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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Syndicate Remastered Crier

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Wiggett
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 13:59
G'day everyone, I been told by unnamed llama riding parties that a team request should go in here. So let me clear my throat and try and make this sound as formal as possible. *ahem*



G'day everyone, i'm back in town and looking to start up my old projects again. Before I left for Mildura I was working with johnny ree and mustrix on syndicate remastered, a once 2d gone 3d remake of the old syndicate video game series by bullfrog. Now I'm back I want to get back into building this game, however johnny is in a new job and from what I can tell wont be able to help us out much with graphics as he is busy with stuff that makes him money and I havent seen mustrix on msn for a while. So i'm putting out the call to anyone here interested in joining the team or anyone who can get in contact with the guys. Currently there are a myriad of positions available from media to coding to whatever else there is. I'm managing the project and adding what I can here and there to media things but i'm a horrible coder, so I will be managing the "what can we put in there" end of coding. not the tedious typing stuff in part. Let me put down position descriptions:

1. Engine coder;
No test engine has been made so far, however models and game theory have been devised and I will be looking for people to code a suitable engine for our game world. For more info on such contact me by email.

2. Auxilary coder;
After a basic engine is created the auxillary coders will work on game dynamics, working with the game design team to help implement the features we want in Syndicate remastered.

3. 3d Media artistry;
We have a few models already primed for the game, aswell as concept art for further models, I myself will also be doing some scenery modelling. However we will need some more model work done, and there is a spot free for anyone with sci-fi cyberpunk themed work.

4. 2d imagery;
Textures, concept art, any graphics work that isn't 3d. Again I will do some of this myself, but we could use plenty more help with making textures and if anyone wants to donate concept art they are welcome.

5. Music/sound artistry;
Yep, a big part of the game will be sound and music. I'm soon to be setting up a sound workshop thingy to start making music, however we will need some sci-fi sounds, and if oyu can mimic the music from teh original syndicate games that would be great.


That's all I can think of position wise. I should state now this is a hobby project and no plans for releasing commercially have been made as of yet. I want to concentrate on getting a test engine up first, then working on game dynamics. so far the work has only been on concept and game theory & design,(with a littl ebit of pre alpha engine testing ) so there is still a lot of work to be done, anyone interested contact me by email at [email protected]. feel free to add me to msn if you want to chat, an dif any mods don't like this post then put it wherever you think is necessary, preferably not the bin but hey!


*some of the models done by mustrix.*

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 14:35 Edited at: 27th Oct 2005 14:47
Quote: "but i'm a horrible coder, so I will be managing the "what can we put in there" end of coding. not the tedious typing stuff in part. "


What exactly are your skills?

And a very serious question, why should advanced programmers and modelers place themselves under you for a game that those with more advanced skills could headline themselves? 2D scenery is a pretty small part of such a game.

zircher
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 15:30
The Dread Pirate Wiggett has been a DBP idea guy for quite a while and I respect his design skills. Unfortunately, I don't have the free time to back up my approval by joining his team.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 15:37 Edited at: 27th Oct 2005 15:39
I'm not asking about design skills. I'm asking about the skills that require the work. If I coded, I'd be doing most of the work. Yet, it would still be his game. That doesn't make sense to me.

How much work is it for the designer to remake a game anyway?

Wiggett - question number 2: What project(s) have you completed to date?

Wiggett
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 15:43
actually this game is pretty much through the sdesign stage, it started out at the end of 2003 as a full remake in 2d isometric. Van-b coded a lil sampler fo rlettign the sprites i had worked on run round the isometric level I had made. For now I'm just doing project planning, game design and some media work, infact I just finished makign this building quickly in milkshape and will now be converting it to medieval fantasy for aura's agm,


I'm horrible when it comes to coding as I'm not very knowledgeable in it. And it's not MY project, it was originally but as with all of my projects I get other people's help and thus it becomes everyone who is involved's project. Otherwise known as a team. And in this case it i sa lot of work for the designer, i'm remaking a 2d team action/strategy game into 3d, so I need to translate the 2d environment into a 3d perspective while keeping the original elements of the 2d version. Which has infact been discuessed between mustrix and I oh so long ago.

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 16:00
What projects have you completed?

Wiggett
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 16:11 Edited at: 27th Oct 2005 16:11
haha funny you should mention that, I dont think that since joinin db in 99 i've completed 1 proper project. Though I have a host of little projects that i made to test my media in. I did get close to a proper game with a shooter i made, it was a vietnam war one where you stand at a flag in teh middle fo a jungle, shooting vc's, I don't know just how far i got with it, i think you can shoot them but no one gets hurt. Aren't I nice. Other than that its mostly just demo engines and work for other peoples games. And a hell of a lot of game ideas/theory. Are you trying to belittle me?
vietnam game picture>

and while we're at it, more awesomeness work from johnny ree who just came online


Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 16:34
Quote: "Are you trying to belittle me? "


I was asking a serious question. I believe that such things matter. But, you appear to be sensitive, so I'll stop.

Anyway, good luck with the game.

Wiggett
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 16:46
thats ok, thanks

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 17:10
Syndicate rocked!!! I'd love to help - but I barely have time to eat dinner - let alone code for fun! :-(

David R
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 17:47 Edited at: 27th Oct 2005 17:48
Will you need level editors etc. and tools for this project? I'm a very obsessive person who thoroughly enjoys making level editors.Its a problem I have

But I suppose if your in need of a level editor I could definately help out

A picture is supplied of the editor for my current game (Attached)

Also, is syndicate availible from underdogs.com or something, as a download? Its been ages since I've played it, and I would like to give my self a reminder of it...


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Wiggett
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 18:22
not sure if u can get a legit versionf rom underdogs, but yeah we will need world building, thatd coem under 3d art. i will have a look at ur program when i wake up tomorrow, as mustrix was working on teh world thing i wanna chat to him befor ei go finalizing stuff, cause we had an idea for the way teh game world works. will post again tomorrow.

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 19:21
I would have thought the origional would be available.. I think even Syndicate Wars is now.. If not - you could part with £5 of your heard earned pocket money/pirate loot.

Wiggett
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 00:49
hey hey everybody, I was just cleanin up the several gig of junk on my pc and i found my old syndicate models folder! along with a model that mustrix did! it's un textured though, but it does have a uv mapped texture, so download this little strumpet of a file and have a go at putting together a texture, then send it back my way and I will put the best one on to use in our test demo that will be arrivign shortly. The texture will only be used for the place holder model in the demo as I think mustrix has already made a skin, but he might not have a copy anymore :/ anyway take this!

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Peter H
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Posted: 10th Nov 2005 16:13
Yikes, it's kind of hard to tell what is what in that UV map....

I would love to help but i'm in the same boat as zircher (hey! stop shoving! ) i don't have any time to help you

*random support of this project*

@Cash Curtis II- It's good that you want to make sure this project is legit, but anybody who's been around long enough to have skills to join this project (not saying i have skills ) would most likely know wiggett enough to not need any background information.

Of course if you yourself were thinking about joining the project then by all means ask him questions... but if not then don't harass him so much...


--Peter

"We make the worst games in the universe."

Tapewormz
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Posted: 11th Nov 2005 01:05
You gotta have the gauss gun. If you don't, i'll find where you live and pee on you.

Gauss gun gave me wood in that game. BOOM!

Tapewormz
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Posted: 11th Nov 2005 01:42
Quote: "it's not MY project, it was originally but as with all of my projects I get other people's help and thus it becomes everyone who is involved's project"


That's called management.

I'm a huge fan of Syndicate, I even drew a four issue comic book based on the game.

Your concept artist is really good, and the modelling looks nice. I like that speed painting alot. I've done some artwork, http://tapewormz.deviantart.com

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 11th Nov 2005 02:00 Edited at: 11th Nov 2005 02:02
Peter_
Quote: "@Cash Curtis II- It's good that you want to make sure this project is legit, but anybody who's been around long enough to have skills to join this project (not saying i have skills ) would most likely know wiggett enough to not need any background information."


So, what you're saying is, I don't have the skills necessary since I haven't been around long enough? Ouch, I thought my last game was pretty good.

I'm a Syndicate fan. If I knew if he was legit, I wouldn't have asked. I am immediately put off by his grammer and his many projects. Still, I don't know anything about him. So, I asked questions. He answered them, and I was satisfied. I chose not to participate. Then I wished him good luck with the game. Is there an issue I'm not aware of?

Mattman
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Posted: 11th Nov 2005 04:27
I agree with Peter that Cash Curtis needs to shutup. He's legit alright.
zircher
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Posted: 11th Nov 2005 05:40
Wiggett, do you have a list of weapons that you want to include in the game? While my character modelling skills are not the best, I'm fairly competent at gizmos and gear and I'd like to contribute some low poly weapons to the project.

How close to the orginal game do you want SRM to be? I might be able to whip up some vehicles as well.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Crazy andy
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Posted: 11th Nov 2005 07:24
Glad to see this project back

I remember the first time, wonder what happened to it.

I would help, Only my programming skill are really rusty at moment (haven't done any real programming due to work taking up all my time, even change jobs twice and still havent time) and my art skill need polishing up too (Just got paint shop Pro 9, Yay).

So, to be blunt, i wouldn't be much help

So, i just wish you luck and get back to getting my skill back on track. Hopeing to have a lot more free time next year

To try this, I've got to be nuts!!!
Wiggett
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Posted: 11th Nov 2005 07:33 Edited at: 11th Nov 2005 07:48
yeah thats why i posted the uv map, i cant make heads or tails .awesome zirch, yeah all the original guns 9including the gauss and the persuadatron) will be in the game. And if you wanna do some vehicles go ahead! that would be awesome. We have a new person on our dev team, sheldon is his name, and he is helping code with justin, he has made a level editor (basic one) that we will use to make the levels for the demo. adding in object placement last i heard but i had to go to work. And as for you cash curtis its ok man i'm not offended I understand that there is a lot of spam on this forum talkin about designing a game etc, but I have been here a long time, i'm not just a 12 year old with a mmog dream, though i would love to have multiplayer in this

David T
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Posted: 11th Nov 2005 10:10
Quote: "I agree with Peter that Cash Curtis needs to shutup. He's legit alright. "


Thing is Wigget's been away so long some people whove never known him might think he's the usual type who creates TR's.

I can say wholeheartedly that wigget isn't

Anyway wigget, nice to see you back, sorry I haven't got much time to help with this however if you email me I can give you my MSN and I can help you with random things (like physics?)

"A book. If u know something why cant u make a kool game or prog.
come on now. A book. I hate books. book is stupid. I know that I need codes but I dont know the codes"
Baggers
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Posted: 11th Nov 2005 10:41
Cash Curtis II: You know how people treat Jimmy with endering reverence although if someone else said similar things we would flame them? Its the same with projects and Wigget.
As legit goes, he is the dogs danglies.
Not trying to undermine you man, i'd be first to ask if I didnt know the Wigget.

Wiggett
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Posted: 11th Nov 2005 12:39
wow great to know im so loved anyway yeah i will add you david, might get some help for justin and sheldon as I think they are going to use a dll for physics that justin isn't used to, also ther ewas something with random AI that I was gonna ask van b if he had time to teach justin about, cause it was similar to the work he did oh so long ago.

Van B
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Posted: 11th Nov 2005 12:56
I'd be happy to help with AI as much as I can Wigget, just drop me an email when the time comes. I might get to work on a little demo with pathfinding, following, evasion, the stuff that you'd need.


Van-B

Put away, those fiery biscuits!
Wiggett
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Posted: 11th Nov 2005 13:23
awesome, thanks Van, I was going over it with justin, I actually meant pathfinding not AI, but I'm sure there will be some of it involved anyway. WIll contact you when we get up to it

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 11th Nov 2005 14:18 Edited at: 11th Nov 2005 14:19
Peter_ and Mattman:

What's your problem? This was long over and done. I asked him questions and he answered them. It was done.

Then Peter_, 14 days after my last post, comes to tell me to stop harrassing him. Then, I told my reasons for asking him the questions in the first place. Then Mattman jumps right in. Check the dates moron. Shut up what? THIS HAS BEEN OVER FOREVER.

Do the two of you just like to bring back dead topics without reading them? Apparently, that's what happened. I've never insulted Wiggett. I've only asked someone I didn't know some questions. Is there something wrong with that?

Reaperman
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Posted: 11th Nov 2005 14:50
Wiggett, nice to see you back.

Hope the game goes well this time, but a question for you:

Why did you stop with the 2D game? It was starting to shape up, so why drop it?

Cheers
Reaperman
Peter H
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Posted: 11th Nov 2005 16:13
@Cash-
Quote: "So, what you're saying is, I don't have the skills necessary since I haven't been around long enough? Ouch, I thought my last game was pretty good."

not at all! If you notice i added this
Quote: "Of course if you yourself were thinking about joining the project then by all means ask him questions"

which, although i didn't directly say it i was trying to say that if you yourself do have "skills" but just recently joined the forum (yes people do have experience before this forum sometimes ) then i retracted my statements...

anyway, i would talk more but as you've already said THIS HAS BEEN OVER FOREVER. I only posted to let you know that i'm sorry i got the dates mixed up and i didn't mean to insult you

so let's let wiggett get on with it...

"We make the worst games in the universe."

Wiggett
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Posted: 12th Nov 2005 03:27
yeah no flame wars in this thread thanks, it's all above board here, did i mention we had a level editor for our demo? i think i did, well le tme give you a screen



Phaelax
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Posted: 12th Nov 2005 09:29
That last character concept drawing you posted reminds me a lot of one of the bad guys in Lensman, and old 80's anime.


Deadly Night Assassins
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 12th Nov 2005 09:33 Edited at: 12th Nov 2005 10:01
Peter_
Quote: "anyway, i would talk more but as you've already said THIS HAS BEEN OVER FOREVER. I only posted to let you know that i'm sorry i got the dates mixed up and i didn't mean to insult you "


Cool.

-- The level editor is looking good.

zircher
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Posted: 13th Nov 2005 18:56
As part of my research into this project, I've been looking for ways to take screen captures of Syndicate. This has always been a chore since the game does a good job of high jacking the mouse and keyboard events.

I have found a partial solution. If I use DOSBox 0.63, I can take all the screen and audio captures I want. Unfortunately, Syndicate bombs inside of the tactical combat screens when you try to use the mouse. Luckily, I can use the cursor keys at the beginning of mission to survey the map and capture images of vehicles and such.

That gives most of the views for passenger vehicles, APCs, the police car, the train, and the ambulance. And, I have the equipment images from all the purchase screens. [Cheat codes are your friend for a mission like this.]

I don't plan to do a pixel by pixel recreation of the static models, but having the images from the original game will come in handy. Just for fun, I picked up Syndicate Plus on Ebay. Does the American Revolt expansion include any gadgets or vehicles that I'd be interested in?
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Wiggett
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Posted: 14th Nov 2005 01:04
not too sure, the only syndicates i've been able to play have been the snes version of syndicate, and then syndicate wars on the ps1, which remind sme if anyone has a pal version cartridge of syndicate i am looking to buy... also yeah I just stole shots from the zsnes syndicate off the snes verson, used it for grahpics for the old 2d remake that van b helped me do. was cool i had the red agent all animated to walk around, then van b made these crasy monkeys on bouncy balls, was a classic. But anyway yeah thanks for making models zirch, we got a new version level editor comin up with mouse control and it looks top notch thanks to sheldon, soon enough will have a demo for you guys! i can't belive it, A DEMO!

zircher
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Posted: 14th Nov 2005 03:02 Edited at: 5th Jan 2006 06:51
Fair enough, it should be here next week and I can check it out then. Just for fun here are some items from the original PC game that I'm tempted to take a crack at.

http://www.virmin.com/synd_items.PNG

None of these items are animated unto themselves with the exception of the mini-gun. Some programming details to possibly consider are animated textures for the mini-gun barrels, the scanner display, and the display on the time bomb. Additionally, the ambulance has blinking blue lights and the police have alternating red and blue lights. Trying to make these dynamic lights is probably too much, but one idea might be to do more texture animation to fake the effect.
--
TAZ

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"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Xenocythe
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Posted: 14th Nov 2005 03:05
This game looks real nice!
zircher
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Posted: 14th Nov 2005 03:14
Just to make sure we're on the same page, Xenocythe. The images I posted are from the 1993 PC version of the game. That's what I'll be using as my concept art. Of course, I might exercise artistic license and re-do the gauss pistol and laser.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Wiggett
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Posted: 14th Nov 2005 04:16
lol man zircher they are so much better than the snes graphics but yeah if you want go for it dude I could use teh help on models as my modelling lately has become pretty bad. cant wait to see the persuadertron, Also yeah it will prolly just be animated texturing for the glowing lights. What i have planned for that is having everything pretty dark, and on the editor having certain objects emit light, say the lamp posts will emit a standard light, and the neon signs will emit coloured lights. There will also be many exterior maps that will have w rain as a weather effect. And as all the business gets done at night, there will be many a dark alley to creep around in. But yeah i will talk to the coders about how to deal with lights emitting from moving objects etc.

zircher
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Posted: 14th Nov 2005 04:28
Your programmers will remind you that there are a finite number of dynamic lights that you can have in any one scene. Given the current technology, that's eight total for real time scenes.

Fortunately, most of the lighting in a scene can be pre-calculated and there is no need to display lights if they can not be seen. So, you can juggle your resources.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Wiggett
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Posted: 14th Nov 2005 05:08
yeah that was trouble i was having ages ago when i was making a 1st person test with syndicate, couldnt get enough lights. Will figure out some theories on how to overcome such an obstacle using fake lighting, ambient lighting etc. also i found some guns by psionic, might use them as stand ins caus ethey look hell of sweet, but i'd still like to see what you model off the old shots.

Van B
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Posted: 14th Nov 2005 13:51
LOL! - you just reminded me of those lil monkies , I should make a animated .gif version and harass Rich into making him a smilie.

For lightmapping, you should just disregard it for now - there's some neat lightmapping commands being added to DBPro soon, as well as CSG stuff - so I'd just wait and see what TGC do for you before worrying about lighting. In the worst case scenario I have a vertice lightmapper that would probably work and would suit a dark environment like Syndicate.


Van-B

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Wiggett
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Posted: 15th Nov 2005 00:18
haha excellent, those monkey's rock, they remind me of the gorillaz dudes. And yeah ok, lighting was pretty far along the list so we can hol dout for now.

Tapewormz
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Posted: 15th Nov 2005 04:43 Edited at: 15th Nov 2005 04:46
How about a remake of captive? That would be sweet too.

Van B
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Posted: 15th Nov 2005 09:15
I'd love that Tapewormz, Cappo is my all time favourite game, still play it on STeem .


Van-B

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Tapewormz
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Posted: 16th Nov 2005 07:13
Captive and Captive 2 (Liberation) was really impressive. Story was neat, you use your laptop to try and find and rescue yourself remotely using your androids.

zircher
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Posted: 16th Nov 2005 14:14
Just so you all don't think that I've fallen in a hole, first draft of the persuadertron came in at 495 polygons. While that might work for an FPS, that's a little on the heavy side for a real time game where there might be dozens of people and dozens of weapons in play. So, I'm going to go back in and trim it down.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Wiggett
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Posted: 17th Nov 2005 09:02
sounds cool zirch, take ur time with teh models, as our level editing person has decided to make his level editor a pro program, working on it till january to give it heaps of detailling and release it as a commercial product, so the engine wont start until further on, maybe late december. For now me and Justin are working on some other projects. Including a new secret Idea of mine based on an old Idea that I had. Keeping it a secret for now so cash curti$ doesn't start hassling me again but knowing me I will write up a big document about it and post it soon enough, I just get so excite dabout my ideas.

zircher
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 03:01 Edited at: 18th Nov 2005 03:03
That works for me since I'm doing these in my spare time.

One thing that caught me off guard was that there is more than one Syndicate experience. There is a radical difference between the console versions and the PC version. My son Justin showed me the Sega(?) version last night and like OMG!!! It was so cartoony. No cops to shoot, no bodies laying around, no pools of blood or charred ashes, no (apparent) car jacking, limited animation, and cities so cheerfully bright I thought I was in Mario land. It was a pale shadow (literally) of the PC game.

I hope you're gunning for the dark GTA-like sequel and not the toony version.

I'll post some pics after I have a few more of the weapons done.

BTW, would you all be interested in more screen shots from the PC version in order to compare the differences between that and the console versions?
--
TAZ

Just a thought, should the moderators move this thread to the WIP board since there is um... work in progress?

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Wiggett
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Posted: 18th Nov 2005 07:18
nah we can keep it here for now, when I get some more screens and a test engine thingy I will make a proper wip thread. And yeah the game is a whole lot different i've got a haxxorzed version of syndicate on the pc, its way harder, and in teh snes version yes you could steal cars but they were much harder to control. yes it wil be more dark and dreary than the supernes, although I did like the neon lighting So don't worry bout sending me screens, just keep modelling the way you feel it needs to be modelled

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