Our CBS, I am not sure about. It dosen't come on our transponder.

KSL is owned directly by the church.

Not sure who owns fox 13, but their a bit better then the rest.

Quote: "i'm telling you what, those people will probably never start another rave again"


I'm sure their going to start a huge one... soon enough. A make up for Versus II, call it Versus II and a 1/2

Quote: "15 year old girls at a rave?
does that make you a 15yr old too? no wonder you have no idea what you're talking about..."


People who attend raves range from 13 - 30 usually.

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BenDstraw
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 05:58 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2005 05:58
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@TDBoy: You cant include alcohol in the fight on mind altering drugs. Cause in the US they tried a fight like that. Its called prohibiton and that didnt work at all. You have to think about the people using it. If the US were to just make smoking tobacco illegal the resentment that would cause from all the smokers. So I dont really see anything hypocritical. cause illegalizing alcohol wouldnt solve anything except for bootleggers money troubles

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ionstream
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 06:10
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Prohibition failed because they didn't keep things strict enough, and if you think that the world wouldn't be better without alchohol, you need to rethink a lot of things.

Same with drugs or tobacco (although tobacco isn't dangerous to the people who aren't smoking it). All you pot smokers who think that the government shouldn't tell you to not smoke because "they're intruding your lives" should stop trying to influence others.

Have fun dying a lot sooner than us sober folk.

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re faze
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 07:21
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prohibition acutally increased crime and violence

"I am what I am and that is all I can be -J King"
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ionstream
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 07:53
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But it didnt increase deaths, and besides, when everyone would stop being addicted to alcohol, the violence would've stopped.

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Jimmy
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 08:48
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Quote: "KSL is owned directly by the church."


KSL is not owned by the church, but by a member of the church. And yes, he or she chooses what's shown based on their beliefs and that's their prerogative.

I chose the tribune because I believe it is the most unbiased (popular) paper in the state, which isn't really saying much, but it's better than the daily herald or deseret news that's for sure. I don't really know much about that merger, I actually thought it was the other way around. Or that they were just breaking up, or something, I dunno.

Anyway, back on topic.

Quote: "It is quite a prejudice against ravers though. I have been to Dead concerts, phish concerts, dave mattews band, heavy metal etc. I'll refer to the ones I saw in Usana Ampitheater(sp?) for the sake of the arguement, where there was a large amount of weed, lsd, and all those hallucinigens (sp? no spell checker set up yet ). Those concerts aren't raided, and the security at usana does sh*t less about the drug use there. Hell, the guy right infront of me blew marijuana smoke into the security gaurds face and the gaurd just stood there..."


That's what I was trying to get to earlier, kind of... The difference between the two is that raves are typically secretive and "underground" operations, organized without permits. And that underground atmosphere creates a dangerous situation for the young people involved. They believe they're getting away with something just by being there and that they can get away with a lot more before the night is over.

Plus, they wouldn't have the manpower to bust a large concert, which is why, as they said, they raided this one early.

Quote: "There were many people being beaten. I was standing in between the camera man, and the girl getting beaten. Right in front of the camera man and the girl getting beaten is the stage where the promoters were. you can see it in the video. I was right there while that stuff was happening. I didn't talk about the countless other people I saw getting beaten down because I didn't see them close enough."


Well then, you should be in the video... where are you? You're between the girl and the camera, we see the girl, where's the Rodan? Seems to me, that if you were standing there, you would have been beaten.


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 11:19 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2005 11:27
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Quote: "Prohibition failed because they didn't keep things strict enough, and if you think that the world wouldn't be better without alchohol, you need to rethink a lot of things.

Same with drugs or tobacco (although tobacco isn't dangerous to the people who aren't smoking it). All you pot smokers who think that the government shouldn't tell you to not smoke because "they're intruding your lives" should stop trying to influence others.

Have fun dying a lot sooner than us sober folk."


Agreed for the most part.

Quote: "Well then, you should be in the video... where are you? You're between the girl and the camera, we see the girl, where's the Rodan? Seems to me, that if you were standing there, you would have been beaten."


The only logical choice that comes to mind is that Rodan is the girl, was beaten, and is too ashammed to say it. J/K

[edit] Also I am not against them arresting the people doing drugs or drinking alcohol there. I think that drinking or taking drugs (even most legalized drugs ) is wrong when done in public where you can endanger other people's lives. I am very firm in this. I think that all people caught dangerously DUI of any mind altering substance should be shot on site (humanely of course ) to remove them in the this instance and prevent and future instances of public harm. Note I said shot and not beaten. Do all you want just do it at home, where you can only kill yourself.

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 11:48
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Quote: " the girl dieing from E (phsyically impossible)"


oh isnt it? in school we were once made to watch a recording of a girl dying from ecstasy, was all over in a few minutes. it f'cks up the water supply to the brain, and the brain swells up inside the skull and cuts of it's own circulation.

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Eric T
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 11:49 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2005 11:50
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If its pure E, you can't overdose on it. However, it is rumoured that use of E over a prolonged time will result in serious brain damage. Of course, theres no circumstantial proof for either side, so I just stay away from the stuff all together and stick to booze.

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Nemo
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 12:29
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Forget it Rodan, it’s not worth it. Sadly this forum has become increasingly full of badly educated, ill informed neo-nazi weirdoes or republicans as you might call them. I was reading another post yesterday where, among other genius statements, someone actually claimed that ecstasy could make you hear colours.
Now, last time I checked you see things because light bounces off objects and into your eyes and I am fairly certain that no matter how much light hits your ear drum it will never enable you to hear colours. That’s the kind of mentality your up against.
Seriously chaps, before you open your mouths to reiterate something bad you have heard about drug use, think about it. Does it actually make sense? Where did this information come from? What colour is it? That sort of thing.
Just try to ignore the Hitleresque babble that comes out of people like Jimmy, their just to brainwashed to incorporate anyone else’s way of life into their excruciatingly narrow world view.

In the future we will not spank the monkey, the monkey will spank us.
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Fallout
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 13:22 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2005 13:26
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For sure. The people who bash drugs generally are reiterating the brainwashings of their government and schools and society and generally have never tried any of the drugs themselves.

I'm not pro drugs, because I value my health and my life. The chances of dying from the pills you buy are slim, but the fact that people do die from it is enough of a deterant for me. It's the same reason I won't do a bungee jump or a parachute jump (well, I might do that one day - )

So I don't avoid drugs because of a brainwashed prejudice from society. I avoid them because of scientific evidence and studies that my health might be adversely affected. All this ranting about how people get mashed up and become worthless junkies on drugs is misinformed babble from geeky bedroom programmers.

I'm at an ideal age (mid 20s) because I'm old enough to have experienced and have friends that have experienced the drug scene, but have matured beyond it. What I conclude from this is younger people do stupid things, but most of them turn out to be fine adults and most of them don't regret it, nor have any braindamage, constant drooling illnesses, limps, hunchbacks, social problems, 3rd nipples etc. Apart from the hardcore, it's a phase people go through and grow out of which doesn't affect them adversely.

A few observations about drugs from personal experience (either physically, or watching friends) - and none of this is sordid lonely bedroom jacking up in shakes trying to get relief from a painful life bollocks. This is all in a friendly social atmosphere (house party, club etc). I'm purposefully not saying if I've taken this stuff or not because I'm not gonna put myself in the firing line, but my previous statements should be a big clue.

Dont fear the weed. It makes people lathargic, have the munchies and chuckle like schoolgirls. In very rare cases it makes people go a little nutts and want to beat people - I've only seen this once and the person himself was already a nob. Normally people are more friendly. You have the best night sleep of your life afterwards. While you're on it, you're useless, and this can annoy the people around you, so people generally do it in groups so you can all be useless bags of giggling crisp munching wasters together. Bliss.

When you're on E you love everyone. It's a euphoric drug and triggers all the happy emotions and everyone is your friend. Music sounds good when infact its crap. Jokes are funny when infact they're not. You can dance like John Travolta ... at least in your head. In rare cases they get violent, but 99% of the time it's better to bump into a stranger on E at a party than a stranger on anything else (even sober). There's no chance in hell he'll hit you.

Acid/Speed just makes you hyper. Gives you lots of energy and increases your senses a lot - music is much crisper and more powerful. Physically you feel energetic which allows you to get into the whole vibe a lot more. The affects last for hours so it seems to be the drug of choice for all night raves.

Alcohol kills off your inhibitions. A bit like weed and E it makes things more funny, makes you more bold and gets you buzzing. It's a bit of an emotion amplifier, so if you're happy, you're real happy, if you're sad you cry and if you're angry you get violent. I think this drug really brings out peoples true colours (with the loss of inhibitions) hense why a lot of people have a good time. Similarly though, it makes a lot of people violent as they show their true colours for being the nobs they are.

I wonder if we could discuss this now, rather than just slating what we don't know.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 19:21 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2005 19:26
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Quote: "The beating seems a bit unnecessary, since anybody on drugs would not be much of a threat"


I had a "conflict" last year with 4 guys on cocaine, so I'm afraid you got that statement backwards.

And to the rest of you comparing alcohol to drugs along with the whole prohibition cr*p, please grow up. Or atleast drink just one beer if you're the type who hasn't in his entire life.


The future is here, and I can't afford it.
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Jimmy
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 19:32 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2005 19:34
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Quote: "Seriously chaps, before you open your mouths to reiterate something bad you have heard about drug use, think about it. Does it actually make sense? Where did this information come from? What colour is it? That sort of thing.
Just try to ignore the Hitleresque babble that comes out of people like Jimmy, their just to brainwashed to incorporate anyone else’s way of life into their excruciatingly narrow world view."


Look skippy, you can try and justify your own drug use all you want, in fact, I'm going to condone YOUR use in hopes that you'll continue and die as quickly as possible. I haven't been brainwashed into thinking drugs are bad, unless being shown scientific evidence is brainwashing. Oh and let's not forget a little thing called common sense. Some things are made for the body, like food and... clothing. Others are not, like narcotics. I'm going to live the rest of my life without getting high, because I enjoy life already. I take pleasure in less dangerous and more important things.

I'm sorry you don't have that same kind of self control, but if you're going to argue that drug use is NOT bad, then do us all a favor and go OD on pixie stix.

Quote: "Or atleast drink just one beer if you're the type who hasn't in his entire life."


Beer is the nectar of SATTAAANNNNN. ok i will try one.


My blog Coding Competition
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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 19:44
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Quote: "Sadly this forum has become increasingly full of badly educated, ill informed neo-nazi weirdoes or republicans as you might call them."


Get a life... seriously. Because some of us don't condone drugs, it doesn't mean they're reiterating what their momsies and popsies told them when they were 6 years old. Grow half a brain before you start arguing, ok?

And another thing. Obviously I'm not the guy to talk to if you're on an anti-drug campaign, either. Until you have somebody you love overdose on drugs, don't cry foul and wail to a forum spouting the innocence and loveliness of substance abuse.


My "everyone else has one so why can't I?" blog: http://www.jeku.com/blog/
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Fallout
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 19:57
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Quote: "Until you have somebody you love overdose on drugs, don't cry foul and wail to a forum spouting the innocence and loveliness of substance abuse."


That's a genuinely good reason to dislike drugs, but in particular the drug the loved one ODed on.

For all the anti-druggies, it's just worth considering that somebody who has a joint at a party, isn't the same as somebody who jacks up on heroine. In fact, this whole discussion reminds me of an independant study that was commisioned by the government a few years back in the UK. The conclusions were based on death, peoples action while under the influence and long term side effects. They concluded cannabis should be decriminalised, E should be regulated and downgraded (because in it's purest form its not dangerous to the body in the short term, although it may have long term psychological effects), and interestingly alcohol should be upgraded to Class A (because it's responsible for more deaths, violence etc.). The government naturally binned the report because they were hoping for different conclusions.

Ya know, I'm happy with drug laws as they are. I'm happy for people to do whatever they want to themselves too. It is interesting how alcohol is considered so separate from drugs though. One night out in the pub feels a hell of a lot worse than one night indulging in a few jays. Your body is VERY good at telling you whats doing you the most damage.

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ionstream
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 20:15
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Quote: "For sure. The people who bash drugs generally are reiterating the brainwashings of their government and schools and society and generally have never tried any of the drugs themselves."


The people who promote drugs are only saying that because they want to justify their addiction.

Quote: "Your body is VERY good at telling you whats doing you the most damage."


Heh, it'll be a cold day in hell when you can feel malignant cancer.

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Jimmy
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 20:22
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What if you have malignant cold hell cancer?

I felt that when I had it.


My blog Coding Competition
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 23:49
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I have never been to hell. How do I know they don't have an arctic winter season

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Fallout
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2005 23:51 Edited at: 23rd Aug 2005 23:52
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Quote: "Heh, it'll be a cold day in hell when you can feel malignant cancer."


I'm pretty sure you feel it during those months you spend lying in a hospital bed slowly dying.

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TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 00:03
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i personally hate human rights activists, they get in the way of progress, but it sounded like you showed up at the wrong party...

“A lot of people approach risk as if it’s the enemy when it’s really fortune’s accomplice” - Sting“
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 02:58
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Quote: "Your body is VERY good at telling you whats doing you the most damage."


is that why you're body doesnt notice when you're dying of hyperthermia or lack of oxygen?

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Fallout
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 03:04
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Quote: "is that why you're body doesnt notice when you're dying of hyperthermia or lack of oxygen?"


Hmm .. shivering and feeling really cold? Panting and gasping for air?



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re faze
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 22:51
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where im from cops snatch up people all the time with drugs, this guy i know 'T' just got back and he looks like crap, he's 18 and stuck between 10th-11th grade.

Remember: watch what you cook `cause you might get hooked.

"I am what I am and that is all I can be -J King"
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ionstream
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Posted: 24th Aug 2005 23:48
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Quote: "Hmm .. shivering and feeling really cold? Panting and gasping for air?"


You do not feel it when air doesnt get to your brain or vital organs.

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Joe Cooning
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 01:54
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What I have against drugs is actually th elack of freedom involved. People believe in a freedom involved with drug use. The ability to feel like you can do anything. The problem is, is that you can't, and that's the danger of drugs. While on drugs, (illegal or no) You are putting your body at an unneccesary risk. Also, by using drugs, you are putting others around you at risk. Families have died from vehicle accidents with drunk drivers. My brother (whom we adopted) came from a home where drug use was common. He had to have surgury due to lung damage from second hand smoking, and he was only 3 at the time. As for other drugs, often the user is left without control on his/her mind. As for me, I like to have full control of what I am doing. That is more freeing than what I've heard happens from drug use. Go into addictions that so often come with drugs, and you open up a whole new area of restricted freedoms. All the money I earn goes to nessecaties like food, clothing, school, etc. It isn't wasted on satisfying some pointless addiction. Now, some people don't (or at least think they don't) have these addiction problems. Well good for them. But on the other hand, you never can know if you will have an addiction unless you try, and that's a risk I'd rather not take. I've seen how different drugs have destroyed people's lives, and it's not pretty.
As for the rave, the police were originally there (according to the article) for the same reasons you see police at any concert. This one just happened to exceed the limit (people wise) that the permit (for 250) was made for. Add that to illegal drug use (use by minors and illegal drugs), and the police had every right to split things up. They may have been slightly brutal, but that was Utah. They probably see so little action like this, they probably wouldn't know exactly how much force to use.

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indi
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 02:41
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Quote: "They probably see so little action like this, they probably wouldn't know exactly how much force to use."


ignorance is not an excuse to wave peoples rights.

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself 
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Joe Cooning
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 03:09
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I'm sorry, I should have used a smily or somthing to show I was just joking (if you have ever lived in Utah, you'd get it). Besides, what I was also trying to say is that inexperience leads to imperfections.

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indi
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 03:16
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dont sweat it, i dont know the details of utah, only documentaries on tv which depict a biased view of the religous standards there.

I dont know what really happenned so i cant comment, however from the footage of people being beaten by multiple armed officers makes me sick and i fail to see why i would want to visit america if thats what happens in the heart of the united states.

I feel some sepos have forgotten the principles behind the USA, land of the free is more land of the slave.

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself 
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 03:40
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Quote: "You do not feel it when air doesnt get to your brain or vital organs."


That is not quite true. You do not feel it when oxygen doesn't reach your brain (you just get sleepier as the levels go down), but you do feel it when some type of air doesn't enter you body. Of course situations will change the effects of both of these. But for everything that hurts you, your body does let you know. The key is to know what the signs are and how to distinguish between common signs as to when they are from danger or just from normal everyday life. Like getting sleepy can be from it being time to go to sleep, lack of oxygen, lack of vitamins, and etc.

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re faze
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 03:45
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want a good reason not to do drugs? anyone seen that burger king commercial where the guy wakes up next to the burger king king? thats reason enough


(xperiment 627 mutters "Damn, you think you know a guy......")

"I am what I am and that is all I can be -J King"
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Joe Cooning
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 03:56
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If you keep away from illegal activity like this, than you should be perfectly fine. Besides, this isn't slavery. Protecting a person (even from themselves) is not a bad thing. A couple of bruises heal in a week or so, but addictions, and brain damage from drug use, and drug related accidents can often be permenant or much harder to cure.

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Peter H
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Posted: 25th Aug 2005 04:39
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100th post!

hey, some of us have to have our fun in all this heavy conversation

"We make the worst games in the universe."

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