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Geek Culture / [STICKY] The Posting Competition

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 03:44
Diggsey
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 03:52
The beast

[b]
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 03:56
Happy Cheesecake
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 04:17
Page.

E-I-E-I-O
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 04:18
thenerd
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 04:38
A machine dispensing udp packets had a sign saying "Out of Order"
(the great thing about udp jokes is I don't care if you get them)...

Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 04:41
Ha! I liked that.

661

Twisted Steel Software
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 06:29
This thread is unpossibly long. I've not been on here for an unpossible amount of time. UNPOSSABLE.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 06:34
Unpossibabibally.

Twisted Steel Software
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 06:35
So.. how do you win this competition?

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 06:36 Edited at: 21st Aug 2012 06:40
Get the most points by the time the thread gets locked.

Edit: Hey, you just got points.

Twisted Steel Software
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 06:43
But it hasn't been locked yet because you started this before they added the unhelpful posts rule!

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 06:44
I'm pretty sure they added the rule because of this.

Incubus - Follow
Incubus - Pardon Me

Yes.

Twisted Steel Software
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 06:50
I strongly dislike The Game Creators. Their community is awesome, but their software blows. Intel gave them an award.. and it wasn't deserved. Dark Basic Professional's compiler is a joke.

DBP:

This produces well over 80 instructions.

C:

This (the part I'm focusing on; the addition) is one instruction no matter what optimization setting the compiler may be set to. mov [memAddr], 45.. or similar.

Hey! LEARN C. Actually.. I'm going to post a mothafookin tutorawrawr.

Yes.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 06:54
Actually, in C, that part would be removed because 'i' isn't used anywhere in the function.

I posted assembly output of DBP somewhere in here... Scavenger hunt!

Twisted Steel Software
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 06:55
Actually, in C, it wouldn't be removed unless optimizations were enabled. I left that out for brevity.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 06:58 Edited at: 21st Aug 2012 07:07
I just looked at GCC's output. I'm not sure what I'm seeing here...

EDIT: Here's the output I get from GCC. Maybe you can make some sense of it?


Twisted Steel Software
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 07:08
C:


Output ASM with


Output:


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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 07:11
+1 for -masm=intel



Twisted Steel Software
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 07:13
THIS JUST IN:

C keyword "register" has no effect on output at all (GCC 4.6.3), at any optimization level (0, 1, 2, 3, s).

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 07:15 Edited at: 21st Aug 2012 07:29
Source?

EDIT: I like waffles.

Twisted Steel Software
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 07:37
Eh. Source is eh. I don't feel like typing it again. Sue me.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 07:52
Just read this. I can't stand C#.

Randomness 128
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 08:01
Let's all use 68k assembly.
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 08:24
Let's all use MIPS assembly.

Twisted Steel Software
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 09:25 Edited at: 21st Aug 2012 09:26
Thank you for posting that link. Very helpful. ALSO, I actually /like/ C# in some ways. It's a pain in the ass some ways.. (no unions.. super strict).. but others it feels like the best choice for current day anything. C is too low level and takes longer. C++ is a hackish C, and isn't OOP nor Procedural.. it's like my first crush (Multiple personalities). C# is pretty good. It's (probably) better than Java still.. and it manages memory for you.. not to mention you can jump right in and use it due to having great documentation. I don't see the downside, logically. Realistically? It's a slow pile of dog crap; It's still better than DBP!

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 09:32
Quote: "and it manages memory for you"

Your man card. Hand it over.

Quote: "I don't see the downside, logically."

You mean theoretically? Automated memory management is dangerous (both theoretically and in practice) for performance.

----

Can't stand its syntax.

Twisted Steel Software
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 09:37
Managing memory yourself isn\'t \"manly\". It\'s a pain in the ass for beginners.. (even many \"professionals\"... I\'m looking at you, <every f*cking CS teacher everywhere>. Not to mention, that was funny. Related note, I hope you realize there are female programmers out there and that some wouldn\'t get that as a joke and be annoyed.

I meant logically, as in, in my head it sounds good. On paper it sounds good.

I like a lot of its syntax. Some things I gag at, but there\'s many (the ones from C, of course) that I still love.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 09:44
Quote: "Related note, I hope you realize there are female programmers out there and that some wouldn\'t get that as a joke and be annoyed."

I would hope that any human wouldn't be that sensitive, especially since it wasn't directed to them.

The syntax I'm referring to is [DoStuff(things)], as well as this:


Twisted Steel Software
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 10:07 Edited at: 21st Aug 2012 10:10
DID YOU KNOW? This forum incorrectly escapes or double-escapes ' and "... Let's test.

'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

EDIT: Looks like they were working on the forum and made bad code go live or something.. Doesn't happen anymore.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 11:04
Aertic
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 11:17 Edited at: 21st Aug 2012 11:28


Why yes, yes I certainly am.
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 11:44

Quote: "Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace

You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world

You, you may say
I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one"


TheComet
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 12:43
eReaders are awesome!

TheComet

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Diggsey
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 16:19
I'd just like to point out that C# DOES have unions:


Also, automatic memory management can be fast - allocations are much faster than allocating from the unmanaged heap. Garbage collection itself is still a performance hit, but theoretically there's no reason it should be any slower than unmanaged memory, it's just that current algorithms for it are still improving.

[b]
Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 16:31
Second day of school/first day of all my important classes. Kind of unprepared for today - I didn't print out the room numbers of the classes I have, and since the registration service (which is online but "shuts its doors" for some reason and opens in another half hour) is also the "wait what class exactly is this again" service. So I'll twiddle my thumbs for half an hour then run to school.

Aaron Miller
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Posted: 21st Aug 2012 22:52 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2012 01:16
Diggsey, that's an ugly equivalent to be fair. As for memory management, if it does something that's faster than the native C++ new, then there's no reason that same thing can't be done in your own code. (I imagine it's just recycling objects, which should be done anyway.)

C#: Do not want.

----

32,137

----

This image was amusing for a few moments.


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2012 01:34
I can barely manage my own memory, I'd be totally screwed trying to handle my computer's memory too. Hang on a minute, who are you again? I'm terrible with names and faces.

Diggsey
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2012 06:18
Quote: "Diggsey, that's an ugly equivalent to be fair."


That's a matter of personal taste.

Quote: "if it does something that's faster than the native C++ new, then there's no reason that same thing can't be done in your own code. (I imagine it's just recycling objects, which should be done anyway.)"


It can't be done in native code because you can't just move native objects around in memory. The .net garbage collector compacts all the live objects each time they move to the next generation, so new allocations are as fast as allocating on the stack.

[b]
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2012 06:25 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2012 06:32
Quote: "It can't be done in native code"

And how is the .NET garbage collector implemented? Remember, nothing runs on the processor until it reaches some form of the processor's expected assembly. If .NET can do it, it's technically possible to do it in C++. There are all sorts of methods to perform allocations. If you use a handle system (which is just another layer of indirection) you can achieve the .NET version easily. You can even, if it matters that much, write a tool to do it for you. Then there's no dependency on .NET (which really complicates things when you try to move your code to environments where .NET simply isn't available or acceptable).

3d point in space
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2012 16:07 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2012 16:15
How care's if its faster, dang. Computers are so fast know that code optimization is a mute point. Any way if yo structure your code right it can be as long as you want it. Aaron why are you watching guy shows.

Developer of Space Chips, pianobasic, zipzapzoom, and vet pinball apps. Developed the tiled map engine seen on the showcase. Veteran for the military.
Dar13
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2012 17:41
Quote: "Computers are so fast know that code optimization is a mute point."

That's not true. Code optimization is still pretty important, especially for performance-critical applications or video games.

Diggsey
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2012 18:15 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2012 18:18
Quote: "And how is the .NET garbage collector implemented? Remember, nothing runs on the processor until it reaches some form of the processor's expected assembly. If .NET can do it, it's technically possible to do it in C++. There are all sorts of methods to perform allocations. If you use a handle system (which is just another layer of indirection) you can achieve the .NET version easily. You can even, if it matters that much, write a tool to do it for you. Then there's no dependency on .NET (which really complicates things when you try to move your code to environments where .NET simply isn't available or acceptable)."


I was using the word 'native' to mean code that uses native pointers as opposed to managed references. I'd argue that by the time you've written the infrastructure to use smart pointers which point to something which can be moved around, and have written code to compact the memory in such a way that allocations are fast, you are no longer writing native code

Quote: "Then there's no dependency on .NET (which really complicates things when you try to move your code to environments where .NET simply isn't available or acceptable)."


You mean environments like android and linux

[b]
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2012 19:01
68k assembly is required.
[i][center][/center]
Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2012 20:42
Quote: "Computers are so fast know that code optimization is a mute point."

I agree. Though, it kind of goes without saying - almost all points can't talk.

TheComet
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2012 23:00
Quote: "Computers are so fast know that code optimization is a mute point."


Is that really the way to think? With micro controllers you really have to be careful with your resources because they are so limited, so why change that way of thinking if you're running on better hardware?

TheComet

"if you don't understand recursion than you probably don't understand recursion." ~Jerico2day
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2012 23:20
Quote: "How care's if its faster, dang. Computers are so fast know that code optimization is a mute point. Any way if yo structure your code right it can be as long as you want it. Aaron why are you watching guy shows."

If that's the way you program, you're doing it wrong.

@Diggsey
To be honest I don't have a problem with people using C#, but I personally don't want to. (I know "Twisted Steel Software" personally and I was just messing with him.) The rest is all just my opinion on the matter.

As for environments without .NET, PS3 and Xbox 360, outside of their "XBLA" indie/arcade games. Likewise, there's also kernel development (where .NET support is a novelty to prove it can be done), and all sorts of "more embedded" development (as in "stupider than dumb phones"). You also have to pay for Xamarin, and I was aware of it when I made the post.

If C# works for you or your game, then by all means use it. It is a full featured language and it's not a stereotypical slow. But the memory management is unpredictable, and that can be unacceptable if your game is struggling for 30 frames on modern hardware.

Quote: "Though, it kind of goes without saying - almost all points can't talk."

That's what I was thinking, lol! @3d point: I think you meant "moot."

Happy Cheesecake
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2012 23:36
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2012 23:38
Happy Cheesecake
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2012 23:40
Points.

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