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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] "English Only"

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SirFire
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 08:52
I say let the guy run his business the way he sees fit. If enough of his customers don't like his policies, guess what, he'll be out of business fast.

If the foreigners get hungry enough, they'll learn how to say "cheese steak" pretty darn quick.

Darwin FTW!

BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 09:29
You're all wrong. I believe the point has been a hit and miss affair for this entire thread and I'm here to set you all straight.

The bottom line is this:
Vento is a tard.

Look at this:

Quote: "Vento, a short, fiery man with a ninth-grade education, arms covered in tattoos and a large diamond ring in his ear, also sells “freedom fries” to protest France’s opposition to the Iraq war."


Of course he gets to do what he wants because he owns the restaurant. But except for the people who have had the misfortune of missing their bus because of someone struggling with their order and are angry at non-English speakers as a result. I would be pretty angry too. But it's evident that this guy's standards of decency are low. I don't care if you want people to speak English when they order at your restaurant--have at it--but don't be a jerk with short man syndrome about it.


I'm going to eat you!
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 09:32
The low level of education is the key here, as it almost always is.


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Bahamut
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 12:29
Alot of people in this thread don't seem to grasp the meaning of a "holiday." It's this thing where you go to another country for about 2 weeks to have a break from your normal life and to view other cultures.


Do you expect people going to your country for a couple of weeks to learn the language? Yes, they should try, but seeing as the common British/American attitude is to shout loudly and point, why should they?

Of course, the guy has a right to put the sign up, and it's not that outrageous, but that doesn't stop the whole thing from being a bit daft.

If you choose to live in America, then that's a different matter. It just makes sense to learn the language, though the "natives" should be patient. Learning foreign languages as an adult is very difficult.

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 12:32
Why is this such a big thing now? The sign has been there for 6 months. And as the guy said himself "no customer had ever been turned away because of the policy".

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 13:24
Quote: "The low level of education is the key here, as it almost always is."

I re-read that statement that I made, and out of context might be kind of confusing. I'm talking about the low education level of this guy...

Quote: ""Vento, a short, fiery man with a ninth-grade education, arms covered in tattoos and a large diamond ring in his ear, also sells “freedom fries” to protest France’s opposition to the Iraq war.""


NOT the foreigners to whom he refers.


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indi
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 13:36
I wont be eating there.
I would not tolerate a restaurant policy like that.
Do you have a food quality star rating system in USA.? eg: 1 to 5.
A friend from way back was explaining it to me from his state of north carolina.

Americans speak hybrid english, not English, there is a vast difference to English Australian and American dialects, spelling and word usage.

Note even the english language is a hybrid of french dutch german etc.. words.
Lets cut out all the french words for this guy.
So this is where freedom fries comes from.?

Being a food artist, would severely hamper his trade.

In Australia we call them chips (hot or cold)
Fries are more from multinational vommit chains.

In England they call cold chips, crisps, iirc.

In the context of "english" the way this nurfball has produced his sign, means you have to say the word "english" to get an order.

Not "excuse me waiter", not "garcon", not "oi mate".

controversial diatribe at its best, nurfball etiquette at its finest.
utterly pointless.

At least he is getting attention for his restaurant. bad publicity made it all the way to australia.
I would laugh also because I bet only a few generations ago his family was russian or something.

amusingly stupid at least.

Tinkergirl
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 15:02
In the UK:

Potato chunks (roughly elongated cuboid in shape) either deep or oven fried - chips.
Thus - Fish And Chips.

Potato slices put into a bag and generally salted or otherwise flavoured - crisps.
Salt and Vinegar Crisps.

Fries are what they give you at McDonalds etc - ick. (That's ick=McD's).
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 15:17
Quote: "@Musashi - This has nothing to do with racism It doesn't say "if you're Chinese, then you're not welcome." You see, people like you get too upset and want to read into things more than they really are.

It might be--- what do you call it--- languagism? Hehehe. Dude, not only white people speak English."


My bad, I didn't look at it properly I Guess thats the catch for having about 10/12 hours sleep over 4 days

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Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 15:29
Hey man, I live in texas and I see a whole freakin' lot of immigrants who seem to be giving less thought then you would givve backing down on the subject. Accordingly, we have spanish businesses out the wazoo as well as spanish duplicates of almost EVERYTHING in english businesses. (At Lowe's last night, I needed special assistance so I hit the button and it told the whole store in english and spanish.) I agree teh store owner was ridiculously over belligerent, but I do think that all immigrants should try to learn the language of the country they live in. While it is a bit dumb to expect travelling peeps to learn english, how many people would come as vacationers? It's not often that I hear about people who don't speak english vacationing here.

Bahamut
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 15:35
Most Europeans speak English; all the Europeans I've met (other than the English) know at least 3 languages other than their own. I'd expect that the main tourists that can't speak English would be from Asia (I might be wrong though). They do have two of the most populated counties in the world which is alot of tourists. Athough they're not the richest coninent, so admittedly getting to America may be a problem.

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 15:48
lol
There has been LOTS of FREE advertising for Geno's lately. The funniest part is that it is completely fueled by the people that are against the sign. So many people in the world that would have never heard of Geno's will now make in synonomous with Philly. What a cheap, effective advertising campaign. I bet they are a lot busier now than before posting the sign up.
Great work Matt!

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Jess T
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 15:56
Only in America...

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 16:03
Quote: "Only in America... "

Seriously.




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CattleRustler
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 16:17
Quote: "So this is where freedom fries comes from.?"

It came from an idiot congressman (who happens to be a republican) decided that to promote an illegal war in Iraq, and to bastardize the french for not supporting the illegal war, they would rename anything in the cafeteria menu in the Capitol that had "french" in it to "Freedom". I think he has since recanted and had the menus changed back, not sure. What a bunch of dorks.

Personally, idiots like this should not be allowed to hold public office (don't get me started on the top idiots in charge), but payback is coming November 2006 - midterm elections in congress.

TDP Enterprises
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 16:23
We here in America retain the right do whatever *legal* thing we want even if offends 1/3 of the population...


But seriously now, am i the only one here that believes in the ol' phrase "I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody. "
-Bill Cosby

You can't please everybody, theres always gonna be somebody with enough time on their hands to make your otherwise meaningless decision into an International News story.

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ionstream
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 16:39
Quote: "Introduce me to a single immigrant, legal or illegal, who isn't trying to learn the english language. Please?"



I've met plenty of people here who couldn't care less if they learned English or not because every place down here is bilingual.

Quote: "Americans speak hybrid english, not English, there is a vast difference to English Australian and American dialects, spelling and word usage."


It's still English. It's rare for an American to not be able to understand a word of Australian English (unless they're using 100% slang), as opposed to Spanish versus English. It's not like the difference between Mexican Spanish and Spanish from Spain, in which they have different ways of saying "you guys" and have an entirely different verb form. It's just usage of the language (and yes, an occasional "ou" or appending of the letter "e") that seperates American and British English.

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 17:18
Quote: " Most Europeans speak English"


Joke right?


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Dazzag
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 17:18
Quote: "Introduce me to a single immigrant, legal or illegal, who isn't trying to learn the english language. Please?"
If America is anything like the UK then there will be plenty of places that don't speak a word of English.

Back where I grew up (mainly) in Wales this mainly consisted of grumpy old men who watched English TV and insisted they could only speak Welsh. Rather uptight where I come from.

On the other hand I work in Slough in England. Going into the middle of some areas and you might as well speak only French. A lot of my (very English) Indian friends have mothers, for example, that don't speak a word of English. Looks like is mainly because there are large Indian communities in the UK and you basically don't need English to get by. Plus a lot of the mothers (esp. older generations) are housewives, so have no need to integrate with English speaking people basically.

Understand me or not, there are top sweet shops near where I work. Dunno what my favourites are called but easy enough to point at stuff. Unlike in Germany where they look at you like just to be slaughtered bovine when you point directly at a packet of Malboro and repeat the name 10 times. "Ah, Molbaaaarroooo". Yeah, whatever, and no I don't want a sausage Don't these people realise that everyone thinks in English? Well, God does anyways Hehheh... Watch that Time Gentleman Please bloke do standup. Most funny. Especially the bit about how it felt to be English a few centuries ago (blow up beach ball atlas bounced around the crowd)

Cheers

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Steve J
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 17:46
@ matts southern comment: I have lived in small towns, villages, and big cities like dallas, fort worth, orlando, atlant, and in these cities, only a few racist people existed, because of the large minority population. Of everywhere I have lived, the pacific northwest is the most racist, arrogent place to live EVER. In vancouver, there have been people protesting immigration from asia, just because their asian. Geh.

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Chris Franklin
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 17:51
Quote: "If the people who can't speak English, I'm sure they won't know how to read English. So, how would they know what the sign says?"

Exactly

Bahamut
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 18:58
Quote: "Most Europeans speak English"

Joke right?"


Ok, maybe not all of Europe, but Germany, France ,Italy, Belgium etc.

Seriously, of all Europeans I've met, the average number of languages people speak is about 4-5. Seriously. And of those who only know a couple, English is one of them. Obviously it doesn't apply to everyone, but I've never had anyone say "no" to "I'm sorry, but do you speak English".

We even had German students at our sixth form last year, some of whom were even doing chemistry A-level courses in English.

Anyway, back on topic. The sign is daft. It's not outrageous, the owners can do what they like. It's just a bit rude, that's all.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 20:48
Quote: "We must hang out at different places. Most everyone I know are normal, educated people that don't talk like rednecks. But hey, what do I know, I'm just from there. "

I moved to Orlando for a short while as a temporary thing, taking a greyhound both ways through the south. At almost every single bus stop (except Atlanta... I didn't even hear accents there, it was odd) I'd see a sign about speaking english, or I'd go outside to smoke a cigarette and hear locals raving about immigrants (it happened several times on that trip)... and that was in 2003, long before this immigration debate. that is why I look at the south like that. But again, not everyone down there is like that... it just seems like a good portion of southerners I meet say stuff like that. We have a bunch of relatives from Texas, too, and they all talk about how "evil" immigrants who can't speak english are... I didn't mean to offend southerners but I haven't talked to many who felt differently. But you can say something like that in the south and people don't care, and if you go back and read what I wrote, that's exactly what I was trying to say.

Quote: "payback is coming November 2006 - midterm elections in congress."
Preach it brother! Midterm in november, impeachment in december! But that's all I'm going to say on the subject

Quote: "Of everywhere I have lived, the pacific northwest is the most racist, arrogent place to live EVER."

My girlfriend is originally from Coeur D'Alene Idaho, which borders Spokane Washington. Out of the zillions of weeks I spent out their visiting her and helping her move here to New York, out of ALL of that time, I saw one black person and two hispanic people, and my girlfriend and her mom are Philipino, and I'm half-black... that was the extent of the culture that I saw in that area. Scary, scary, scary, scary, scary! I honestly felt weirded out and vulnerable out west. All of these pale white christian people smiling and STARING at me (they STARE at you there... it's so creepy!)... talk about a fish out of water if I never had to go there again it would be too soon, lol. Anyway, I felt like a lot of people looked at us funny because we were an interracial couple, but NONE of them said anything about it... smart that they kept their mouths shut, too lol

Most of the tourists who stop through my place of employment are from asia, Germany, or France, and I get at least a dozen or so each day, and none of them speak english, but they ALL try and I'm always patient and courteous towards them because if I ever go to their country, I'd hope they'd be just as courteous towards me. There's no need to have a sign that rude and offensively patriotic, and to be allowed to post a sign like that is just wrong. About the gay thing? If the sign said "no gay kissing" what would you say then? No, they can't help being gay, but they can keep themselves from kissing... but isn't it WRONG to tell them they aren't allowed to?

Lastly...
Quote: "There has been LOTS of FREE advertising for Geno's lately. The funniest part is that it is completely fueled by the people that are against the sign. So many people in the world that would have never heard of Geno's will now make in synonomous with Philly. What a cheap, effective advertising campaign. I bet they are a lot busier now than before posting the sign up.
Great work Matt!"

From what I gathered by watching CNN and NY1 (a local news station) they've lost a lot of customers since this story broke. But I haven't been there since last April so I wouldn't really know. But I highly doubt having an offensive sign is going to make people want to visit them... I'm willing to bet that if anything, people are turned off from Genos now. It's a shame I'll never eat their again... they have really good food.


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Jeku
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 21:03 Edited at: 13th Jun 2006 21:11
Quote: "If you don't like black or yellow or brown or orange or blue people, should you be allowed to not serve them?"


Seriously, I feel that Matt is being the most racist by the way he's speaking about people from the west.

And once again, the sign has nothing to do with race!

Matt, you should see all of the old people here who don't know a word of English, yet they're citizens. Astounds me, really.

And Bahamut, it's not people on vacation they're referring to, but most likely Americans who can't even order food in English. Well then they should get a dictionary and learn, simple as that.

Matt, you can go picket all you want, but the facts still remain that people like you look for things to get offended by. I see nothing offensive with that sign, and just for fun I asked my wife what she thought and she agreed with the store owner (my wife is ESL by the way).

EDIT:

I don't know why, but this reminded me of a restaurant I read about in NYC where they treat you like crap on purpose, and it's really popular. Have you heard of it?

I was thinking of having a coffee shop here where they don't have cream for your coffee--- called Black Coffee or something like that. If you ask for cream then you're kicked out. Hehehe...

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Commodore kid
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 21:29
For christ sake its a bloody sign! telling people to be clear when they order so that the company doesnt have to go to effort of translation.

im sorry for the spamming i used to do i hope u can all find it in your harts to forgive me
miki
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 21:32
all humans are racists .....

in the end
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 21:40
Wise words.


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miki
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 21:49
pity my games are so crap!!

in the end
Bahamut
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 23:30
Quote: "And Bahamut, it's not people on vacation they're referring to, but most likely Americans who can't even order food in English. Well then they should get a dictionary and learn, simple as that."


Ok, fair enough. Still, I think a little tolerance wouldn't go amiss. I don't agree with the sign, but if the guy puts it up, it's his problem. He'll lose customers over it no doubt.

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Oddmind
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Posted: 13th Jun 2006 23:39 Edited at: 13th Jun 2006 23:53
You know what? The french hate us because we speak english in france. I think its the same damn thing. People hate americans alot fo the time because we dont care about their culture. If your in america, learn to speak the god d@mn language.

I respect this man.

Quote: "Introduce me to a single immigrant, legal or illegal, who isn't trying to learn the english language. Please? I've never met one, probably never will. Most of us go to foreign nations and slaughter their language, but we make a valid attempt as best as we can (well, not all of us, but most of us I'd hope). So what makes us deserve the right to give it our best, but not immigrants coming to our country? If someone can explain that to me, then I'll stop arguing in favor of the immigrants"


Come to gerogia or florida for a few days and find out.

Most immigrants here have there own little communities where they can dodge the english language and get around it. Miami is 60% spanish speaking ONLY. is that crazy stupid or what? its America, the language is english.

Germany the language is german

France the language is French

Spain the language is Spanish

When you go to a country, you learn the language. simple as that.
Especially if your going to be there illegally or are going to be wanting a job.

I think its the most selfish thing to go to a country and not learn the language, i dont care who you are. Its ignorant and stupid to say the least.

"Im a poor illegal immigrant who cant afford to learn english and i need a job to help my family"

learn english, get a better job and then immigrate legally. Sh*t happens people have to live with what theyre handed.

Quote: "But isn't this supposed to be the land of the free? It seems to me like this is a throwback to segregation. Soon we're going to have signs that say "no gay kissing" or "christians only." Does that mean I could open a restaurant next door to his with a sign that says "Spanish only?" Or would that be crossing the line"


haha land of the free means freedom to do that if you want. Please know what your talking about before you post. This isnt lala land this is an established country and just because its the land of the free doesnt mean you can do whatever the hell you want, there are rules and guidelines. follow them!

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Dazzag
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 00:04
Why do you think the US is the only country with large foreign communities?

Cheers

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Manticore Night
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 00:26 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 00:53
Quote: ""Hey you two! This is Canada, speak in English!" "
It's funny I say something similar to anglophones.

Quote: "How French "
No wonder no one likes america.

Quote: "slaughter their language"
Maybe that's why noone wants to learn english. I also think that most americans don't even do that. Don't tell me you've never heard an american say "DO YOU SPEAK ENG-LISH?" very loud, enunsiating alot. I never got how people think that will make somone understand. Personally I speak to english people in french, just to make them mad. It's most fun with telemarketters.

Quote: ""We don't know what is IN OUR FOOD: NO ALLERGY SUFFERERS HERE."
"

That sign is PERFECT for McDonalds.

Quote: "effort of translation"
Our whole govnement goes through it. It's not that hard.

Quote: "this is an established country "
Hardly.

Quote: "you should see all of the old people here who don't know a word of English,"
That's because Canada has two official languages. You don't need to know english.

Quote: "free doesnt mean you can do whatever the hell you want"
Acctually it does. America should find another word for their propaganda. Like <<The land of the kind of, not really, but almost, partially free>>. Kind of catchy isn't it?

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Jeku
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 01:22 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 01:23
Quote: "That's because Canada has two official languages. You don't need to know english."


I'm not talking about French! I'm talking about Asian languages here. Are you familiar with Asia? Chinese should be the second official language in Canada, not French. I mean, nobody that I know understands French.

Quite funny, I can name half a dozen languages that I hear more often than French.

Quote: "No wonder no one likes america."


Speak for yourself. If you keep up with that talk then we're going to lock the thread, okay? Nobody should be trashing anyone else's country.

"I understand creative people. After all, I worked with towel designers." - Ray Kassar, former head of Atari
SirFire
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 01:35
Enlish. lern it.

Saikoro
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 01:41
Quote: "No wonder no one likes america."

America is no less flawed or unestablished as any other country, every society has its flaws and every country has its insecurity. Theres no need to pick at one country when every other country has the same flaws. For example, that "How French" quote was in response to Benjamin's "How American", and then Jess did the same thing later, but you seemed to overlook that, didn't you?

This thread has gone from a sign discussion to something completely racist on nearly all accounts, with Matt's prejudice against the south and the West, and Manticores America bashing, and no matter if you met 1 southener or 1 american or your wifes sister's cousins nephew is half vietnamese or whatever, you don't really have any say in what a country is or what people are. I've lived in California all my life and far be it from me to generalize the population of the West, or California for that matter.

I think you guys should really get back on topic of the store and the sign rather than stereotyping people.


Quote: "I don't know why, but this reminded me of a restaurant I read about in NYC where they treat you like crap on purpose, and it's really popular. Have you heard of it?"

Denny's does that everywhere

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SirFire
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 01:43
Quote: ""I don't know why, but this reminded me of a restaurant I read about in NYC where they treat you like crap on purpose, and it's really popular. Have you heard of it?""


I remember an episode on Seinfeld about that Soup Nazzi guy, maybe the same place?

Manticore Night
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 01:45 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 01:51
Quote: "nobody that I know understands French. "
You should get out more.

Quote: "Speak for yourself. If you keep up with that talk then we're going to lock the thread, okay? "
Fine I won't say it again. It's not politically correct, but it's true. I said what I wanted to. Anywho why didn't "How French" get a scary mod post?

Quote: "I'm talking about Asian languages here. "
I know. They could know another language and french, that would get around the whole english thing. Apparently french is easier to learn anyway.

Quote: "when every other country has the same flaws."
Not every other country has the same flaws. The US has a big problem with illegal immigrants, that doesn't mean Haiti has illegal immigrant problems to. Infact, I think they'd have more people leaving illegally than comming in.

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Saikoro
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 01:48
Quote: "It's not politically correct, but it's true."

Very scientific. Out of the billions of people outside of the united states, not a single one of them likes America. GG

Why don't you read my post? It'll pretty much be the info for you.

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Jeku
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 01:49
Quote: "Anywho why didn't "How French" get a scary mod post?"


Because that was DBMad and, well, he's "special". Plus it was a lame attempt to poke fun at Benjamin, which backfired (typical DBMad style).

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Manticore Night
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 01:55 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 01:56
Quote: "he's "special". "
I'm not special! Your going to make me cry.

Quote: "not a single one of them likes America"
Acctually lots of them don't. Their media can't seem to stop bashing themselves. But whatever it's their thing.

Quote: "Why don't you read my post?"
Guess.

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Saikoro
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 01:59
Quote: "Guess."

Ignorance is bliss?

Quote: "Their media can't seem to stop bashing themselves."

Agreed. It's probably one of the stupidest things to have our media spew out every war secret they know down to the strategy we're going to use over national television. But we do have that right.

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Manticore Night
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 02:01
Quote: "But we do have that right."
Doesn't mean they have to exercise it.

Quote: "Ignorance is bliss?"
Something like that.

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ionstream
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 02:05 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 02:09
Quote: "Quote: "free doesnt mean you can do whatever the hell you want"
Acctually it does. America should find another word for their propaganda. Like <<The land of the kind of, not really, but almost, partially free>>. Kind of catchy isn't it?"


"Land of the Free" does not refer to the ability to do whatever you want, and it never has. It's an old, old saying referring to America's freedom from Great Britain. A better saying would be "the land of the free, as long as you don't infringe on anyone else's freedom."

Quote: "Our whole govnement goes through it. It's not that hard."


Your country has a whole different reason to support two languages, so you can't really compare Canada and America in that way. It's not like the French speaking population in Canada are illegal immigrants, the way the Spanish speaking population is here. Also, I would imagine that it's pretty hard to translate every official document in a country.

Quote: "Acctually lots of them don't. Their media can't seem to stop bashing themselves. But whatever it's their thing."


Much of the media is against America because the president has chose to do things that are against the beleifs of the people running the media. It's kind of a fad now, it's really annoying to hear people complaining.

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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 02:16
Quote: "Something like that."

Haha, okay Matt. (just referring to the PS3 thing matt, no hard feelings )

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Bahamut
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 02:24
Quote: "It's probably one of the stupidest things to have our media spew out every war secret they know down to the strategy we're going to use over national television"


Yeah they did that in England too. Pretty dumb.

Quote: "No wonder no one likes america.
"


Whilst that's one hell of a generalisation, unfortunately there's some truth in that statement. I don't think America understands that the rest of the world is laughing at them (and us). It's a shame really, that a whole nations reputation can be tarnished because of a few.

Please note that the above paragraph does not represent my personal views. I'm just saying that the statement does unfortunately have some truth in it. Shame.


Hang on a sec...what does this have to do with the sign?
Either way, immigrants need time to learn the language. It took me 5 years of learning French, and I still couldn't order anything from a resturant (partly because it wasn't on the syllabus).

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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 02:31 Edited at: 14th Jun 2006 02:31
this hasnt been relocked yet, why?



Anywho, doesnt europe have a similar problem regarding illegal immigrants? Thought i saw that on CNN a while back...


And i couldnt care less if no one outside America likes America, I like america, its warm and fuzzy inside.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 02:37
Quote: "Seriously, I feel that Matt is being the most racist by the way he's speaking about people from the west. "

I don't see how stating a FACT is racist. The entire time I was out there, I saw VERY little cultural diversity, and at least 19 out of every 20 people who looked at Sharyn and I holding hands STARED at us, some with bothered faces, until I threw them the "Keep looking and I'll gouge your eyes out with a car key" look, which always made them stop looking. But that's a hard, cold FACT... so naturally you can expect me to be pretty hostile towards the people in the Spokane/ Coeur D'Alene area. Seattle wasn't like that, but Sharyn's area? Everyone was evil and if that whole area was wiped out tomorrow by a series of tornados I wouldn't be very upset.

Quote: "the facts still remain that people like you look for things to get offended by"

That's not true, not even remotely. This sign is offensive to people who come to this country hoping to be treated fairly, moreso than they had been in the country they're from. They're in search of the "American Dream" that our nation flaunts so loudly. Unless you're 100% full-blooded native american, there's an immigrant somewhere in your heritage as well, and if you honestly try to tell me they spoke fluent english when they came to this country, there's a good chances you'd be lying. These people deserve THE SAME opportunities for success that YOUR ancestors received, and if that means Geno needs to be patient with customers, then too bad for Geno. If he doesn't like it, he can leave.

Quote: "I don't know why, but this reminded me of a restaurant I read about in NYC where they treat you like crap on purpose, and it's really popular. Have you heard of it?"

They have restaurants here where they treat you nice? Where are these mythical NY restaurants? Seriously though, there's so many gimmicky restaurants in NYC that I can't keep up with them. After Mars opened I just stopped paying attention, lol.

Quote: "For christ sake its a bloody sign! telling people to be clear when they order so that the company doesnt have to go to effort of translation."

It's the way that they say it that makes me angry: "This is AMERICA" is just an evil way to put it... there's NO reason why they couldn't be polite when making the sign, and if they were, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Oddmind, you posted some of the most rediculous stuff I've EVER read on these forums, hands-down.
Quote: "Come to gerogia or florida for a few days and find out"

I've been there and worked with immigrants day-in, day-out, and every single one that I've met tried their best to speak english.

Quote: "I think its the most selfish thing to go to a country and not learn the language, i dont care who you are. Its ignorant and stupid to say the least."

Basically, you and people like you want/ expect/ demand that people who come to the U.S. know English the second they step off the boat, and to DEMAND that people speak english just because you don't understand their language is FAR more selfish than them not knowing english YET.

Quote: "learn english, get a better job and then immigrate legally. Sh*t happens people have to live with what theyre handed."

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news who needs to break this to you, but it's NOT that easy. Take Mexico for example. Their schools barely teach espanol, let alone english. THERE ARE NO JOBS, the economy is completely devestated, so their only real hope towards raising a family is to come to the US. But the United States rejects people who don't earn a "substantial" income in Mexico from immigrating to the US (By "substantial" I mean $25k/yr or more) legally, so their only hope is to work here in the States to earn that amount of money so they can legally immigrate and naturalize, else they need to find a US national to sponsor their immigration, which rarely if ever happens. And other countries, like Cuba? They don't even have it that good. Europeans have a far easier time getting into this country because they make more money, and that's what it all boils down to. If you couldn't feed your family and you were starving, out of work not because you're lazy but because there's NO PLACE to get a job, then TRUST ME buddy, you'd be hopping the fence too. But Americans are typically too selfish and arrogant to attempt to think about things like that... hence we have a moron in Philly posting this stupid sign.

Quote: "haha land of the free means freedom to do that if you want. Please know what your talking about before you post. This isnt lala land this is an established country and just because its the land of the free doesnt mean you can do whatever the hell you want, there are rules and guidelines. follow them!"

Rules and guidelines? What rules where? By the arguement that he should be allowed to do what he wants because he owns the joint, I should be allowed to open a restaurant and only allow people to speak spanish in it. And before you try saying I don't know what I'm talking about, why don't you open a history book for yourself, and then take a few minutes to try and attempt to know what it is I'm saying here. It's the land of the free: You're FREE to come here as long as you're not a criminal, you're FREE to speak whatever language you want, you're FREE to chase after your hopes and aspirations as you see fit, so long as it fits into the law. Where is the law that states you MUST speak English in this country? What guideline? I've never seen it, and they won't have one either because it's unconstitutional.

Quote: "Why do you think the US is the only country with large foreign communities? "

THANK YOU Dazzag!

Quote: "I mean, nobody that I know understands French.

Quite funny, I can name half a dozen languages that I hear more often than French."

Have you been to Montreal Jake? It's ALL french there... I didn't understand anything that anyone was saying. But, for the record, I brought my little translation book and did my very best.

Quote: "No wonder no one likes america."

I don't think he was trying to bash the USA. It is pretty much a fact that most of the world dislikes the US, mostly for our tendency to put giant soleprints in the cultures of other countries. We tend to impose our will on others... bully people into submission. Does everyone hate us? Not even close, but do a lot of people hate us? That's unarguable. Almost all of my friends who go traveling wear a Canadian flag on their backpack to avoid being harassed in other countries. But I think it's unfair that we're hated so much, because not everyone here agrees with how we treat people. But to say that everyone likes us, that's a bit much imo.


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Les Horribres
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 02:38
I haven't read the thread fully, and I am not certain I want to. This is a very flammable topic, the fact that it was locked once adds on to that... I am not certain what to expect people to have said, about America, about the sign, or the thought in general. I agree that the sign is indeed offensive, but I agree with the point.

I believe that some people from some countries are truly stubborn when it comes to their language. In this case I believe that the people involve literally refuse to learn or speak American English. It isn't often that I hear a non-English speaking person, and that does not mean that he/she was not of foreign birth, but rather that he/she made a scene. In many cases rapidly speaking Spanish until someone fetched a bilingual, the worst part is that many of the people I have seen doing this do not carry translation books.

The thing is, I blame America for allowing it to get this far, we broadcast an over generalized list of freedoms to encourage immigration, we form facilities for non-English speakers... and then we let it grow; exponentially infest parts of America which they have no business being. And this isn't restaurants I am talking about, but residential neighborhoods. Most condominiums and apartment buildings I have been to double label in English and in Spanish. Even buildings like the public library have Spanish translations under the English signs and even Spanish only sections (although rather small).


Anyone can truly waiter a non-native speaking person. They just gesture at what they want, rather simple. The extra staff are only there to smoothen things up. The issue is being a money driven nation, once one company does it, a good majority of others follow suit. Pretty soon it seems standard, little news for you...

If I remember correctally to become a citizen you HAVE to have a fundemantal understanding of English. There should be no reason to request a spanish application, no reason to request a bilingual landlord. You should speak english, no matter how poorly, at least enough to get by.


Finally, why are we catering to what is clearly invasionary tactics? Illigal immigrants exist to cause health epidemics by living in over crowed under sanitized slums. They exist to collapse the economy by working for less be it by will or scam. They exist to decrease our already decreasing food supply. They exist to further congest crowded cities, scam governments of rightful taxes, cause shortages in general utilites, and cost us millions tring to keep them out and get them out.

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Bahamut
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 02:47
Quote: "Finally, why are we catering to what is clearly invasionary tactics? Illigal immigrants exist to cause health epidemics by living in over crowed under sanitized slums. They exist to collapse the economy by working for less be it by will or scam. They exist to decrease our already decreasing food supply. They exist to further congest crowded cities, scam governments of rightful taxes, cause shortages in general utilites, and cost us millions tring to keep them out and get them out."


Wow. That's...uh....a particularly extreme way of putting it....

Why can't people just be nice? It's fairly simple you know.

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Jeku
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Posted: 14th Jun 2006 03:19
Quote: "Have you been to Montreal Jake? It's ALL french there... I didn't understand anything that anyone was saying."


Actually *gets out fact book* Montreal is very English. It's the cities outside of Montreal that are French. But really, that's far out in the east, and I live right on the west coast (uh-oh--- Matt doesn't like people from West ). There are next to NO French people here.

Quote: "Almost all of my friends who go traveling wear a Canadian flag on their backpack to avoid being harassed in other countries."


Wonnnnnderful. All we need are more screamin' Liberals pretending to be Canadian in foreign countries Just kidding', Matt.

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