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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] Stealing wifi or using what's already there?

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soapyfish
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 04:31
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For the past few days I've had my greasy mits on an apple iBook, which has a built in wifi access thingy. After using the mactop in various locations I've realised that plenty of people leave their wifi connection un-guarded. I'd seen soemthing on tv about this a while ago but it wasn't until I saw it for myself that I realised it's not just big urban areas, it's small towns and villages aswell. I'm not talking about your local library or starbucks, I'm talking about moving through a residential area and finding the answer to all my broadband problems.

Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, I can't access wifi from my house so I'm still having to use ye olde dial uppe to post this. It got me thinking though, and I've done a bit of research, is it wrong to use someone elses wifi, and if so how wrong is it.

I've seen a few mentions of someone being arrested because they had parked their car outside someone elses house and were using their signal. I don't know what happened to the case in court but I can understand why the chap was nicked, anyone who parks their car outside someone elses house just to use their signal is asking for trouble.

But what if I could quite happily sit at home and use someone elses signal. I understand they're paying for it, but they're not getting anything less then they did before (unless I constantly play high bandwidth MMORPG's, which I won't be doing on a mactop) I've even read that some ISP's account for signal sharing when they charge the user.

I'm certain that if I was paying for broadband I wouldn't be too happy that someone else was accessing my network and then using a service paid for by me for free. Ofcourse if I was paying for something I'd make sure it was secure, surely people who leave their connection unprotected are asking for it to be 'shared'.

This then raises the question that, people shouldn't have to secure their connection, the law should protect it for them, and this has been a grey area for me so far. By using someone elses wifi it's possible for me to 'hack' into their computer (although I don't know how, and probably never will) and I could, for example, download something illegal but surely that's no different to downloading it in starbucks?

Is it possible for someone to ''own' a signal, aren't they just paying the ISP to be allowed to use a signal that's already there, and if it's already there and I can access it without harming anyone or tampering with anything then shouldn't I be allowed to use it for free?

I'm posting this in the hope that it'll make an interesting discussion, sorry for not posting links to all the articles I gathered my info from but they were read over a period of days and it wasn't until half an hour ago that I decided to post this here.

One thing I haven't mentioned is helping towards the cost of wifi in exchange for being allowed to use it without fear of getting found out. While some neighbours may be more than happy to share their connection if it helps pay the bills others may be offended, realise that it was you sapping away their bandwidth and get the old bill onto you.

In my opinion, if the person has bandwidth limits then it's a definate no-no, if they don't, and as long as I'm sensible with my surffing then it's all good. Ofcourse most of the time it's not possible to tell if the wifi you're using has a bandwidth limit.

p.s. The iBook's great.


The performing seal mafia hasn't got to you aswell has it?!?
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Drew the G
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 04:51
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Okay, I understand what you are thinking and if you could at all get in trouble for stealing WiFi. You can get in trouble. How? Easy, you are using someone else's lan, which they pay for. When you access their lan for internet, you are stealing bandwidth from them. For those who don't know what bandwidth is, imagine it as a pipe you own, that water flows through. When you access someone else's pipe, you are taking their space of water.

I own a PSP. I can go through a big city and get lots of connections to surf the net with through my PSP's WiFi capabilities. Since my PSP accesses someone else's lan through FTP, they cannot trace it to me. If you have a laptop with a wireless card in it, then you can be traced. Currently, if your iBook is WiFi and does have FTP capability, then you go into someone else's network, you cannot be caught, or atleast yet.

Now, whether or not is it legal, is up to you, it depends if you think it is wrong to take bandwidth from others. Another valuable point, is that the PSP game, Wipeout Pure, went online to get new levels, maps, etc. People would change its default DNS number to their own, so they could surf the net through whatever WiFi connection they could find. Now that an update has happened for the PSP, you don't need to use Wipeout Pure.

I hope I answered your question.
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 05:04
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I used to do it till my neighbor moved.

There went the fastest internet I've ever had.


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Drew the G
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 05:08
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@ Megaton
What'd you use? Laptop?
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soapyfish
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 05:11 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 05:12
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But what if I was using someone elses wi fi to post this, it's 4:07am in England (don't ask why I ain't asleep, I don't know) it's unlikely that the person who pays for the connection will be using it now so I'm not slowing them down.

If they had a cap on how much bandwidth they could use per month then I would understand, but if it was unlimited, and they couldn't tell I was using it, what then?


The performing seal mafia hasn't got to you aswell has it?!?
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Drew the G
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 05:23
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Soapyfish,
It doesn't matter if it is 2pm in England, you are still taking bandwidth from their montly amount. If they have unlimited bandwidth, and you still don't have permission, it is wrong and can be considered stealing. No matter what. If you were at a hotel that offered free wireless internet, it is okay. But, by taking bandwidth from doesn't nesscessarily slow down their connection, just the amount of connection they have.
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Torrey
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 05:28
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Here's an ideal rule of thumb, use open wifi spots that are still named the default broadcast id. It's usually those people who are the dumbest and should have a license to use equipment they know nothing about.

I have heard that in some large US cities police set up what they call "honey pots" where they try to get hackers to use their wifi then they bust them. In the future that'll be something to watch out for!

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soapyfish
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 05:55 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 05:55
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Quote: "considered stealing"


Would it be legally regarded as stealing though, or the same as stealing someone's seat if they stand up to get something but then moving again when they come back?

At the end of the day, if I could do it, I would. However if I knew that it was affecting their use of the service (slowing them down, pushing them over their max monthly bandwidth, whatever). I wouldn't.


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Drew the G
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 06:00
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Look Soapy
Quote: "Would it be legally regarded as stealing though, or the same as stealing someone's seat if they stand up to get something but then moving again when they come back?"

How does that relate to the subject? They're the ones paying.

It's there their to the World Wide Web. Would you like it if they took your car without permission?
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soapyfish
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 06:14 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 06:16
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@Explicate.
I'm not trying to start any kind of argument, I don't think what you're saying is wrong, I think it's difficult to find a definate right and wrong answer, which is why I started the discussion in the first place.

Quote: "Would you like it if they took your car without permission?"


If I had a car I'd make sure it was properly secured.

Quote: ""Would it be legally regarded as stealing though, or the same as stealing someone's seat if they stand up to get something but then moving again when they come back?"
How does that relate to the subject? They're the ones paying."


I mean is their actually a law that says is it illegal to 'steal' someone elses wifi? Or, is it the same as someone saying "you stole my chair" when really you didn't, it was just their way of wording it.


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Torrey
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 08:11
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The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (look under (A)(2)) does not specifically cover wireless protocols like 802.1x. This law was written in 1986 and is not exactly clear.

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 08:13
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well its just stealing someones service. No real difference between it and jacking someones cable and rolling it into your house and tv, except the latter requires a bit more work.

I also think you are looking at it a bit wrong - its not so much that you are stealing a service from people who have paid for it - in court i would place quite a high bet that you would be in trouble for stealing a service from the *ISP* which you personally havnt paid for. Thats definatly illegal.

Also, regardless of how little of their bandwidth you think you are using, you are still using their bandwidth and reducing the amount they can use at that moment. Doesnt matter what time of day it is - my pc has many scheduled operations that involve a connection to the net which popup at various times - other people use internet backup services which have them backing up a few gigs over night etc. And there is NO WAY you could know if they have a monthly bandwidth limit or not unless you go upto them and ask them, so i find it funny how anyone has said "if they had monthly limit then yeah that would be bad and i wouldnt do it" <- thats nice, how do you know they dont/do?

End of the day its cheeky as hell, go get your own internet ¬.¬; I mean if you are on the move traveling to somewhere and you've stopped for a break and found yourself iin a hot spot then I doubt anyone is gonna complain if you nipon to irc/msn/email to tell your friends/familly where you are, do you think you will be late/early or any problems you've had. But sitting down next to somewhere you know theres a private hotspot just because their internet is faster than yours is ridiculous, its just low really.


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dark coder
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 08:18
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using someones wifi cannot be compared to stealing a car, i guess you could compare it to them owning a bench, and your sitting on it.

if i had a laptop and i was within range of someones wifi then i would no boubt use there lan, using my bench example its like theyve left the bench in the middle of a park, but if your using a neighbours wifi heavily like downloading files all the time and playing online games then its best to consult them otherwise they may call police/secure it more or something else that would lead to you not being able to access it.

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 08:34
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this is nonsense talk and it pisses me off a treat that humanity is actually like this. If i stopped to eat a sandwhich in a public place and when I left I accidently left my phone on the side of the bench then I would like to think i could run back for it and find it there - I know full well I cant. I've been stupid and left my phone behind, someone WILL nick it. Its the whole attitude of "well if they were stupid enough to leave it there (or network open) then obviously they deserve to have to stolen" - absolute bull! How about you try and be a nice person and just leave to alone rather than take advantage of someone who probably isnt as tech savvy as you?

I already said, using net briefly on the go I see no prob with. Quick chat on msn or whatever - but leeching someones bandwidth for your downloads is out of order, and it is theft. Its RUDE to the person you are leeching, but its theft from the ISP. It is NOT justifiable by "they deserve to have it happen" - I hope every person who says that gets something of theirs nicked the first time they make a simular mistake.


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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 09:15 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 09:17
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It's STEALING. To say it's not is dumb. To trip on it and write mega long posts about it is dumb too. Now I'm going to encrypt mine. Smoke on that.


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dark coder
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 09:21
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@sepiroth

omg somes using my wifi for the past month and downloaded 4gigs!! whats will i ever do?(example)

if i had that happen or my internet capped out then i would be annoyed but its nothing like getting a physical posesion stolen, how can you compare someone stealing a phone to wifi?

if anything people are unknowingly providing a public service, smoke on that

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Sephnroth
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 09:51
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darkcoder - i wasnt comparing the crime, I was comparing the attitude. Its exactally the same and a double standard when you apply it to one thing and not another. If I left my phone behind by ACCIDENT then the nice thing to think is that I could come back for it and some bugger aint going to of nicked it. If it had been taken and i complained about people would just asy \"your fault for leaving it there\" - thas a TRUE statement, but that doesnt make it RIGHT. In a perfect world I would be able to slap my forehead, go "doh" and run to go pick it up where I left it. Simulary, most people are saying if someone has left their network open then its their own fault for doing it. Again, a true statement - not a nice one though. Its a symptom of a much bigger problem and imho this world will never get its big problems sorted out until people realise that most of them are caused by the combination of little problems and grey-line attitudes.

I already said, no one is going to spank you for using an open connection to quickly check some mail or whatever - text based services are hardly taxing - but if you find someone with highspeed internet and decide you can get your porn faster that way then sorry, you're an a$$hole


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Me!
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 10:22 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 10:23
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a) its theft pure and simple, you have the use/possesion of something you did not pay for and do not own
b) it`s identity theft, you can impersonate the other person and when you are online you have their ip
c) it`s invasion of privacy, you can most likley see all their shared folders etc, maybe even account details or personal letters/photos
d) the car argument is flawed, if I lock my car and then someone comes along with specific equipement to unlock it and use it thats theft
e) just saying "they deserve it" is a lamers argument, you probably think that because you have a WEP key for your connection you are safe?, just like the people with unsecured connections think they are safe by the rather simplistic reasoning that it is their connection and equipment and works on their stuff only (cos thats what its plugged into...right?) but unless you also have individual MAC filtering for every PC on your network then the casual "jacker" can get into your WiFi network in about two minutes, with the MAC filtering it will take him a while longer, so don`t feel too smug
f) so it`s ok if I come around your house while you are out?, let myself in?, watch tv?, make myself a cuppa and a meal?, wash my laundry?, maybe take some bird I picked up on the way there upstairs for some cosy gymnastics, then leave before you return, thats ok is it?

no it isn`t, is it?



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Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 10:38
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@Explicate.

I used to go around doing this next door secured it if u hack secured it's illegal otherwise it isn't due to there being no security it's considered public access

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blanky
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 11:26 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 11:27
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My friend back where I used to live (we keep in contact by MSN) recently, for the past few weeks seemed to have a ridiculous amount of lag on his connection. (Playing games and stuff, even when I was running an empty server in Unreal Tournament GOTY locally his latency was normally about 300ms; ridiculous for 2Mbps broadband).
He was using an unsecured Wi-Fi connection to use ICS through his dad's computer (his dad set it up for him)...

Turns out his neighbours had connected to the connection, and had been running Kazaa non-stop for the last month with them paying the (bandwidth capped) bill

Password stopped that, but I doubt their neighbours got a christmas card this year.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 11:27
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My cable isn't secured. Someone could easily run a splitter from the junction box and steal it. However, I'm the one paying for it.

Recently, my wife and I were hosting the Battalion Christmas party. Later that night, I found out some loser had been stealing drinks on my tab. I estimate $12 worth. Now, my tab wasn't "secure", and he was standing behind me in line when I opened it. Does that make it right? Is that public access? No, because I was the one paying for it.

If you have to steal it, don't delude yourself. Some technicality doesn't make it right.


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Manic
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 11:44
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it stealing, people have done it to me... so i sent them a virus.

i think that was fair

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Killswitch
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 15:39
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It's illegal, but you could always ask . And if they say 'yes' make sure you get it written down. One neat idea I read somewhere (maybe here?) was that you could go and talk to the person who owns the signal and tell them its unsecured. Explain that anyone could use their internet, including you but you're too nice to do it without permission . Then offer to secure it for them if you can use their signal.

~Heed my word hobags: Jism~
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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 15:48
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I believe encrypting your signal halves the speed. My bf has an unsecured wireless network, and considers halfing his speed to be worse than having occasional bandwidth embezzlement.

And, while my sources are less than rock solid (Christmas lunch chat) I believe it's illegal to wireless stowaway in the US, I think it's not technically illegal in the UK. But, really - I have no idea (i.e. - don't be using this as a defence in court!)

Think of it this way - if it was 'right' - would you be asking? There's part of you that knows it's wrong, or this subject would never have had arisen.
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Killswitch
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 16:02
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Well I encrypt my WiFi, I haven't really noticed a slowdown - however I've never used it without encryption and I have 2 Mb/s broadband anyway so it doesn't really matter.

Speaking of Wifi my laptop just bummed out last night and refused to connect to my network. It took me the best part of an hour to get it working again, and even then I didn't know why it was working again.

I'd be pretty pissed if someone knicked my Wifi. It's bad enough when my brother's playing BF2 and I'm on the interweb, let a lone some bandit nicking valueable bandwidth.

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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 16:24
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Wi-Fi was meant to be shared!!!




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soapyfish
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 16:28 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 16:30
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Quote: ""if they had monthly limit then yeah that would be bad and i wouldnt do it" <- thats nice, how do you know they dont/do? "


I don't, which is why in my first post I said...

Quote: "Ofcourse most of the time it's not possible to tell if the wifi you're using has a bandwidth limit."


I agree that it's a bit of a let down when we live in a society that doesn't let us leave something unsecured without fear if it being used by other people, and I'm noy going to waffle on about 'natural selection' because that's a load of tosh.



Like I mentioned earleir, I can't access anyone's connection from home, if I could however, I want to make it clear that I would stay well away. I'd rather not cheese my neighbours off because I never know when I'll need their help.

Quote: "
so it`s ok if I come around your house while you are out?, let myself in?, watch tv?, make myself a cuppa and a meal?, wash my laundry?, maybe take some bird I picked up on the way there upstairs for some cosy gymnastics, then leave before you return, thats ok is it?"


No, but entering someone's house to access their network is different to accessing it as you walk past. I do however agree that I would be offended if someone borrowed something of mine, for however long, without asking. It's just good manners.

IMO there's a BIG difference between quickly checking your emails and playing UT2004 all night. That probably looks like I'm making excuses for people to do it, I'm not, but I think it's hard to give a definate right or wrong answer because there are so many different situations available. I agree that saying "if they don't secure their network they deserve it" is a piss poor arguement, I might aswell go slob about in starbucks.


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Manic
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 16:30
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you don't need to encrypt it, all you need to do is change the name of the network, and then turn off 'broadcast SSID'.

people entitled to the network can get onto it by changing the name of the network to the same.

basically, if you don't know the SSID... you can't even find the door, let alone get in.

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 16:58
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The law says that any unauthroised access into computer related material is hacking, so no. Besides, if the hacked is as nasty as me, they might have a deadly virus lurking around their system, but desinged so that if you have a reg value it won't activate. Oh, I love traps.

Simply hiding your SSID won't help you at all, Some equiptment needs SSID Broadcast, and even beyond that, Give me 1-3 hours, and I can hack anyone with the "Normal" SSID. Heck, I've seen a person with the SSID of Peter! People name their networks so simply. What annoyingly complex SSID do you have?

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soapyfish
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 17:10
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Quote: "Give me 1-3 hours, and I can hack anyone with the "Normal" SSID"


And IMO that's a whole lot worse than using something which has been left open, for a quick surf.


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Me!
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 17:26
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if you read the networking websites (as I did when I set up this home network), you will know that denying the SSID slows a hacker down by about 0.5 seconds, the primary reason to hide it is to pretend there is no network, since they can detect the signal they know there IS a network, so it doesn`t actualy help much apart from tell people you maybe have something worth hacking



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Scraggle
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 18:03
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My opionion, for what it's worth ...

I've heard people compare using other peoples net access because it isn't secured to enetering someones house and stealing their T.V. because that too wasn't secured.

In my opinion THAT'S NONSENSE.


Taking the house unlocked example ...

If the net access is not secured then yes. it is like a house being unlocked. If I gained access to their computer and looked around then yes, it is like entering their house. If I then took software from their computer and deleted it at their end then yes, it is like stealing their T.V.

However, if all I am doing is going on the internet and using their bandwidth. I haven't entered their house nore have I stolen anything from it. The best comparison (in the house unlocked example) is ... Air has seeped through a gap in the house and I am breathing it in. It has come from their house and they were not using it nor will they miss it.

This is of course assuming that they are not bandwidth limited. They are your neighbours, so, ask them about the internet connection they have. Pretend you are thinking of getting one similar yourself if you need to. Then if they are not bandwidth limited go ahead and use it. If they are then it is down to your sense of morality (and how much you like them) either use it or tell them how to lock it.

You could argue this until you are blue in the face and still get nowhere! I have no intention of arguing, I have stated my opinion. You can agree or disagree, that is your perogative but in my opinion USE IT it's as free as the air you breath!!


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Sephnroth
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 19:12
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Its alot like entering someones house while they are on holiday. Sitting down, WATCHING their tv, getting comfy on their couch then walking off afterwards. They didnt loose anything really, you just used stuff that was already paid for and "there" and they wernt even using it at the time, they were on holiday. when they get back it wont of hurt them and they may not even notice if you were carful.

It was still:
a) breaking and entering (i dont care if door was unlocked, its not your property)
b) damn rude
c) illegal
d) something that would piss them off if they found out about it - say they came home early and you will still there.

I know you WOULD be pissed off. You're right, you can argue it until your blue in the face. But the principle behind the scenario i just mentioned and what you just mentioned is the same.

However, it can be made black and white. Their internet is theirs and not yours. End of story. Its that simple. You can come up with any clever technicalities or phillosphy about it - its their net, they arnt paying for it so you can use it, you shouldnt do it. Harm doesnt really come into it in that sense, its just damn manners - something many people dont have.


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Les Horribres
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 19:17
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But the bottom line is you are going to jail the instant they find out because it is a crime. It has nothing to do with it being free, it has to do with the fact that it is not yours. AND you are acessing information that you don't have permission to. There is also the fact that THEY are having their activitys recorded for what YOU are doing.

Also, is it illigal to hack into the CIA network, but don't open any files? Huh? I can imagine your rebuttle "The CIA Network is password protected" So here is a new Synario, Some hacker takes the CIA firewalls down, is it still illigal for you to hack their network? I forget the terms, but the Net Laws have NO SIMILARITY to comon place laws. Remeber that.

And to the person who says "How do they know" I'll @#@#$@##$$ you! Every computer that acesses the network leaves both a trace on the network and your computer, easiest one is your MAC adress, and this can be traced back to you.

Merranvo, The Cool One

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Manic
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 19:26
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for the most part, most people won't go into hacking the SSID, so its a good defense against the casual user.

Scraggle: while there isn't really a perfect one, a better analogy; its more like nicking your neighbours electricity or water...

by the way, are you stealing someone's network right now? because that's the only reason i can see for someone supporting the practice.


someone's already said it, "if you need to ask 'is it ok?' then it proberbly isn't."


It's stealing, it's hacking, it's illegal, and in the UK you'll get a 6 month jail term for a first offence, and a 5 year term for repeat offences. There's also a motion to increase this to 2 years and 10 years respectively.

don't try and justify it as "well, it was just sat there". It's wrong, and if you get caught, you deserve what you get.

you're not stealing off a big company, it's your next door neighbour, and i bet you'll be pissed off when they come over and firebomb your house.

You know its wrong, so don't do it.

Manic

I don't have a sig, live with it.
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re faze
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 19:59
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I think its fine, because they are invading your airspace
I had a problem with my neighbor interrupting my signal and i had to search for an unoccupied channel
but about what torrey said about the honey pot, people can sniff packets on their own network so should you buy anything online using their connections, it is possible for them to obtain your personal info!!! be cautious about what you do on other people's connections!!!

Dont code slowly be SWIFT about it!
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 20:32
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So...you guys reckon I should stop stealing my neighbor's signal?


The cat era has begun.
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soapyfish
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Posted: 28th Dec 2005 22:07 Edited at: 28th Dec 2005 22:09
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Quote: "So...you guys reckon I should stop stealing my neighbor's signal?"


My personal opinion is although I could understand if you were more of a kind of person, I'm not biased.


The performing seal mafia hasn't got to you aswell has it?!?
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SirFire
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 02:32
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Listen, If you put a brand new leather sofa on the side of the road by your house, it would not be illegal for anybody to drive off with it b/c you left it outside by the road. Yeah it might have been YOUR sofa, and you may have wanted to KEEP your sofa, but if common sense didn't tell you that putting your sofa by the side of the road was stupid, you deserve whatever you get.

Now if you put that great sofa in your house, somebody would have to go out of their way to get your sofa. They would probably have to break some part of your house to get it (assuming you lock your doors).

Same thing with wifi. If you are so concerned with securing your wifi and bandwidth, then you will pay attention to the warnings given to you in the literature provided with whatever wifi equipment you have. If you care about people "stealing" your bandwidth, then secure it.

Now, let's say you have enabled WEP or whatever and secured your wifi. Some hacker drives by, sees an encrypted wifi hotspot and stops his car to start statistical analysis of your packets. He may even use the new "injection" technique for efficiency. He gets in and "steals" your wifi. Now this is a whole different scenario, he has gone out of his way to use something he knows he's not supposed to have access to. He has come into your house and stolen your sofa. THAT is stealing. Just picking up an open unencrypted hotspot and surfing the net is NOT stealing, it's picking up that sofa somebody left by the road.

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dark coder
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 02:44
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its not picking up any sofas, its not stealing someones phone, its not running into someones house and watching there tv, all you peoples examples are reallly exadurated,

its like from there wifi hub theres a big sphere around it and you happen to be inside this sphere of wifi access and use whats there, and its very usefull. if someone had a machine that thew out sweets all around there house and some went into my house, sure they would have payed for the sweets but it ended up on my property so i would eat them.

Halowed are the ori.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 03:52
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Quote: "if someone had a machine that thew out sweets all around there house and some went into my house, sure they would have payed for the sweets but it ended up on my property so i would eat them.
"

So... what if they were poison? I don't eat things I find on the ground...


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dark coder
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 04:07
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then they would probably get sued, if someone had a wifi point that just send out viruses then its more than likeley they would get sued (cough cough)

Halowed are the ori.
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 04:27 Edited at: 29th Dec 2005 04:31
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I think SirFire has it right-on. You guys are being too up-tight about this, making it sound like an entire company built their office building on your front lawn and are stealing your internet.

edit: And dark coder's sweet-chucking machine? Yes, if bloody sweets came raining through my windows from your candy machine, I would eat them, unless you specificlly came to my house and asked for them back right away. Assuming I don't eat them the second they hit the floor.

Deal with it.


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soapyfish
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 05:47 Edited at: 29th Dec 2005 05:49
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Quote: "Yes, if bloody sweets came raining through my windows from your candy machine, I would eat them,"


But if the windows were closed the sweets would smash them, you may then accidently eat a small piece of glass. Upon trying to rid yourself of said shard you stumble into your neighbour's (we'll call them Fred) secret underground experimental sweet laboratory and knock over a container of liquid nitrogen. This may then run along the floor, and onto a carrot. Your neighbour arrives home, you pick up the frozen carrot in an attempt to explain what happend but Fred trips on the empty container and becomes impaled on the carrot. You go home and choke on a furball.

So y'see, it's not all good news in the magic land of pixie people.

Seeing as this thread seems to have made a visit to nonsense-ville I might aswell point out that if you use your neighbours wi-fi you're not paying, which means less money is being spent so less of it has to be made so less trees are cut down for the paper. And everyone knows how awful it is cutting trees down.


The performing seal mafia hasn't got to you aswell has it?!?
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Les Horribres
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 05:54 Edited at: 29th Dec 2005 05:58
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This is commical. Please make some more attempts to justify stealing.

Anyone who supports "Stealing" WiFi needs to be shot for obvious reasons, one of them being, that they are trying to JUSTIFY stealing in the first place! You know it is wrong, and you know it is a punishable offence. So if you want to break the law, go ahead, just don't make a "Arrested for Stealing WiFi? It's not fair" thread.

And your stupid couch analogy. It would be illigal for anyone to take the couch, as the couch is on GOVERNMENT property, so you are stealing from the government. Even then, trash pillaging is becomming increasingly illigal because of Identity Theft. So there is even a real law preventing you from taking that couch, although it may not be applicable to the couch at this point.

Point is, make all the stupid analogys that you want, and you can always find a way out of it. But the fact that you wanted to feel like you were not alone in the WiFi stealing world, and came HERE to get support shows that your conscience KNOWS that it is wrong. And now you know that it is illigal.

And here is my own analogy:
You borrow your neighbors cat, who roamed into your house. Your neighbor found out, and stuck a twelve gauge shotgun up yours, and...

Merranvo, The Cool One

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dark coder
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 07:31
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i dont use wifi, and my sweet example is a great idea instead of the sweets bouncing off your windows and back to there house you open the window and help yourself, stealing there bandwidth is hardly the end of the world if they care then they would probably just secure it the people who hack into peoples open networks grabbing there files whatever and spammers should be shot

Halowed are the ori.
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soapyfish
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 07:48
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Quote: "But the fact that you wanted to feel like you were not alone in the WiFi stealing world, and came HERE to get support shows that your conscience KNOWS that it is wrong. And now you know that it is illigal."


@Merranvo
Anyone who steals wifi knows that they aren't the only ones doing it, and so would know they weren't alone, they wouldn't bother posting about it on a forum. I'd like to make it clear I never said it's RIGHT to steal wifi. I don't know who your post was aimed at so that's all I'm going to say.


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Les Horribres
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 08:03
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It is directed at all the people who posted here saying that there is absoluty no wrong in doing so.

Man, it is hard to tell who is saying what in this thread, You of course have the "Million Pound Cat" Over here with his sly jokes, and then you have a rally of supporters and protesters. I can't tell who is saying WHAT anymore. Common Symptoms of an on-comming war.

WHY IS LIFE SO CHOICY!

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TKF15H
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 11:40
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If someone leaves their couch on the sidewalk, using their WiFi is like sitting on the couch for a while, then going away, leaving it there.

Discussing this isn't "justifing stealing" as whether or not it is stealing is debatable. The neighbor is sharing his connection, knowingly or not. SHARING.
Of course, it is nice to ask the guy, and it couldn't hurt much, could it?

And no, I am not using someone else's internet connection.

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Les Horribres
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Posted: 29th Dec 2005 11:46
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Sharing is defined as using somthing with multiple people with thier permission.

But still leaving a couch out isn't giving it away. As I clearly stated before. It is in the "Wurld of Me" that such idiocracys become true.

Merranvo, The Cool One

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