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Geek Culture / Can humor be linked to creativity?

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Toby Quan
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 18:50
I was thinking about comedians, and I realized that they have to be pretty creative to come up with their content. So, I reason that humorous people are therefore creative. If that is true, then are all creative people also humorous?

Take Weird Al for example. Extremely creative, and very funny. I know other people who are just the opposite. They are neither creative or humorous.

What do you think? Is there a direct link between the two?
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 18:54
Discussing humour is as forbidden as Religion.

I guess you have to be creative. But there will still be people who will hate you no matter how good you are.


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 21:10
To use Weird Al in an example of great comedy and originality is like using pizza in an example of great Italian food. Sure, it's delicious and a lot of people like it, but there are way better examples. Richard Pryor, Robin Williams, George Carlin, Eddie Murphy, Bill Hicks, Chris Rock... all are incredibly talented comedians, funnier than Weird Al, and a lot more famous (well, maybe not Hicks in terms of popularity). Not that I'd detract anything from Weird Al, he's funny, but I highly doubt his name will be remembered 50 years from now, the same way hardly anyone remembers Dr. Demento.

Anyway, there's definitely a direct link between creativity and talent of any kind. Let's take a look at some examples: Richard Pryor, widely regarded by just about every comedian in history as the funniest human being ever, created a completely unique style of standup by simply talking about things that were happening to him, in real life, as opposed to telling conventional jokes, which every comedian before him had done. Now let's compare him with Carrot Top. Not nearly as famous or legendary, because all he does is tell conventional jokes, most of which are the least funny jokes that he could have stolen from other comedians without anyone catching on. In music, let's look at The Beatles and Britney Spears. The Beatles are EASILY the most legendary group in history, and telling someone you've never heard of them is like telling someone you don't know what a "moon" is. the children of your children's children will be listening to the Beatles, and so will their children, because it's that popular. Britney Spears, on the other hand, is obviously NOT creative, seeing as how she's never actually written a song of her own, and has producers with computers fix up her voice when she sings. She was popular, because bubblegum pop-loving teenieboppers didn't have good alternatives that really reached out to them. Will she be remembered in 10-20 years? Go ask a 5 or 6 year old who Cindi Lauper was and you'll get your answer Last but not least, let's take a look at something all or most of us know a thing or two about, the gaming industry. Let's use two extremes here. The Sims is the most popular PC game in history. Why? Because it is widely original and Will Wright is a genius, allowing people to live out little digital lives in little digital neighborhoods with little digital drama and whatnot. To my knowledge, no game has even come close to out-selling it. Now compare that with True Crime: Streets of New York, a corny sequel to an even cornier game that was a corny knockoff of the classic Grand Theft Auto series. See my point? Without creativity, you are nothing, in comedy, in music, in film/ plays, in gaming, in anything. Creativity is, without reason of doubt, the primary factor in making someone talented, hands-down and without question.


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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 21:32
everything you do has to involve some level of creativity, that includes humour, but humour comes in different forms, some involving more creativity than others, for example, writing a comic or preparing a stage performance takes more creativity than telling someone about something funny that happened today.

i don't know what megaton cat's on about with humour being banned in religeon, well, actually i think i do, and if he's reffering to what i think he is, accusing a race of people of being murderer's isn't humour in any sense of the word...

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 21:43
No. Re-read my sentence. I said that because everytime people get down to talking what's funny and what's not, it always sounds like a Religion VS Religion VS Politics discussion.


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Toby Quan
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 22:01 Edited at: 22nd May 2006 22:02
I'm not talking about what is funny and what is not funny.

I'm talking about a link between human humor and human creativity.

Quote: "Creativity is, without reason of doubt, the primary factor in making someone talented, hands-down and without question"


I disagree. I know a programmer who isn't creative or funny. She is extremely bland, boring and without a personality. But she is a successful programmer because she has lots of computer intelligence.

I don't think that there is a link between creativity and intelligence. I don't think there is a link between creativity and success. But I do think that there is a link between creativity and humor.
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 22:21 Edited at: 22nd May 2006 22:21
I think alot of humour has to do with what time you live in.

Matt mentioned Richard Pryor being the greatest comedian ever. I have:

a) Never heard of the guy before

b) Just went online and watched a bunch of his vids and got pretty bored. (The only show I cracked a smile on was the one where he was talking about sex. Yes it took that specific topic to create humour) The one where he was imitating a stereotypical italian mafia boss was pure lameness, even though some people seemed to have thought it was his best one.


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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 22:33
ooooooooooooh i see now

sorry for misunderstanding megaton, but imo you could have phrased it better

well anyways :/

Drew the G
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 23:06
You all need to get out more

@ Megaton
Toma pero

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Chris Franklin
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 23:10
Is that another Drew G account?

Theme park simulator wip boards
Drew the G
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 23:11
Yes this is mine

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 23:12
Quote: "I know a programmer who isn't creative or funny. She is extremely bland, boring and without a personality. But she is a successful programmer because she has lots of computer intelligence.
"

Right... but what does she program that she's successful at? If it's a spreadsheet program, I wouldn't be surprised, but people will remember the creative person long after the un-creative person is dead and buried.

Quote: "a) Never heard of the guy before"

I'm sorry Megaton, but your stock just plummeted. I think you're pretty much the only person I've ever heard of that doesn't know who Richard Pryor is. He was a monstrosity in comedy and inspired every single comedian you can name, and he's been in scores of movies back in the 1970's and 1980's. If Richard Pryor didn't exist, you wouldn't know who Robin Williams, or George Carlin, or David Letterman were... each of them proudly define their comedy roots as being nestled deeply in Richard Pryor's work. He died earlier this year and it was on the news CONSTANTLY... I don't know how you could have possibly gone through your whole life not knowing who he is. It astoundingly makes your generation look horrendous, no offense Download "Live from the Sunset Strip, 1977." Or "I ain't dead yet!" where a bunch of comedians talk about how much he influenced them. Or go to the video store and ask to rent ANY Richard Pryor movie (there's lots)... it makes me feel like there's an entire generation without an ounce of culture Friggin' MTV does it again Sorry for being hostile... it's just that I can't possibly understand how or why any human being in a western civilized country can go their whole lives without knowing who Richard Pryor was... it's depressing.

Quote: "b) Just went online and watched a bunch of his vids and got pretty bored. (The only show I cracked a smile on was the one where he was talking about sex. Yes it took that specific topic to create humour) The one where he was imitating a stereotypical italian mafia boss was pure lameness, even though some people seemed to have thought it was his best one."

Again, go watch a full comedy routine. But without attempting to understand the era, the events in his life (most of which made international news, like when he lit himself on fire or the time he shot out the tires on his wife's car), and the sheer impact his comedy had on the world, it's going to fly right over your head and not mean squat to you. My god I'm depressed now


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Drew the G
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 23:13
I'm with Megaton... err Megaton Cat, I have never heard of Richard Pryor. Sorry to sink your boat.

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x1b
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 23:39
Richard Pryor and Howie Mandel are two of my favourites. Well, and needless to say,Robin Williams from Mork and Mindy to current day.

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 23:46 Edited at: 22nd May 2006 23:47
Quote: "I'm sorry Megaton, but your stock just plummeted. I think you're pretty much the only person I've ever heard of that doesn't know who Richard Pryor is. He was a monstrosity in comedy and inspired every single comedian you can name, and he's been in scores of movies back in the 1970's and 1980's. If Richard Pryor didn't exist, you wouldn't know who Robin Williams, or George Carlin, or David Letterman were... each of them proudly define their comedy roots as being nestled deeply in Richard Pryor's work."


If you had any respect for me prior to this, now's when it all plummets to the ground. (and kills 300 people).

1) Don't really watch stand up comedy. Don't know alot of people who do.

2) Was born in 1989, grew up in a country empty of any American TV. So whatever went down in the 70's/80's is completely new to me.

3) Of the 3 people you mentioned, I only know Robin Williams. Dunno the other two.

Yeah, I'm in a pretty lame generation, but it's mostly pure luck that I have never heard of this comedian. Oh god I'm a monster.

P.S I hope you don't kill yourself when you hear this one:
I have never heard a Radiohead tune.


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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 23:55
Quote: "I know a programmer who isn't creative or funny."


Sorry but that just doesn't make any sense. To be a successful programmer is, in essence, being creative. Anyone who has programmed know that to get to a certain destination requires creativity, as there are always multiple ways and different configurations to get to the end.

Quote: "grew up in a country empty of any American TV"


What are you talking about? We are inundated with American TV here. I can't go two channels without seeing more irritating American sitcoms, ageing CNN cronies who think they are above everyone else, and American news.

Quote: "Richard Pryor and Howie Mandel are two of my favourites. Well, and needless to say,Robin Williams from Mork and Mindy to current day."


I feel bad for you. Howie Mandel and Robin Williams are two of the lamest "comedians" in the business. I have never laughed even once at Howie Mandel--- even when he goes on Jay Leno and tries to make people laugh on camera. Groans galore.

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 23:59 Edited at: 23rd May 2006 00:00
Quote: "What are you talking about? We are inundated with American TV here. I can't go two channels without seeing more irritating American sitcoms, ageing CNN cronies who think they are above everyone else, and American news."


The majority of my life wasn't spent in Canada. Most of my "childhood" was in Israel.



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x1b
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 00:03
Quote: "Howie Mandel and Robin Williams are two of the lamest "comedians" in the business."


drugs are bad,mmmkay,Jeku?

Bahamut
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 00:04
Quote: "I have never heard a Radiohead tune."


Don't bother-they're really dull. They lack originality and creatinvity (in my opinion-I know alot of people who think differently)

Humour and creativity are pretty much related. I mean, it takes alot to think of a situation and make new, original jokes out of it without being offensive. This is why top-quality comedians are so rare. Most stand up routines have been done a thousand times before. It definitely takes creativity to come up with something new-whatever it is.

Even then though, it's usually just modifying previous ideas. I don't rekon there's been a truly original idea for the last 20 years. Probably.

Saikoro
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 00:27 Edited at: 23rd May 2006 00:27
Quote: "I feel bad for you. Howie Mandel and Robin Williams are two of the lamest "comedians" in the business. I have never laughed even once at Howie Mandel--- even when he goes on Jay Leno and tries to make people laugh on camera. Groans galore."

And we're in agreement there. Can't stand either of them, except for William's standup DVD. That was great.

@Bahamut - I noticed Radiohead tends to "borrow" a lot of their song sounds from other bands, and they may not be the most creative band, but as far as the 90's - 2000's went, they were pretty high up there. I do admire their approach to music though, just wish they had meanings besides "we're good" in their music.

EDIT: Oh, and George Carlin, Dane Cook, and Eddie Izzard ftw.

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Bahamut
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 00:32
To be honest, though, it depends where you look for creativity. In comedy and music, most people are only exposed to the mainstream.
In music, I like music that no-one's ever heard of-melodic death metal, fantasy/orchestral metal, folk metal etc. There's loads of originality there, but no-one's ever heard it.
The same probably goes for comedy. Lesser known acts may be the place to look. However, if comedy is like music-9/10 comedians you try will be rubbish.

Saikoro
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 00:47
So metal is the only creative genre who knew?

Theres absolutely no way prog rock, country, classical, or anything like that could possibly be creative, eh?

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Toby Quan
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 00:56
Then what about this:

Have you ever ran across somebody who was creative, but was not humorous? Maybe an artist or a musician?

As far as the Beatles, yes they were fabulous musicians, but they're not known for their comedy. However, a small percentage of their songs do contain funny parts, but overall they are known more for serious songs.
Bahamut
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 01:09
Quote: "So metal is the only creative genre?"


That wasn't my point-it was an example. I used metal, because it's something that I know alot about. After re-reading my post though, I can see how you reached that conclusion, but you misunderstood what I was saying. It's my fault though for not being clearer.

I was trying to say that originality is linked to humour by using an example of metal music, because I have more experience with music than comedy. The principle is the same.

Anyway, I was trying to say that creativity is often not in the mainstream, so people are exposed to clones of a once-unique idea. If you take time to look for lesser known acts, then you can find some very original and good performers. This is true with music. I'm assuming it is the same with comedy.

Whether this original material is funny, however, is subjective. However, to come up with good material, surely you must first be creative?

Ugh...I'm beginning to get lost myself now. It's odd how things that are clear in your head get confused the moment you try to express them....



@Sir Tobias Quan:
Yes, but the beatles were musicians, not comedians. Their creativity was musical, whether this is the same creativity that is needed for comedy is another question. I don't think the beatles will answer that question. Musical creativity may be totally different, though similar trends may be witnessed in both industries.

Saikoro
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 01:20
@Bahamut: Me, Matt, and Jeku went through a whole creativity/not creativity ordeal about a month ago, and we came up with something along the lines of creativity being more of an eye-of-the-beholder type thing. And yes, I wholly agree that creativity is often not in the mainstream, that's where you'll find cookie cutter music most of the time. I've a friend in 3 bands, one is a pop punk band called the Combovers, then hes in a band made for more rock, and then a funk band. The creativity of the music goes least to most in that order, yet the first one is the most popular. Just shows that most people don't care for creativity. Ah well.

@Tobias: Creativity is a feature everyone has, and people apply it to different areas. They use it where they're interested. If people want to use it in music, they will, or in comedy, or programming, or architecture, or what have you. Unfortunately, people tend to leave their creativity behind at an early age and end up being ultimately screwed in the end when they're required to be creative for their jobs.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 05:03 Edited at: 23rd May 2006 05:04
Quote: "If you had any respect for me prior to this, now's when it all plummets to the ground. (and kills 300 people)."

I did, and still do to some degree, but it actually killed about 480 people because that's how hard it hit the ground. In fact, the impact crater was the size of a small town. But it's all good, so long as you try to get educated on him, because he was a genius in a lot of people's opinions and I think you'd really like him if you gave his stuff a fair chance

Quote: "P.S I hope you don't kill yourself when you hear this one:
I have never heard a Radiohead tune."

!!! (goes into cellar) It's okay Megaton (gets rope from drawer) I guess it's not a big deal (walks upstairs), I mean, just because they're my most-favorite-est band in the history of ever (ties noose) and widely regarded as the best band of the 90's and still one of the best today (stands on chair) doesn't really mean you HAVE to have heard their music, I mean (puts head in noose) even if you haven't heard their most famous songs, like "Creep" or "Fake Plastic Trees" or "Karma Police," (tightens said noose), it's not really your fault, but the fault of the radio stations (gets distracted by unfinished laundry). But you really should give them a listen (decides to "wrap this up" another day).

Quote: "I feel bad for you. Howie Mandel and Robin Williams are two of the lamest "comedians" in the business. "

As usual, I have to agree and then disagree with Jeku. Howie Mandel sucks, I couldn't agree any more to that, but Robin Williams? He's friggin' hilarious! I guess he's just too hyper for some people and that gets annoying, but me? I could hang out with him every day, lol.

Quote: "Don't bother-they're really dull. They lack originality and creatinvity"

Creatinvity? Anyway, as Saikoro pointed out we had a huge debate about this recently. But to say they lack originality and creatIVITY? That's going a bit far. Yeah, I'm the biggest Radiohead fan on these forums (to my knowledge anyway), but I'm not the person who gave them their countless collection of awards, or wrote tens of thousands of articles about them, and I'm DEFINITELY not the only person who thinks they're arguably the most creative and original bands of the 1990's. The music you THINK they stole from? It's newer than Radiohead, unless you're talking about Sonic Youth and the Buzzcocks (when talking about early Radiohead anyway). Radiohead spawned so many bands in the 1990's and the earlier half of this decade that it's hard to keep track of them all. With the exception of "Pablo Honey" (their first album), every single album they've released outsold its competition and was praised left and right by just about everyone. Now, you COULD argue they're overhyped, but unoriginal? Not unless you're comparing them to the Beatles or Chuck Berry. I think anyone with a true ear for music would put them amongst the top 5 or top 3 most original bands of the 1990's, if not in the #1 spot... then again, not a lot of people have that ear

Sorry guys, but you KNEW I was going to explode and rant and rave when I read THAT comment *breaks out the fire-proof, flame-resistant suit*

Quote: "In music, I like music that no-one's ever heard of-melodic death metal, fantasy/orchestral metal, folk metal etc."

Another thing, and this applies to everyone in the world who thinks this way: Just because it's rare, doesn't make it better. Just because you're one of the only people who've heard of a band doesn't make them great. If they were that awesome, they'd be famous The Beatles is widely regarded as the most awesome band in history, and they were pretty dang famous

Quote: "Anyway, I was trying to say that creativity is often not in the mainstream"

The Beatles, The Who, Radiohead, Beck, Chuck Berry (who pretty much invented Rock music), Run DMC, The Roots (who invented a new style of hip-hop)... they were/ are all pretty dang creative and pretty dang famous, too. And the list could go on for ions. And before someone jumps and says "hip-hop isn't original," please note that some artists don't WRITE their lyrics out, they just RAP them out. While DMX and Eminem are the least-talented people on the planet, their ARE groups out there, like the Wu Tang Clan, Jurassic 5, and the Roots, who run circles around most of rock musicians through sheer lyrical amazingness Anyway, point is, you've probably never heard of "International Noise Conspiracy," and imho they rock the house, but are they awesome or more creative than any other band? Not a chance.

Quote: "As far as the Beatles, yes they were fabulous musicians, but they're not known for their comedy."

While their movies are anything but classic, I think "A Hard Day's Night" and "Help!" were pretty funny And John Lennon was in a comedy about World War II, as an actor, not a musician. But I'm not trying to say they're comedians, not by any means. Comedy-music is reserved to Weird Al, Steven Lynch, and people like that. You have to be a real goon to pull it off

I'm done ranting (for now). But to wrap it all up, when we had the huge music debate a while back, we came to the conclusion (as Saikoro already pointed out) that everyone has their own opinion of what creative is. As far as I see it, the only real way to gauge how creative or original a group or artist is would be to find the average opinion amongst the people who know it. I HATE Yellowcard and all of this other phony wannabe rock crap, but Saikoro likes them. We disagree there. But I lose the debate because a lot of people like them. Green Day, they suck and ripped off Face-to-Face style-wise, a band who never really got famous, but every time I say I hate Green Day a bunch of people erupt in anger and tears. The same thing happens in most circles with any band you can name


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Saikoro
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 05:11
Quote: "I HATE Yellowcard and all of this other phony wannabe rock crap, but Saikoro likes them."

I really hope to everything that is holy on this planet that ever existed in the history of anything and everything that you didn't think I was serious when I said that

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Jeku
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 05:30
Quote: "As far as the Beatles, yes they were fabulous musicians, but they're not known for their comedy. "


I disagree--- they always crack me up when I see their old B&W interviews on TV. So hilarious, and natural too--- i.e. it didn't seem like the jokes were planned.

ionstream
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 05:55
Megaton seems to be right here, this is going (or already has) to turn into "this is funny, this isn't" and "you're stupid for thinking that's funny." It's like a warzone here!


For the record, Robin Williams' standup comedy is hilarious.

Bahamut
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 13:30 Edited at: 23rd May 2006 13:36
@ Matt Rock:

I'm not going to further the debate over whether Radiohead are or aren't original. We're never going to agree. It's like someone telling me that FFVII and VIII aren't the best games ever made. Nothing will ever sway me on that.

However, I'd just like to point a few things out that really bugged me about your post.

Quote: "Quote: "Anyway, I was trying to say that creativity is often not in the mainstream"

The Beatles, The Who, Radiohead, Beck, Chuck Berry (who pretty much invented Rock music), Run DMC, The Roots (who invented a new style of hip-hop)..."


I said often. I'd never make a blanket statement like "mainstream is completely devoid of originality."

Quote: "Creatinvity?"


It was a typo. Get over it.

Quote: "Just because it's rare, doesn't make it better."


I never said that. I said that alot of people aren't exposed to originality, because alot of it is unknown. Originality isn't necessarily good. Crazy Frog anyone?

Maybe I went a bit over the top by saying that Radiohead aren't original. I haven't heard all of their songs. I just find them really, really dull, so I'm obviously biased.

Anyway, this threads about comedy and creativity. I just mentioned music for examples, because I don't know how originality works in comedy, but I'm assuming it's similar.

That's pretty much all I'm going to say on the matter though-sorry for going off-topic -I'm feeling relly guilty now.

*listens to Ensiferum*

Toby Quan
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 14:11
Yikes.

Okay. I now realize that creative people can have sense of humors. The Beatles are creative and funny.

I now think that someone can be funny even if they don't produce a funny product. Having a sense of humor has no direct connection to what you produce for your job. You could have a great sense of humor, and produce calming piano music with no lyrics. When somebody listens to it, they can't hear your voice, so they wouldn't know that you had a sense of humor, but they could hear your creativity in your music.

I don't believe that everybody is creative. I think it's like a scale. Some people are 100% creative, some people are 0% creative, and everyone else is somewhere in between.

And those same people that I know who have zero creativity also have zero sense of humor.
Arkheii
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 16:38 Edited at: 23rd May 2006 17:03
Perhaps humour is just another outlet for creative energy? You could be creative with making your stories sound humourous and become famous for it, or you could be creative with spinning a pen around your fingers and never get recognized for it outside the classroom.

Humor can depend on the familiar culture as well. A Rex Navarete one-liner like, "You want some puto!?!" would probably make no sense in many places, but it's making a pun in at least 2 languages. Then again, most of his jokes are about Filipino culture.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 16:45 Edited at: 23rd May 2006 16:46
Quote: "I'm not going to further the debate over whether Radiohead are or aren't original. We're never going to agree. It's like someone telling me that FFVII and VIII aren't the best games ever made. Nothing will ever sway me on that"

Final Fantasy VII I could see someone arguing for, but Final Fantasy VIII? The FMVs were pretty, particularly the very first one, but otherwise, I can think of a lot of games that were better than that one. And it was hardly original... it felt like a sequel to FF3 but with different characters and on a neighboring planet. That was the game that made me give up on RPG's entirely

Quote: "I just find them really, really dull, so I'm obviously biased."

That seems to be the norm amongst younger (under 18) and older (over 30) audiences, especially after the two techno-ish albums, Kid A and Amnesiac. The younger crowd tends to think Mudvayne and all of that gibberish is fab, and Radiohead is too slow and pretty for them, and the older crowd tends to think Black Sabbath and all of that are classics and Radiohead is too "out-there" for them. I guess with the exception of the Beatles you'll always get that... an article in Rolling Stone, back when I still read it, said something to the effect of Pablo Honey being too far ahead of its time for the early 1990's, and that's why people wrote them off at first. The Bends was ahead of its time, but not too much, so people loved it. OK Computer was "spot-on," to steal British slang (and probably mis-use it), because everyone was saying that rock was dead in the later 1990's, and that album (by far the most decorated of the 90's by any group) is easily their most popular because when people heard it, they all said "oh my ******* god, THIS is what we've all been missing!" Then everyone ripped off their style, from Sigor Ros to Coldplay to even The Deftones, and again, Radiohead found itself trying to adapt and do something different. As I've always believed, they were trying to hard on Kid A, and it was easily their slowest album. Amnesiac picked up the pace but even I, the hardcore Radiohead fanboy, didn't like it as much. Thank god for "Hail to the Thief," which not only picked up the pace and broke serious ground, but saw Radiohead's return to rock. Their next album, which they're starting to tour for with concert dates here in NY coming up soon, is hopefully going to knock some sense into the music industry again like OK Computer did. We can only hope With their massive popularity and talent, they might have a chance at killing bubblegum pop and ghoutee-metal rap. I want it bad enough to almost start believing in god

And thus concludes yet another Radiohead rant on TGC. Tune in next time when I rave on about Blur's "Parklife" being misunderstood, and the common misunderstanding of "Song #2"'s lyrics (they are "woo-hoo! When I feel heavy metal, woo hoo! And I'm pins and I'm needles Woo hoo! Well I lie and I'm easy, all of the time but I'm never sure when I need you... pleased to meet you") <- this is not open for debate, it's my interpretation and leave it at that


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Bahamut
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 17:28
I think we've just proven Saikoro's point. Originality is subjective. This may work for comedy as well. To me, Children of Bodom and In Flames are completely different. To non-metal fans, they both sound exactly the same.

So in comedy-maybe fans of sitcoms will see Friends and Will and Grace as completely different, and both highly original (I have no opinion on this-its just an example). People who prefer satirical comedy see both sitcoms as the same idea with different characters.

However, to come up with truely original jokes/ideas, creativity is needed, but often those jokes are not 100% original. It's just a different take of what went on before. But does that mean that the writer is not creative? I don't think so, because a different take on a certain idea id refreshing, which shows that not just anyone could have thought of it. Whether it is truely original or not, though is up for debate.

However, with people having different opinions on what originality is, originality itself becomes subjective.

Tinkergirl
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 20:36
They've written a computer program that can make Christmas cracker jokes. Some of them can almost crack a smile. (Which is going some, for cracker jokes).

Is that being creative? Is the creativity in the person who programmed it? They didn't invent every joke, they just wrote the rules to create the jokes.

Is that program creative, because it's funny?

(Just thought I'd add that in )
Hawkeye
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 20:39
Aha...! for a while I thought you people were talking about Radiohead, the rock band. Radiohead, the freaky breakbeat electronica band roxxorz.


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 22:11
Hawkeye is my new best friend Anyone who loves Radiohead is a friend o' mine


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 24th May 2006 04:29
comedy requires creativity, creativity does not require comedy.

SORRY UR NOT COMEDIAN.

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th May 2006 14:36
I have gone on a survey today. I have asked 3 people at random im my IT class if they knew who Richard Pryor was, and they said no.

What's going on?? I'm scared.


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Toby Quan
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Posted: 24th May 2006 14:49
I would probably guess that less than one-third of the entire Earth's population know who Richard Pryor is.

It is unrealistic to think that "everyone" should know a particular artist.
Baggers
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Posted: 24th May 2006 15:34
Megaton Cat: Richard Pryor was a bit of a godfather of some kinds of comedy, he was an inspiration to loads of others after him, especially eddie murphy (who was excellent around 1982).
But hardly fret about not knowing him, he's not exactly heavily played publicly as most of the stuff is pretty blue!

However I definitely listen to stand up most days at home (can't out here as my music collection is knackered) normally on on-line comedy radio stations (alot of carp with the standard "I'm black" or "I'm gay" being their prerogative for being a comedian, but there are often gems) so that's where I first came across pryor. Hardly my favourite comedian though....I'd say Ross Noble is definitely at the top of my list at the moment, it's hard to compare him to anyone for his surreal humour which is so obviously unplanned it's incredible.

Anyhoo I digress...bye !

M.I.A is pending
Tinkergirl
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Posted: 24th May 2006 15:46
Until he died (and the internet flurry of activity over his death) to me Richard Prior was the drunken coder bloke from Superman III.
Drew Cameron
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Posted: 24th May 2006 16:00
Radiohead: Kid A and Amnesiac are my favourite albums. Idioteque is my all time favourite song, by quite a long way.

Baggers: I've seen Ross Noble live - he was awesome. I got his autograph, too.

Bahamut
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Posted: 24th May 2006 16:13
Yeah, I've seen Ross Noble live too. I love the way he seems to have 5 completely random topics going on at once, and somehow manages to relate them. Definitely one of my favourites at the moment.

Jeku
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Posted: 24th May 2006 20:27
I think Richard Pryor would be known to anyone who was alive and/or grew up in the 80's Or 70's.

Matt Rock
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Posted: 24th May 2006 21:06
Quote: "It is unrealistic to think that "everyone" should know a particular artist. "

I'm sure at least 90% of the world's population has heard of the Beatles

Quote: "But hardly fret about not knowing him, he's not exactly heavily played publicly as most of the stuff is pretty blue!"

Nowadays, his popularity I suppose is declining... a true shame. The man was a genius pretty much re-invented the wheel for standup. Megaton's show that younger people don't know who Richard Pryor is has me at a serious loss and I might do one of those extreme things I'm always yelled at for, lol. Maybe I should start some national campaign to educate on older stuff so we don't simply lose it to prostherity... If no one remembers people like Richard Pryor the culture is going to die

Quote: "Radiohead: Kid A and Amnesiac are my favourite albums. Idioteque is my all time favourite song, by quite a long way."

My favorite is, without question, OK Computer, with the Bends and Hail to the Thief coming in at a tie for second. Of the two techno-ish albums, I'd have to say I like Amnesiac more. But none of this is to say I hate kid A or Pablo Honey... I guess I'm just fed up with hearing "Creep"


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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 24th May 2006 21:41
Quote: "I'm sure at least 90% of the world's population has heard of the Beatles"


China has 1.3 billion people. You don't want to know how many of them do not know who the Beatles are.


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 24th May 2006 21:46
Good point But I'd bet a pretty fair amount of them know the Beatles


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Toby Quan
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Posted: 24th May 2006 22:00
Quote: "I think Richard Pryor would be known to anyone who was alive and/or grew up in the 80's Or 70's."


Even people who grew up without a TV and were raised in a home where that kind of material was not made available to the children?
Matt Rock
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Posted: 24th May 2006 22:20
Quote: "Even people who grew up without a TV and were raised in a home where that kind of material was not made available to the children? "


I was watching his standup by the time I was seven or eight, and his movies long before that. My parents knew I didn't understand half of what he was talking about. And I didn't swear a lot as a kid, and I didn't grow up retarded, and I didn't become an axe murderer, unlike what TV-monitoring groups like to preach. I know a lot of people who watched him growing up and didn't grow up to be jerks. Then again, I live in a place where I hear more vulgarity and see more obsenities walking down the street than I ever could in a movie or standup routine. He cursed alot, but it was all a part of his language. he used "the f-word" like normal people use "potato."

Besides that, with someone as funny as and with as many hit movies as Pryor, you couldn't possibly hope to keep every single child away from it. And when one child hears it and thinks it's hilarious, all of the other kids will hear about it to as soon as the kid goes to school or plays with his friends.


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