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Geek Culture / Next-Gen Console -Whats a Wii360

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LD52
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 01:40
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I noticed on the first page or home page of TGC there is a poll of next generatioon consoles ... ive heard of the nintendo wii,Xbox 360,Ps3 and a pc. But i have never heard of a Wii360, ive searched google but couldnt find a good site that would explain what it is ... That is why if anyone knows what wii360 is or stands for plse tell me and if possible provide a link to a site that explains it? Thanks in advance!
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Jeku
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 02:09
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It's the notion of buying a Wii and a 360.


http://www.codercafe.com - My blog
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Luke314pi
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 04:25
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Because a Wii and a 360 together would cost as much as the Playstation 3 non-crappy version.

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Saikoro
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 07:41
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Quote: "Because a Wii and a 360 together would cost as much as the Playstation 3 non-crappy version."

Therese a non-crappy version?

Sorry, had to be said


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Tinkergirl
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 11:08
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I've preordered my Wii - with Zelda, a retro-pad, and 2000 Wii points for spending on downloadable games.

Want. Now.

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Toby Quan
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 15:26
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The reason why you may not have found a lot of info on it from a search engine is because you misspelled it. It's called a "Wii60", not a "Wii360".
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Benjamin
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 16:36
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Quote: "Therese a non-crappy version?"

He's probably refering to the one that will kick Wii's ass.

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Raven
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 18:26
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non-crappy version of the Playstation3 should be amazing (apparently)... ya know provided they ever actually release it.
i think the release date is the same as the Playstation-X ^_^

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 18:40
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You're kidding, right? Have you SEEN the screenshots for Gran Turismo HD? It's laugh out loud comedy!
http://uk.media.ps3.ign.com/media/713/713809/img_3589902.html
http://uk.media.ps3.ign.com/media/713/713809/img_3323104.html


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 18:42
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Its a new conceole coming soon made by super nerds who combined the awesomeness of the Wii and the 360 together into one console at an afforable price, but it can play Wii, 360, PS3, PC, GC, PS2, Xbox, Amiga, Mac and Mobile phone games, the ultimate nex gen console...

Just kidding, anyone to believe that crap should be shot

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Jeku
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 20:11
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@Tinkergirl - You are lucky to even be ABLE to preorder. I can't find a place that will do that here


http://www.codercafe.com - My blog
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Raven
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 20:14
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damn, after those screenshots of GT-HD not sure i can resist this amazing new console... pushing the graphics power to the absolute fullest, it's remarkable! i mean you can barely see that the tree is made out of planes! technology today is just mind-blowing

i must have one, i think i'm gonna rush out to game and stay there until launch! ^_^
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Krilik
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 20:28
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You guys do realize that Gran Turismo HD is just Gran Turismo 4 (a PS2 game) in High Definition right?
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 27th Sep 2006 20:33 Edited at: 27th Sep 2006 20:35
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Wow, Gran Turismo's graphics look like poop. I have games on my PC that totally kill that, and they are a year or so old...

EDIT: Never mind then if it's a PS2 game... I was gonna say... I alone can get similar graphics levels with little effort...

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Raven
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Posted: 28th Sep 2006 14:58
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Quote: "EDIT: Never mind then if it's a PS2 game... I was gonna say... I alone can get similar graphics levels with little effort..."


I doubt you personally could achieve a similar graphics level, but that said no this version isn't a PS2 game. It's basically Grand Turismo 4 but in HD... which to me seems pointless given GT5 is just around the corner (or would be if the console actually EVER hits the shelves)

I mean to me this game really apitimises exactly how Playstation games work to grab the punters. Think about this for a second right.

Games like Halo 2 (Xbox) and Resident Evil 4 (GC) look good right? Months of time went into those games to get the lighting right, add effects that made the worlds come alive and feel like something real...
Yet despite all of this work, you throw a bloom full-screen effect over a scene and somehow instantly you have ground breaking, mind-blowing awesome graphics.

I do of-course speak of Metal Gear Solid 3. A game that while I personally loved playing, absolutely detest when some Sony fanboy sits there and tries to claim it has the best graphics since carmack's bsp sliced bread.

What possibly irritates me more is that the FS-Bloom is the only damn effect in the entire game! Sure it looked great on the PS2, but the overall game graphics just weren't that great. Especially if you have a larger TV, perhaps one capable of HD... realising that Bigger != Better Image Quality.

GT has always been quite a sub-par game imo, it's only cause it was the first 3d car-simulation that it's really becomming popular. Can't believe that Sony have felt that it's strong enough to keep them going, I mean with an amazing line-up of games for the PS3 launch as well... you'll have, GT5 and FF13 and Killzone2 and.. erm... well anyways it's just packed as you can tell.
I mean with this slightly alternative version of GT4 on their side there's no way they can loose out to the 360's sales ::coughForza2cough::

It's a little silly that people seem to go crazy of the most basic of things. Spend months creating an atmosphere and ya know people are like "oh it was so chillingly realistic" just throw a fullscreen effect over it and they're like "oh it's the most gorgeous game EVER!". I just dont' understand people tbh
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 28th Sep 2006 15:31 Edited at: 28th Sep 2006 15:37
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What are you going on about? If a game company gets people to be amazed at their graphics with less effort, then good for them. Graphically speaking, all that really matters is the final effect that it has on players, not the dirty behind the scenes details.


Come see the WIP!
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Van B
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Posted: 28th Sep 2006 17:21
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Quote: "You guys do realize that Gran Turismo HD is just Gran Turismo 4 (a PS2 game) in High Definition right?"


So it'll be a lot cheaper then, maybe £20 rather than £50?

I doubt it - if they want money for it, then they should be prepared to defend it, unless of course the PS3 is just a joke to Sony, and re-releasing PS2 games is what they consider a good move.

I pre-ordered Wii #1 today, gotta get one for the boys xmas too, but roll on December . The retro games really appeal to me, from what I've read, there's a Megadrive, Mastersystem, NES, SNES, and an N64 in the virtual console thingy, I just hope the pricing of these already available roms is nice and low. How many times can 1 person buy Bubble Bobble!!! (I'm counting 8 so far).

''Stick that in your text and scroll it!.''
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Raven
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Posted: 28th Sep 2006 18:55
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Quote: "What are you going on about? If a game company gets people to be amazed at their graphics with less effort, then good for them. Graphically speaking, all that really matters is the final effect that it has on players, not the dirty behind the scenes details."


Yeah, I'm sure it's great how much money the publishers can get through cheap sales tactics... and i'm sure that the overall quality of games will just keep rising as a result, right?
Perhaps you understand my point now. All this graphics power is the only realy difference between this and previous generations; as such what's the point if it's not even being bloody used.

Quote: "I doubt it - if they want money for it, then they should be prepared to defend it, unless of course the PS3 is just a joke to Sony, and re-releasing PS2 games is what they consider a good move."


I'm sure the console is becomming a joke to many people at this point. Just waiting to see if they can finally release it in November as planned. (US and Jap anyways)
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Chris K
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 00:07
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Quote: "All this graphics power is the only realy difference between this and previous generations"


What about Spore, Bioshock etc.? OK Bioshock looks beautiful, but it's real improvements are in AI, same with Spore, the nextgen-ness is in it's scale. Same thing with Halo 3, it's the scale that sets it apart from the last generation, not the graphics.

Quote: "Killzone2"


That's a lauch title?!? Have they released any in game shots yet?

Haven't seen many PS3 games that have caught my eye. Definately none better than the ones on 360 (including some exclusives). Gears of War really does look awesome, it's the only game I've seen so far that looks just awesome in game. Watched a video of the opening level (in the prison) and the way they keep it cinematic and the camera coding in general just looks SO good.

The games I really want:
- Assasins Creed
- Gears of War
- Bioshock
- Crysis
- Halo 3
- Spore
- Mass Effect
- Halo Wars
- Super Mario Galaxy
- Zelda: A Link to The Past

Secondary:
- Alan Wake
- Army of Two

So yeah, no PS3 exclusives but some Wii and 360 exclusives.

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Raven
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 00:27
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Quote: "What about Spore, Bioshock etc.? OK Bioshock looks beautiful, but it's real improvements are in AI, same with Spore, the nextgen-ness is in it's scale. Same thing with Halo 3, it's the scale that sets it apart from the last generation, not the graphics"


Spore is possible with "current" generation stuff, just not the sort of whole universe scale. While yeah I'm agreeing with the whole scale thing, but ya know that is 100% graphics power based.
Spore uses Shader Model 3.0 in order to achieve what it does, but it's really more of an extension from TheSims. Not saying it's not an amazing and novel idea, but compared to most of the other titles being released... main difference is the graphics.

AI hasn't improved much either, not from what I've seen. That's far more company related than anything else.

Doom 3 = Pants AI
Half-Life 2 = Decent AI

both ran on nearly identical systems with fairly decent graphics both ways. I've not seen any in-game shots of Halo3, I'm sure that it's not going to be much of an improvement over Halo2. I mean think about the difference between the first two. Halo2 seemed much more open in scale with huge level designed rather than 90% closed areas; but it's the same gameplay with some minor improvements but mostly graphical. (more shiney heh)

Quote: "That's a lauch title?!? Have they released any in game shots yet?"


aparently so, atleast according to Nuts magazine. as i've been outta the loop for a few months that's been about my only information source.

no idea if there are any real shots yet.

Personally I'm looking forward to Halo 3, Spore and Forza Motorsport 2. Plus the Wii as a whole, but not sure if I can afford that for a while.

Forza 2 looks damn good to me, cause of the improvements graphically, but also physics, tweaking potencial, and all those features that allow you to mess about with your cars online or in-game.

not sure what else is comming so, not sure what to look forward to really. probably best, as less things to distract me ^_^ hehe
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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 00:33
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I too am looking forward to Spore, especially on PC. It just looks... phenomenal to say the least. That being said, I thought I would like the Sims 2 but hated it after 20 minutes


http://www.codercafe.com - My blog
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Chris K
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 00:38 Edited at: 29th Sep 2006 00:41
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Quote: "but ya know that is 100% graphics power based."


Erm... what does that mean?

Spore runs it's world generating algorithms on the GPU? Don't think so...

Quote: "AI hasn't improved much either, not from what I've seen"


But clearly the AI in Crysis, Spore, Bioshock etc. is way in advance of what was possible on current generation processors. Bioshock, for example, there's absolutely no scripting, same with Spore. It's only this generation's processors that allowed AI of the quality of Bioshock and the quantity of Spore.

------------------

Don't you love how the main insult Sony fanboys could find for the xbox when it came out was that it was massive, and now the PS3 is about twice the size of a 360. Fools.

------------------

Just checked and Killzone 3 isn't a launch title.
Just for reference:

* Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII
* Call of Duty 3
* The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
* Fatal Inertia
* F.E.A.R.
* Fight Night: Round 3
* flOw
* Full Auto 2: Battlelines
* Genji: Days of the Blade
* Heavenly Sword
* Madden NFL 07
* Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
* MotorStorm
* NBA Live 07
* Need for Speed: Carbon
* Resistance: Fall of Man
* Ridge Racer 7
* Sonic the Hedgehog
* Tiger Woods PGA Tour 2007
* Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas
* Tony Hawk's Project 8
* Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom

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Raven
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 02:57
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Quote: "Erm... what does that mean?

Spore runs it's world generating algorithms on the GPU? Don't think so..."


You'd be surprised how versitile SM3.0 is, it's actually quicker to generate a 3D world that is created randomly using the GPU than it is with the CPU. It's probably likely that the CPU is used as a fall-back device, and more for processing the background stuff like the overall game-logic.

Would it really be so hard to believe that a game can be created to run almost exclusively from the GPU?

Quote: "That being said, I thought I would like the Sims 2 but hated it after 20 minutes"


I've got all the upgrade packs, but I have to admit it's not a game that I play on my own. Spent hours with my friends just creating people we know and putting them into crazy situations.

I think the funniest was my mate Jass, who made his family and they ALL broke down. His dad was on the street begging for cash while his mom was having constant break-downs and seeing the the social bunny. My brother had himself in the game, and then he ended up getting with a lass we knew several times... which I found funny cause they both hate each other in real-life. ^_^

Quote: "But clearly the AI in Crysis, Spore, Bioshock etc. is way in advance of what was possible on current generation processors. Bioshock, for example, there's absolutely no scripting, same with Spore. It's only this generation's processors that allowed AI of the quality of Bioshock and the quantity of Spore."


I've not seen much of Bioshock, but Crysis seemed to have very bland AI much like FarCry did. Spore's does seem interesting, but it's again nothing that really is "beyond" current technology. After all the PC version is suppose to be able to run on mid-range systems without Multi-Core or such technology. Just an SM3 card.

I think given how pathetic AI has been in recent years, and barely advanced as quickly as Physics or Graphics has.. we're seeing slightly more intelligent characters and thinking "wow"

More often than not developers sacrifice things like AI, and gameplay to have the novel features that comes with technology advancement. Doom3 really is one of the best examples in years.
The AI in Killzone was pretty damn good imo... then again how good do we want the AI in games? After all if we had a game like Dead Rising with all of the Zombies having the intelligence of real people it'd be almost impossible to complete it. (not that it's a particularly gripping game anyway heh, but it is fun to beat zombie to death with anything.. gotta love zombie golf! )
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Krilik
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 04:24
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Quote: "So it'll be a lot cheaper then, maybe £20 rather than £50?

I doubt it - if they want money for it, then they should be prepared to defend it, unless of course the PS3 is just a joke to Sony, and re-releasing PS2 games is what they consider a good move.
"

I don't see what that had to with what I said. People are ragging on the PS3 based on a port of a PS2 game. And now you're just finding another excuse to rag on it because you can't rag on the graphics anymore.

Besides, the game will have additional material along with material found in previous Gran Turismo games. With the possibility of downloading new material once the game is released.

If you don't want it, then don't buy it. I don't see why you find it necessary to persuade yourself with excuses to not like something.
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 04:53
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We're not trying to persuade ourselves with exuses, we're just having fun agreeing and making fun of something. This happens all the time when people talk, and if you can't deal with it, just let it be and don't post. This is my first post in this thread, but that's only because I just saw it. You can argue against someones position, but don't tell them off just for posting it.

I'm phyched about spore, but not because of the AI, but because of the idea of evolving your own spiecies and then exploring like the largest game universe ever. I bought the sims, but wasn't that interested in controling a few peoples lives. Sim city is great, but I'm not that interested in being a mayor. Spore is like the dream game of any creative person. I do think it's cool that the species you encounter will behave the way they were used by their creators.

Some genres definitly need huge AI updates, but some games really just need to focus on gameplay. The AI in Bioshock looks pretty darn good, although until I play it I don't want to pass any judgment on it.

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Krilik
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 06:34
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Quote: "We're not trying to persuade ourselves with exuses, we're just having fun agreeing and making fun of something. This happens all the time when people talk, and if you can't deal with it, just let it be and don't post. This is my first post in this thread, but that's only because I just saw it. You can argue against someones position, but don't tell them off just for posting it."

That's totally constructive. This thread was about the Wii60, I don't see how ragging on the PS3 and games on the PS3 pertained to this topic.

Quote: "After all if we had a game like Dead Rising with all of the Zombies having the intelligence of real people it'd be almost impossible to complete it."

Human-esque AI isn't that "good". What makes it more fun to play against a human than a computer is unpredictability. Developers could program AI that is unbeatable, but it wouldn't be any fun. The problem with AI is that its predictable. After you've done it once you will always be able to do it again. Most of the reason why you die is through your own fault. But it would almost be impossible to program an AI that reacts unpredictably, and reasonably during a certain situation.
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Van B
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 09:30
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Quote: " You guys do realize that Gran Turismo HD is just Gran Turismo 4 (a PS2 game) in High Definition right?"


That's what made me say that - you said it was just GT4 in HD, is that not ragging it? - don't come back and start defending the damn thing like a fanboy and expecting us to feel bad for having a pop at Sony.

We'll have a pop at whatever hardware manufacturer we damn well like.

''Stick that in your text and scroll it!.''
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Jeku
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 09:48
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Quote: "This thread was about the Wii60, I don't see how ragging on the PS3 and games on the PS3 pertained to this topic."


Yah, and the answer to the thread topic was laid out in the very first reply.

After that, the thread changed course--- like most do. This is natural progression on a forum, much like a conversation. If you sit back and listen you'll see the subject change dynamically during key elements. Deal with it.


http://www.codercafe.com - My blog
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 11:14
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I love how some people get so defensive about a video game system... Almost as if they are defending a member of their family from these insults... Come on folks, it's just a gaming console! It's all personal preference and point of view.

Sometimes the only way over a wall is to pile up enough bodies to climb over - Dave W.
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Death Swarm
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 18:47
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I think console market is getting to be a joke. The only console I would even consider buying is a Wii because it's actually original unlike every other console. For example a xbox controller and a 360 controller is almost identical same with the ps1, ps2 and ps3 controllers

I know what your thinking
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Krilik
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 20:16 Edited at: 29th Sep 2006 20:23
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Quote: "That's what made me say that - you said it was just GT4 in HD, is that not ragging it? - don't come back and start defending the damn thing like a fanboy and expecting us to feel bad for having a pop at Sony.

We'll have a pop at whatever hardware manufacturer we damn well like."

That's not ragging on it. That is a fact.

Ragging on something requires a comment meant to demean something. It was stupid to point out that its graphics suck compared to next-gen standards. When the game is basically a port of an old PS2 game. There was no purpose to pointing that out, except to help your opinion about the PS3 feel superior to others. And its not even a justified opinion.

How is pointing out facts being a fanboy? I would really like to know. Generally I like to know things before I go and make obscene comments for no reason.

So can I have a "pop" at your uninformed opinion afterward, or would that be considered taboo? Maybe I should just be like everyone else and make fun of things I know little about.
Quote: "I love how some people get so defensive about a video game system... Almost as if they are defending a member of their family from these insults... Come on folks, it's just a gaming console! It's all personal preference and point of view."

There's the other side of that too. I also love how people get so offensive about a video game system... And anything related to a video games system.

Its just as pointless.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 21:37
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People buying every console when they come out have just too much bloody money and should buy a bicycle and go outside instead!

I just got my first SNES in the past year, I'll catch up eventually.

"Using Unix is the computing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy" - Rob Pike
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Van B
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Posted: 29th Sep 2006 23:00 Edited at: 29th Sep 2006 23:03
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Care to point out when I 'ragged' on the PS3?, or sony?

If you bothered to read my posts you'd find no slagging of Sony at all, so I've no idea where you get this attitude from.

As for obscene?, are you on tablets or something?

Quote: "It was stupid to point out that its graphics suck compared to next-gen standards. When the game is basically a port of an old PS2 game."


OK, again, I did not point this out, I suggested that perhaps Sony might drop the price a bit.

''Stick that in your text and scroll it!.''
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The admiral
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 01:52
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I think your wrong raven from what ive seen there are all sorts of ways you can manipulate the game world and the ai in next gen games. That is what divides the last generation from the new one not just graphics.

The admiral
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Cian Rice
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 02:33
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I can't wait to see what the Ps3 installment of Killzone actually looks like. <_<

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Raven
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 03:49
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Quote: "I think your wrong raven from what ive seen there are all sorts of ways you can manipulate the game world and the ai in next gen games. That is what divides the last generation from the new one not just graphics."


What is shown and what the games actually play-like, really are a world apart.

I mean I'm open to change my mind on what "next-generation" games appear to be, if you can provide me with a game I can play that would change my mind.

Tomb Raider Legend finally changed how you think about how to play through levels, (albeit a lil short) but the AI in the game suffered either as a result or simply because it wasn't thought about due to the thought gone into the actually levels.

Have you ever played a game called Penumbre (it's on the NewtonDynamics.com website) it's designed for low-end PCs and really has quite good level interaction in order to get through the whole game which is a FPS Survival Horror, without weapons relying on the players ingenuity in order to survive the world and figure out just what the hell has happened.

I mean I'm happy that the physics boom is now dieing down and games are starting to use it more intelligently as part of the game rather than a gimmic; but it doesn't mean that wasn't possible last generation. As for the AI, honestly don't see it improving any time soon. Sure 1 or 2 games are trying to set the bar higher; but honestly... non-scripted AI - Hello, but Black&White started that almost 5years back. It's not what technology is used but how it performs in-game. None of my 360 games appear to really show that to me.

All other games atm are just left up to rumor, screenshots, and movies. Can't really say "yeah this has awesome AI" if you've not played it.

Everyone claimed TheSims2 was going to up the AI steaks, and social interaction; but that seemed to go down the crapper as they're just as stupid as the first game.
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 03:57 Edited at: 30th Sep 2006 04:07
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Am I the only one who thought the next-gen Tomb Raider played like Tomb Raider III? It offered nothing new really. Same navigation, same level design.

I always wonder when devs are finally going to foucs on character movment. I mean, wouldn't it be awsome to have a fully physics controlled character, without pre-made animations? Sort of like a system that knows where the arm is, where the leg is etc, and each limb and body part has it's own weight. So when you take a step, or swing a punch, the character doesn't look like he's doing the same even robot walk or the exact same angle punch. When you hit forward, the character shouldn't just burst into an instant run and then halt once you let go. There is nothing wrong with this type of movment system, other then the fact that it's already been done done done in previous games.

If people are gonna call this "next gen" then let's see something that really couldn't be done last gen. I'm really not impressed with the next gen games - they just all feel the same! God of War had a very responsive movment and combat system, and that's the type of stuff I'm hoping will be taken up a notch.

People now have amazing physics engines, and what do they do with it? Assign custom physics options to individual breasts, and get severed body parts to fly all pretty. How about creating a "next gen" fighting game that's different?

Maybe being able to see a punch coming, time your character right, turn into the punch and throw the opponent off balance by using the momuntum generated by the opponent. Or twisting your analog stick to allow you fighter to move smoothly sideways or in a spherical motion to avoid punches, and jerking the analog sharply when you want your fighter to strike or dart quickly. Each fighter can have a center of gravity, limb spring, muscle tension, etc. But what are we getting now? A new DoA where you get hot chicks to swing thier limbs in the opponent's direction like a kitten being flushed down a toilet.

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Krilik
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 05:48
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Quote: "Care to point out when I 'ragged' on the PS3?, or sony?

If you bothered to read my posts you'd find no slagging of Sony at all, so I've no idea where you get this attitude from.

As for obscene?, are you on tablets or something?"

You ragged on GT4, Sony, and the PS3 all in these two sentences.
Quote: "So it'll be a lot cheaper then, maybe £20 rather than £50?

I doubt it - if they want money for it, then they should be prepared to defend it, unless of course the PS3 is just a joke to Sony, and re-releasing PS2 games is what they consider a good move."

Not to mention you've already stated:
Quote: "expecting us to feel bad for having a pop at Sony.

We'll have a pop at whatever hardware manufacturer we damn well like."

You obviously have a condescending view upon the way in which Sony chooses to release its games. Without even considering what the game actually might have as far as features. You somehow managed to assume that GT4 is going to be overpriced, Sony wouldn't be able to justify releasing it, or releasing it would be a joke, and the game was going to be a re-hash of a old PS2 game, all from one sentence I posted. To me, that is obscene, indecent, offensive, outrageous, whatever.
Quote: "OK, again, I did not point this out, I suggested that perhaps Sony might drop the price a bit."

I know you didn't. I didn't mean for my previous post to sound like you were the one doing it. I was using "you" as in the general person who would point out such things.

You asked me a question and jumped straight to your conclusion. As if you already had the answer. You didn't suggest anything.
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Jeku
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 07:31
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@Krilik - Those statements don't sound like someone raggin' on anything.

And if so, WHO CARES? Who really cares if someone slams a company--- really. Who cares. Isn't that what being a gamer is. We all have opinions. Are you REALLY going to say that the PS3 *isn't* overpriced for the average consumer? Are you REALLY going to stand there and say that GT screenie looks good? Instead of arguing for the *sake* of arguing, throw a good point or two in the mix. Sounds to me like you're raggin' on us, actually.


http://www.codercafe.com - My blog
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The admiral
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 07:50
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Have a look at the assasins creed demo showcase its pretty cool what you can do. You can climb,walk on any structure up any wall and the cities are not designed around the objective you can make your own routes not follow a set path. Fighting is even cooler you can use your sword to block in various ways swing around jump over things and use your enemys against them. Then there is the social interaction for example they show how you can blend in with other npcs pretend to be part of a group to get closer to your target. You even have to push crowds out of the way at times. This sort of depth is what next gen stuff is all about and its not just assasins creed there is bio shock which haves the various different ais as well as how they react when you use different powers.

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Krilik
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 09:16 Edited at: 30th Sep 2006 09:17
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Quote: "The reason PS3 gets ragged on the most is because they came up with the most bull**** so far, and now they're paying for it. That's the way Sony does it's business, with very little thought about the actual consumer, they're just thinking about making lots and lots of sales. They've shown this often in the past, and they take marketing hype to new lows every time rather than just present the honest facts about their products. This is the way pretty much every console has been marketing but like I said, Sony won in the BS wars and now they're the big target for open mockery. This is why I still have little to no respect for Sony, especially so compared to Nintendo and Microsoft."

That's fine. You don't have to. But there's still no point in making a public announcement about it. People are going to like the company and system regardless of your opinion. There's no reason to hold a grudge about it. In the end none of that matters, as long as you get to play games you like to play.

Quote: "Those statements don't sound like someone raggin' on anything.

And if so, WHO CARES? Who really cares if someone slams a company--- really. Who cares. Isn't that what being a gamer is. We all have opinions. Are you REALLY going to say that the PS3 *isn't* overpriced for the average consumer? Are you REALLY going to stand there and say that GT screenie looks good? Instead of arguing for the *sake* of arguing, throw a good point or two in the mix. Sounds to me like you're raggin' on us, actually."

Umm no... Being a gamer isn't about formulating aggressive opinions just because you can. Its annoying when people think they need to do so.

You're right everyone has opinions, but they're not all equal. Sitting around formulating a one sided opinion about something leaves you with nothing. If you're going to form an opinion you better well be able to defend it. I don't see why I'm not allowed to point out something crucial in deciding the level of quality in terms of graphics for next-gen systems. If it somehow offended your opinion, its your fault for being uninformed, not mine.

I'm not arguing about GT4, Sony, or the PS3, because I don't care. I'm merely stating facts that need to be accounted for before any valid opinion can be formed. Why is that so hard to do? That's what I'm arguing about.

Its like me saying Assassins Creed sucks, even though I've never seen a screenshot, or trailer of it.
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Jeku
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 09:56
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Well AFAIK nobody said "PS3 sucks" yet in this thread.

But, we are allowed as consumers to make educated guessed based on what we have. Because *most of us* haven't played a PS3 yet, we only have screenies and comments made by Sony execs to go by, do we not?

Because the 360 is out already, we can make better judgements as well. If you prefer to be spoonfed opinions from PR jockeys, be my guest


http://www.codercafe.com - My blog
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Chris K
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 13:59
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Quote: "I mean, wouldn't it be awsome to have a fully physics controlled character, without pre-made animations?"


Your prayers have been answered...

Check out Euphoria

It's a very, very impressive physics/animation system that generates physics-abiding animations in real time. Watching those NFL players tackle and the ragdolls picking themselves up from whatever position they fall into, is amazing.

It's solely licensed to LucasArts at the moment, which is a bit lame, but it's being used in the new Indy game.

And yes, this is another next-gen improvement that has nothing to do with graphics. Another one is objects that realistically fracture based on their material and where they were hit in real time.

Also, it simply blows my mind that Raven claimed most of Spore would be running on the GPU. Good one. I believe you, no evidence at all, and it's completely ridiculous, but we believe you still.

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Chris K
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Posted: 30th Sep 2006 14:00
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Quote: "I mean, wouldn't it be awsome to have a fully physics controlled character, without pre-made animations?"


Your prayers have been answered...

Check out Euphoria

It's a very, very impressive physics/animation system that generates physics-abiding animations in real time. Watching those NFL players tackle and the ragdolls picking themselves up from whatever position they fall into, is amazing. There's also quite a good video out a ragdoll balancing itself on a wobbly platform, that's on the first page I linked to.

It's solely licensed to LucasArts at the moment, which is a bit lame, but it's being used in the new Indy game.

And yes, this is another next-gen improvement that has nothing to do with graphics. Another one is objects that realistically fracture based on their material and where they were hit in real time.

Also, it simply blows my mind that Raven claimed most of Spore would be running on the GPU. Good one. I believe you, no evidence at all, and it's completely ridiculous, but we believe you still.

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Cian Rice
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Posted: 1st Oct 2006 04:35
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Quote: "I always wonder when devs are finally going to foucs on character movment. I mean, wouldn't it be awsome to have a fully physics controlled character, without pre-made animations? Sort of like a system that knows where the arm is, where the leg is etc, and each limb and body part has it's own weight. So when you take a step, or swing a punch, the character doesn't look like he's doing the same even robot walk or the exact same angle punch. When you hit forward, the character shouldn't just burst into an instant run and then halt once you let go. There is nothing wrong with this type of movment system, other then the fact that it's already been done done done in previous games.
"


Jade Raymond mentioned that the controls for Altaïr in Assassin's Creed are very similar to what you're talkign about, as each face button basically controls a part of his body, and is used in conjunction with the other buttons and directions to provide unique movements.

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Raven
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Posted: 1st Oct 2006 05:56
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Quote: "Also, it simply blows my mind that Raven claimed most of Spore would be running on the GPU. Good one. I believe you, no evidence at all, and it's completely ridiculous, but we believe you still."


Perhaps you might want to review the E3 videos from when Will Wright was showing off Spore again. He quite openly mentions how the new VIDEO technology has opened this up.
This said I'm sure you're right, and it's obviously the new processing capabilities of the consoles processors which have only improved slightly over previous generations where-as graphics processing and abilities have changed from a static simple access to a dynamic complete processing solution.

@admirial - Yeah I've seen Assasin's Creed. It does look interesting and fun to play... but it's not really anything that wouldn't have been possible on the PS2, GC or Xbox. imo
Graphically sure; not even close to possible, but gameplay-wise I reckon it could've been achieved.

Check out Euphoria

Quote: "It's a very, very impressive physics/animation system that generates physics-abiding animations in real time. "


Euphoria doesn't output (or atleast didn't 4months back) in a way that you'd define animations and it'd calculate them real-time. Instead it allows you to create animations without the need for MoCap. Cheaper and easier to intergrate... you still end up with "set" animations. I do agree with there being no games that make use of physics to provide better animations or interaction in games. This is a shame imo

Intel Pentium-D 2.8GHz, 512MB DDR2 433, Ati Radeon X1600 Pro 256MB PCI-E, Windows Vista RC1 / XP Professional SP2
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Wiggett
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Posted: 1st Oct 2006 06:27
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Quote: "That's fine. You don't have to. But there's still no point in making a public announcement about it. People are going to like the company and system regardless of your opinion."


People are going to mock the ps3 on these forums regardless of your opinion too, so why is it that you choose to argue the point against two mods and half of the forum members? If you don't think their opinions will have an affect on the population then what are you worried about? wasted forum bandwidth? Just don't read the posts if it pains you so much.

Frankly I don't like the ps3 and the 360 because I don't see them as a leap towards next gen, they are basically rehash's of the older system, just with more powerful hardware. The wii incorporates a whole new style of gameplay by having a new comtrolling device that brings us one step closer to totall gaming emmersion. I may eventually get a 360 cause I like the dead rising game, although only really novelty, but I don't praise the system for being totally ultra new awesome! as their marketing people would tell me.

On the topic of next gen ai options, I have to agree that most of the new games coming out are nothing special, sure the graphics may look prettier, but in essence its still the same game play. the wii combats that by adding a whole new control scheme with the wiimote, but untill consoles start changing things like controlers and visual outputs (ie; tv;headset) we will still be playing games similar to every other game out there. Oh and gt4 hd, what a load of poop, first off the rehash of it doesn't look good, then tehy are telling us playing the game and winning doesn't achieve anything, no you have to buy the extra levels and cars, hey it works for world of warcraft! gone are the days when players had to work for their bonuses, now rich noob kids can have the fastest car just by paying for it, and johnny poorsville can jsut stand outside the window and watch.

Syndicate remastered: Corporate persuasion through urban violence.
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The admiral
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Posted: 1st Oct 2006 07:26
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I disagree ive only seen good and new things with gameplay from the next generation games. Watch the new x06 and tgs videos you will see all the new stuff and the directions. You dont have to innovate to be good anyway. Who cares if the wii has a different control device or its immersive I dont. I want to shoot things and hack stuff up with a normal controller.

The admiral
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Wiggett
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Posted: 1st Oct 2006 09:00
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then why pay $1000 aud for a new console and not just buy an old one and enjoy shooting and hacking things up on it?

Syndicate remastered: Corporate persuasion through urban violence.
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Krilik
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Posted: 1st Oct 2006 09:09
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Quote: "Well AFAIK nobody said "PS3 sucks" yet in this thread.

But, we are allowed as consumers to make educated guessed based on what we have. Because *most of us* haven't played a PS3 yet, we only have screenies and comments made by Sony execs to go by, do we not?

Because the 360 is out already, we can make better judgements as well. If you prefer to be spoonfed opinions from PR jockeys, be my guest"

My point is people aren't even looking at what little information is provided. They see what they want to and jump to conclusions. No one bothered to actually do a little research before hand.

And what's with this notion that I'm a sheep? I get the feeling that you think I have some sort of loyalty to Sony because I do my research before I go and criticize something. Its lame. And utterly predictable and typical.

Quote: "People are going to mock the ps3 on these forums regardless of your opinion too, so why is it that you choose to argue the point against two mods and half of the forum members? If you don't think their opinions will have an affect on the population then what are you worried about? wasted forum bandwidth? Just don't read the posts if it pains you so much."

There's another typical response too. Don't like it get out. As long as a few are happy though, its okay.

You're right people will mock it, but like I said earlier if they do then they better be able to defend their opinion. And I don't see how my opinion about posting deragatory remarks relevent to people posting their opinions about video games. I'm not going to argue with their opinion by telling them what I think they're doing is wrong. What I'm going to do is post facts that disprove them wrong, or weaken their opinion, which they, and other people most likely will take into consideration afterward. As can be seen in this thread. But you're right they will mock the PS3 regardless of my opinion about them mocking it, but that doesn't invalidate the purpose of arguing against their opinion.

The whole discussion that's going on has nothing to do with the actual mocking of anything at this point. Its more about whether or not people should do it, or when its appropriate to do so. Like most people you're already inclined to say that people should be able to do it. But then when someone like me comes along and decides to sit around and argue it, its all of the sudden pointless. As you point out. Why is my argument pointless, but uninformed opinions aren't?

Better yet, why does it even bother you that I'm arguing about this as this very point in time, yet you so easliy say don't read what pains you to read?

Anyway, I never said it pains me to read it. I just think its pointless for people post opinions like that without even supporting them. Hence why I pointed it out. All it does is create negativity. Anyone who may actually like GT4, PS3, or Sony is either excluded from the thread, or riticuled. I don't see why people think its okay to do that.
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