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Geek Culture / ATI or Nvidia graphics cards

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Virtual X
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Posted: 31st May 2007 18:34
I'm having a bit of a dilemma at the moment, I need a new graphics card but unsure what to get ATI or NVIDIA card, what's your experience with either, any info is appreciated!

I've been looking at the Connect3D ATI Radeon X1950 XT
Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Posted: 31st May 2007 19:04
search the forum, this was debated recently. But I would always go Nvidia.


Raven
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Posted: 31st May 2007 19:06
I'd suggest if you go ATi, then get Sapphire or ATi brand. They seem to have the best compatibility with the official drivers, also tend to perform much better than the 3rd parties.

This said, if I hadn't had the urge to buy a HD 2800 XT from Sapphire directly; probably be waiting for the HD 2600 Pro to come out right now.

Performance wise, NVIDIA is owning with quite a margin; even with the new HD-Series just hitting the stores NVIDIA's last two generations have had much more power behind them. They're more stable, and generally better drivers.

I switched to ATI when the X1K-Series was released, now using them fairly exclusively. This is more down to work demands than much else though. I've recently fallen out of favour with NVIDIA, because of a simple device ... Playstation 3. What possibly makes it worse is NVIDIA actually had a deal with Microsoft that they would be the only manufacturer allowed a DirectX10 card for 3months after Vista release, and they were the ones who decided on the Shader 4.0 specification. ATi now is starting to feel like the underdog in all of this, and their prices are also far more competitive.

GeForce 8800 GTS - £250 or Radeon HD 2800 XT - £210
Although sure the GTS boasts 384MB DDR2, tbh that's just ridiculously stupid amounts of video ram; and with DirectX9.0c or DirectX10 is totally wasted given you can now scale back what the graphics card uses entirely down to requireing on the framebuffer. This means at most 1080i 8xAA 16xAF, which requires roughly 32MB Frame Buffer.

The rest of the 3d stuff can be streamed via the CPU or RAM using the 512-bit Address Bus at 16x(Bus Speed)Mbit/second, which ends up being NO different to using the ram on the card itself. Honestly if they scaled back and forced developers for the PC to use the system ram like you would on a console, then it would slash the card prices given most of the production costs are memory!!

Hell that's why TurboCache and Hypermemory work they way they do, only rather than being developers supporting this method; ATI do it via the driver software at a small performance loss. Goes to show we're just paying the odds for something that honestly isn't needed anymore. Wish ATI would push for their entire range to go with Hyper-Memory, and actively support developers to use their method of memory management. We do it on consoles already, why should we be so wasteful on the desktop simply because we don't have restrictions? It's those lack of restrictions that mean the Unreal 3 engine runs perfectly fine on a CPU capable of similar performance to a Core 2 Duo 1.0GHz and quarter the entire memory available on most current desktops... yet require top-end Windows sytems to run. Yes you loose some performance because of the Windows desktop running more background applications, but this is roughly 5% not 250%!!

In closing, go for whichever is best in your price range; or wait for the next generation cards to release their mid-range over the next month or so.

Person99
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 01:27 Edited at: 1st Jun 2007 01:28
Quote: "I need a new graphics card but unsure what to get ATI or NVIDIA card, what's your experience with either, any info is appreciated!"


It depends on if you have a small, yet powerful fan and a stool.

ATi Radeons are very powerful video cards, but have a serious problem with their fans not being good enough for the cards, causing overclocking and overheating. As long as you have a small, yet powerful fan sitting on a stool pointing at your video card, then I would go ATi.

If you do not have a small, yet powerful fan and a stool, get an ATi card anyway, the fan, and a stool tall enough to make the fan actually hit the card's fan with some power.

The problem is that Nvidia cards may be reliable, but the ATi equivalent, a small powerful fan, and a stool costs less, and preforms a lot better then the matching Nvidia card.


Also, Raven is right, it is best to wait a month THEN get the video card.

Who will die first?
That C++ Nerd
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 01:27
Well, ATI are very good for rendering. But ATI's can easily be overclocked. NVIDIA renders completely different from ATI, but this system makes overclocking easier to handle.
Raven
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 03:11
you guys are talking about overclocking as if it's a bad thing.
o|c'ing can be pushed much futher on ATI before they become unstable, but with NVIDIA you will see a bigger performance boost.

and sweet jesus i wish a side-effect of a crappy fan was overclocking!!
can't say i've ever had any issues with Radeon overheating more often than GeForce, in-fact in my experience it's quite the opposite. but then again both cards run perfectly find if you don't o|c then to their max possible like i often will. just can't help tinkering ^_^

realistically the choice does come more down to preference when we're talking about cards this powerful that current generation games aren't making the most of them. last time i couldn't decide between two graphics cards was before geforce was even released; a toss up between S3 ViRGE and PowerVR... S3 had a cute lass on the box so the choice was obvious

Person99
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 06:04
Quote: "you guys are talking about overclocking as if it's a bad thing."


My card is ALWAYS overclocking, and it does help, but without the fan, it goes too far and causes major overheating. (My last freeze was at 95 Celsius.)

Who will die first?
Silent Thunder
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 06:09
I would say NVIDIA.



Click on the picture to order your copy today!
Raven
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 10:40
Quote: "My card is ALWAYS overclocking, and it does help, but without the fan, it goes too far and causes major overheating. (My last freeze was at 95 Celsius.)"


If you're going to overclock hardware, don't be a cheapass and buy the budget fanless cards.
Personally when I o|c, what tends to happen is the cooling system is completely changed from standard stuff. Usually to a nice water-cooled copper-pipe system.. much better cooling, much better ability to push the hardware faster than should be sanely possible and a damn site quieter! When my xbox 360 went back to Microsoft due to a suspected issue, I actually sent them a water-cooling solution kit and asked if they could fit it (given the limitations on opening up without voiding the warrenty). It was nice to now have it be as quiet as my PS2 slim rather than compete with the TV itself for volume.

Morcilla
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 12:00
Save one of the first ATI/DX10 for me.
dark coder
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 14:01 Edited at: 1st Jun 2007 14:05
Get an ATI, nVidia don't deliver any prizes so you may as well make them lose money .

NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 14:22
I've always gone with nVidia. The 6600 onwards are good enough to play pretty much any game out (although not at full detail).


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
Virtual X
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 14:29 Edited at: 1st Jun 2007 14:31
lol, good reason dark coder haha!

well... I looked at the Connect3D ATI as I stated, but I was thinking about replacing the fan with a Zalman fan apparently much better at cooling and more reliable,the X1950 XT got a very good review in 'Custom PC' magazine and it handled games like Fear, DOOM 3 and, Need 4 speed carbon and Prey quite nicely.

I'm not bothered if it's not the best GFX card but I would like to play the above games on full detail at a nice FPS rate.
FredP
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 15:59
Quote: "The problem is that Nvidia cards may be reliable, but the ATi equivalent, a small powerful fan, and a stool costs less, and preforms a lot better then the matching Nvidia card."


You can get a Geoforce 8500 for a little under a hundred bucks.

GatorHex
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 16:04 Edited at: 1st Jun 2007 16:05
Nvidia all the way! The unified driver achitecture means you will still be able to get a driver for that card when the next version of windows comes out!

FredP
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 16:07
Now I just need to make sure my motherboard won't explode if I hook the graphics card into it.

indi
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 16:08
sounds like you need a card for gaming and not multimedia.
perhaps that helps you decide.

zenassem
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 16:14
Well I can't even think about Nvidia right now. Due to principles over a situation (that every knows about). Not saying I'll never buy Nvidia again, but right now I know I will look to avoid it if possible.

But why take advice from me, I have a Toshiba Satellite Laptop (My main comp. right now) with posssibly the worst embedded graphics controller known to man.

An Intel 82855 GME.

Now get this!
The hardware is capable of T&L but the driver doesn't make use of it at current.

Q. When will the driver make use of it, you might ask?

A.When Intel realizes that hardware T&L isn't a passing fad!!!

If that doesn't just tickle your nipples????

Raven
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Posted: 1st Jun 2007 16:42
Quote: "Nvidia all the way! The unified driver achitecture means you will still be able to get a driver for that card when the next version of windows comes out!"


They've started segmenting the driver sets.
The driver my brother can use (FX5200) and that for the card I've just bought him (8800) are completely different on Vista.

Dx10 realistically is to blame but still, it's a god damn pain.

Quote: "Q. When will the driver make use of it, you might ask?

A.When Intel realizes that hardware T&L isn't a passing fad!!!"


haha, TnL has now been and gone. Using it over PRT and/or PerPixel lighting is just retarded for modern game development.

Lemme just remember how DBP does it again.. hehe

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