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Geek Culture / Graphics Cards- which type?!?!

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Julius Caesar
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 17:01
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Hi all! I am thinking about buying a new graphics card (hopefully from the USA considering exchange rates!), so that I can actually start to see what all the hype about shaders is!

The trouble is, I don't know what type of card I need! I am the biggest n00b in the world when it comes to hardware, so help is much appreciated.

I am not scared to open up my computer, I have replaced hard drives before [took me 3 hours if anyone wants a laugh!]. I have £70, which is like $140, so I am not exactly rich.

I want to be able to run shaders etc. and see for myself!

SO basically what I am asking is:
1) Can someone please explain to me the difference between the three types of graphics cards (PCI-E, PCI and AGP) and how I determine which one I need.

and

2) What kind of graphics card do you recommend? I would like good performance, but I don't really play that many games, all I really play is what you guys come up with, and what the DB errorr checker misses on my code lol!


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UnderLord
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 17:27
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What kind of motherboard do you have?

I recommend Nvidia 7600 series or above since they will all play just about any game but i personally have a 7950gt and it is a nice card, will be getting a 8800gt sooner or later

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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Julius Caesar
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 17:35
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Now is where I make myself sound stupid!

How do I find out what type of motherboard I have?


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Grandma
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 18:19
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Quote: "1) Can someone please explain to me the difference between the three types of graphics cards (PCI-E, PCI and AGP) and how I determine which one I need."


If you have a relative new motherboard (somwhere within 1.5 years old), then you should most likely have support for PCI-Express which is the newest and fastest.

Comp : 1024mb Ram, 3.0ghz, GeforceFX 5800, 1,1TB storage
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Julius Caesar
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 18:24
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ok, I got my PC last summer, so I should support PCI-Express right? Thanks Grandma!

I don't actually have a graphics card atm, it is one of those built in ones! Come to think of it though, it does call itself an "Express Chipset"...

anyway, for interests sake, how do I work out what sort of motherboard I have?


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Grandma
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 18:27
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You could look for the driver CD's for your computer or some manual. It should say what motherboard you have, or you could open the case and look directly at the motherboard, on some mobo's there's a sticker with the name on it.

Comp : 1024mb Ram, 3.0ghz, GeforceFX 5800, 1,1TB storage
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Julius Caesar
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 18:32
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Ok, so if I was to open it up, and peer into the mystic chasmic depths, what would I look at to decide?

Thanks for your help so far!


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GatorHex
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 18:45
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PCI-E is normaly a distinctive colour like blue. There might be a long one 16x and short one 1x

AGP tend to be brown and you only get one slot

old PCI tend to be black or cream and you get about 3-5 slots

The 7600 is a good all rounder for about $100/£50. If you go for higher end cards you may have to check you power supply can handle supplying more power for it.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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Julius Caesar
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 18:46
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ok, so are you talking about the cards themselves GatorHex, or the slots for them? because I currently do not have a card installed!

Thanks!


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Grandma
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 18:52 Edited at: 29th Apr 2007 18:53
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Quote: "Ok, so if I was to open it up, and peer into the mystic chasmic depths, what would I look at to decide?"


Hmmmm, well you could look for the brand (Asus, Abit, MSI) followed by the model number(i.e. "P965"). Then locate the homepage for the mobo and search that site for your spesific model. There you will find all the techical info about your mobo and what cards it support etc.

Comp : 1024mb Ram, 3.0ghz, GeforceFX 5800, 1,1TB storage
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Julius Caesar
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 18:57
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OK, will do, so, I open up my PC and just look at my motherboard for writing?

Gotcha! Im off! Back in 5!


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Julius Caesar
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 19:10 Edited at: 29th Apr 2007 19:11
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OK, I have looked in my computer !!

I saw 2 light coloured slots side by side. They were a light brown. After a quick google search, they looked pretty similar to the PCI slots on there.

So, can this definatively prove that I have PCI slots, or could they be PCI express slots still?

They definately weren't purple, so I doubt that they will be AGP! Plus I heard somewhere that AGP was really old anyway...

Thanks!

EDIT: ps. Sorry to double post!


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The Nerd
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 19:52 Edited at: 29th Apr 2007 19:54
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An easier way of checking it would be to download PC Wizard 2007 You can see just about every information on your PC, including your mainboard, and which ports you have. You can get it here:
http://www.cpuid.com/pcwizard.php

It's free of course.

oh, and you can run benchmark tests in it too.

Hope that's going to help you a bit

Viberwars - top-down shooter game
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UnderLord
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 20:26
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That PC wizard is a nice little program will come in handy =)

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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Julius Caesar
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 20:27
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thanks!

I will go straight to my other PC, and use away!!!


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The Nerd
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 20:45
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hehe. Yeah, it is a very nice program Very much information can be viewed from it.

Viberwars - top-down shooter game
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Julius Caesar
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 20:59
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It is FANTASTIC! I now know exactly everything I needed to know! Thanks!

I have 2 PCI slots and my current "built in chipset" supports practically nothing, so there is no surprise that shaders don't work!

Thanks Nerd!


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The Nerd
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Posted: 29th Apr 2007 21:05
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hehe, no problem!

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GatorHex
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 01:29 Edited at: 30th Apr 2007 01:34
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I was talking about the colour of the slots you plug your card into.

If you have a single brown slot it sound like you may have AGP

Probably the best AGP card that doesn't require PSU power is the 6200

If you get a more pwerful AGP like the 6700 you will have to connect the power supply to the card and check your PSU has enough watts to feed it. It can be a bit of headache.

Even though 5900/5950 ultras can be picked up for around £35 on ebay now, you might want to stear clear of the 5xxx range as you will start to run into games that require shader 3 now. But if you don't mind pixel shader 2 and you don't mind putting in a power molex connector they do provide a lot of bang for the buck!

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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GatorHex
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Posted: 30th Apr 2007 03:11 Edited at: 30th Apr 2007 03:12
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Just thought, could you not post a digital photo of you PC motherboard on the forum then we can better advise?

It's rare to have a PCI only motherboard unless it's one of those micro atx mini PC things.

http://www.KumKie.com http://bulldog.servegame.com
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Julius Caesar
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 19:48 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2007 19:48
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Hi again all... I have now discovered exactly what I have. I have 2 PCI slots (light grey/white) and 1 PCI-E 1x slot (small and black).

I have spoken to a few people and they don't think I'll find a card that wil fit the PCI-E slot, and they say PCI is slow...

I was just wondering what you guys think... Is it worth getting a GeForce FX 5500 PCI card? Or perhaps another model? The main reason I am upgrading is so I can run DarkShader, which I purchased but it doesn't work with my onboard chipset.

So... what card would you reccomend? I now have £85, but my new saturday job gives me £20 a week, so I will quickly be able to afford a better card if one of you guys suggests it.

Another quick (probably stupid) question... can I buy anything to convert my PCI slots to PCI-E 16x or my 1x slot into a 16x slot? No? Thanks anyway lol!

Thanks!

EDIT: Typo

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Raven
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 20:21
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I would hazard a guess that you are running an Intel Pentium 4/D, and that the graphics card called Xpress 200.

This card is actually an on-board Radeon X300, which has full support for Shader 1.1, 1.4 and 2.0. It's not too shabby performance wise either.

If this is the case then you will have a PCI-E x16 slot, and if it's the Xpress 230 then you will also have an AGP 8x right next to it.

For £70, I would recommend purchasing this:
http://www.saverstore.com/productinfo/Product.aspx?catalog_name=Savastore&product_id=20013712&rstrat=12868

Radeon X1600 Pro PCI-E 16x 256MB £68
If you extended your budget then I would HIGHLY recommend either:

http://www.saverstore.com/productinfo/Product.aspx?catalog_name=Savastore&product_id=20009687&rstrat=12868

Radeon X1950 XTX PCI-E 16x HD-Ready (HDMI + HD-Component) Vivo 512MB £120

Personally I'd recommend waiting a month or so until the Radeon HD-Series is fully lunched. As the 2300 and 2600 Series are all HD-Ready, plus support DirectX10.

Still waiting for places to provide GeForce 8300/8600. Honestly it's a pain waiting for these budget cards.

An added bonus of that X1950 XTX is you'll be safe in the knowledge that anything you or your friends can play looking gorgeous on the 360 at 720p will also be true for this card. As it's practically identical, so you can have basically identical graphics settings to those on the console and expect the same performance.

It has no issues playing ANYTHING currently available, at whatever settings you choose. This card is the same price mark as the GeForce 8600, so much better value for money imo

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Julius Caesar
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 20:38 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2007 20:42
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Thanks Raven, but I hate to say I do not have a PCI Express slot, or an AGP slot. I have just had my uncle (a bit of a hardware expert) look at my PC and he said that I had 2 PCI slots (he showed them to me) and one PCI-E x1 slot (he showed that to me too).

We had a good look and could not find any other useful slots. I wish I did have a PCI-E x16 slot, but I know I haven't.

My onboard one is an Express Chipset, 9125GL or something similar. From what I hear, Dell PCs are notorious for being hard to upgrade, this is why I really do appreciate all of your help.

Also, if I was to have the card you suggested, I would assume that I could run DarkShader, as the rest of my PC specs are pretty good:
2Gb RAM
3.2 Ghz Processor
etc. etc.

I have the latest DirectX and so I figured it is the graphics card that is holding me back. Thanks for your help, but I know I need to get a PCI card. Also, I am not big on playing PC games, I only really play Rome: Total War, and that isn't very often. So I am not too bothered about speed. I just want it to work lol

Thanks!

EDIT: Typo and too many ! marks!!!

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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 21:02
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With your budget, and considering the games you play, I recommend the ATI X1300, its about $130, has 256mb of memory, and has shader v3.0. It has a PCI and a PCI-E version, and was a 2006. Its fully Vista Capable, so if you upgrade, you can keep the card.

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

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Julius Caesar
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 21:46 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2007 21:52
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Thanks Zaibatsu, I will take a look into that. The only other one I have really seen is that GeForce 500 it has 128Mb Memory and Shader Model 2.0 support.

Just a quick question, where did you find the PCI version?

Thanks!

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Julius Caesar
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Posted: 8th Jul 2007 14:29
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It's done! I couldn't find the ATI one you mentioned Zaibatsu, so I went for the NVidia GeForce 6200.

It has shader model 3.0 support, it supports Vista and has 128 Mb memory. I got it for just £50 which I thought was a great deal. Dabs.com seemed a dam good website!

Thanks for all your help everyone!

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