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Geek Culture / Define life

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 14th May 2007 15:07
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I just thought this was an interesting question to bring up. Nothing to do with religion or anything, so no need for locking (unless a mod feels they need to), so please dont verge into that heh.

The question is, how would you define life? How would you know you have seen life if you find it on another planet? Take out plants for instance. They are living, but what exactly makes them living? Because they grow? Mountains grow. The planet itself could probably thought of as a massive brain of sorts, but we dont consider that life..

Just thought it was an important question. I don't think everything living should mean it's carbon based.

What are your opinions? (Remember, try to keep this from getting locked)

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Kentaree
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Posted: 14th May 2007 15:14 Edited at: 14th May 2007 15:18
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I think anything that has some sort of consciousness at some stage of its lifetime, and something that can die. Plants are conscious to light etc. Can't really think of anything else apart from that

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dark coder
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Posted: 14th May 2007 15:26
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Quote: "Define life"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/life

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geecee3
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Posted: 14th May 2007 15:39
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I see life as the by-product of physical and organic chemical complexity, An inevitability in the grand scheme of a universe tending toward entropy. where conditions are right, you'll find life.
Where do you draw the line between organic chemical interactions and life as we percieve it? at what point does a self contained system of chemical reactions and interactions become self sustaining and able to 'feed' off other organic compounds creating the basis for a food chain and ecosystem? i wish i knew, nobel prizes would abound.

Ohd Chinese Ploverb say : Wise Eskimo, not eat yerrow snow.
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aluseus GOD
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Posted: 14th May 2007 15:59
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life? programming is life foo!

Your signature has been deleted by a moderator because this joke is getting old.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 14th May 2007 18:12
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forty-two


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jrowe
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Posted: 14th May 2007 18:28 Edited at: 14th May 2007 18:28
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Define Life: MRS NERG.

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Diggsey
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Posted: 14th May 2007 19:55
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Fire moves, reproduces, senses (reacts to wind etc.) It consumes things, leaves burnt stuff behind, reproduces and grows


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Phaelax
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Posted: 14th May 2007 21:03
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You can't say fire senses because it reacts with the wind. That's just the reaction of a force being applied to it. It's like saying a ball can sense gravity because it falls when you drop it. Everything else though sounds alright.


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Diggsey
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Posted: 14th May 2007 21:24 Edited at: 14th May 2007 21:25
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So what about flowers then They don't 'sense' the light, they react to it, which is just what fire does

edit:
There are also certain bacteria which don't 'sense' anything, they just reproduce all the time!


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 14th May 2007 21:48
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Some would argue that the Earth is alive and that mountains are a part of that life, that would be delving into ideas of Gaia (And no, Gaia isn't something Squaresoft made up for Final Fantasy )

But exactly what is life? I'd say it's the energy forcing our bodies to be animate, forcing our minds to work, some say life is when the soul is embodied, others don't believe in the soul (mwahaha *devil horns* "I have now soul!") I'm pretty agnostic here with these thoughts, because talking about life includes thoughts on the soul. These thoughts aren't empirical (Can't be proven on a level with the senses) so really one has to think about what really is life? Are we just advanced motored beings and nothing else, an organic robot? Or is there something else? My favourite thought is that the only way we know we exist is the fact we think and that for all we know the rest of reality may not exist (which I half agree...to the extent we only see a part of reality), it may be a deception, but that's looking into our good friend Rene "I think therefore I am" Descartes.

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hessiess
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Posted: 14th May 2007 22:10
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the combination of the right stuff in the right place at the right time and at the right tempriture

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Phaelax
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Posted: 15th May 2007 01:40
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Quote: "And no, Gaia isn't something Squaresoft made up for Final Fantasy"

That's right! It's that lady on Captain Planet!


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jrowe
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Posted: 15th May 2007 02:46 Edited at: 15th May 2007 02:46
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Quote: "So what about flowers then They don't 'sense' the light, they react to it, which is just what fire does

edit:
There are also certain bacteria which don't 'sense' anything, they just reproduce all the time!"


No, a plant does sense light, you can actually do experiments to find where the phototrophic sensors are on a growing shoot. The hormones they produce (certain auxins) prevent cell elongation in areas where light isn't present effectively making the plant shoot grow/bend into the light.

In the case of the bacteria, I think you're thinking of viruses, which are not classed as alive (it's basically a piece of DNA wrapped in protein). A bacteria has numerous sensory mechanisms. E.g. Intrinsic channel proteins in their cell membranes that only allow through certain molecules (which also open/close depending on the relative concentrations in and outside of the cell).


WOO!!! GO MRS NERG!!!

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DrewG
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Posted: 15th May 2007 03:10
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
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Oneka
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Posted: 15th May 2007 21:27
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But if we are made of non-living things...wouldnt that make us non-living things?


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Oh yeah and just so you know its Oh-nek-a not One-ka!
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 15th May 2007 22:45 Edited at: 15th May 2007 22:49
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Quote: "But if we are made of non-living things...wouldnt that make us non-living things?"

No.

Anyway, saying that fire is alive is like saying the sun is alive. It isn't. Fire doesn't even reproduce, it just spreads as an indistinguishable unit. It definitely doesn't have any type of sense.

Quote: "the combination of the right stuff in the right place at the right time and at the right tempriture"

That isn't correct. If it were that simple, we'd be able to create life in a laboratory. We're definitely missing a piece of the puzzle, and I hope we never find it.

Now, go shoot some DNA at each other to continue living.


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Zotoaster
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Posted: 15th May 2007 22:50
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Well, think about the Earth. It takes in sublight, grows things, has weather, has reactions to certain things, even has moving parts. What makes this un-living?

I think this is an important question, because for all we know, we have made living robots (which I believe we have), they may just not be as smart as us, but hey, neither is a tree.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 15th May 2007 22:54 Edited at: 15th May 2007 23:01
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The earth doesn't grow. If the earth is alive, then a Chia Pet is alive.

Unless you can prove that the moon is the Earth's baby. Then we might be on to something.

Robots aren't alive. They just aren't, no matter how you argue the semantics. And trees don't have a nervous system. They aren't silently writing tearful poetry while we chop down their neighbors.


The earth is dead just like my career fool!




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Zotoaster
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Posted: 15th May 2007 23:12
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Are you saying tree's aren't alive?

I was just using the Earth as an example by the way.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 15th May 2007 23:17
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Trees certainly are alive. However, you were comparing the intelligence of trees to robots, thereby associating the tree's life to the robot. That is a logical fallacy, and a very common one in an argument like this.


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Zotoaster
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Posted: 15th May 2007 23:27
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Nonono, not comparing intelligence. All I am saying that a robot can take some sorts of input, and then make something of them. Even if they are those little ones that whiz on the ground and avoid things, they still have senses, literarly.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 16th May 2007 00:14
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Life is..

nuff said

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=73324&b=8
My RPG WIP, check it out
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 17th May 2007 13:22
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I guess it was just like "Hey, there's some water, and some other substance, I wonder what happens when they mix.. Oh! A chemical reaction! Now it looks like a little ball with a weird tail and a membrane! I wonder what happens if sunlight gets on it.. Oh look! It turns heat energy into kinetic and it's tail is moving around! I wonder what happens if it swims into a little bit of edable stuff and turns that into energy by disolving it inside it's weird liquid stuff... Oh look! It grew a weird antenna out it's head"

yeah.. I rule

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Raven
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Posted: 17th May 2007 15:23
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If it can be cease to function normally and not naturally return to a normal functioning state, then it's alive.

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Jeku
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Posted: 17th May 2007 19:20
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Quote: "I guess it was just like "Hey, there's some water, and some other substance, I wonder what happens when they mix.. Oh! A chemical reaction! Now it looks like a little ball with a weird tail and a membrane!"


Uhh, no. Do you realize the odds of that happening? It's higher than the mathematical point of probability.

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 17th May 2007 19:24
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Well I don't mean exactly that, or that fast, but umm.. that must be sorta similar to what actually happened right?

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xplosys
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Posted: 17th May 2007 20:00
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Life sucks.... and then you die.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

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Jeku
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Posted: 17th May 2007 22:09
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Quote: "that must be sorta similar to what actually happened right?"


I guess that depends entirely on who you ask

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 17th May 2007 23:56
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"Life is a mystery, don't waste your time trying to figure it out"


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 18th May 2007 01:26 Edited at: 18th May 2007 01:29
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Life is like a cake... A really beautiful cake... with lots of frosting, and those little flowers and decorations... But when you bite into it, you find the "cake" (not the tasty frosting and stuff) is made of dog crap! That's how life is sometimes...

Bittersweet maybe? I dunno what dog crap tastes like (or any crap for that matter)... maybe bitter is too good a word for it.

I have no signature...
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BMacZero
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Posted: 19th May 2007 03:44
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Chia pets are to alive! They congregate on my front porch every weekend.

(Really, what do you can the green stuff that grows out of its head? Grass?)


"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire!" —Jaya Ballard, task mage
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 19th May 2007 20:44 Edited at: 19th May 2007 20:47
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Quote: "forty-two"

No no, that's too general... 42 is the meaning of life, the universe, and everything . Don't forget your towel.

Choose life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a "really" big television, Choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players, and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol and dental insurance. Choose fixed- interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisure wear and matching luggage. Choose a three piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing you last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, messed up brats you have spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life: I chose something else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who need reasons when you've got game development?


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
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UnderLord
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Posted: 20th May 2007 21:48
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*Moves eyes side to side*

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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Oneka
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Posted: 23rd May 2007 21:53
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So if I make a robot that can build more of themselves, and runs off of peanutbutter, does that mean it is alive?


Making better games everday!
Oh yeah and just so you know its Oh-nek-a not One-ka!
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David R
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Posted: 23rd May 2007 21:54
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Quote: "Define life"


#define Life


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UnderLord
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Posted: 24th May 2007 00:03
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Bacteria is 'alive' as well as the common cold....so....whats your point again?

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
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