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Work in Progress / MMO War Game - Plx Test It

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GatorHex
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Posted: 19th May 2007 19:30 Edited at: 18th Oct 2007 03:03
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An experiment in building an un-cheatable MMOG war game. It works in terminal-server mode, which makes cheating impossible but reflects your own lag back to you. If you live far from the UK, or use a bad WiFi link, you might find it hard to play.

The server is online 24x7x365 but I can't guarantee anyone will be online to fight so give a copy of the client to a friend. There is also now a simple bot and a high score system.

[KEYS]
Arrow keys to move
F1 turret left
F2 turret right
F3 key to shoot
F4 to change camera view
Any alphanumeric key and press Return/Enter to send a text messages.

[VERSION 0.147]
New client to take account of our new IP address and faster speed.
Camera flick issues fixed.
Opponents name only appears if you are close to them.

[REQUIRED SPEC]
Pentium 4 2Ghz, nVidia 5200, Windows 2000,ME,XP,Vista with Direct X9.0c July 07

[MAKE AN ACCOUNT AND DOWNLOAD CLIENT FROM]
http://www.kumkie.com/war (8mb)



DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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zzz
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Posted: 19th May 2007 19:48
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It works great, nice job!

WII number: 8220 5043 6939 7393
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GatorHex
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Posted: 19th May 2007 19:55
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Wow it works thanx for testing I'll leave the server on from now on





http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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zzz
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Posted: 19th May 2007 20:09 Edited at: 19th May 2007 20:09
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WII number: 8220 5043 6939 7393

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dark coder
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Posted: 19th May 2007 20:10
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I actually totally won at the end however, he just didn't screenshot that bit . As said in game you need to account for ping in your anti-cheat system as it was rather jittery, and movements need to be simulated on the clients side too, waiting for a server response while you press controls is very annoying, make it more like BF2 and it will be a lot cooler .

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GatorHex
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Posted: 19th May 2007 20:13 Edited at: 19th May 2007 21:38
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Oh my upspeed is only 256k
2mbps down
And I'm already running a mmorpg server there too so could explain some of the lag!

I wana write my own mmorpg coz I'm fed up of cheats.

You are actualy playing a dumb terminal, this was my idea for stopping cheating, but you need a decent speed connection or it seems laggy. The plus point though is noone can cheat by sending out a lagged signal coz the server always positions you where you should be

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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Benjamin
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Posted: 19th May 2007 20:29
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Looks fun, downloading now.

Quote: "You are actualy playing a dumb terminal, this was my idea for stopping cheating,"

Actually I believe it was because you couldn't be bothered to write code for interpolation/prediction/lag compensation.

Really though, anti-cheating methods shouldn't degrade the gameplay at all.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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dark coder
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Posted: 19th May 2007 20:30
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Quote: "but you need a decent speed connection or it seems laggy"


Yeah my 52Mb down must be struggling

Your anti-cheat system works as it should, but as I said you also need to simulate the movements on the client because I have 300 ping from the Uk so I held up and I had to wait a whole 300ms for my tank to move, so when I go to shoot I have no idea when I'm going to shoot. This goes for releasing keys too. I noticed your don't account for when a user releases the key or so it seemed as I could just tap turn and the turret would turn by many degrees.

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Master Xilo
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Posted: 19th May 2007 20:45 Edited at: 19th May 2007 22:53
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COOL "GAME"
couldn't rotate turret

anyway, it was funny
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GatorHex
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Posted: 19th May 2007 20:49 Edited at: 19th May 2007 20:54
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Needs a bit more work for sure, missed something on a fast LAN, I am doing prediction just not convinced the timing is working correctly because I was using the FPS counter which we all know is not reliable so you get out of sync with where the server thinks you should be and it chucks you back.

I'm not sure how I'll work out the ping delay, probably timing between packets or something.

Well back to the drawing board until the next version

rotate turret is <> or ,. on a UK keyboard. 2/3 keys left of the right shift key. I hadn't predicted problems with no uk keyboards

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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Silvester
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Posted: 19th May 2007 21:01
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Its a cool game,but it lags like hell.Whenever you tried to shoot you had to keep it pressed a second to shoot.and movement was crappy too.

But its cool non the less.
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 19th May 2007 21:01
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Nice start, but needs some work on a few things. The bullet collision isn't very accurate at times. It's hard to aim and turn effectively because it's so jumpy, it's like the turret and tank can only jump to 8 different rotations instead of smooth rotations. Also, the bullets need to go faster. Nice start though.


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Roxas
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Posted: 19th May 2007 21:02
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Hey gatorHex i have mysql server so i can make u a server browser by sql.. So everyone can host games and in client they show in server browser.. But if my computer isnt on it says cannot connect to server browser or something and u can connect by ip instead.. if u are intersted contact me in msn jarivetoniemi@luukku.com


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GatorHex
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Posted: 19th May 2007 21:11 Edited at: 19th May 2007 21:21
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This is a picture of what my server idea is trying to avoid, clients that lie! (in the screenshot you can see haxor using flying cheat to kill unfairly)

This is not possible with my game, because it's a dumb terminal, client only sends what key you pressed, but maybe it will never be fast enough for a high speed game will see what i can do with ping timer, maybe a lag-o-meter.




http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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Benjamin
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Posted: 19th May 2007 21:24
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Quote: "This is a picture of what my server idea is trying to avoid, clients that lie! (in the screenshot you can see haxor using flying cheat to kill unfairly)"

Yes but the server doesn't need to reposition the clients every move to avoid that, only when it detects that it has made an 'illegal' move so to speak.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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GatorHex
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Posted: 19th May 2007 21:30 Edited at: 19th May 2007 21:42
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Another cheat people are using is async-lag, they read where all objects are at full speed, but only send out their position slowly. I don't think an 'illegal move' code would not pick this up.

You could kick players with big lag but this would also kick honest players with connection problems.

I dunno it's a hard decision to make as too which route I prefer, I'd love it to all be smooth at the players end, but I want a 100% honest game too

Maybe i'm paranoid, LOL

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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Benjamin
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Posted: 19th May 2007 21:39
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Quote: "I don't think an 'illegal move' code would not pick this up."

Well obviously the server checks bullet collisions and stuff so why is this a problem? It just means the 'cheater' won't be able to hit his target.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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Roxas
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Posted: 19th May 2007 21:40
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Gator u saw my post?


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GatorHex
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Posted: 19th May 2007 21:46 Edited at: 19th May 2007 21:47
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Thanx for the offer Metal Coder.

I'm gona make my own database system I think.

I've been running my previous hosted mmorpg on LUA files but I think it's time to step up to a proper database.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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Roxas
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Posted: 19th May 2007 22:07
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Okay! But my offer is up for u if u still need it


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Tinyschu
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Posted: 19th May 2007 22:31
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That was fun, nice work! Keep working on it and it will be AMAZING!

BTW, I was the player named "Kevin S."


http://www.toxingames.com
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Roxas
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Posted: 19th May 2007 23:10
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That was fun Hope u fix those lagg issues


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GatorHex
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Posted: 20th May 2007 01:29
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OK, coded new server and now it's buggered.

If you know another way to do perftimer() i need to know because my server is not giving the correct results

ticks = -1762047296
and perftimer() returns -9999999999 to +9999999999 very quickly then cycles back over.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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Roxas
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Posted: 20th May 2007 01:42
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I asked once a darkcoder for Timer Based libary and he sen hes to me U could ask him too.. Or i could find them on my comp and upload here.. I think its ok for DarkCoder..


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GatorHex
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Posted: 20th May 2007 10:14 Edited at: 20th May 2007 10:35
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Ok newer version. I dumped perfTimer() in favour of timer() (for now) because at least I know it will run everywhere.

Timing should be better but still a bit jerky, I think Benji used some kind of smoothing to get around this issue. Investigating.

Not a lot I can do about lag for those in the USA (almost the other side of the world) i calculated even with perfect condition light traveling through fibre would cause a 0.5-1.0sec latancy

Im open to sugestions as to what keys are best for turret left/right that work on international keyboards. Maybe Alt Gr and Ctrl with space to shoot?

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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Benjamin
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Posted: 20th May 2007 10:35 Edited at: 20th May 2007 10:36
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Are you still constantly repositioning the player's own object based on what the server says? Because that is what is causing all the jerkiness.

For now you don't really need to worry about cheating, do you? Besides, as I keep saying, you only have to reposition the client when they achieve a certain position or angle that they shouldn't be able to achieve in that space of time.

Are you using any kind of movement prediction at all? Also I'd be interested to know how often you send data.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
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Silvester
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Posted: 20th May 2007 10:39
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Hmm,i live in Europe and the lag it even worse then yesterday
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Roxas
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Posted: 20th May 2007 11:32 Edited at: 20th May 2007 12:12
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When i get my FPS Movement working i can send u my movement code for u then.. I just changed my movement code to keystrokes but my byte code isnt working somehow :/ I need to investigate it..


Tested:


Lagg was lesser!

Good game!


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GatorHex
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Posted: 20th May 2007 11:38 Edited at: 20th May 2007 11:39
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THanks Roxas, but i think it's something to do with my timing. I think I've got it sorted now with client v0.13

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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Syncaidius
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Posted: 20th May 2007 12:31 Edited at: 20th May 2007 12:32
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Nice work on the game so far GatorHex, its very addictive.


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Shadow heart
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Posted: 22nd May 2007 02:33
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looks good

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
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Lucifer
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Posted: 22nd May 2007 02:42
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AWESOME game, i tried it yesterday and it rocked, might i give a suggestion? add levels so players that have played it longer are better than newbies


i like pancakes..
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Silvester
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Posted: 22nd May 2007 17:21
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Lucifer,that would require some sort of login system for him though,OR storing it on IP adress.
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GatorHex
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Posted: 22nd May 2007 17:37
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It will happen eventualy, my idea is for a MMORPG in the style of GTA. Eventualy you will have a little person that runs around and if you make enough money you can buy vehicles and weapons and drive them around killing each other.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 22nd May 2007 17:47
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Quote: "It will happen eventualy, my idea is for a MMORPG in the style of GTA. Eventualy you will have a little person that runs around and if you make enough money you can buy vehicles and weapons and drive them around killing each other. "

I like the basis of the game . Some suggestions: maybe keep it war-oriented, where it's more like a war than a city killing rampage like GTA, eventually add the ability to form squads or even armies, maybe have a territory system, where certain armies/squads can take control of them? Just a few ideas, you don't have to like them .


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TEST OF WILL
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Posted: 26th May 2007 03:38
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This is pretty amazing just make it so when you shoot the houses they make an explosion and you can't go through them

OFF TOPIC:


When is your name in War Rock?
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Green7
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Posted: 27th May 2007 11:37
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@ GatorHex: do you like to continue this tank game? so if you do not mind, i got a little time to spend for modelling. if you need something, e.g. buildings, fences, walls, what ever, just tell me.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 27th May 2007 14:54
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@Green7
You reminded me to brush up on my modelling skills, thanks. (You are probably reading this going "ooooookaay...")

@GatorHex
Awsome work man! It's just sad how everytime I try and play it, no one else is online.


Cheers,

-db


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Diggsey
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Posted: 27th May 2007 18:08
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It's cool

It's just a shame that it's so easy to hack



VISIT MY WEBSITE!
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dark coder
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Posted: 27th May 2007 18:13
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How does changing your client side health help anything? I'm pretty sure he calculates damage and stuff on the server side thus changing anything on your screen won't matter.

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Diggsey
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Posted: 27th May 2007 18:15 Edited at: 27th May 2007 18:23
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@Dark coder
But I bet he only checks if you die on the client side rather than the server side

edit:
If you're still there, can we have a game
(I have left mine on, so join if you see this within the next hour or so)

edit2:
Your MSN address seems to be wrong


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dark coder
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Posted: 27th May 2007 18:34
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So I've been showing the wrong MSN address all these years well I fixed it now.

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GatorHex
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Posted: 27th May 2007 19:07 Edited at: 27th May 2007 19:12
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Yes i'm trying to do stuff server side to avoid hacking.

How did you manage to change the value?

Did you test it to see if it works?

I'm using this for my MSc project so i'm interested in learning how you did this

I'm on now. If you want to test it when noone is on try opening two clients (yeah I've not got around to stopping that yet)

War MMORPG http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=106577&b=8
DinoHunter http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=98385&b=8
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Diggsey
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Posted: 27th May 2007 19:10
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No, I tried it and it doesn't work. You must check dying either server side, or right after the values are updated.

Search for ArtMoney in google. That's what I used


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Xenocythe
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Posted: 27th May 2007 22:29
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I'll download and test with you


DarkDev- Team Requests, forums, galleries, and more
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Roxas
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 18:23
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hey gator.. u should change ur singature text

Quote: "
War MMORPG

Should be

War (M)MO
"


Im not sure is it yet massive but one thing i know.. Does this have anything to do with RPG? If it does then never mind about this


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GatorHex
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2007 19:39 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2007 19:42
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It's not setup yet but it will enable you to upgrade your character over time. Role playing doesn't have to mean Dungeons and Dragons. The style I'm gona head for is like GTA, but I might just submit a war game for my MSc to simplify things for now.

It currently supports 100 players, so it could be massive, I've tested it at 500 and the server struggles at about 5fps.. er one day it will be massive.

I've not got much time to work on it at the mo as i have to hand in a project plan to my supervisor by Friday so I'm working on that at the mo. I've got my SQL server running and item LUA files but this stuff hasn't been released in the client yet.

War MMORPG http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=106577&b=8
DinoHunter http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=98385&b=8
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2007 19:55
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Quote: "It currently supports 100 players, so it could be massive, I've tested it at 500 and the server struggles at about 5fps.. er one day it will be massive."

If you're talking about on one map, then I wouldn't worry about supporting that much, even the best commercial games only support max of like 64 per map .


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GatorHex
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2007 21:53
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Yeah I've not got around to zoning it yet. I'm thinking of using bridges and boats as portals between zones.

I saw a money program about There or Another Life or some such and it's got me interested in letting players make models for the world and owning virtual land. However i find chat worlds boring mine will definatly have gangs and guns and deaths and wars oh and fun

War MMORPG http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=106577&b=8
DinoHunter http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=98385&b=8
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Zombie 20
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2007 23:35 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2007 23:46
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downloading now, can't wait to play

phtt noone was there

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