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3 Dimensional Chat / X10 WW2 Pack

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alimpo83
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 15:43
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Hi all,

I've decided to start making a WW2 pack for FPSC X10, while I'm waiting for it to arrive.

The first model I'm making is a Screaming Mimi, the Nebelwerfer.
It's very wip, but you can see the lod i'm going to. Mind that the final model will have a normal map applied for further details.

I'm making the following models, as for now:
- Destroyed Bridge
- Three types of destroyed buildings
- The Enigma code machine

besides this one of course.
Tell what you think of this first WIP.




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Fuzz
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Posted: 21st Dec 2007 16:15
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nice

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alimpo83
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 01:28
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Here's a new screen.



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baconboy2
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 12:27
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that looks great, good work alimpo!



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alimpo83
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 13:30
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The model is done, now I'm going for texturing. I've decided not to go any further concerning poly count, it's very low poly and with the textures will look very nice.



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RUCCUS
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 16:41 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2007 16:42
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You should delete all of the cannon-barrel type things except for one, UV-Map / Texture that, then duplicate them and reposition them in the modeller. Will save a lot of time and uv map space. Same goes for the wheels, and you could probably get away with splitting the cart in half, uv mapping that, then mirroring the cart model for an even smaller uv map.

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alimpo83
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 19:07
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I never do that in my models, I always uvmap every single piece to get small diferences and imperfections to achieve more realistic effects, because you'll never get exactly equal objects in real life.

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 19:16
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You could easily rotate the barrels on the z axis randomly to get them to look different.

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alimpo83
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 20:27
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I'm used working this way, but thanks for the comments.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 23:43
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Well... you can save alot of texture space and greatly increase the details if you just use 1 or 2 UV mapped barrels. I'd say UV map 2 and do the rotation trick on them for the other barrels. Otherwise you'll need to greatly increase texture size, or add another texture or 2. If these are for games you have to figure out little cheats and work arounds like that to max out the game's efficiency. You won't sacrifice any realism, chances are no one would even realize if they were all different anyhow.

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn

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alimpo83
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 03:05
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I don't know how you guys uvmap, but I only need one texture like 1024x1024, even 512x512, for the whole model. I uvmap in anim8or, then export, and it's not the first model for games that I make.
I edit my textures in GIMP, where I create them from combining different ones.

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AndrewT
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 03:43 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2007 03:43
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Quote: "I only need one texture like 1024x1024, even 512x512"


You might only need a texture that size, but fitting 6 barrels on that size texture will make the barrel textures small and blurred.

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alimpo83
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 04:12
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No it won't, you'll see when I post. It never has really. Did you guys ever modelled and textured before?

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 07:03
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Uh, yes. Its industry standard to do what we're telling you to do, we know what we're talking about. The fact remains that you'll get more detail on the barrels if you UV-Map one, than uv mapping all of them, assuming you use the same size texture. Otherwise you'll need to use a bigger texture, which means more lag.

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alimpo83
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 12:29
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Like a 512x512 or a 1024x1024 would be problem for x10, not even in x9. No lag really.

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Alucard94
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 12:44
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Otherwise you could just uvmap all the barrels then in your uvmap overlay all the barrels(by rotating their uv's slightly to make them look like the one your overlaying)on top of one of them, that way you technically you uvmap all the barrels but save allot of space.

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alimpo83
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 14:23
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Here's a texture WIP. The tyres have not been yet been textured. It's a 512x512 texture and a 512x512 bump map.

I'm preparing 2 or 3 different texture types, for different ambience: snowy , desert and forest versions.



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RUCCUS
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 15:42 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2007 15:44
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It wouldnt be a problem in X10, or X9, like you said. But seeing that you do this for all of your models, if you or someone using your models ever did get a decent game going, they would have thousands of these poorly uv-mapped models with large textures, which will lag, even in X10. Not to mention it increases the download size of the game for no reason, as from looking at those barrels they seem to look pretty identical so far.

But I'll leave you alone now, you really should consider practicing good texturing techniques though.

<edit>

Also... it looks a bit stony right now, are you going to make it look more metalic? Or were they made of stone back then?

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alimpo83
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 16:37
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You talk about something you don't really know, and that's sad. Maybe you should get a life, first, then talk about things you really understand.
BTW, the model is only 58 kb, plus the texture, about 750 kb x2. That's about a 1.5 megabytes. That's pretty average, or maybe it's too big for you.
The final model in X9 with all the files(fpe,dbo...) is like 1,7 megabytes. OMG, now that's too much! (add another 750 kb if you want a diffuse texture, so, 2.5 megabytes!)

Most important, you can use the same textures for different models, so even less space.

Ah, WIP means Work in Progress, in case you don't know.
Here's a screen with 10 nebels at the same time (with a random 512x512 texture), something that will probably never happen in a WW2 game. FPS? 33.

Let us work, there's always someone who doesn't do anything that criticizes what he can't acomplish. I'm pretty sure most people will be glad to have this kind of models.



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Alucard94
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 16:42
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Alimpo, seriously shut up. Stop acting like a ignorant bastard.
All RUCCUS is trying to do is help you and you are just responding immaturely.
And by the way, Ruccus is a great modeler so do not even go there...

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Venge
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 16:54 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2007 16:54
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Quote: "Alimpo, seriously shut up. Stop acting like a ignorant bastard."


I second that. Great artists are always looking for ways to improve. However you seem to think your way is best and are refusing to even consider another method, and have been reduced to making weak insults of a ten year old with a shiny new toy. Grow up.

Modelled and rendered in Blender. Free software ftw.
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SpyDaniel
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 17:09
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Your model and texture aren't even that good. Either stop with the arrogance or start listening to real artists.

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AndrewT
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 17:17
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Umm, alimpo83, have you ever actually seen RUCCUS' work?? It's loads better than that rock cannon thing, which, by the way, looks as if the texture is a 256x256 img that's tiled over the model.

asdsdfaghkdlgahdfkj.
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RUCCUS
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 17:20 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2007 17:24
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You're missing the point. Yes, the model on it's own is perfectly fine with a large texture. But if you do this with every model for a game, and baring in mind the average game nowadays has hundreds of complex models, there's going to be a significant increase in download time and lag.

Quote: "FPS? 33."


You kind of just proved my point. You only have 10 models in that scene with a skybox / terrain, and you're only getting 33 FPS . Or is the framerate automatically capped in FPSC?

Anyways my stone comment wasnt an attempt to poke fun, just thought it looked a bit stony.

Merry x-mas .

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Reality Forgotten
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 17:35
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Ruccus,

It's capped in FPSC..but I agree with everything you have said..


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alimpo83
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 18:09
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I didn't start the model pack or the thread to be insulted, by some people who don't know me and start making conceptions of my behavior. And don't tell me to shut up, I speak my mind whenever I want to.
And Ruccus, if you didn't knew FPSC was capped at 33 fps, well, you really don't know FPSC so you can't be making calculations concerning fps in game. Many of FPSC default models have 512x512 textures and even bigger ones. The problem with FPS Creator engine is the polycount of the models, and not the textures.
And if you didn't mean to poke fun of my model textures, that wasn't the best choice of words.
Higgins, I'd love to see your models that are so special and Kermit I've never seen any of your work.

When I have the model pack I'll post it in the "models and media", so MOD please lock. Since this is becoming a flame war, it's better that way.

Merry Christmas to all.

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 18:25
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you're the only one doing the flamage .

I invite you to read any of my posts over and tell me where I was insulting you. I just pointed out a superior way to UV-Map, and you went berserk.

Anyways I'll stop posting but now that you've asked for it to be locked I doubt that will help much.

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alimpo83
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 18:31
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Quote: "Also... it looks a bit stony right now, are you going to make it look more metalic? Or were they made of stone back then?"


That's not insulting? BTW that's not really poiting out a superior way of doing anything.
I thanked the comments at the beginning and you insisted in doing your way. I have mine, you have yours, that's what it's not understood since the beginning.

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RUCCUS
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 18:36 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2007 18:39
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I was honestly asking if the barrels were made from stone back then... I was unsure. Sorry if it seemed like a stupid question. And please look over some uv-mapping tutorials, you'll find we aren't making this stuff up.

<edit>

Gah, there I go again posting when I said I was done. Well, now Im done .

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alimpo83
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 18:41
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That seems weird, but allright, if you didn't knew.
I'm going to uvmap two ways, your way and mine, but I really don't think that will affect FPSC fps, because of what I said before: the polycount is the problem, and that can really cause horrible lag.

No harm done, then.

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Cheese Cake
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 18:52
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I agree with RUCCUS.
Its better his way and its very easy.

Quote: "BTW, the model is only 58 kb, plus the texture, about 750 kb x2. That's about a 1.5 megabytes. That's pretty average, or maybe it's too big for you.
The final model in X9 with all the files(fpe,dbo...) is like 1,7 megabytes. OMG, now that's too much! (add another 750 kb if you want a diffuse texture, so, 2.5 megabytes!)"

The size doesnt really matter...unless its a 1 gb model but okey, that will change the whole story.

Also try to get some details in the textures...
Right now its a good model, with a pretty basic texture.

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Blobby 101
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 19:32
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well, textures do cause a difference - in my game, at the beginning all the models had a 1024 * 768 bitmap texture. the loading time was about 30 secs. when i lowered the resolution slightly, re uv mapped the objects and changed the bitmaps to .pngs the loading time dropped to about 10 secs. it's surprising how much difference textures actually can make.


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Alsan
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 19:47 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2007 19:49
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@ blobby 101: I think it's actually the format that made the big difference there.

Some time ago I made a test:


(Größe = size, Ladezeit = load time)

/edit: Why doesn't this forum support space characters in image URLs? That's dumb.

Sorry for interfering.

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alimpo83
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2007 23:59
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Mod, please don't lock. All has been solved really.

Here's a WIP on the Desert SM(Screaming Mimi, the nickname allied forces gave the Nebelwerfer, because of the sound it made when firing). I used the technique you guys talked about, and mirrored half the model. I had to rotate the barrels to give them differences(the effect isn't as good as independent texturing, but I think I can live with it.) The bump is a different texture I prepared.



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mastercheif 193
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Posted: 24th Dec 2007 02:26
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That looks really good alimpo83. Great Job.
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alimpo83
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Posted: 27th Dec 2007 23:56
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Here's a test with the snowy version.



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Fuzz
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Posted: 29th Dec 2007 10:49
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looking good

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Peter gee
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Posted: 13th Jan 2008 18:28
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how much will u be selling this pack for?

noob and proud
the 12 year old game creator
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