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Geek Culture / Going to North Korea in August--- any advice?

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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 22:03 Edited at: 21st Mar 2007 22:05
Well after getting quite a bit back from my taxes, and a nice raise from work, I'm finally putting the wheels in motion for my trip to the hermit kingdom. The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is perhaps the most "Twilight Zone" and secretive country you can visit, and I'm going to a guided tour through their most famous cities including their capital, Pyongyang.

I'll be vising the demilitarized zone (staring back at the South Koreans and Americans!), the birthplace of their leaders, their children's palace, king's tombs, Arch of Triumph (Paris knockoff but a lot larger), etc. and staying in 4-star hotels that will be completely empty aside from the few tourists. Their wide roads are almost completely car-free, and we'll be going on the subway too.

Finally we're topping it off with a performance of their Mass Games. In case you're not familiar, it takes place in the largest stadium *in the world*, with 100,000 synchronized dancers, performers, military, etc., and only occurs for a few months every 3 years or so. The participants train every single day for years to prepare. They also have thousands of schoolchildren taking up the back section of the stadium, each holding coloured paper, essentially a pixel per kid to display the largest picture in the world. They will then animate the images and go through a slideshow throughout the show.

I am crazy excited, but I'm a bit nervous because I have to go from Beijing. Has anyone been to Beijing? Is it easy to get around with just English?

Please don't turn this into a political chat. I'm quite aware of the North's politics as I'm a bit of a DPRK nut. Just felt so excited I wanted to share the news

Matt Rock
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 22:17
Good luck, be safe, and have fun! Sounds like one heck of a trip. I'm not sure how they treat/ view westerners, I always get the impression that we're not loved over there, but then I've never been there and I'm forming a view based on the media, which is never a wise thing to do. Still, be careful over there Jake, watch your back and all that.

You might want to pick up one of those digital translation devices, a friend of mine went to Japan with one of those a while back and he said it worked great.


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
Venge
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 22:44
Beijing is supposed to have lots of...clouds...or something...
Because of all the coal they burn.
don't choke and die

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Grandma
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 22:59
Nice, remember to tell us all about it when you get back, don't leave out any details. One innocent question though, why not South Korea?

Also, tell Jimmy boy i said hi!

Quote: "[...]but then I've never been there and I'm forming a view based on the media, which is never a wise thing to do."


Agreed. Often, the real thing can be black while on the media it's portrayed as white (or vice versa)....in most cases though you will find that it's infact grey.

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Jeku
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Posted: 21st Mar 2007 23:08
Thanks for the comments, guys

Surprisingly, North Korea is one of, if not *the* safest place to go for a tourist. They only get a few thousand tourists a year, so they need our cash. There is virtually no chance of getting mugged --- if a local person so much as looks at you wrong they can go to prison. This is not a good thing and I'm not condoning it, but I'm just using it as an example as to why it's safe. Also, you have guides assigned to you 24x7--- you absolutely can NOT leave their sight at all times. You can't, for example, get peckish and go to the corner store by yourself to get a Coke. For one thing, there are no stores in that country! They have tourist shops for foreigners in designated locations--- only. Most of the locals have no concept of money, as their provisioned are rationed by the government.

Most of the things we take for granted are banned--- cellphones, video cameras, internet, etc. When you go there you are told that your hotel room is most likely bugged, so it's very Big Brother. I'm going through Koryo Tours as they are the only tour company that is allowed in the country!

Also, the locals are very nice and friendly toward foreigners. Most of them have never seen a non-Korean, so they may come up to you to talk. There is virtually no crime in their cities--- no graffiti, no litter, etc. 10% of their population is in slave labour camps for the littlest infractions, so most everyone is on their best behaviour.

It's just so fascinating. I urge everyone to read up on its history

Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 00:01
Wow, didn't know it was that controlled . Sounds like something one of those paranoid writers would come up with as the prediction for the future . Have fun, sounds like they're nice to foreigners at least, heh .


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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 00:12 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2007 00:13
You'll probably get a minder/translator, so you wont be able to wander off talking to people you shouldn't do - but then you mentioned that already...

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Peter H
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 00:28
Quote: "any advice?"

soak it all in, have fun, and think about deep questions like the meaning of life

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DrewG
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 00:33
Hey, remember that conversation we had back months ago, where you were telling me you were going to North Korea. I though you had told me they hate Americans, and it'd be dangerous if someone as myself were to go there? IDK, maybe it has changed in the past months..

-Drew

ps - have fun, and post some pictures of the archetectural design and the culture there, if you don't mind, I'm quite interested on seeing how everything looks there.

Thanks.
Benjamin
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 00:48
Sounds like an interesting place, be sure to post about it when you get back. When are you going by the way?

Quote: "and it'd be dangerous if someone as myself were to go there"

I can imagine it would be dangerous for you to go there, but not because you're American.

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DrewG
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 00:56
Quote: "I can imagine it would be dangerous for you to go there, but not because you're American. "


And why is that? Because my uberness is too great for third world countries?
Benjamin
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 00:59
Yes.. yes that is it.

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DrewG
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 01:01 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2007 01:02
And so? What's wrong with me being uber?

P.S

In the ps2/xbox game "mercenaries" you visit around pyongyang also, so the maps may be scaled with the actual country. But what do they mean by demilitarized?
Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 01:18 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2007 01:19
Alright, I'll answer a few questions here:

Quote: "I though you had told me they hate Americans, and it'd be dangerous if someone as myself were to go there? IDK, maybe it has changed in the past months.."


Yes, Americans and South Koreans are not allowed to go. American forces basically leveled their country during the Korean War, and they are brought up to see them as their top enemy. Let's not get too much into that in this forum--- just accept it as it is. They have made a few exceptions over the past 50-odd years, but I wouldn't hold your breath They also don't allow professional photographers or journalists of any kind whatsoever.

They have made amazing progress. Almost all of their large statues, buildings, monuments, etc. were built after the war. Pretty astounding considering they are very poor.

Quote: "I'm quite interested on seeing how everything looks there. "


I will definitely post pictures up on my blog when I get back. In the meantime, you can see some of Pyongyang here:

http://www.travel-images.com/korean.html

Quote: "When are you going by the way?"


August 13-21. 7 days will be in North Korea, and I'll be doing the extra overnight train option through Dandong. Dandong is the border city between China and North Korea.

EDIT:

Quote: "But what do they mean by demilitarized?"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Demilitarized_Zone

DrewG
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 01:24
Wow, heavy blockade of a border.

Quote: "leveled their country"

yeah well...

It looks nice from the pics. It'd be nice to travel there. I guess I'll apply for Mexican Citizenship once I'm retired later on in life, so I can visit sometime. It'd be cool to try and sneak around all those guards on the DMZ. Y'know, like Splinter Cell.

-Drew
Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 02:03
Quote: "It'd be cool to try and sneak around all those guards on the DMZ. Y'know, like Splinter Cell. "


Good luck with that The guard soldiers on the North side of the DMZ are trained to shoot anyone who tries to cross the line, after a Russian ran across not too long ago.

Osiris
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 02:05
Quote: "Yes, Americans and South Koreans are not allowed to go. American forces basically leveled their country during the Korean War, and they are brought up to see them as their top enemy. Let's not get too much into that in this forum--- just accept it as it is. They have made a few exceptions over the past 50-odd years, but I wouldn't hold your breath They also don't allow professional photographers or journalists of any kind whatsoever."


Well the National Geographic channel went to North Korea, some of them were American, and they were professional Journalists/Photographers. However I must warn you, if you are going to take any pictures of "The Great Leader" you have to take it in whole, by that I mean you cant leave any part of him out, or they will make you leave the next day.

http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/channel/blog/2007/02/explorer_korea.html
Here is a link to the National Geographic Page.

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DrewG
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 02:07
Quote: "Good luck with that The guard soldiers on the North side of the DMZ are trained to shoot anyone who tries to cross the line, after a Russian ran across not too long ago."


Dude, Jeku, I can't die, I have life insurrance .
Agent Dink
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 02:27
Sounds like a fun and very interesting trip! Certainly not a location I would choose, considering the tension through the past years, and even now, but it really does sound like it will be excellent. Stay safe, stay with your guides, and bring lots of refreshments if you aren't allowed to leave the group (you might get shot or something )

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DrewG
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 02:29
o rly? well you play paintball just so you can get shot 9 times.
Agent Dink
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 02:31
A paintball is very different than a bullet ...if you didn't know that.

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Steve J
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 02:32
DMZ sound fun, we should have one on our mexican border

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indi
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 02:35
I no see your dog fluffy, did your dog have like juicy hind legs, o.O
I would suggest steering clear of market food unless your game to try new meats

DrewG
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 02:35 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2007 02:36
Quote: "A paintball is very different than a bullet ...if you didn't know that."


I got that from TV.

Quote: "DMZ sound fun, we should have one on our mexican border"


Are you stupid? have you ever even lively been to the Mexican border? I mean, you can walkin by foot with anything, but getting back to the US is like going to disneyland on the busiest day of the year waiting for a ride for several hours.
But that would be cool, wait, no, too many hispanic would be shot. Since if there was one, they're supposed to be shot on site. (No racial slurrs are meant.)

-Drew


EDIT :
Quote: "I no see your dog fluffy, did your dog have like juicy hind legs, o.O
I would suggest steering clear of market food unless your game to try new meats "

What?
Steve J
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 02:37 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2007 02:38
I lived in Texas for 4 years. At least on my side it was extremely easy, and I justed hopped the rusted fences to get back over.

And a DMZ works so that BOTH sides have a military post there.


edit: Korea, Philippines, and a lot of Asia have dog as a delicacy to eat.

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DrewG
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 02:39
Why would you go over a rusted fence?

And thanks for enlightening me.
Steve J
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 02:41
We used to light fireworks on the Mexican side on 4th of July.

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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 02:48
Quote: "Well the National Geographic channel went to North Korea, some of them were American, and they were professional Journalists/Photographers."


Exceptions can be made, and this was one of the first times an American journalism team were allowed in the country. Upon some research I have found exceptions have been made only two or three times since the Korean War. However, for tours, this is a definite no-no.

Quote: "However I must warn you, if you are going to take any pictures of "The Great Leader" you have to take it in whole, by that I mean you cant leave any part of him out, or they will make you leave the next day."


I haven't heard anything about being forced to leave the next day, but I did know about the unwritten rule about photographing the dear leader or the great leader. Basically they can take your camera from you if you don't ask permission at all times when and where you can take a photo. If photoing the statues of the leaders, you must take the entire statue, and a straight shot (not crooked, etc.)

Quote: "I no see your dog fluffy, did your dog have like juicy hind legs, o.O
I would suggest steering clear of market food unless your game to try new meats"


Well I love trying new things, so I will eat dog if they serve it to me. The typical Korean diet is kimchi (fermented cabbage with spice) and a little bit of meat, but tourists are given tons of food of all sorts. They even try to make western food for you, which I won't like as part of going on vacation is eating exotic food!

The DMZ has the largest concentration of land mines on the planet, so even after the two countries reunify, it will be hell removing them.

I absolutely can't wait to go. It's a little expensive, 1900 euros, but it's all-inclusive (hotels, food, etc.). However I have to pay extra to fly to Beijing as it's the only way into North Korea. In total with souvenirs and everything I expect to pay about $5k Canadian, which isn't too too bad for a one-in-a-lifetime opportunity like this.

Milkman
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 02:48 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2007 02:50
(to steve j)

Who needs a signature?
Steve J
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 02:56
@Milkman: Texas put a ban on Fireworks, cause of the dryness, sucked bad, so mexico is the 2nd best I guess=P

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indi
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 03:07
Jeku, my japanese mate is married to a south korean girl.
Kimchi is very hot mate and stinks out the fridge.
I dont know about eating dog, I have had snake, kangaroo, crocodile etc..

Korean barbecue is awesome if you get the chance.
basically all the meat and vegies are chopped up and the girls at your table cook it in the middle over hot rocks.

Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 03:20
Quote: "American forces basically leveled their country during the Korean War, and they are brought up to see them as their top enemy."

Sounds like a great way to keep up (or have a chance of starting, more like) diplomatic relations, just raise everyone up to hate us instead of making peace . I'm surprised they expect people to tell a difference between a Canadian or an American, I can barely tell .

Quote: "They also don't allow professional photographers or journalists of any kind whatsoever."

Good Morning America's Diane Sawyer reported from there a few weeks ago, but like you said, I guess there are exceptions.

Don't think I'd ever eat dog, maybe something like crocodile or kangaroo though .


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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 04:06
Just uhh..... Don't get shot, and uh..... be sure to make it home ok so you can work back at EA and so we can play your games. Oh yeah, have fun.

Ian T
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 04:19
Awesome stuff, man. How/why did you arrange this? I would personally love to visit/tour/stay in Hong Kong and South Korea some day, but it seems like such an impossibly costly and difficult-to-arrange concept.
Agent Dink
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 05:12
Eating dog seems *almost* cannibalistic to me, since here in the US they are such a common member of one's family. I can't see killing the cute little guys who show so much respect, love, and devotion to their owners to eat. They offer much more enjoyment in 10 to 15 years than they do on your plate for 10 to 15 minutes.

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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 05:49 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2007 05:51
Quote: "Kimchi is very hot mate and stinks out the fridge."


Yah, my wife went through phases over the years where she'd make kimchi for a few weeks straight. I love it!

Quote: "How/why did you arrange this?"


Well my good buddy was living in China and told me about his interest in going to North Korea. I read up as much as I could on the country and, being interested in bizarre places to visit, immediately fell in love with the concept of going. When my friend got back to Canada he bought me a bunch of souvenirs--- t-shirts, postcards, and even a funny propaganda book called "How the Imperialist Americans Started the Korean War". Such a bizarre and controversial place.

I mean, if you asked 100,000 people "Have you ever been to North Korea?", how many would you expect would say yes? 1, if that? Koryo Tours is the only place that gives tours, and they have your schedule and itinerary pretty much packed for 4 or 7 days, depending on how much you want to spend. Because of flooding from last year, the Mass Games was held off until this year, and because it's only every 3 or 4 years they hold the Mass Games, I thought that if I'm going to go, this is the year.

Literally the day that I got the proper pricing and conversion rates for the trip and feeling a bit depressed, I got a raise at work. Plus I'm getting a nice chunk of change back from my taxes.

When the North Korean regime falls, the country will be opened to the public and the country that is 50 years in the past will be no more. Litter and graffiti will fill the streets. McDonalds, Starbucks and Walmarts will be around every corner. I just want to go somewhere where I won't be inundated with ads everywhere I look, a place that the world left behind.

Osiris
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 06:04
Take lots of pictures...because by the time I can go it will be tainted by corporations. Also, it will take me a while to think up a way to go even though im American...

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Steve J
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Say your a UN Inspector

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El Goorf
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2007 22:43 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2007 22:46
i'd love to know how it goes, i too plan on going to north korea some time. thing is i don't have the $$$, so for now i'm having to make do with Iran, which i'll be visiting this summer. its something to do with the "axis of evil", it's quite a turn-on for me (i'm not joking either). I have a deep desire to see what the world is like with my own eyes, without some western journalist or politician telling me what to think. Theres no such thing as bad publicity ^_^.

ps you ever tried reading the north korean news? it's full of rather interesting twists or our version of world events... the general jist i get is "the south koreans want to be like us" and "the japanese are dirty dogs who should be wiped from the earth!"

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Grandma
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 00:51
ohhh Iran, that's one place i've been wanting to go for years now. Maybe go skiing or something, supposed to be very nice there. I don't see Iran as evil or anything, that's just silly. Nuclear power is evil now?

Anyways, Tehran i like, good shopping city i've heard, you can find alot of interesting stuff to buy there.

http://www.worldisround.com/articles/98910/index.html

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DrewG
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 01:38
Quote: "i'd love to know how it goes, i too plan on going to north korea some time. thing is i don't have the $$$, so for now i'm having to make do with Iran, which i'll be visiting this summer. its something to do with the "axis of evil", it's quite a turn-on for me (i'm not joking either). I have a deep desire to see what the world is like with my own eyes, without some western journalist or politician telling me what to think. Theres no such thing as bad publicity ^_^.

ps you ever tried reading the north korean news? it's full of rather interesting twists or our version of world events... the general jist i get is "the south koreans want to be like us" and "the japanese are dirty dogs who should be wiped from the earth!""


Why would you go to Iran?

Go somewhere nice, like Coronado, California.
Steve J
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 01:47
I would rather go to Iran than southern Cali

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DrewG
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 03:57

How come?
dab
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 05:55
Quote: "How come? "


Because I was born around there?.... Ok maybe not. But We shouldn't stray too far from Jeku's subject of the exotic Korea trip.

Jeku
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 07:47
Thing is, Iran really doesn't interest me. In fact it kind of frightens me--- being a white dude and all.

I love reading the North Korean papers too! They have them online (for what reason I don't know, as they don't have Internet in the country). Interestingly every single article mentions Kim Jong-Il and/or Kim Il-Sung, and gives him credit for absolutely everything good that happens. Remember, the people there live in a country with a strong personality cult, so they are brought up believing their leader is God himself.

Interesting links:

Pictures of Pyongyang Metro - http://www.pyongyang-metro.com/metrophotos.html

Pyongyang Library containing full text books written by North Korea leaders: - http://www.korea-dpr.com/library/entrance.htm

Actual facts given to us by the government-controlled local media:

- Kim Jong-Il routinely gets 3 or 4 holes in one per round of golf, making him the most outstanding golf athlete the world has ever known. In fact, he scored 11 holes in one his very first time playing the game.

- Upon Kim Jong-Il's birth, a double-rainbow was to be found in the sky and a new star was born.

There are so many, it's great reading about all these things

Grandma
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 15:23 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2007 15:24
Quote: "being a white dude and all."


Well what do you mean Jeku?

Most Iranians are white too. The name "Iran" even means "aryan", literally "Land of the aryans".

Look at the link i posted first page, it has a few pictures of the people there too.

Quote: "Upon Kim Jong-Il's birth, a double-rainbow was to be found in the sky and a new star was born."


Lol, the prophecy is true! He's the chosen one.

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 17:54
Quote: "- Kim Jong-Il routinely gets 3 or 4 holes in one per round of golf, making him the most outstanding golf athlete the world has ever known. In fact, he scored 11 holes in one his very first time playing the game."


Lol... I can't believe people would believe that bull. But I guess if the media says so it *must* be true.

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Steve J
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 18:27
Agent Dink, the culture is literally from day one brought up on worse propaganda than even the US can provide!

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Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 19:47 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2007 19:47
One interesting thing about using propaganda/news systems(in countries where the "news" is controlled by the government anyway), is that sometimes leaving out information you don't like can be much more powerful than just providing the opposite of the information.

I.E. to suppress rumors of an invasion, real or not, you would say "Cold weather expected to continue..."

instead of, "Rumors of invasion are false"

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
Agent Dink
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 20:26
Quote: "Agent Dink, the culture is literally from day one brought up on worse propaganda than even the US can provide!"


Oh I know... And I bet no one in North Korea has ever even played golf, so they wouldn't even know how near impossible this is.

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