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Geek Culture / Are games addictive?

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 21:07 Edited at: 26th Jun 2007 21:10
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Check out this article from CNN. What do you think of this?

Some highlights from the article:
Quote: "Doctors backed away on Sunday from a controversial proposal to designate video game addiction as a mental disorder akin to alcoholism, saying psychiatrists should study the issue more."


Quote: ""There is nothing here to suggest that this is a complex physiological disease state akin to alcoholism or other substance abuse disorders, and it doesn't get to have the word addiction attached to it," said Dr. Stuart Gitlow of the American Society of Addiction Medicine and Mt. Sinai School of Medicine in New York."


Quote: "While occasional use of video games is harmless and may even help with some disorders like autism, doctors said in extreme cases it can interfere with day-to-day necessities like working, showering or even eating."


Quote: ""Working with this problem is no different than working with alcoholic patients. The same denial, the same rationalization, the same inability to give it up," Dr. Thomas Allen of the Osler Medical Center in Towson, Maryland."

I disagree with that. "My wife left me, I need to play Call of Duty" isn't something I think I've ever heard.

Quote: ""The more time kids spend on video games, the less time they will have socializing, the less time they will have with their families, the less time they will have exercising," Kraus said."

In a way, can't it be said that games are a way to socialize? I mean, you can play splitscreen with your friends, or have a LAN party, or play online with people you know (and people you've never met), and you might actually make friends through your mutual love for the game. I don't see why it isn't considered socializing unless they're spalking cheetos in your face.

Edit: Spalking = spitting and talking, something my friends made up years ago, I just used it passively without thinking about it lol


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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 21:10 Edited at: 26th Jun 2007 21:10
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It's there now.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 21:10
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Yeah, had some technical difficulties with my fingers, lol, sorry about that.


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 21:16
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I don't get addicted... in fact I can tire of games very quickly sometimes. Once I play 'em through it's usually enough of that game for maybe up to a year.

If it's a multiplayer game it takes longer for it to get old (sometimes), but I never find myself longing to play a game to the point of worrying it's an addiction.

However I wouldn't throw the idea of addiction out the window. There are some mental cases out there who become overly obsessed with some games (like MMORPGs for example) and take things a might bit too seriously. I'd worry for them, but just like gaming and violence, I think you already have to have some sort of mental issue.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 21:38
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I'd say they are in my case, well depends on the game, I mean some of them you want to see to right to the end and find out what happens and what will stand in the way of the character, whilst having a lot of fun doing so...but I don't see a game any less addictive than a good book or a good TV Series, I mean 24 has got me hooked and now I'm having withdrawal symptoms with season 6 finished. A good book can have me reading for a long time, I read a 1/3 of 'Silence of the Lambs' in one day. And well I keep returning to the older Final Fantady games so I can play them again and well I didn't complete Prey as quickly as I could for nothing - and I was satisfied with the ending.

So yeah, games can be addictive.

But to the extent of a mental problem akin to alcoholism...oh brother, in some cases perhaps (See problems in China and Korea as far as addictions can go), but as I made the example, 'like a good book or TV series' - I don't think I'll see a "Jack Bauer's annonymous" meeting in my life. So I'd say for it to be seriously addictive, you'd have to be an extremely hardcore dedicated gamer.

But in reality, EVERY hobby can result in addictive sympthoms and become an mental additive problem and cause denial. You just have to enjoy it so much you're doing it most of the time and love it so much if someone tells you that you have a problem or need to stop, then they'll call you crazy. My sister is addicted to the internet, my Mum was addicted to drawing and never percieved that they were addicted.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 21:52
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I believe games can be addictive to an extent, but I think it depends on the person.

Does it matter, anyway?

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Fallout
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 21:58
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I don't think games are addictive. It's just a method for getting enjoyment. Everyone wants to have fun and enjoyment. Take a teenage boy who's spending all his time playing games and present him with the option of spending all his time playing with a lingerie model, and I reckon his computer game "addiction" will quickly be forgotten.

Kids just have really dull lives at home these days, and computer games are their best source of fun, so they're naturally going to want to have fun all the time. Bloody research scientists. Can't they go and do something useful like find a cure for cancer rather than investing time and money in this sort of rubbish?


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PowerSoft
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 23:45
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It's a funny little circle, imagine the arguement, a bit like this...

Parents want their children to get more fresh air becuase that are what reports say on TV, and may be considered a bad parent if they let their children play on the PC/Console alot.

Said parent then lets children play outside, this leads to two avenues

1) Children play outside but due to parent paranoia are limited to where they can play as they don't want there child nabbed or injured.

2) The parent lets the children spend as much time outside as they want but then gets called a bad parent (potentially) by others as they spend no time with them, they are out on the streets acting 'Yobby' and may been seen as bad parenting as don't 100% know where their children are, who perhaps are getting high or drunk.

The result, the children are made to spend time indoors, and oh look, we're back at the start....


I'm not a parent and don't necessarily agree with all the points but there is alot of social pressure and influence on parent's both ways. There is also the issue of not wanting to appear as Ogre's too their children by not letting them make their own decisions and with the feeling they're being told what to do.

I think it's important to find a balance and just be level headed about it really.


Just my thoughts...
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DrewG
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 00:56
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I'll say that life is sometimes dull, and I can be addicted to video games, but first of all:

It may be summer, but I live in the country, five miles from the nearest "town". Second, it gets up to 120 degrees. Yesterday it was 110 and its not even July.

Does that give any explanation to why I prefer to stay indoors, and do gaming?
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tha_rami
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 03:11
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Games can be (problematicly) addictive, but also are a form of socializing. Basically, yeah, it's like alcohol - it has benificial and negative effects, it can be problematicly addictive, but it is also a way of getting together. Luckily, gaming doesn't make you lose your mind (unless for going on a killing rampage due to GTA, ofcourse) and you don't wind up waking up with a girl that looked so much better the day before (never had that, I've been sober for my whole life and don't plan on changing that, just stories I hear).


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Daemon
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 04:18 Edited at: 27th Jun 2007 04:19
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Quote: "or even eating."

I didn't think this was a problem. It's easy to forget sometimes.

The closest thing to withdrawal that video games has is boredom.
I'm more worried about the psychiatrists waiting to diagnose this than the "addicts".

[center]Insanity is just a state of mind.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 04:33 Edited at: 27th Jun 2007 04:34
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Games aren't necessarily addictive. However, some people have addictive personalities. It is reasonable to assume that a person with an addictive personality might become addicted to something that normal people wouldn't. There are gambling addictions, sex addictions, food addictions, and the list goes on.

The similarity that these share is that they produce a certain feeling in the addict that they wish to reproduce over and over again. Video games can produce feelings, and thus are candidates for this.

The problem isn't video games, and treating 'video game addiction' itself would likely be unhelpful. People need their addictive tendencies treated instead.


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tha_rami
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 04:48
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I think World Of Warcraft has shown most gamers are highly susceptible to addiction. They even set up clinics for WoW-addicts because the problem was so severe. The emotion most responsible for gaming addiction is reward (dopamine hormone, I recall) - dopamine is basically a drug (also responsible for the feeling of love) and has withdrawal effects (boredom, depression, ect).

Good games, especially MMORPG's are really games that push you to 'just one more level', 'just that one item', 'just this', 'just that'. I think few people can claim they've not at one point shown signs of addiction in gaming. With the recent stream of 'ongoing' games, as MMORPG's and the like, I fear gaming addiction is becoming more serious.


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 05:33
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Well, I was into WoW for awhile, and I never got addicted. I really enjoyed it for about 6 months, and it was lots of fun, getting all the rewards and leveling my character etc etc. But anytime I could have just quit. It wouldn't make any difference. Slowly as time went on the game lost it's luster and I don't think I'll be ready to buy another month of the game for awhile until I know I'll use it. It's also very time consuming, so that turns me off from it a bit. I kinda like playing a fast multiplayer game for like a half-hour to an hour at most rather than playing continuously for 3 or 4. It saves time for other things.

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Dr Manette
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 07:17
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Sure, they can be addicting, but what isn't? Just because I send a good amount of time playing video games, doesn't mean I'm or anyone else is addicted. Is drawing a mental disease if I do it too much? What about playing piano or photography?

Honestly, people will find anything wrong and exploit it. If we actually solved the real problems, we'd be done by now instead of pushing false ideas.

*sigh*

Yea, the rant is over.


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Dazzag
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 09:52
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Yep, they can be addictive to some people. Oh no.

But then so is a hell of a lot of things. Hopefully they don't come and burn my 700 books as they have took up an unhealthy amount of my lifetime And some are about murder, horror, unspeakable things.... poor me.... cry....

Cheers

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Van B
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 10:28
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I think it's possible to crave videogames, especially when your denied.

For example I have a friend who is always kinda outstaying his welcome, it's one thing to come around at the weekend and have a game of GRAW or something with us - but he ends up staying far too late playing games the whole time because his girlfriend won't let him have a console or play PC games very much. I think that if your allowed to play games when you like, you tend not to go overboard - it's when you don't get to play all week, or when you know your only gonna get to play to a certain point, that's when you get kinda obsessive and play as much as you possibly can.

As for kids, well these days kids are communicating online more than adults! - be it Xbox Live or Bebo or IM or whatever, gaming is certainly not the lonely act it used to be. I dunno, gaming never really felt anti-social to me, but that could be because my whole family play games, some of the best times I remember as a kid involved videogames, like my dad coming home with the ZX Spectrum, sitting typing in magazine listings with him before I could even read, making ridiculous text adventures with my brother, us all taking turns trying to beat Lemmings until the silly hours of the morning. Last xmas I spent a great afternoon completing Bubble Bobble on the DS in co-op with my mom!.
The only time I remember getting into any sort of 'your addicted' arguments was with SEUCK on the C64 - if your not knowing SEUCK (shoot-em-up construction set) was this mad game creation system with sprite editor and level editor and stuff built into a very neat package, it actually let you record your game right onto a tape to give to your pals - twas made by the Sensible Software guys. That was like crack that thing!, someone should make a version for the DS, they'd make a fortune.


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Fallout
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 11:36
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All you guys who think you are addicted to games, do you truly experience uncontrollable psychological cravings to play the games? Cravings that you can't stop yourself from satisfying? Do you wake up in the middle of the night and want to play computer games? Do you forfeit other cool and interesting things (say going out to the cinema or other activities) just to play computer games? AFAIK, those are symptoms of addiction.

If you just choose to play games when you're at home a lot of the time, and sometimes you end up playing for a long time (overrunning dinner, playing late into the night), that's not really addiction. That word is definitely overused.


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Dazzag
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 12:09 Edited at: 27th Jun 2007 12:10
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Yeah, I was going to say. Total PC (arf..) world when they think playing games is a major problem

Friend of mine from Uni was an alcoholic. Ok, so technically we all were at the time (go to AA meetings and you will find there are different levels of alcoholism, and no it doesn't start with hiding vodka bottles in your bedroom...), but she couldn't cope when she married a german then lived there for a few years. Anyways she went from a low level alcoholic (drinking lots in Uni) to pretty much the worst you can get. When I visited a few years ago she mentioned she was going to AA now. What I didn't notice while I was there was how she kept going to the bathroom, and stupid as I was, didn't realise she was basically getting more and more drunk as the days went on. In the end we found she was literally hiding numerous bottles of spirits all over the place (including in the bathroom) and would neck like half a bottle of vodka before you can get it off her. Very sad. She has recovered since then and is now happy. On the other hand my grandfather never handled it properly (was a pub landlord) and it killed him. Plus I have loads of friends who are basically one step away from the old hiding the bottle in the towels trick. Essentially programmers drink a lot when they are in groups and work near pubs. In my experience obviously.

Anyhow, my point is until I personally see computer games effecting people to the degree that I have seen alcohol effect the people around me, then who gives a monkeys? From what I can see the vast majority of people who play games are normal sorts of people. Sure there are massive exceptions like those few cases of people dying in Korea from playing games for like 3 days non-stop, but we are talking amazingly rare and stupid people here. I'm sure you can find statistics of people dying while watching 3 days worth of horror or porn or whatever.

Alcoholism is worrying. Games are not really.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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tha_rami
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 12:25
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Quote: "All you guys who think you are addicted to games, do you truly experience uncontrollable psychological cravings to play the games? Cravings that you can't stop yourself from satisfying? Do you wake up in the middle of the night and want to play computer games? Do you forfeit other cool and interesting things (say going out to the cinema or other activities) just to play computer games? AFAIK, those are symptoms of addiction."

I had this one year in life when I could claim yes, game was called Gangsterhood and it was one of those tick/update based browser games. I got my whole class into it, and lead our borgata (clan). I ended up doing all 4 ticks (one per six hours), including one at 4AM. I skipped hours at school for it, didn't go sporting and at whatever friends house, at 10AM, 4PM and 10PM I would suddenly stop doing whatever I was doing (automatically) and do my update. Glad I got over that. My girlfriends little brother, too, is addicted to gaming. He skips school and has legal steps taken against him, but he does have four level 70 characters in WoW. I really think that we, the core group of gamers or game theory will not get addicted that fast, but the casual gamer will get addicted a lot faster, I think.

Quote: "Alcoholism is worrying. Games are not really."

But they can be darned addictive
But they can be darned addictive.


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Fallout
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 12:46
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Quote: "But they can be darned addictive
But they can be darned addictive."


A rare moment of split personalities agreeing on something?!


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Van B
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 12:48
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Ahh crud, a glitch in the matrix!


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Dazzag
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 13:33
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Quote: "But they can be darned addictive"
Yes, but IMO when compared to other things it is not very worrying at all. ie. not worth even the discussion. They are addictive, fair enough. And...?

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Current fave quote : "She was like a candle in the wind.... unreliable...."
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 21:44
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Quote: "he ends up staying far too late playing games the whole time because his girlfriend won't let him have a console or play PC games very much."

Okay... smack this guy and demand that he breaks up with her immediately, or give me an address so I can do it. What kind of bizarre control freak won't let her boyfriend play video games? Seriously, if it's something he enjoys doing and she says "you can't do that," then he should dump her and find someone who will enjoy games with him. I found a perfectly beautiful Phillipino girl whose a hardcore gamer just like I am, and she's a massage therapist by trade so my back never hurts these days. If I can do it, he can too. So please Van, if you care about your friend, please punch him in the face, then buy him a pint, then tell him to dump this witch and find someone who will grant him freedom! If he wants to wear the pants in the relationship, I suggest he puts them on .

Quote: "I think World Of Warcraft has shown most gamers are highly susceptible to addiction."

My afforementioned girlfriend is a WoW addict, and my brother is too. I played it, enjoyed it for a week or so, then got bored with it. It's an outrageously slow-paced game, as most RPG's are when compared to an FPS game. I think I got sick of the people who play it more than the game itself. People saying "well, in the battlegrounds you're going to need teamspeak, the action is super-intense and you won't have time to type!" Wrong. After storming the beach at Normandy, and killing a few hundred-thousand terrorists, and running a ground assault against an Iraqi military base, I've found the need for teamspeak. It's fast-paced, with bullets wizzing past your face and artillery exploding all around. Much faster and more difficult than facing the general direction of an enemy and pressing "1" on your keyboard. Sorry lol, had to vent.


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hessiess
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 22:57
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games are only addictive if they are designed to be addictive.

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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 22:50
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Quote: "he ends up staying far too late playing games the whole time because his girlfriend won't let him have a console or play PC games very much."


Sounds like my uncle. If he plays video games with me at my place, he has to hide it from his wife. She gets pissed at him for playing games. I mean WTF. Really.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 28th Jun 2007 23:00
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I know several people that failed full semesters at college playing MUD's, a person can become addicted to anything. The problem is we have begun to label addictions of choice as diseases. Not all though oddly, alcohol, drugs, sex, food all diseases, smoking(one of the most addictive) is not.

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