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DarkBASIC Discussion / Screen FPS and lightmapping

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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 20:46 Edited at: 28th Nov 2005 20:49
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there goes another one with too much time on his hands...

Quote: "One word: sync."


Quote: "the point...

they keep talking about sync being faster and all that... but that's not the point of anything i said above... only a non experienced coder would use sync to make a program run as fast as it can, and, like i said above, when it is moved to another machine, it runs at a different frame rate... "


59 words to try and help you comprehend the point i'm making... as opposed to your one word...


--Mike
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_Nemesis_
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 20:47
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What was wrong in the way he spoke to you? He told you were completely wrong and that it was against what he had been teaching people. There was nothing offensive or insulting in that post; I think you're getting a 'lil' wound up over something that wasn't there to start with.

[url="http://www.devhat.net"]www.devhat.net[/url] :: Devhat IRC Network.
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 20:48 Edited at: 28th Nov 2005 20:49
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Quote: "there goes another one with too much time on his hands..."


Speak for yourself. You're "at work", and seem to have time to ban yourself out of this forum.

Or did you say that because you couldn't think of a reply?

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Uncle Sam
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 20:53 Edited at: 28th Nov 2005 20:59
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Quote: "He told you were completely wrong and that it was against what he had been teaching people. "

no, you're wrong... what he said, and i quote, was...
Quote: "Red Ocktober, that's a really stupid idea. "


if he had said that i was completely wrong, like you imagined, i woudn't have responded differently... it's all about civility... and the lack there of...

Quote: "Speak for yourself. You're "at work", and seem to have time "

i am speaking for myself... and i own the company... i can waste my time as i see fit...

the same people... it's like someone ran a bell and they all popped up... funny how none of you were even involved in the initial conversation... but you have to jump in with your lil remarks...

hopefully, the same moderators will come around and lock this thread... because it has gone waayyyyy off the original topic...

--Mike
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 20:58
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Quote: "i am speaking for myself... and i own the company... i can waste my time as i see fit..."


I feel bad for the company.

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Uncle Sam
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_Nemesis_
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 20:59 Edited at: 28th Nov 2005 20:59
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Quote: "if he had said that i was completely wrong, i woudn't have responded in kind..."

Same statement applies.. He told you it was a stupid idea and he gave a valid reason why. Your idea was completely wrong for what he was intending to do, thus stupid.

Quote: "sorry, i'm busy... plus i need access to this forum... so i'm not gonna be baited by your foolishness again...

you'll have to find someone else to play with..."

Likewise, I'm sure - though I'd like you to note, none of us have been banned as of yet.

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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 20:59 Edited at: 28th Nov 2005 21:09
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@ unc sam...
you can feel bad for whatever you want... that's your perogative...
it doesn't affect me or my company one way or the other...

@ IV whatever...
Quote: "none of us have been banned as of yet."
irrelevant... and incorrect... Benjamin was given the same accordance...

Quote: "Your idea was completely wrong for what he was intending to do, thus stupid."


so is your lack of comprehension... having a game run as fast as it can, with no control is the stupid idea, as far as i'm concerned... and so will anyone else with any experience writing software that has to run on more than one computer, or has to run in a multi player networked environment... as was said above...
maybe you should take the time to read and try and understand what you are reading before making baseless remarks...

by the way, where is your game... what are you two working on as of now that you have so much time and advice to volunteer... show me something... anything...

--Mike
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 21:08 Edited at: 28th Nov 2005 21:10
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http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=8&t=63805&p=0

All made with the 30-day trial.

And when DB Pro arrives...

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Uncle Sam
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_Nemesis_
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 21:11
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Quote: "Quote: "
Walk#=(WalkSpeed/14)*(timer()-MovementLast)
MovementLast=timer()
""


I quote from blanky, showing that you can easily have a game running as fast as it can WITH control.

Quote: "... or has to run in a multi player networked environment... as was said above... maybe you should take the time to read and try and understand what you are reading before making baseless remarks..."

You were saying?...

Quote: "by the way, where is your game... what are you two working on as of now that you have so much time and advice to volunteer...
"


I don't use DBP to make games personally.

Quote: "what are you two working on as of now that you have so much time and advice to volunteer..."

Not working on anything in particular, a bit of this and a bit of that. Trying to pick up as much as I can.

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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 21:12 Edited at: 28th Nov 2005 21:32
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well... at least that's a start... my suggestion to you is, go work on it... develop some added texturing skills...

and that's being a lot kinder than the people who responded to your screenshots in the thread...

but hey, at least you had something to show...


here's a few of mine...







each done in a different development environments... 3DRAD, Blitz3D, Torque Shader Engine...


and finally, one from my eval of DBPro...


--Mike
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_Nemesis_
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 21:15 Edited at: 28th Nov 2005 21:18
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Quote: "well... at least that's a start... my suggestion to you is, go work on it... develop some added texturing skills..."


OK, you've insulted near enough everyone who partipated in this thread, and now that includes me and Uncle Sam. So i'm going to leave it there. But as a final note...

Quote: "here's a few of mine...

--Mike "

Ahem.. I like your advice, i can see you put it to good use!

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 21:20 Edited at: 28th Nov 2005 21:21
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@IV E IVI E S I S

That was un-called for. Can't you see he's trying to be nice?

@Red Ocktober

I think it's time we make up; sorry I insulted your company.

EDIT: sweet screens.

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Uncle Sam
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 21:23
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Quote: "OK, you've insulted near enough everyone who partipated in this thread, and now that includes me and Uncle Sam."
no... you've insulted yourself... with the lack of comprehension displayed, and your predilection for jumping on someone who is trying to help someone else...

you had no reason to post in here...

and, just like you fail to answer some of the other questions, you still fail to answer the last one...

where's some of your work...

at least the other guy had something to show... it wasn't much, but at least he is working on something...

that in itself gives anything he has to say more credibility than anything you've said so far...

--Mike
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 21:27
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Once DBPro comes, I'll be continuing work on it.

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Uncle Sam
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_Nemesis_
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 21:29 Edited at: 28th Nov 2005 21:31
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Quote: "That was un-called for. Can't you see he's trying to be nice?"

Sorry, misinterpreted...thought he was referring to my above comment.
Quote: "where's some of your work...

at least the other guy had something to show... it wasn't much, but at least he is working on something...

that in itself gives anything he has to say more credibility than anything you've said so far...

"

True, yet you haven't been invited to my house to see my workstations. Like i said, i don't use DBP for games.

Regardless, I was kinda hoping this thread would have got locked when it was off topic - but anyways, Like i said, I'm gone.

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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 21:35
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Quote: "True, yet you haven't been invited to my house to see my workstations. Like i said, i don't use DBP for games."

that's a weak excuse... just post a screenshot of anything you're working on... in anything, FPSC, VB, Gamemaker, anything...

--Mike
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 21:43 Edited at: 28th Nov 2005 21:44
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Did you mention Game Maker? That's an amazing program. I've had it for about 2 years, and have made about 60 unfinished projects!

EDIT: er, make that about 50.

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Uncle Sam
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 21:45
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--Mike
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_Nemesis_
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 21:50
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To satisfy your request...
There's nothing to screenshot really, that's about it. The effect and the scripts are the only things noticable.
Like i say, what, 3 posts ago? I'm going to abandon this thread now, it's got out of control.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 22:43
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Quote: "irrelevant... and incorrect... Benjamin was given the same accordance... "

If you are saying I got banned, you are wrong. I've been completely reasonable in this thread, I have not thrown an insult once, there is no reason for me to have been banned. You on the other hand..

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SimSmall
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 22:58
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Quote: "Benjamin was given the same accordance..."


I know I got a 24-hour ban, but then I guess I deserved it by carrying on long after october's ban was dished out...

...maybe one day I'll finish a project
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 28th Nov 2005 23:10
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Oh, come on, guys, can't you just forget it? The argument ended on the last page.

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Uncle Sam
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 01:26 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 06:22
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Wow Red, you just come back swinging and misspelling. How can I quit with something like this?
Quote: "... and why the moderaators would allow it to remain posted as it is clearly against the rules put forth in the forum ettiquette... not to mention that the kid saying it couldn't even keep up with me in my morning regiment... he should've been with me when i start my bench presses, i'd luv to see him bench 200Lbs... which is where i start... or do a two mile run with me before that...
"

You start at 200? What do you end at, the hospital?

You don't know anything about me. I bench 280, I won the Iron Person award at my Primary Leadership Development Program in the Army, and I'm currently the fastest sprinter in my wife's unit (I'm a civilian now), I just won the trophy for the 100 yard dash in the Turkey Bowl. I run my 2 mile in 12:06, currently. I used to be faster. In the military I'd consistently overmax my PT test, my highest was 391 out of 300. I have the paperwork to prove everything I've said. I'd 'luv' to know your stats.

Here's the thing - this place is about programming and game making, not what I do in my spare time. Nobody cares. And I sure don't care about your geriatric workouts, with you taunting me after I've already lapped you twice. I don't reply as such to brag, only to show you that insulting me physically is pointless.

Why do the moderators allow this? I imagine they don't like you and like seeing you get a little of your own medicine. I sure don't like you. You're condescending and petty. Hey, how much does anyone bet he'll quote me and say I'm the one being condescending and petty?

Well, you posed a question and I answered it. I hope that ends that.

Quote: "only a non experienced coder would use sync to make a program run as fast as it can, and, like i said above, when it is moved to another machine, it runs at a different frame rate...
they take non of this into account...
what about logic frequency... non of em even has any idea how both of these combine to affect how a game plays across different machines...
suppose it was a multiplayer game... and one machine is spinning away at 200 fps, and the other barely at 50..."

Well, that's just dead wrong. The sync command keeps a scene from updating in the middle of an update. That decreases program waste and eliminates flicker. And, you can still set the maximum refresh limit. I use Sync at 60 fps, works a charm. However, that does not change the distance that objects will travel based on mathematical calculation. I base everything on timer movements, so it will run the same speed on a slower or faster program. It just works more efficiently and smoother. Timer based movements make movements across different systems uniform, not the fps. FPS is not dependent of the other game math that the program will be performing, in my case, 5 megabytes of memory table data shared between entities and objects.


Pong y2k.5 - Balls of Steel, Beta http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=60999&b=8
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dark coder
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 01:57
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i fail to see how you can insult out texturing skills when that sub looks like it has some badly placed photoskins with seams everywhere.

and your crew look like a folded mattrace with an assortment of ms paint colours sprincled ontop.


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Impreza
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 02:22
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ok, ok, ok..

time to break it up..

come on guys, give the guy a break..
he is just as hard working as all of us
he doesn't want any trouble he just wants some respect..
don't we all deserve some respect???..

you know the answer to that is yes. now play nicely.

set mipmap mode 1: set matrix texture 1,1,1: set spot light 1,0,90: set normalization on: sync rate 0: statistic(1): flush video memory
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geecee3
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 03:52 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 15:00
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ok here is the simple fact, and it has always been simple fact no matter what language you are using to make games.

use of the manual sync command is a necessity if you want to maintain a smooth framerate and have a glitch free display. there is no other way to sync the redraw with the vertical blank, anyone with more than several braincells should know this. automatic syncing is more of a failsafe than a usable system.

If I was to run my latest game without manual syncing, I would have some game elements that have been updated internally being displayed before others, this would not be acceptable. what is the point of drawing to the screen halfway through a scan? none.

to automatically sync goes against everything i have ever learned about realtime graphics and games, and when you consider the fact that i have been using and programming the technology for over 23 years, it's impossible to even entertain the concept of auto syncing.

red dude should just accept the fact that he does not have the firt clue what he's talking about and should learn to accept when he's wrong.

a harsh thing is reality, accept it red dude.

grant.

Ohd Chinese Ploverb say : Wise Eskimo, not eat yerrow snow.
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 15:05 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 16:05
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@ cash curtis...
Quote: "Wow Red, you just come back swinging and misspelling. How can I quit with something like this?"

you have nothing to say... so you appoint yourself as a spelling wizard... hahahaa, what a joke... as for swinging, it's all in your mind...

Quote: "You don't know anything about me. I bench 280, I won the Iron Person award at my Primary Leadership Development Program in the Army, and I'm currently the fastest sprinter in my wife's unit (I'm a civilian now), I just won the trophy for the 100 yard dash in the Turkey Bowl. I run my 2 mile in 12:06, currently. I used to be faster. In the military I'd consistently overmax my PT test, my highest was 391 out of 300. I have the paperwork to prove everything I've said. I'd 'luv' to know your stats.
"
i served in the military for over 10 years in the 70s/80s during the latter stage of vietnam... so don't hand me any of your grunt crap nugget... also, i have family in Chiba Japan... and the last time i've been to Oki was around 2 years ago...

so, if you are naive enough to think that the internet makes you an anonymous entity, then go ahead... but you have no idea what i know about you... i did my homework on you the 2nd day you started your foolishness...

secondly... all that stuff you posted above, especially the benching 280, is in your dreams and a product of your imagination... at basic training everyone is required to do that all that pt crap, that's nothing special...
from what i can see of you, you're not capable of lifting yourself up, much less 280 lbs... no wonder you're always referring to doctors and hospitals...

and you are always referring to my spelling in your posts... is it because you work in an office, shuffling papers, and taking dictation... like a secretary...

but, it's all ok... i'm going to be in the region for the holidays, and my plans right now are for me to visit a friend on the island...

maybe we can meet... at the nco club, and discuss weight lifting, my wheel chair, and whatever else you think is appropriate... over a few drinks... huh... i'm so looking forward to it.

@ geece...
Quote: "If I was to run my latest game without manual syncing, I would have some game elements that have been updated internally being displayed before others, "
and what game is this geece, maybe you can let us see a lil of it... and what do you mean, updated internally being shown before others... oh boyyyyy... anyway, lets see this gem of a game... if it exists at all...
Quote: "to automatically sync goes against everything i have ever learned about realtime graphics and games,"
well, maybe you outta go back to school and learn from some people who know what they are talking about...

@ dark coder...
Quote: "i fail to see how you can insult out texturing skills when that sub looks like it has some badly placed photoskins with seams everywhere."
our texturing skillz... you said our... i haven't seen any example of anything you've done yet... as far as i know, you have no texturing skillz to insult in the first place...
besides... there was no insult... uncle sam wasn't insulted in the critique i gave him... as a matter of fact, he took it as would anyone with a lil self confidence, as a critique... only a childish personality like yours would be insulted by a reasonable criticism...

@ impreza...
yours is one of the few sane minds in this zoo... thanks for trying to level this out, but you are wasting your time with this lot...
i don't want any respect from any of em... i don't need it... most of em would have to learn to respect themselves first anyways, before they can respect anyone else...

hey... when any one of them gets a mention in a programming book, and has a picture of their work printed in it, then they can talk...

when one of em has published at least one piece of software... then they can talk...

when any one of them has worked as a programmer for a fortune 500 company... then they can talk...

none of em on this thread has any of the qualifications to even shine my shoes... and for the guy up there talking about fact and reality, there's a dose for ya...

like you said, accept it...

by the way... why hasn't a moderator locked this thing a loooong time ago... hasn't it gone far enough off topic...


--Mike
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Impreza
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 17:39 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 19:55
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All I have to say is check out lost in thought's pro-ject here:

*PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG*
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=65024&b=1
*PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG PLUG*

..it isn't that serious, we are a good team here at the db forums; take care.

set mipmap mode 1: set matrix texture 1,1,1: set spot light 1,0,90: set normalization on: sync rate 0: statistic(1): flush video memory
autocam off: always active on: hide mouse: set window on
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Me!
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 18:59
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Quote: "hey... when any one of them gets a mention in a programming book, and has a picture of their work printed in it, then they can talk...

when one of em has published at least one piece of software... then they can talk...

when any one of them has worked as a programmer for a fortune 500 company... then they can talk...

"


so why are you still spouting on?, I doubt you wrote anything longer than 200 lines and now you think you`re master obe wan code olde ,

if you did indeed get a job in a fortune 500 company it was serving the burgers.

if you did publish one piece of software it was on your own website.

and just because you made the "how not to" section of "Peter and Jane do Logo patterns" when you where a junior does not make you a programming demigod.

I bet any moment now your men are gonna want to talk to you, good luck with the invasion of Mexico, and please try not to asassinate too many Europeans next time you are in France .

yeah! it`s worth a ban just to insult someone so ineffably offensive, vain, arrogant and stupid.



Do parachute manufacturers have a refunds policy?
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 19:58 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 20:06
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Quote: "yeah! it`s worth a ban just to insult someone so ineffably offensive, vain, arrogant and stupid. "

you can't insult me Who!!...

i just consider the source, and laugh it off...

but the moderators here might look at it a lil differently...

your post above only serves to reveal you as the child that you are... so the only person you wind up insulting, is yourself...

--Mike
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 20:35 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 21:35
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Woa, I cannot believe this topic hasn't been closed yet!

Anyways, Red, I do think that manual syncing is better, but there's no reason to fuss over it. ME, geecee3, etc., all of you, just close internet explorer and do it your way, and the same for you Red. It is not very likely that anyone here will change his ways; this "topic" will continue forever. Even though I kind of enjoy these arguments , it doesn't benefit this forum. I can't even remember what this topic was originally about.

So cut it out!

Red, you think auto-syncing is better.
Everyone else, you think that manual-syncing is better.

So both sides should go home and make a game using their method; it doesn't matter.

EDIT:

Quote: "and your crew look like a folded mattrace with an assortment of ms paint colours sprincled ontop."


Actually, I thought it looked pretty sweet.

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SimSmall
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 20:57
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I've always believed manual sync was better, but without some 'ticker' code, programs will invariable run at different speeds on diffeent machines. Thing is, same for auto-sync, only real difference is that the program syncs where it wants to, as opposed to manual sync when it syncs where it's told to

sync rate 600, I will say my machine will never manage that, but then my machine's pretty old now - so I will get the same frame rate, but less actually happening... take shooting a bullet DBC style. Create it at move it 1 unit and chek for a collision 1000 times. Manual sync will effectively move it 1000 units before displaying it, auto sync will try and draw as many in between points as it can (and will REALLY slow the game down while a bullet is 'alive' and moving). This may be what you want it to do, but I certainly don't because this would just be bullet time all over again.

There's my view on auto-sync, more transitions may be what you're

...maybe one day I'll finish a project
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 21:00 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 21:02
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that's it SimSmall... that's it exactly in a nutshell...

finally...

--Mike
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 21:33
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Whew! Peace.

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Uncle Sam
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 21:45 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 21:55
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Play nice you cats.


The cat era has begun.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 21:54 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 21:55
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Quote: " that's it SimSmall... that's it exactly in a nutshell..."

I'm glad you finally admit it, now lets get on with our lives.

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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 22:08 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 22:16
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admit what!!!

Quote: "without some 'ticker' code, programs will invariable run at different speeds on diffeent machines. "


Quote: " only real difference is that the program syncs where it wants to, as opposed to manual sync when it syncs where it's told to"



that's exactly what i've been trying to drum into your head for the past week or so...

Quote: "the point...

they keep talking about sync being faster and all that... but that's not the point of anything i said above... only a non experienced coder would use sync to make a program run as fast as it can, and, like i said above, when it is moved to another machine, it runs at a different frame rate... "


Quote: "of course sync on runs faster... and it'll run at different rates on different machines...

... not really what a game developer would want, now is it."




--Mike
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Benjamin
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 22:24 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 22:26
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A game developer wouldn't want a slow shoddy flickery system either. I'm all for manual syncing with timer based movement, but auto-syncing is a big no-no, for reasons explained a few thousand times already in this thread.

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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 22:29 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 22:31
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hey... if you think that 300 fps is slow and slow and flickering, then you obviosuly need some help that nobody on any programming forum can provide you with...

or maybe you could use a new monitor...

i can show you code with sync rate 300, sync rate 500, sync rate 600 and not one sync in the main loop... and it is running just as fast...

sim small explained it as clear as possible... anyone with any idea of what they're doing should understand...

case closed... except for you, who seems to just wanna perpetuate a pointless arguement...


--Mike
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geecee3
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 22:37
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@ red october

i have 2 showcase games, so don't tell me i don't know what i'm doing. I'm also hosted by the very people at TGC, do you think they would host a halfwit? or ask a halfwit to produce a demo for them. I THINK NOT !!

now go get a life.

Ohd Chinese Ploverb say : Wise Eskimo, not eat yerrow snow.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 22:40 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 22:41
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@Red Ocktober:

See there you go with the personal insults because you can't win the argument. It's just pitiful. I don't know why I am doing this, as you are not going to admit that I'm right, but oh what the heck:

There are two things bad about auto-syncing in DBC. The first thing is that the engine will sync half way through operations that affect visual media(such as moving objects, writing text to the screen), which causes annoying flickering. The second thing is that it's slow, as it does unnecessary syncing. Allow me to demonstrate..



Run this and see that it runs dog slow.. I'm not talking about the movement of the cube, I don't care about that, that can be fixed using a timer based system. But look at the text(it is there, it just flickers because of move object causing the engine to sync and thus render over anything previously drawn) and notice that it is a high number(this is the time it takes to call move object 100 times). Now set syncon to 1, and see that there is no more flickering, and the calls to move object take little or no time at all.

Case closed..

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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 22:41 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 22:47
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@ geescee...
Quote: "i have 2 showcase games,"

i'm happy for ya...

Quote: "do you think they would host a halfwit? "

you don't really want me to give you an answer to that... now do you...

Quote: "now go get a life."

hardly related to the topic here... is it... but thanks, i already have one... and i've had it a lot longer than you have...

@ Benjamin...
Quote: "See there you go with the personal insults because you can't win the argument."
what insult... i didn't insult you... if anything, you're insulting yourself...

and what arguement... i don't wanna win anything... the sensible people here have already closed the book on this... you out to as well..

you like to sync... then sync... i don't care... i'm not trying to convince you to do it my way...

but the fact of the matter remains...
read what simsmall has to say... he has made it crystal clear for anyone who can read...

there is no arguement left... he made is clear as day...

--Mike
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 22:41
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Who started this again?

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Uncle Sam
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Red Ocktober
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 22:45 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 22:54
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a person who has nothing better to do than to waste his own time and everyone elses...

Actually, I think it was Benjamin...


--Mike
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Benjamin
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 22:46
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Ah its a memory problem..

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 22:49 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 22:50
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Actually, I think it was Benjiman...

Quote: "I'm glad you finally admit it, now lets get on with our lives."


You just had to have the last word.

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Uncle Sam
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Benjamin
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 22:49 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 22:57
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Ah ok, you should really stop editing your posts. I was debating against this point:

Quote: "there's no need to manually sync unless you're in the middle of some cpu intensive process, or tied up in a time consuming loop"


Which is wrong. It doesn't matter though.

Quote: " Actually, I think it was Benjiman..."

Actually, I think the answer is on the first page...

Quote: "You just had to have the last word."

Key word being 'last' here. He's been trying to piss me off the whole time during this 'debate', I just thought I would wind him up a bit.

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geecee3
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 22:50 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 23:25
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o rly, i'm 34 and my first code was written on a zx81. and the same principles of screen refreshing applied then as it does now, the refresh rate is not determined by just the speed of the computer, but also wether the program is acessing the screen in FSE mode, ie : a sync of 0 on a monitor of 60Hz in fullscreen exclusive is capped at the refresh of the monitor. in a windowed mode it is not.

that means if i force a refresh of 100hz on a 60hz monitor i'll still just get 60hz, assuming FSE of course. otherwise i will get approx 100 fps give or take a few, what kind of games do you code?

i will post my latest creation with manual refresh and autosyncing in 2 different versions, i already know which one will work the best.

actually, i can see your point if the code is time driven, but my games work on a frame by frame basis, not time. you could also use the automatic syncing in apps like STOS on the atari. but the same redraw during a scan takes place. it is common policy for games writers to update their game world AFTER all drawing operations are complete, in most cases this is the standard and accepted way of doing things.

this is the very essence of page flipping. flip when finished. it's like in blitz too

in your loop you update the world, then render the world, then flip the buffers.


Uliimately the best way forward, would actually be a step backward to the standardised refresh rates of yesteryear. then all you would need is a wait vbl command.

pesonally i prefer to code fast action games, it would look pretty bad if say the landscape on my latest game was being drawn to the screen before all the other the drawing operations for the game as a whole had been completed.

it all depends on wether you are using FSE modes, and wether you have vsync enabled in your cards properties or not. the problem is we are now writing for too many standards.

this is where things get sticky imho.

if truth be told, i'm not putting you down, and you give as good as you take, the simple answer to this problem is. THERE IS NO DEFINITE ANSWER.

I will continue to experiment with syncing in DBC DBP BLITZ and 3DGSP.

we should have a constructive debate on this as coders, not as members tearing at each others throats.

If i have offended you, (i prolly have) i am sorry. this argument crops up again and again. I think the only person qualified to speak on this subject is the man who wrote the 3d engine for DBC and DBP.

Ohd Chinese Ploverb say : Wise Eskimo, not eat yerrow snow.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 23:19 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 23:49
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Quote: "but, it's all ok... i'm going to be in the region for the holidays, and my plans right now are for me to visit a friend on the island... "

Quote: "maybe we can meet... at the nco club, and discuss weight lifting, my wheel chair, and whatever else you think is appropriate... over a few drinks... huh... i'm so looking forward to it."

Quote: "and you are always referring to my spelling in your posts... is it because you work in an office, shuffling papers, and taking dictation... like a secretary..."


Wow, you creepy old internet stalker. Is that some thinly veiled threat against me? Or my family? Bring your ass next to me or my family and see what happens. How do you plan to get on base anyway? And I'm not trying to be anonymous, that's why I use my real name.
Secondly, I don't work in an office. I'm a full time student. The military is paying for it. I refer to your spelling because you parade yourself around as superior, while your bad spelling makes you look dumb.

Quote: "no wonder you're always referring to doctors and hospitals..."

Third, I became a type 1 diabetic in the military. That's why I got out, that's why I go to the doctor every now and then to refill my meds. I am not affected physically in any way, you condescending moron. I work out every day, including lifting weights and running, and everything in my post about myself is true, currently. I have no reason to lie. Ask anybody who knows anything about me, then or now.

And did you miss this part, where I talked about syncing and timer based movements? Do you need links to my games to believe me? It's quite possible that there are people around here besides yourself that know something about DBP.



A very real problem seems to be developing between us. If you'd like to e-mail me about it, then feel free. I think that posting in this forum is a waste of everyone's time.


Pong y2k.5 - Balls of Steel, Beta http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=60999&b=8
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SimSmall
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Posted: 29th Nov 2005 23:49 Edited at: 29th Nov 2005 23:51
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Red October, I'm not in anyway agreeing with your initial posts of using sync off, what I'm saying is "as well as manual sync, to make a game run the same on all machines add something that updates your 3D positions (what I've been calling my ticker)"

my game starts off as:
set display mode 1024,768,32
sync on
sync rate 0

the first line I might make a changable option for, but lines 2 and 3 are not changing, I'm not going to penalize users with high-end machines and bring them down to my old out-dated level.

The positions of the active objects in the level are only updated once every tick, should a tick be missed due to bad performance, then next tick it will perform the previous tick first, then instantly do the current one (no sync in between missed ticks or else it would never catch up)

basically, my opinion in stages:
- DO NOT auto Sync as it will render things unnecessarily, (it's not clever enough to know to miss out 10 tiny movements and display them as a single larger movement)
- DO use manual syncing - but, DO NOT rely solely on the sync rate command (especially if your game is intended for multiplayer - people who fall short of the desired rate are dis-advantaged, and may as well just not even try...)
- Build a little counting (ticker) system to work out when to update positions of objects - you won't get everyone in MP games to update at the exact same millisecond, but it will be a lot closer than updating everything per frame (also allows a tiny amount of lag too)
- set sync rate to 0 - with a reliable ticker, users with good graphics cards won't have any flickering, they effectively just get a frame where nothing happened, and users with lower systems will still have everything right at the time of the tick...

All right? Now, can we put this one to bed please? it's getting slightly tiring...

...maybe one day I'll finish a project
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