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Geek Culture / How Do You Finish A Game?

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Bozzy
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Location: Birmingham, UK
Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 12:37
Hi,

I've got some really good ideas for a game, I start to make it, then I go off coz I've got some really good ideas for another game... Apparently it's the way my brain thinks, going off all the time, can't get fixed on one thing.

lol

Any ideas how I can complete just one game lol?

I don't know if this is a good question but oh well, would be useful to me.
Scraggle
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 12:48
Quote: "then I go off coz I've got some really good ideas for another game"


Don't



Bozzy
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 12:59
I would love to, but I really can't help it lol
Blobby 101
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 13:36
yeah, i have something similar. i just can't concentrate on one thing at a time. although i've never completed a game either i would say just think to yourself, when you want to make a different game, "wait a sec, if i brake off now i'll never come back to this, and if i start something else it'll happen again and i'll never finish a game. do i REALLY want that?" or something along those lines.


thanks to deathead for the sig!
Projects: alien abductor-5%
Raven
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 13:39
rewards. that's the key to getting anyone to do anything; the better the reward the more likely they'll stick to what they need or want to.

i've found giving myself the promise of a few hours of tv, or that danish that's sitting in the kitchen. but only once i hit some sorta landmark tends to work wonders. ^_^

once you get yourself hooked into development again it can be hours before you realise how long you've spent on it.

Inspire
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Location: Rochester, NY
Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 18:07
Quote: "i just can't concentrate on one thing at a time"


That's why I model while texturing, texture while UV mapping, code while level designing, etc.

Zaibatsu
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Location: Lost in Thought
Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 18:30
Quote: "rewards. that's the key to getting anyone to do anything"


I agree.

What you need to do BEFORE you start is write down the storyline, and draw all the maps. Draw at least the first level before you even touch the computer. That way, its all nice an laid out for you. If you know what you need to do, and focus on it, you brain is less likely to wander while thinking of what to do next.

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

AlexRiva
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Location: Monza, Italy
Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 18:31
Having completed 7 full games in DarkBasic since 2005 (plus more in other languages), I have some experience about this

The main issue is motivation and a deadline: if have an idea for a game, and you have the skills to create it, you are only at the start, what you have to do first is to have a deadline. Try to make a game for a contest as your first full project, such as TGC contests or other game coding contests around the Internet, they may help you to focus on a deadline instead of idling around coding, then modeling, then making a piece of music and so on.

Another good thing to do is to code the skeleton of the game first, don't play too much with shaders, smoke and special effects until you have at least a mimum working game basis and engine, then you can add as many fx as a Michael Bay movie has I, too, used to juggle with menus, presentations, animations, particle effects and so on before even having a firing sprite moving, that's not the way!

Just my two cents

Visit my new website: http://www.maskedbear.com
Julius Caesar
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 20:30
@ AlexRiva: I totally agree with what you just said. However, I find I do that and I have a nice little engine that works and my game is basic, but playable. However, people playing my games get quickly bored, and when it comes round to doing 'all those little things' I find I really can't be bothered to add them into the main engine.

However, if you code tidily like some more experienced forum members by using functions and generic code, then it is easy to add in little 'titbits'.
You need to be sure that the code you do write is perfect for the purpose, avoid using simple hacks like I find myself doing frequently. The truth is, these short cuts slow the game down and make the code really difficult to change when you come back to it after working on another section for a while.

If I code tidily I find that I code well and quickly. Often, I may think I have done something really well until I come back to it to "tweak" it and find that I should have done it a far simpler way that I simply missed.

At least, thats what I have to say (after only really completing minor projects). A great person to ask would be people with real experience. This should go in "Game Theory". That way Tinkerbell could really dissect it!

Thanks!

dark coder
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 20:48
I find motivation hard because large scale engines often require large parts of the code to be quite advanced and these advanced bits are usually quite boring to make. AI is a good example, I personally can't stand making it, one way around this is to make really basic AI so that my game works then I can do some work on the more fun stuff and gradually improve the AI as I need to. I like perfecting things as I make them though, I rarely use temporary media or temp code.

One thing you could try is to make mini games / 20liners, I took a small two day break from my current project to make a 20liner and it was pretty fun, you get to see results pretty fast after all. And you could always expand the engine to make it into a proper game.

Kevin Picone
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 20:55
Quote: "How Do You Finish A Game?"


one step at a time

Benjamin
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 21:02
I like to reward myself by saying that if I finish off the artificial gravity in my game or the holoprojector I'm allowed to spend 0.5 hours studying Klingon or finish sewing together my commander starfleet uniform.

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
Multisync V1 (DBP/DBCe)
TEST OF WILL
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 21:48 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2007 21:49
OH MY GOD YOU ARE EXACTLY LIKE ME WHAT SHOULD I DO LOL. I make a sci-fi level see another item and begin to make an urban level and so on it's weird!
Zotoaster
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2007 22:11 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2007 22:12
I deliberatelly start new projects, and don't intend to finish them. I'll get bored of my main project, so I'll make a game till I get really bored of it and go back to my main project.

[edit]
Also, make development of the game as easy as possible. I've actually been developing tools and libraries for my games for a few years now. These include: physics, GUI, scripting, particles, etc. Now if I ever want to make a game, I just use these and they dramatically cut down my workload.

Shadow heart
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 04:15
i find it easy, if i switch off between two projects, between two different engines.

but yeah zotoaster i somtimes start new projects just for funL)

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Inspire
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 04:40
When I get bored with developing my game, I go play Gears of War, F.E.A.R., or look at videos of S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl, which are the main inspirations for my game. Then I pick out something cool about them, and work to get that in my game.

I also push myself to at least finish a level of my game so that I can play it through. Am I weird when I say that I enjoy playing my own games?

Code Dragon
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 04:41 Edited at: 4th Jun 2007 04:41
I usually just code like crazy as much as I can, but when I run into something that I'm not sure how to implement properly I take a break for a couple days and think it out and then come back to it. The only problem there is sometimes I forget about the project and don't work on it at all for as long as a week.

You never really know a person until you look at their google autocomplete entries.
Zerk
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 06:06
This is the story of my life. I have an over active brain I guess because I find it hard to concentrate on one game at a time. That is when I'm working on them myself. Other games I do at work or I do with a team (like mods or something) I always finish... but my own ideas... it's really difficult.

I would suggest joining up with someone or a team who will be dedicated to the completing of the task.

However, there are some really good ideas posted here that I myself need to take into account to help me out with my problem.

Thanks guys!

I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do. ~Hal-9000
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 4th Jun 2007 06:33
Don't work on two projects at the same time. Taking a break is okay, but if you have multiple projects then you exponentially increase your chance of failure with each one.


Come see the WIP!
Code Dragon
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 02:23 Edited at: 5th Jun 2007 02:26
Quote: "Taking a break is okay, but if you have multiple projects then you exponentially increase your chance of failure with each one."


That would explain alot. In addition to working on my FPS I'm writing a prime number program to sell to the CIA, and I haven't gotten very far in either of them.

You never really know a person until you look at their google autocomplete entries.
Zaibatsu
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 02:55
I also have trouble finishing games, but I set a goal for myself. I have a team of 2-3, and we will finish a game we started awhile ago in the next 3 months.

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

Bozzy
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 09:15
I want to get into a team, but I don't know who with lol
sp3ng
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 12:36
ive got a friend helping me with modeling/texturing (my weak points)
Fallout
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 13:33
Planning is the solution. Everything should be planned out in advance - diagrams for level designs, todo lists etc. As soon as you start to wing it, you'll lose your way.


Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 14:04
Quote: "Planning is the solution."

...And telling yourself that if you finish off the artificial gravity in your game or the holoprojector you're allowed to spend 0.5 hours studying Klingon or finish sewing together you commander starfleet uniform!

Tempest (DBP/DBCe)
Multisync V1 (DBP/DBCe)
Fallout
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 14:08 Edited at: 5th Jun 2007 14:09
... and planning (how to sew together your Jean Luc Pickard imitation starfleet uniform, in magestic purple).


Van B
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 14:27
I find the best motivation is sitting down and figuring out how much time you'll have wasted if you don't finish the project .

I enter a lot of compo's and that's a good way to develop different ideas and game styles, but more importantly there's the chance of reward if you finish the project, so your more likely to finish it. I mean I made a Ghostbusters clone for the retroremakes competition, missed the deadline, so I'm left with a 95% finished game, and no real motivation to finish the other 5% (mostly just tweaking). I will get it done, because it's a lovely game, but if the compo was extended by 1 week I'd have got it done, instead Ghoulhunters is in limbo. It's really frustrating to have a complete project and not released, it kinda puts a dampner on all your hard work.

One thing that I think is important, and I haven't even got one is a website - not being able to upload stuff properly is a pain in the butt, I think I need to get a website together, get all my finished stuff on there, and that'll make me want to add to it.

Hehe, people might think I've been a bit lazy recently, when actually I've finished 3 games that hardly anybody has played yet!.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
GatorHex
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 18:42 Edited at: 5th Jun 2007 18:43
Quote: "How do you finish a game?"


Fix all the bugs, then it's finished

I personaly have no problems working on 2-3 games at the same time and flitting between them when I get bored of the current one.

Fallout
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 18:51
Quote: "Fix all the bugs, then it's finished"


So EA has never finished a game then! (Sorry Jeku)


Diggsey
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 21:02
What I do:

- Start programming game
- Get to stage whereit can be run
- Run it too much and get bored
- Get idea for new game
- Think: "I'll put off my homework for another hour if I continue on my main project"
- Get in trouble for not doing homework
- Catch up on work, and by that time I'm really eager to start programming it again!
- Go to start.

Maybe that's not the best way, lol! But it works a lot of the time

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 22:09
Coming up with ideas and going to others is common for various things, I've fallen victim to it more than once myself. I had this problem with writing mostly. What I find works, develop all of the ideas, pick your favourite and work on it and then you can start applying all of your other ideas into it.

EG. In the story I am writing I had great ideas of the characters meeting after a bar fight, then I had the idea to have some child hood significance - I combined those two ideas, so that the two characters meet as children, but the bar fight drifts them apart (As one didn't like the other getting into a petty bar fight)

So essentially all or most of your ideas go into one game, they don't even have to be the same style game with each idea, but you can take principles for each, like I could restart Ronin, but tie in the mysteries and 'dreaminess' of Shadow Behind the Leaves and some of the neurotic delusions of Abeyance - the main character Akai could lose people he loves and follows the mystery of the death of that person, the grief starts playing with his mind.

So combinations work. So if you're eager to work on one idea that you aren't working on, make sure you got the main engine parts made and then you can jump back and forth from these ideas (I don't recommend it though, but you work better when you feel inspired )

Support the return of Cow-Fishing! Hook up Paris Hilton and die!
Code Dragon
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 22:14
Well, I only work on projects when I have no homework that day so I don't get in trouble. That (usually) works pretty well. I shot myself in the foot this year by getting into too many honors courses so I don't have much time to work on my games. At least I'm taking a programming course next year instead of another hard course.

You never really know a person until you look at their google autocomplete entries.
Julius Caesar
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Posted: 5th Jun 2007 22:25
I forgot to say that being part of a team doesn't really act as much of a motivation. It does to begin with, but I found with my poject it does the opposite. The person we have doing our modelling is very slow, and to be quite honest, lazy. He began well but he doesn't enfoy animting so much.

It has got to the point now where I have begun animating myself! So... I wouldn't really say that a team is neccesarily a motivation, unless the team is very hardworking and equal in abilities.

I find moddeling a real bore, so I avoid it. The visuals in my games suffer, but I live with it. Your game is only finished when you pronounce it so. I often declare games as finished and then go back to work on them. The biggest tips I could really give would be:

1) Know when to stop!
2) Don't bite off more than you can chew!

Thanks, I hope I can be of help!

Zaibatsu
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Posted: 6th Jun 2007 00:48
Quote: "I want to get into a team, but I don't know who with lol"


someone you can have direct contact with.

Long distance teams don't work so well in my experience. Its best when you can talk directly to that person without electronic assistance.

"I admire its purity, a survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality"

Bozzy
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Posted: 6th Jun 2007 09:34
Hmmm, thats impossible for me, as there isn't anybody close to me who does game making. I have a couple of people on msn though, but if long distance teams don't work so well.....
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 6th Jun 2007 21:23
Simple solution - Win the lottery several times and buy EA out.

Support the return of Cow-Fishing! Hook up Paris Hilton and die!
Jeku
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 00:40 Edited at: 7th Jun 2007 00:40
Quote: "I'm writing a prime number program to sell to the CIA"


You're joking, I hope.

Quote: "So EA has never finished a game then! (Sorry Jeku)"


Well to that I say, show me a commercial game that doesn't have bugs

Bozzy
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 08:56
Quote: "show me a commercial game that doesn't have bugs"


There's not many, but there's got to be one lurking somewhere...

PONG?
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 09:16
I never found a bug in Starcraft or Diablo, and both of those were v1.0...


Come see the WIP!
Van B
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 11:19
I tend not to notice bugs in commercial games, except when they're glaringly obvious, like the sticky geometry in Unreal2. The biggest bug in an EA game I've noticed is in BF2 on the 360, corpses end up with mangled limbs and bulgy eyes, I wouldn't change that though, it's too funny.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
Jeku
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Posted: 9th Jun 2007 04:52
Quote: "I never found a bug in Starcraft or Diablo, and both of those were v1.0..."


You'd probably be surprised at how many bugs the producers will "auto-ship" toward the end of a project. Dozens, if not hundreds.

Xenocythe
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Posted: 9th Jun 2007 06:58
I used to be in three teams, work on 5 games/apps, and make music for some people.

And I also tried to squeeze in time for my MMO.

So I quit the teams, gave away the sources for the apps, just quit the games, stopped making the music.

I do have a lot more time now, but I find myself going outside more and not having any time left to code my uber mmo. Weird.


But I have a whole summer to focus on... basketball... swimming... soccor... girls... and my mmo.

Danmit.

Bozzy
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Posted: 9th Jun 2007 12:32
Whats "Auto-Shipping"? lol
Dared1111
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Posted: 9th Jun 2007 19:01
This is going off topic...

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