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Geek Culture / Run you car on free hydrogen : United Nuclear

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Chily Dog
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Posted: 1st Oct 2007 07:43 Edited at: 1st Oct 2007 07:44
I have been following this scientific supplier, United Nuclear, for some time now and apparently they are in the final stages of putting out a hydrogen fuel conversion kit for most commercial cars, which would allow any person to power there auto on free, clean fuel with only a few changes to the engine.

Basically, for 7,000 to 10,000 dollars, you get a fuel generator (powered out of the wall or by solar panels), and all the parts to run your car on the combustion of hydrogen instead of petrol. You would never have to pay for fuel again and the car wouldn't pollute a thing.

There development page is updated every few months, and the current progress is worth a read. The website also sells some pretty awesome science stuff (radioactive isotopes, super magnets, chemicals), and I'm a frequent customer

Development page:
http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/

Home Page:
http://www.unitednuclear.com/supplies.htm

H2 Power Basics:
http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/h2.htm

Sorry is this seems like an advertisement, just wanted to discuss this new technology.
Suicidal Sledder
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Posted: 1st Oct 2007 07:46
dude i was going to order some chemicals from there a long time ago but never got around to it lol its tight how you can buy uranium

hyrichter
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Posted: 1st Oct 2007 16:31
Hey, that's really cool. When I first saw the thread title, I was skeptical that this was another one of those "fill your car up with the garden-hose" type of scams. I'm glad to see it's something realistic, and it does look really cool. Sounds like if they could get the CPSC out of their hair, they could've had this ready long before.

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GatorHex
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Posted: 1st Oct 2007 17:24 Edited at: 1st Oct 2007 18:09
Quote: "Run you car on free hydrogen"


The problem with hydrogen, forget for the moment it explodes, is it costs energy (electricity) to produce it. It's not free and the only clean way to make is realy with a hydro/wind/wave/solar power station. There are not enough of these to produce power for every car should we all switch.

As with all electric based vehicles they are very inefficient because transmission of electrcity over powerlines and conversion with transformers loses energy. Always best to burn a fuel at the source of it's use.

My lecturer stated that nuclear power was safe green option and there was only a 1 in 10,000 year chance of a meltdown. To which I pointed out that there had been 2 nuclear melt-downs during my life-time alone!

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Chenak
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Posted: 1st Oct 2007 18:11 Edited at: 1st Oct 2007 18:13
There are more chances of nuclear meltdowns at the current time because of the comittee against nuclear power prevent new and much safer plants from being built. The chernobyl disaster was a tragic event, but remember, it was a pile of crap reactor in the middle of nowhere. It was gonna go sooner or later.

The second one in america I think, it caused no negative environmental effects and no one got injured. The radioactive exposure was the equivilant of an xray.

Nuclear power in my opinion is the safest solution and it has basically no environmental effects compared to the fuels we are currenly using. Unless of course due to sabotage by the anti nuclear power people, or if the same people prevent the construction of areas in which nuclear waste can be safely stored.

If those anti nuclear people would actually try to do some real research and find the real facts instead of spreading lies and fear then maybe we can actually advance the energy technology. We are currently able to build more insanely safe and extremely productive power plants now but they are stopped because every bugger is afraid of them because of these people spreading false facts.
GatorHex
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Posted: 1st Oct 2007 18:21 Edited at: 1st Oct 2007 18:22
The UK is very windy, wavey and has lots of water falls. We should use it.

Considering we are only a small island 500miles x 250miles at a rough guess. If we pepper it with Nuclear power stations and one blew up where would we go to get away from it's effects?

We would all be taking French class very quickly

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hyrichter
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Posted: 1st Oct 2007 18:31 Edited at: 1st Oct 2007 18:34
GatorHex, you make a valid point about the hydrogen being explosive, but if you had read the site, you would've seen they'd already addressed that issue by creating "hydrides" where the hydrogen is bonded to another material.
Quote: " The 3rd option is simply the only way to go. There are materials call Hydrides that absorb Hydrogen like a sponge absorbs water. Typically, the tanks are filled with granulated Hydrides, and Hydrogen is pressurized into the material. Hydrides have many advantages over liquid & gas. One is that the density of the Hydrogen stored in the Hydride can be GREATER than that of liquid Hydrogen. This translates directly into smaller and fewer storage tanks.
Once the Hydride is "charged" with Hydrogen, the Hydrogen becomes chemically bonded to the chemical. Even opening the tank, or cutting it in half will not release the Hydrogen gas. In addition, you could even fire incendiary bullets through the tank and the Hydride would only smolder like a cigarette. It is in fact, a safer storage system than your Gasoline tank is.
Then how do you get the Hydrogen back out? To release the Hydrogen gas from the Hydride, it simply needs to be heated. This is either done electrically, using the waste exhaust heat, or using the waste radiator coolant heat."


Also notice that it does take several days to completely fill up your car if you're using their hydrogen generator. So, yeah, if we all switched to such a system, we'd need something better for producing the hydrogen. But just think for a moment, how much energy does it take to refine crude oil into the gasoline we use? Maybe it would actually be more efficient to create some huge hydrogen plants.

Chenak,
The Chernobyl accident wouldn't have happened if some idiots weren't seeing how far they could go by disabling all the safety systems. I'm all for nuclear power myself. I did a research paper back about 5 or six years ago, and burning coal is a crap-load more dangerous than nuclear.

Edit:
Quote: "My lecturer stated that nuclear power was safe green option and there was only a 1 in 10,000 year chance of a meltdown. To which I pointed out that there had been 2 nuclear melt-downs during my life-time alone!"

And that is a very valid point there. There may be a 1 in 10,0000 year chance of a melt-down if we don't have idiots running the power plant. However, as was shown in the case of Chernobyl, how can we be sure a bunch more dunder-heads don't do something similar? That's the only thing that concerns me about nuclear power.

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Peter H
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Posted: 1st Oct 2007 23:43
I heard from a reasonably reliable source (the Navy speaking at my university about nuclear power) about chernobyl and the other one (some island name i can't remember)... in both cases the automatic-safety features were turned off and the operators were pushing it...

so like hyrichter said... if only it weren't for the idiots...

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Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 1st Oct 2007 23:55
DonĀ“t call other people idiot

Wiki:

Quote: "On April 26, 1986, the fourth reactor of the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant, exploded at 01:23 AM local time. The workers were performing an experiment with the reactor's safety systems. Problems occurred during the tests, the reactor did not receive enough coolant, and had built up too much heat in the core, and had fully withdrawn control rods, all of which contributed to a very unstable and unpredictable reactor operation. When the control rods were reinserted in an attempt to regain control of the unstable reactor, there was a sudden increase in reactivity, caused by the design of the RBMK reactor and its control rods, and an uncontrollable runaway reaction occurred. The reactor produced tremendous amounts of steam, eventually causing a steam break/explosion, which destroyed part of the reactor. Graphite fires broke out, due to the high temperatures of the reactor and that the graphite was exposed to oxygen, causing it to burn, which occurred after the reactor was damaged from the steam explosion. Radioactive debris was flung several miles, and smoke containing radioactive contaminants from the burning graphite, traveled as far as Belarus. All permanent residents of Chernobyl and the Zone of alienation were evacuated because radiation levels in the area had become unsafe.

"



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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 00:05
Tip: Please don't quote Wikipedia, a community made internet source of information...where every nutter and crackpot can give info - this means you don't know how true anything on there is - parts could be unchecked, urban legends, mistakes, lies and even hoaxes, so you know, Wikipedia is a place to go for it's bibliographies and perhaps use the info as a simplified version of something you'll check afterwards.

I mean, I saw one article that was 'ELTON JOHN IS GAY' and one the declared Borat as the president of Kazakhstan, so I wouldn't rely too much on it as a source.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 00:15
Seppuku, I would love to see a source saying that the safety controls were turned off and that the reactor was being pushed.

At least Wikipedia has sources on it's statements, as opposed to third party conjecture offered by a Navy recruiter.


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Sopo the tocho
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 00:20
I quoted it because I donĀ“t have any other source to quote right now, but I KNOW its CORRECT because I watched like 2 week ago a documentary about the history of the nuclear energy from the first nuclear reactor (made by some Italian Scientist I canĀ“t remember the name right now) to the ChernobilĀ“s disaster


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bitJericho
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 00:22 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2007 00:23
Quote: "I mean, I saw one article that was 'ELTON JOHN IS GAY'"


Oh, and what's your point here? Elton John is gay. (seriously)


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hyrichter
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 01:13
Quote: "Seppuku, I would love to see a source saying that the safety controls were turned off and that the reactor was being pushed."


Summarized from Chernobyl 10 years on, published by the OECD NUCLEAR ENERGY AGENCY. I have the PDF if you want me to upload it.

Anyway, summarized:
On April 25, 1986, the Unit 4 reactor of the Chernobyl power plant was shut down for maintenance. During the shutdown, some of the workers decided to see if a slowing turbine could provide enough electricity to operate emergency equipment until the emergency diesel power could become operative. This test was to determine if cooling the reactor core could be continued in the loss of power. The test was carried out without exchange of information and coordination with the personnel in charge of operation and safety of the plant. The workers shut off the emergency core cooling system of the power plant and only used six to eight of the control rods. The control rods absorb extra neutrons and help keep the reactor from overheating. The safety requirement was that at least thirty control rods should always be used. The extra heat created by not using enough control rods caused an increase in coolant flow which reduced steam pressure. An automatic trip would have shut down the reactor, but it had been disabled for the test. The workers continued their test and reduced the flow of feed water to increase steam pressure. This caused there to be less coolant in the reactor and increased the steam pressure, creating a power surge one hundred times normal. This is when the accident happened.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 01:20
I'm all for nuclear cars personally.

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Satchmo
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 01:25
Yeah, because I'm sure the government wants us all driving nukes. Genius.

Your about to get pwned.
VR2
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 01:39
Quote: "I mean, I saw one article that was 'ELTON JOHN IS GAY'"


Elton John, gay? I thought David Furnish was his nephew!
bitJericho
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 01:44
Hyrichter, that passage appears to be leaving out a lot of information that is available in the Wikipedia entry. Of course, neither one of the articles are discrediting the other, just that yours appears to be missing some information, at least from what it seems without reading other sources.

Really, there's only so much time I can designate on researching chernobyl, so I'm going to leave it at that. Someone else can look into discrediting wikipedia which appears to be the rage these days.

I'll just leave you with this:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051214-5768.html

The only people I've seen disputing this is Britannica themselves, and then all the blogger hacks repeating it.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 02:53
Quote: "Yeah, because I'm sure the government wants us all driving nukes. Genius."

No, genius, you don't drive the nukes, you attach an array of them to your car and detonate them every time you want to travel a few hundred miles.

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Keo C
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 02:57 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2007 03:02
Quote: "The Chernobyl disaster was a tragic event, but remember, it was a pile of crap reactor in the middle of nowhere. It was gonna go sooner or later. "
No, It was really a testing accident. It exploded because they tested a too low of a speed or something like that. As hyrichter stated earlier. I don't think Nuclear power would be popular if it wasn't at all, to some degree stable.

Uhhhhhhh.... I forgot
Satchmo
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 02:58
Quote: "No, genius, you don't drive the nukes, you attach an array of them to your car and detonate them every time you want to travel a few hundred miles."


lol.

Your about to get pwned.
Chily Dog
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 03:14
Nuclear Cars...that takes me right into "Back to the Future"

The strange thing is that United Nuclear already has the system completely worked out, but apparently they have been fighting massive legal battles to put it on the market (the hydrogen generator using some compound the CPSC after).

I think the thing consumers are worried about is having to pay for the electricity to the make the gas, but 4 500$ solar panels (also sold on the website) will provide ample powder for the generator...
bitJericho
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2007 03:19
electricity I would hope would be far cheaper than gas... but if it requires a lot of electricity, then it may outweigh the benefit. But if 4 solar panels are enough power, then it would probably cost pennies a day to charge.

Considering I spend 2 dollars a day or more on gas, that's pretty good


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Mnemonix
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 04:20
I caused the chernobyl disaster when I used the reactor as a kettle

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Chily Dog
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 05:25
Little update

United Nuclear was featured on PBS (tv station): they did a really good report about how the government is suppressing armature scientists with increasing bans and regulation on even the most basic chemicals...worth a watch if ya got 10 to spare.

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/wiredscience/video/82-dangerous_science_video_.html
Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 11:25
Quote: "But just think for a moment, how much energy does it take to refine crude oil into the gasoline we use? Maybe it would actually be more efficient to create some huge hydrogen plants."


Heck not only energy, how much platinum does it take to refine our gasoline. There is a heck of a cost.

Plystire
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 12:05
The battle between the multi-trillion dollar oil companies and the visionaries who want better fuel options is not going to stop simply because some bloke said "Hey, I can run my car on water! Look, I have the plans and everything to prove it! Let's go get it patented and call it a day."

I have seen News broadcasts of water-powered cars since the early 60s, and plans/schematics for free energy systems dating back to the 1800s!

Guess what the oil campanies have to do when someone comes along saying this stuff? *puts on a black agent outfit and some cool looking shades* "Take the unusually vast amount of money that I am offering you, and shut up." TADA! Problem solved.

I personally would be a little edgy if my neighbor drove up to my house and said "HEY LOOK! I'm driving a nuclear powered car! The manufacturer said they've only had 1 in 10000 of these melt-down!" Yeah, ONLY 1 in 10000? If it goes public, guess how many there are gonna be? ... *lets a little bit of thinking occur* ... try billions.

I'm not trying to down anybody here (even if you may feel that way), I'm just saying, I don't care about water-powered cars, or nuclear powered cars. I want a car that can run by itself, that creates its fuel, and doesn't need to be filled up with anything! How would I accomplish this? How about hooking up a Perendev motor to an alternator to create electricity, and sticking it into an electric car! Now there's an idea.


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UnderLord
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 19:21
Sounds sweet if I had 10G's to blow I'd totally get it. Its unfortunate that I don't have that much money just laying around, but im sure if they have great success that it will be common place in about 10 years...

"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road."
Peter H
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Posted: 5th Oct 2007 21:01 Edited at: 5th Oct 2007 21:02
Quote: "he workers were performing an experiment with the reactor's safety systems."

in other words they turned them off and wanted to see if it would melt down

Quote: "and had fully withdrawn control rods"

ok, maybe i shouldn't call this idiotic... but... it's certainly not genius.

Quote: "caused by the design of the RBMK reactor and its control rods"

read: "for some reason when you take out the control rods there is a sudden increase in reactivity!"

another problem with the chernobyl reactor is that it was a positive feedback system (RBMK reactors have positive feedback systems)... whereas now any "modern" reactor will run with a negative feedback system.

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