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Geek Culture / Of Orcs and Tauren

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Rilejarom
User Banned
Posted: 9th May 2007 22:30 Edited at: 19th May 2007 02:31
Hey guys, if you like World of Warcraft then you must visit this site of mine. It's a little cheezy maybe but this site is going to show you some elements of my book I'm working on. Don't steal this either for your own profit because if you do... well lets no even go there shall we? Visit below and tell me if you think this book has some potential. And to make this clear, this is just my imagination at work.

Yes Taurens, Orcs, Dwarfs, and Elves are in W.O.W but these races are not just one persons. The "Alignment" is is in no way trying to rip off W.O.W "Allaince" group. Plus the "Alignment" is made up of Orcs and Tauren.

LINK HERE: Link Destroyed.

Read later post.[i]

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Dr Manette
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Posted: 10th May 2007 00:23
I would suggest not putting your unpublished book idea on the net if you are worried about people stealing it. Also, I didn't find it irremediably imaginative or original; two things publishers and readers will look for in a fantasy book. But hey, I'm not a big fan of these kinds of books.

RUCCUS
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Posted: 10th May 2007 02:48
Oh dear... people are making WoW books :/

Bizar Guy
19
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Posted: 10th May 2007 02:49 Edited at: 10th May 2007 02:52
I don't play world of warcraft (though I read the history), but... the people seem way too powerful. The struggles (both physical and mental) involved will probably end up being too far from human ability to be interesting, and so I just can't see myself investing a lot of emotion in this type of book. The idea is generic and at least the motivations you've revealed are kind of lame. I mean, the bad guys life ambition is to be immortal? Isn't that kind of redundant? If there's a bigger story underneath this that gets revealed, that would be interesting, but it seems you pretty much laid out what the book is all about and now all that's left is what's going to happen in the middle.

Perhaps you've just described it poorly, but I really don't think this will catch a whole lot of interest. I'm not sure if you were hoping for a lot of praise, but ideas about world and story creation are a daily thing here. I recommend checking out the game design theory board. The only difference there is that currently generic stories are acceptable game premises.

I also don't understand why you want everyone to know that this is a book based off wow if you don't plan to take ideas from wow.


And really, basing a book off an mmo (even one with as awesome a world history as wow, which I read the entire hunk of) is a bad idea. After all, wow itself is based off the story they wrote, so you're getting the idea 3rd hand mixed in with all the generic nuisances of the typical fantasy rpg.



I'm not trying to put you down, but I do think you could do a lot better if you dumped the wow premise.

Shadow heart
17
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Posted: 10th May 2007 04:02
you just might wanna update the website. Also your gonna wanna publish the book and not make it free if you are like dr. manette said ppl can steal it. Make so people can purchase it via e-book or copyright it or something... . i'm not sure how it exactly works.

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Dr Manette
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Posted: 10th May 2007 04:25
Also, how long have you been writing this? I ask only because if you came up with this idea a week ago, then I wouldn't assume you'll get it published.

From my personal experience in write a book (I myself have been writing a fantasy book for five years, hoping to be published), it takes time, research, and a lot of thought and planning. Actually, it's a lot like a video game. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was WoW.

If you seriously want to pursue writing, I suggest you first get an original idea and then build off it. Believe me, after awhile the ideas and characters and threads really begin to come into their own once you really work at it.

Shadow heart
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Posted: 10th May 2007 05:29 Edited at: 10th May 2007 05:30
check out http://www2.xlibris.com/
It's kind of exspensive but it costs some cash for yorub ook to be published.?

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 10th May 2007 05:53
Getting your book published by a vanity press is a foolish undertaking. It's a glorified printing service, nothing more. If you have to pay for your book to be published then it's a scam.

What's the best that can come of a vanity press? You guilt your family into buying a copy and you give some away to your friends?


Come see the WIP!
Shadow heart
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Posted: 10th May 2007 07:15
xlibris is just one for independent writers i think. but getting your book published any where is gonna be expensive.

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Dazzag
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Posted: 10th May 2007 09:19
Personally I think you need to get more organised. I mean the first presentation to the outside world of your idea and it's full of spelling mistakes and bad grammar. Fair enough in this forum, but not for someone planning on making a book. Use a spell checker mate. And not to be picky, but it's one thing to cock up the spelling of an English word, but it is another to do it to your own made up names. Look through the site and you will find several examples of the same names being spelt differently on different pages.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Rilejarom
User Banned
Posted: 10th May 2007 22:22
NEWS:
I have trashed the site. And to those who say my plot may be "redundant" then you haven't seen my 2nd main plot. Of coarse you most likely wont until you read my book but all I can say is that you should never trust someone as ruthless as you. Also I said "IMMORTALITY" not invicibility. That means he can still be slain like a small puppy. In actuallity the plot i posted was probably not the main plot at all. I'm currently working on Chapter 4 and I've already foreshadowed future events that will probably happen 10 chapters later.
Also, I did get the idea from W.O.W but the influences of FABLE, LORD OF THE RING, and a few friends gave me the idea for the whole plot. Once again, what you may have read when the site was "working" was not the whole layout of the story. I will from now on inform you here about my book. Also, you can give suggestions for minor events in the book if you like.
Rile

Stupid is not a sickness but you make it look like one.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th May 2007 22:28
I wouldn't be discouraged about writing, practice on some website like fictionpress or fanfiction and then start what ever novel you want...okay I wouldn't write a WOW one, but you could write a fantasy novel with similar themed characters, it's the sort of thing some people like. (Not me included, I go to other genres) I mean I use fiction press to showcase my work, but I'm actually going to be taken all of my stuff down, just in case I wanna publish it, which I probably will, my Mum is already working on illustrations for a book of poems I've half written, as it's her job

Look behind you a threeheaded monkey!
Dr Manette
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Posted: 11th May 2007 02:40
Hey, that's awesome Seppuku!

@Rile
Try not to take everyone's opinions personally, we all gave constructive criticism and you can expect a lot more of it if you try and publisher. If you get published, great for you; this just didn't appeal to me.

Rilejarom
User Banned
Posted: 11th May 2007 03:06 Edited at: 11th May 2007 03:10
It's not about World Of Warcraft though. It's somewhat like it. It has no refrences to W.O.W in it. Plus I'm not taking the advice too personal, I just want to point some things out. Even before W.O.W I had dreamed about writting a "fantasy book." W.O.W just gave me ideas much as many other games and books did. I don't even play W.O.W anymore. I mostly play my Xbox 360 wen I'm not writting my book. If you feel the need to critisize then do so. I'm welcome to it.

Stupid is not a sickness but you make it look like one.
Dazzag
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Posted: 12th May 2007 00:44 Edited at: 12th May 2007 00:44
Quote: "It's not about World Of Warcraft though. It's somewhat like it. It has no refrences to W.O.W in it"
Out of interest, I know that Orcs, Dwarves, Elves etc come from many fantasy books, but where exactly do Taurens come from?

Quote: "If you feel the need to critisize"
I thought that was the whole point? Otherwise why else put your plot outlines on here?

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th May 2007 01:07
Taurens? I'm not much of the D&D style RPG geek here, so I'm guessing but aren't they the minotaur like creatures, like in the opening video of Neverwinter Nights?

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The Nerd
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Posted: 12th May 2007 02:21 Edited at: 12th May 2007 02:24
Taurens can also be found in WoW:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tauren

Quite close Seppuku Arts hehe.

But I don't know elsewhere they've might come from. I guess a Tauren is just a WoW version of a minotaur. The males look a bit like cows too. Hehe.

Dazzag
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Posted: 12th May 2007 09:43
Quote: "Taurens can also be found in WoW"
Yeah, that was my point. Look it up and Taurens *only* exist in WoW. They created them. Not exactly "no references to WoW".

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
bitJericho
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Posted: 12th May 2007 17:46 Edited at: 12th May 2007 17:52
Quote: "xlibris is just one for independent writers i think. but getting your book published any where is gonna be expensive."


Uh, no it isn't... It won't cost you anything. In fact, they should *pay* you to publish your book! If you're paying to publish your book, then you're getting ripped off, you haven't found the right publisher, or your book sucks.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th May 2007 20:23
Well there may be certain things you pay for at the start (certain fees, like to pay the guy to sit and read you book, I dunno, perhaps there are publishers like that) but publishers are supposed to pay you everytime they sell your book and their pay comes from their share.

Look behind you a threeheaded monkey!
bitJericho
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Posted: 12th May 2007 20:59 Edited at: 12th May 2007 21:07
Quote: "Well there may be certain things you pay for at the start (certain fees, like to pay the guy to sit and read you book, I dunno, perhaps there are publishers like that) but publishers are supposed to pay you everytime they sell your book and their pay comes from their share."


Wrong, the publisher pays *all* expenses for publishing your book. They will pay you an advance, let's say for example $5,000 (and they won't take away from this payment for "expenses" either) to publish your book. Then you start to earn royalties, but you won't get paid again until your royalties are greater than the $5k advance they dropped on you. Some authors never earn more than their original payment.

But if your book sells, then eventually you'll get another royalty check

So again, if you're paying to publish your book, you're not getting a good deal whatsoever. To top that all off, you should never pay up front for an agent either, your agent gets paid when you get paid, takes it right out of your royalty earnings.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20586

Check it out^^

Rilejarom
User Banned
Posted: 17th May 2007 22:18 Edited at: 17th May 2007 22:19
Okay well Taurens are from W.O.W but doesn't that sound better than minotaur? I'm not done so I could just change it to Minotaur. Wouldn't really change anything.
I'm on chapter 6 right now and it's at a cease fire. The plot really depends here and the real plot is slowly getting revealed.

Plus Taurnes are smarter than Minotaur and the Taurens are suppost to be smart in my book. No one ( even the orcs ) are dirt stupid.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 17th May 2007 22:33 Edited at: 17th May 2007 22:34
I was saying there 'may' be as to explain why the person though what they thought, but if no publishers actually do, then fair play, I wouldn't know as I haven't looked up that many publishers as of yet

'Minotaur' would be better, I'm not a geek in that kind of fantasy would, so I don't know any alternatives or what actually makes a good book of that genre. But everybody knows Minotaur, nobody can tell you off, it's not as if the Greek guy that came up with the mythical creature will rise from the grave to claim copyright although he's been dead way past the 50 year mark for copyright

I'll start reading your work and see if I can offer some crit too, as I'm sure this is the reason for making this thread, I'd best fulfill it

[edit]
Nice forum link Jerico, I've been looking for something writer related

Look behind you a threeheaded monkey!
Dazzag
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Posted: 17th May 2007 22:36
Quote: "Okay well Taurens are from W.O.W but doesn't that sound better than minotaur?"
Thats just your opinion.

All I'm saying is that your original quote of "I did not steal anything from W.O.W" just isn't true considering you lifted the name and characteristics of an entire race that was created within the WOW world and you even put into the title of your novel. It's not like elves or dwarves, that originated in whatever forgotten stories years ago and are now household fictional races that appear in loads of different stories.

Quote: "Plus Taurnes are smarter than Minotaur and the Taurens are suppost to be smart in my book"
O.K..... Your point being?.... (note how you are again mispelling your own characters and races). Plus how many fantasy books have you read? I've read a few with smart Minotaurs in the past.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Rilejarom
User Banned
Posted: 18th May 2007 03:39 Edited at: 18th May 2007 05:34
It was a typo and everyone does it. Plus you don't need to get mad at me and I get it. I didn't exactly think that the Tauren originated from WOW. I thought I read a book were there was 'tauren' written in it. I'm prob. wrong but forgive me for making a mistake! Crusify me why don't you? Plus I've read many fantasy books. I can't recall reading one with a minotaur in it except for The Chronicles of Narnia ( gayiest series of books out there ) I'm going to rename the book and take your advice though Dazzag seeing you're telling me to change it in a 'beat around the bush' way. It is now OF ORCS AND MINOTAUR From now on if you want inside info of my book then email me at rdali3n@yahoo.com

Quote: "O.K..... Your point being?...."


I'm not exactly sure Dazzag. I just want to write my book man. Lay off some. And with all you Brits and whatever I didn't so much expect a lot of people who love this stuff but I do and I just wanted to write a actiony book. (Which this book is very violent)



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Benjamin
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Posted: 18th May 2007 03:50
Underlined text looks awful.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
Multisync V1 (DBP/DBCe)
Dr Manette
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Posted: 18th May 2007 05:22
Hey, there's no need to get angry. Honestly, you can write your book and do whatever you like with it. But if you want to publish, then you've got to comply with some things. Names, plot, threads of your story all become increasingly important as you progress. So good luck, and have fun writing.

Rilejarom
User Banned
Posted: 18th May 2007 05:39 Edited at: 18th May 2007 22:08
Quote: " Underlined text looks awful."


I was unaware that it was underlined. FIXED*

Hey, there's no need to get angry.

Well there kind of is. Dazzag isn't much of the understanding type and he is sitting here lashing at me with more or smart remarks than critisizm. I wasn't mad but now I am. all you people keep saying I'm angry but I wasn't.

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Steve J
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Posted: 18th May 2007 05:46
Quote: "I wasn't mad but now I am"


and then...
Quote: "all you people keep saying I'm angry but I'm not."


Errr contradiction...

Actually Dazzag has seemed very understanding imo.

pleading and needing and bleeding and breeding and feeding exceeding..where is everybody? trying and lying defying denying crying and dying..where is everybody?
Dazzag
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Posted: 18th May 2007 09:12
Heh, why on earth would I be angry? I couldn't really give a monkeys. Call your book whatever you want; I really couldn't care less. All I was doing was pointing out a few things.

Typos? Yes everyone does. But if you are putting your ideas and design for a novel for everyone to view then basically asking for people to judge it then try and get the spelling correct. At least of your own made up names. I mean c'mon.

And don't get into a strop when you get a little criticism. I mean why did you post here? Did you expect nothing but praise and adoration? No need to lash out at people trying to help you out.

Quote: "And with all you Brits and whatever I didn't so much expect a lot of people who love this stuff"
Eh? Either that is a racist comment or I don't know what the hell you are on about. You couldn't mean WOW (cos it has nothing to do with WOW as you said, although I'm pretty sure it's available in the UK....) and that only leaves fantasy books. Yep we seriously don't read english language books in the UK Plus we don't know where you come from considering your location is "open your closet". Why won't you come out of your closet? Yuck yuck, sorry, couldn't resist

Quote: "I can't recall reading one with a minotaur in it except for The Chronicles of Narnia"
Off the top of my head Dragonlance had a minotaur commander that was a pretty clever soldier.

Now suck it up and give us some chapters, not just a scetchy plot outline and a couple of characters that could be bunged together in 5 minutes. You want some honest comments and suggestions then give us something real. At least find out now what everyone thinks so you can fix one or two things early on.

As for criticism then get used to it now. Because no matter how good you may be (which we have no knowledge of without the chapters) then you will get at least what we gave you here from a publisher.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
SpyDaniel
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Posted: 18th May 2007 17:54
How long have you been writing this book for Rilejarom? Because if its only been a week or so and you are already on chapter 6, then I don't think the book will be very interesting. You need to spend months getting your plots worked out and such.

I can already tell from this thread, that even though you say it has nothing to do with WOW, it has, you have probably stolen ideas from it and just changed some aspects. But I can tell you will just complain that you haven't and that all your content is 100% original.
Rilejarom
User Banned
Posted: 18th May 2007 22:21 Edited at: 18th May 2007 22:22
Okay higgins that was just lashing. Not critisizm. also I wasn't trying to be racial and I men I "was not angry" but now you've mad me. Also I've been working on this for almost two years. It's not that boring either or so says the people I've shown chapter to. They say it is actually quite interesting.

Here is an exept from a chapter.

" Vulen grinded his teeth and charged at him. Hurling his warhammer, he crushed the orcs hand against the marble pilliar.
The orc sqiurmed in pain while Vulen took the handle of his hammer and started to crush it's windpipe. Vulen took his free fist and started pummeling away at his face. elder Caydiem began to speak but silenced when Vulen dealt a hard blow, knocking the orc out.
He revived his prey only to break it's feet. The orc slid to the floor and lay twitching in a fedal position as Vulen rared back one more time to come down breaking all the orcs ribs."


Tell me what you think.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th May 2007 22:52
Quote: "I can't recall reading one with a minotaur in it except for The Chronicles of Narnia ( gayiest series of books out there ) "


Personally I resent that comment (Narnia offers a good sense of creativity and plays with the imagination of the child reading it, for that amongst other reasons makes them great books, they're not aimed to us as an audience )...but each to his own opinion.

HERE is my crit on that extract dude, please read and hope it helps you

I think you might need to build on imagery there, perhaps shorter sentences, pace it up a bit (if you're pacing it a bit, perhaps more descriptions (back to the imagery point) will do, what is the orc doing, what is the impact on the orc? Is there blood everywhere? How instence is the pain of the orc? Use as much of an active voice as possible, perhaps reduce the number of syllables in the words, again for the pace. (Using other words, of course) And use a quite intense tone, so as the person is reading it they feel tense within the fight, to do this perhaps give the orc more of a fighting chance, so the reader doesn't know his going to end, perhaps the fight could work like a story itself, it has a beginning (They start the fight) a middle (The fight goes on, they're fairly matched, it is quite intense between them) a climax and a solution (A problem arises, the Minotaur is losing severely, getting his butt kicked left right and center and then manages to pick up some energy and goes psycho on the Orc) And then End (The Orc is dead, Minotaur stands as the winner)

Also, the reviving thing, I'd remove that, it seems quite unecessary and perhaps unrealistic (Although a fantasy story, but I mean it's unrealistic that the minotaur would kill him then revived him to kill him/severely injured him in this situation...perhaps if it were a Jack Bauer situation and the Orc was being tortured for information and needs to live to tell them)

Look behind you a threeheaded monkey!
Dazzag
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Posted: 18th May 2007 23:26
Quote: "It's not that boring either or so says the people I've shown chapter to"
That is a classic sentence. I mean really...

As for the story text, you just haven't given enough. I mean a small paragraph? Bit hard to extract where you are going with story design, character development etc etc. Try not to repeat the same words in a paragraph though. For example don't have him crushing things twice. Smash them the 2nd time or whatever. Also reads a little "Then he hit him in the head, before chopping his ears off. Then he pulled his eyes out. While breaking his arms with his powerful jaws". Step 1. Step 2. Step 3. If you see what I mean. Sorry about the rubbish explanation. I skipped most of my creative writing classes in Uni (birds and booze is a hard combination, even for a young writer) so that probably explains it. But I have a *lot* of books so I think I have a good idea about what gels and what doesn't.

Quote: "He revived his prey only to break it's feet"
Dude, that is practically straight out of my avatar's canon. Go here http://www.garthmarenghi.com/ to enjoy the genius that saved horror in the 80's.

And stop getting angry. Trust me, no one else here is. Just browsing the general board. I would guess most people here are trying to give what they think is constructive advice. Why wouldn't they? If you produce a great work of fiction, then brilliant, we all win (I have about 700 books; I love this stuff). If not then so be it. On with the next thread.

Oh, and please get a spelling and grammar checker. I'm not bothered about posts here (see my sig) but put your book and website through it. Just makes things look that bit more polished.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Rilejarom
User Banned
Posted: 19th May 2007 02:31 Edited at: 19th May 2007 02:34
Quote: "Try not to repeat the same words in a paragraph though. For example don't have him crushing things twice."


Understood. This part is rather new and hasn't been revised yet.


Quote: "The fight goes on, they're fairly matched, it is quite intense between them"


You would think that it would go this way but actually it's ORC v.s ORC and it's a all hands down outmatch that can only go one way. This is a medium sized event that doesn't really much effect the whole plot outlook but its purpose is to show how savage Vulen is. I mean to kill your own race...... dude, that's crazy. Before this happens Vulen is telling all about his shady past and then this orc has to the nerve to call him what we would refure to today as "a wuss." Vulen then rebukes by killing him.

Quote: "Use as much of an active voice as possible, perhaps reduce the number of syllables in the words, again for the pace. "


I revise everything, so when I do I usually change the text. I plan to cut unwanted parts and throw more gore into it.

Like for instence, this dude in the first chapter gets a grappling hook stuck in his neck. The attacker jerks the rope and rips his juggler in half and blood gushes everywhere.

And about the reviving part, you're prob. right.

Rile

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Dazzag
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Posted: 19th May 2007 11:18
Quote: "And about the reviving part, you're prob. right."
I didn't think there was anything wrong with the reviving part, but it came and went a bit quick. Infact I thought the whole paragraph was a bit quick. For me it could have done with a bit more padding. You know, circling each other for a bit, perhaps something about what they are thinking (if that is how you are writing it, if not then forget it) etc. On the other hand if it is part of a big battle and this fight is a small insignificant part of the whole then probably doesn't need to be much more drawn out. If it is the epic finale between two fleshed out characters then deffo draw it out a bit.

Go on, give us a whole chapter. Will be easier to see how it all gels together.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
Rilejarom
User Banned
Posted: 19th May 2007 18:22
Well I will later but I have to go somewhere now and wont be back for maybe an hour or two.

Rile

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