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Geek Culture / Radiohead's newest album... What's it worth to you?

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 13th Oct 2007 23:01
Radiohead's new album, "In Rainbows," is now available for purchase. But there's a serious twist here... you can pay whatever you want to pay for it. 1 pound? 1,000 pounds? Completely up to you. There's no set price on the album whatsoever, so you can literally pay whatever you want to pay for it. On the website, there's a window where you pop in whatever value in pounds and pence that you feel like paying, and after checkout you download the full album. Is that awesome or what?

Now here's something else that's peculiar: I thought this idea up myself! Not that I told Radiohead to do it, or that Radiohead stole it, of course... I'd be honored if they did, as my Radiohead bear avatar would suggest, hehe. But I really did come up with this idea myself... ask anyone on the MISoft Studios team who recieved the "2007 State of the Studio Address," which outlines how MISoft Studios is performing and what games we're planning on developing in the 07-08 period. In that document, which a number of other TGC'ers related to our company in some form or another were privy to, I outlined something called "Cluckware." It's for a game that we're working on called "Flashlight Cluck's Awesome Game." Flashlight Cluck is a two-man "band" consisting of myself and my friend Colin, and the game will be about how we've been kidnapped by aliens, and the whole thing will be made in FPSC.

Anyway, "Cluckware," as the document quite clearly points out, is software that can be downloaded from our website, and people can pay whatever they think it's worth. If they want to play it as freeware, cool, if they want to pay for it, that's equally cool. We've done a few songs for it already but much of our time is devoted to our other games. But how ironic is that, lol, that we've been planning to release a game in the same format that Radiohead later released In Rainbows. Dunno, thought that was worth sharing with others for some reason .

bitJericho
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Posted: 13th Oct 2007 23:56
This is a really great idea. I would love to know how well that worked for them. I bet they could make much more money than they normally would through traditional online music downloads, as people who wouldn't normally buy their music or normally wouldn't pay 10 bucks to have it will be downloading.

I downloaded and contributed a pound

After listening to their music though.. It's not really my thing


The greatest multiplayer text adventure ever...
soapyfish
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 00:13
Some website gave them £500 for it. I'll try and find the link on digg.

Oolite
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 00:15
Quote: "Radiohead's newest album... What's it worth to you?"

The shipping cost.

Matt Rock
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 00:19
To a Radiohead fan this is a very, very good day, hehe. They've ditched the techno-ish sound in lieu for proper rock. It's sort of a cross between "OK Computer" and "Hail to the Thief," for those of you Radiohead fans wondering if they should buy the album. Track 2, "Bodysnatchers," is straight-up-in-your-face-cutoff-your-bits-with-rusty-scissors rock. And for those hardcore Radiohead fans amongst the TGC community (I know there's a small few of you), track 3, title "Nude," is actually a song you should already know and love... "Big Ideas (Don't Get Any)!" It's not for everyone though hehe, as Jerico pointed out. If you aren't a Radiohead fan you might not like this, but if you do like them, check this album out.

They sold 300,000 copies the first day and 1.2 million copies as of today, and that's just mostly some of the hardcore Radiohead fans... a proper in-stores CD comes out in December. Radiohead has a tendency to dominate the market every time they release a new album, so I'd expect this one to sell just as well as their previous albums have.

Drew Cameron
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 00:23 Edited at: 14th Oct 2007 00:26
Best tracks are Reckoner and 15 Step IMO.

Sounds like a drier version of Hail to the Thief to me.

I'm a Kid A man at heart though Matt Sorry. OK Computer - second best album

I've got to say, Body snatchers is mixed RUBISHLY! It's limiting the whole way through and it sounds TERRIBLE!

Matt Rock
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 00:29
hehe we've had this talk before, with me being such a dramatic OK Computer fan, hehe. And was it Jeku who was the "Pablo Honey & Bends Only" person? I can't remember, hehe.

Reckoner is awesome, but to be honest, I prefer the live version they recorded in Amsterdam a few years ago, a bit heavier and all that. I also dig 15-step, and House of Cards is pretty awesome too. It seems like Thom Yorke's solo album was a precursor for what was around the corner. Songs like "Black Swan" from that album kind of come through in some of the songs on In Rainbows. Not that it's surprising of course, hehe.

Drew Cameron
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 00:50 Edited at: 14th Oct 2007 00:51
I thought House of Cards was the weakest one actually!

I think 03:15 > on Reckoner is an example of Thom's incredible singing. It sounds so frustrated and yet smooth, he also has no problem with the high range.

Just a bit I've played a few times already.

Genius. Thoughts?

Matt Rock
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 02:11
That's how I felt about the song "All I Need," so moody, frustrated, and smooth. Like Black Swan on the solo album also... it's like a really happy song to kill puppies to, lol. Someone asked me what that song was like, that was the analogy I was forced into making .

Agreed, pure genius. In my opinion, this is the best album since OK Computer. It has the best of both worlds I think... Radiohead fans have for years been split into two factions, the OK Computer and Kid A groups, with a third separatist movement for their earlier stuff, hehe. This album brings the camps together in a beautiful way, I think.

Phaelax
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 03:21
I heard one of the new songs on the radio, I wasn't impressed and didn't really like it.


Jess T
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 05:10
I've seen this before;
Jane Siberry opens best artist's digital music store EVAR (November 2005).

It's a great idea, and I can see it taking off!

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 05:18
So I'm not quite the innovator I thought I was, hehe. You should have said something after you got that state of the studio email Jess hehe j/k.

I can't wait to release the Flashlight Cluck game. I'm wondering if this will work for games like it has for them? I can't assume customers in these industries are that much different really, in that if they like something they'd be willing to pay for it I mean.

Jess T
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 06:17
Quote: "You should have said something after you got that state of the studio email Jess"


Well, I don't know of anyone doing it for games, so you are still an innovator in that regard

Quote: "I can't assume customers in these industries are that much different really"


Be careful with that assumption.
You have to take into consideration alot of things to do with the indie game market - Most people who are involved are younger, which generally means that they have less money. However, because they're involved in the indie scene, they could be said to be willing to look upon a pay-what-you-like ware game as 'giving back' to the scene.
It's a bit of a double edged sword, unfortunately.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 07:10
Quote: "Well, I don't know of anyone doing it for games, so you are still an innovator in that regard"

Works for me, hehe, I'll take it

Quote: "It's a bit of a double edged sword, unfortunately."

That's the main reason we're not working on that now, and opted to do a few other games first. I don't want to work my tail off on a "cluckware" game and end up with two or three people paying $1, while 5,000 people just play it as freeware, hehe. Well, I wouldn't really care either way I suppose, if I really cared I'd just charge some proper value, hehe. But I dunno... to compare MISoft to what's probably the biggest, most successful rock band in modern times is definitely a stretch, lol, so I don't want to look at their numbers with any sort of inspiration

Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 10:12
sort of what donationware (or whatever its called) is. So matt as a big fan what was it worth to you?

Oraculaca
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 12:43
I stopped listening after The Bends. Might have a listen to this one though.

Matt Rock
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Posted: 14th Oct 2007 18:53 Edited at: 14th Oct 2007 18:54
2:45 on All I Need. Wow. I can't help but play this song over and over again. It's so simple and darkly melodic, but then they drop the clutch at 2:45 and hurdle you into a wall. That's what I love about these guys... they're heavy, heavier than any other band I know of, but in an unconventional way. Because they substitute volume with quantity. Radiohead are like the music industry's quantum physicists in that regard. And yes, I had to fight with myself to keep from making a Steven Hawkings reference about a pig in a cage on antibiotics .

Quote: "So matt as a big fan what was it worth to you?"

I only ended up paying £1.10 for it. I intended to pay £10, but a friend pointed out "hey, you've liked every album less and less since OK Computer," so I paid £1.10 with the stipulation that if I liked it, I'd buy it again for £8.90, and if I didn't like it, it would be a "protest payment," lol. And I don't like it... I absolutely love it. So Maybe I should just pay £10 anyway, lol. So I'm definitely going to end up buying the same album twice now, and it basically comes down to what my girlfriend says I'm allowed to spend on it. And then in December I'll be getting the special boxed CD version of course, for however much that'll cost, so at the end of the day I'll have ended up spending something like $30-$40 on this album . Quite the racket, Mr. Yorke .

Those Radiohead fans amongst my group of friends flooded my Yahoo! Instant Messenger yesterday (leading to an embarassing YIM accident while talking with Agent Dink, lol), and it looks like £5 has been a pretty popular number from fans, and £7 was also paid quite a bit. A pretty tiny "focus group" in all, but I'd love to know what the public at large has been paying for this album so far. I was surprised by how many of my American friends had no idea that the British Pound was worth two American Dollars... kind of scary, hehe. So I may have inadvertantly stopped a few people from paying £10 to £15 because I was quick to explain the currency rate to them... my bad Radiohead.

Quote: "I stopped listening after The Bends. Might have a listen to this one though."

I suggest you give it a try, but I'm willing to bet it won't be your "thing," hehe. I think the album is a definite turnaround back toward rock, and some of the songs have that arpeggio sound they were so famous for in the Pablo Honey/ Bends era, but all-in-all it's been 12 years since Bends, so it's hard to revert back to "normal rock" after over a decade of experimental stuff.

Drew Cameron
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Posted: 15th Oct 2007 13:01
Radiohead is an aquired taste.

The more you listen to it, the more it opens up. I think that's fair to say.

Eventually, at some point, you finally "get" ALL their work.

Van B
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Posted: 15th Oct 2007 13:15
Really if you've paid £1.10 - then that's probably what they'd get if you bought it in a store, so really your paying them the going rate!.

I suppose it depends on how much other stuff you buy besides albums, I have all of Pearl Jam's albums and the DVD's and books, hell I bought Ten about 5 times - so when it comes to downloads I don't feel at all guilty. Music is not something an artist can put a high value on these days, they make up for it with DVD's and gigs and stuff, so pay less so they have to do more to make ends meet. If it means they have to do more gigs to make money because their fans don't pay much for albums, then everyone wins.

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Drew Cameron
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Posted: 15th Oct 2007 13:24 Edited at: 15th Oct 2007 13:24
I agree with VanB

GatorHex
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Posted: 15th Oct 2007 13:41 Edited at: 15th Oct 2007 13:42
I don't like their music so I wouldn't even waste my bandwidth on it

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Jess T
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Posted: 15th Oct 2007 14:23
Quote: "If it means they have to do more gigs to make money because their fans don't pay much for albums, then everyone wins."


Having helped organize 4 music festivals in the last 3 years, I can confidently say that if a band has good music, it means jack-all about their performance. And, if they don't have the performance to back up the music, then to hell with 'em, they don't deserve to be popular enough to have their music downloaded nor bought.

There are some who normally I wouldn't listen to (hip-hop, etc), but at the festivals we have to cater for all - The best group was a Hip-Hop group (Blue Juice) who put on a freikin awesome show - so I got their Albumn.

Personally, I think if you've viewed their music in a live situation, you have the right to own it for play-back. Some people have perfect photographic memories - they can play it back as much as they want, why can't I?

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Phaelax
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Posted: 15th Oct 2007 16:07
Quote: "hell I bought Ten about 5 times "


3 times here, first one was on tape and it got ruined.


Van B
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Posted: 15th Oct 2007 16:17
Yeah, these days I buy an album, rip it, then it goes into storage - I mean some bands actually spend time on their album covers and stuff (esp PJ) - my favourite has to be the Vitalogy album as it's like some old encyclopedia, the only thing it's missing is that old book smell. I still like to have an actual CD, but I only really listen to MP3's, I'm a hoarder.

I suppose that might be where I get my attitude about downloading music - if your not actually getting anything but the right to download a song, then it has a very small value, I'd much rather spend money on tangible things. Maybe Radiohead should have had a limit, say £10, if you spend £10 you get sent a proper CD. I like to think my collection will extend beyond the life of my PC.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 15th Oct 2007 22:24 Edited at: 15th Oct 2007 22:28
Quote: "Eventually, at some point, you finally "get" ALL their work."

So, so true. And they're only one of maybe two or three bands in the world like that. Their music has the equivalent of easter eggs, sort of like a video game. And every time you listen to an album, one leaps out at you. A really famous example of one, the line "It's gonna be a glorious day, I feel my luck could change" in the song "Lucky" on the album OK Computer. There's so much going on in the song that when he slaps you in the face with a vocal hammer, you might not notice it the first time you hear the song. And Kid A is absolutely RIDDLED with them... you can listen to that album a few dozen times without catching everything.

But they aren't for everyone... some people like their music more "straight-forward," and don't care to observe every note. It's quite common to find philharmonics performing Radiohead's music alongside classical works, like these people, performing Radiohead, Ravel, and Beethoven in the same show. You won't find any philharmonics performing System of a Down or 50-Cent, because they write music instead of composing it. I remember a reviewer once saying (sic) "The only thing I don't like about Radiohead is that it takes 20+ hours to listen to their albums."

If you only take them at face value, or listen to one single song and base your opinion on that, you're missing the boat entirely. OK Computer, Kid A, and In Rainbows shouldn't be listened to one song at a time... you have to listen to the full album to truly appreciate its perfection. But again, some people just aren't into music as art, and prefer music as entertainment. But if you really listen to it, it'll take you through the full range of possible emotions. They're the only band in the world, that I know of, that can make a listener wish they had their security blanket from their early childhood to protect them from the world's evils. And unlike some bands and artists that try to be cool in that sense, by appearing "evil" or whatever, Radiohead aren't actually trying... just composing. No on-stage personas with face paint or piles of headless bat corpses at the base of the microphone stand to achieve that effect. Just an arsenal of homemade instruments and a whole heck of a lot of talent, courage, and chemistry.

At the end of the day, the reason this album is getting so much attention from the media at large is because every time Radiohead releases a new album, the media claims it's going to "save rock music" from itself; Save music fans from the dreaded intellectual drought produced by bands and artists like Yellowcard and Britney Spears, bands that sound exactly the same live as they do on their CD, have no "message," and play to the record executive's every whim. Radiohead is one of the few popular groups in the world, like Beck and Pearl Jam and U2, that retain full 100% artistic control over their albums and can't be told what to do, so they're expected to make music good again. And with some of the most highly acclaimed albums in the history of recorded music, like OK Computer, which literally *is* the most highly acclaimed album in history, the media really lays the pressure on them to act as saviors. That's why Radiohead almost breaks up every time they put out a new album. I want the media to just shut up and let us enjoy their music this time around. If Britney Spears releases a new CD in a few months, who cares? And why should it fall in Radiohead's lap to somehow "stop" that from happening?

jrowe
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Posted: 16th Oct 2007 00:58
Bah! Kid A, Amnesiac and Hail to the Thief are their best albums. I just can't pick between them. This one... I'm not sure about it yet, I'm not sure I get it. Maybe I'm just not on the right wavelength at the moment for a new Radiohead album, or maybe it's because I prefer some of the old live versions of the songs.
Arpeggi sounds better to me at the Ether fest recording (I prefer the slower strings to the faster drums). All I need sounds better than it did live but it's still not great. Nude sounds GORGEOUS though, especially the introduction. Other songs sound OK, but haven't crept into my soul yet like the last 3 albums did. I'll need the bonus disk with Bangers and Mash. Then everything will be OK.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 16th Oct 2007 01:11
Nude is known amongst the Radiohead b-siders as Big Ideas (Don't Get Any). It's an older song and the live versions made in the past are favorites found in the larger Radiohead catalogs. Reckoner is another classic Radiohead song, but when they did it live it sounded nothing at all like the song on In Rainbows... it was raunchy garage rock. Still a great version though. There are a number of Radiohead B-Sides and rare tracks that people have been crying over because there's no good studio version, like Reckoner and Big Ideas, so it's pretty cool that they did these. Other rare songs that I'd love to hear a studio version of include Lift, Banana Cove, and of course, the rarest of all the Radiohead songs... Man-O-War, aka Big Boots. I'd kill to see a proper studio recording of that, and they almost made one (watch the film "Meeting People is Easy" about Radiohead's "Demons" tour and you can see them trying to record it, prior to giving up on the song entirely).

And wow, you don't like All I Need? I love that song! I totally think it's going to go down in history as the next Exit Music... imo, it's just as gorgeous. I just hope they don't make a single out of it.

Speaking of which, what songs are singles on this album? I haven't seen any videos on the On Demand stations, and I've been boycotting radio since I quit my radio show a million years ago, so it definitely has me curious. I'd assume Bodysnatchers would be a single, and maybe Jigsaw Puzzle.

Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 16th Oct 2007 10:14
Korn did Creep when I saw them on Family Values this summer, they followed it up with Another Brick in the Wall II, it was an interesting break in the set.

Drew Cameron
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Posted: 16th Oct 2007 15:35
Did you see the Unplugged version of Creep, Hobgoblin Lord? Great stuff!

demons breath
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Posted: 16th Oct 2007 16:00
Quote: "Really if you've paid £1.10 - then that's probably what they'd get if you bought it in a store, so really your paying them the going rate!."



If you bought it in the store, they wouldn't have financed the recording themselves - the reason they get such a small cut is that the label wants a return on the investment - they often pay for recording, distribution and advertising so they need to make a reasonable profit as investing in this sort of thing is quite risky and it's quite easy to make a loss, therefore if they didn't get quite a large cut then there would be a lot fewer record labels (at least of the size there are today)

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 17th Oct 2007 22:53
Quote: "Korn did Creep when I saw them on Family Values this summer, they followed it up with Another Brick in the Wall II, it was an interesting break in the set."

I'm the anti-cover guy, hehe. I hate it when bands cover other songs, even on the very rare occasion that Radiohead does covers live ("Nobody Does it Better" by Carly Simon (I think) is a popular b-side cover of theirs... but Thom Yorke has more range than Simon by a long shot, hehe). I've heard a lot of bands cover Radiohead, and Creep seems to be a popular song to try. Richard Cheese and U2 both did Creep in proper recordings.

But hearing that Korn did it doesn't make me angry, not since learning that John Mayer did a version of Kid A, and then hearing John Mayer fans claim that JOHN MAYER WROTE IT! UGH! As if he's even remotely that talented! Hearing that marked one of the very few instances in my life where I seriously contemplated murder and had to talk myself down from that by watching several episodes of "Oz" lol.

Quote: "If you bought it in the store, they wouldn't have financed the recording themselves - the reason they get such a small cut is that the label wants a return on the investment"

How much do typical recording sessions cost these days? You'd think in this digital age the prices would have dropped dramatically without the need for physical mediums like ADAT, DAT, or the premordial (but ever so awesome-sounding) proper analog reels. It'd be interesting to know how much the typical album costs to record in comparison with 10-20 years ago.

demons breath
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 04:50
Quote: "I hate it when bands cover other songs"


Some covers can be really good though, provided they are changed enough and given the band's own distinct flavour.

Quote: "How much do typical recording sessions cost these days?"


While it's true that you can probably record your own music with equipment totalling less than £500 major labels are going to spend significantly more. I couldn't find any real info, although I did find something saying that the White Stripes recorded something for an incredibly low £4000 (although if you listen to their stripped-back, raw sound, it probably takes a lot less modern technology to record it, as they have an old-school tone about their music from what I've heard)

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Jeku
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 09:40
Some covers are better than their originals.

Good Morning Starshine by Serena Ryder, for example.

Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 21:36
heck some producers command upwards of 500k for an album. When you buy an album say Circut City for $12, they just made $5 on it the distributer made $1 on it so we are down to $6 for the record company. They need to recover the costs of advertising, production, recording, and music videos, many bands do not see a cent till they sell a ton of copies.

David R
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Posted: 18th Oct 2007 22:24
I like Nude and All I need. Most of the tracks are definitely what I'd describe as 'growers' though, so needs more listening...


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 19th Oct 2007 04:39
When I was in my last band a few years back, we did our recordings analog with reel-to-reel and dumped the individual tracks into Cool Edit to clean it up and finalize them. The total cost of recording the full album was $150, spent almost entirely in 3/4" reels. But it sounded amateur of course, since we were using our own equipment and doing it in our own studio, which didn't have adequate soundproofing. And still I thought it was "cheating" somehow to use Cool Edit for the mix, lol. It made me feel dirty, like I needed to take a shower and wash the pain away. I'm just not into digital recording I guess, which is hilarious in a way considering I make video games . But eh, anything beats splicing reels... what a dismal process that can be. I just think it sounds better. I like that gritty sound, and try as digital may, it can't duplicate it. Bah, at the end of the day though, I'm just getting old, lol.

Quote: "Some covers are better than their originals."

Yeah, I can agree with that. I guess it's that the bad covers always inject themselves into my memory and block out the good ones. Try being a Radiohead fan and having a civil discussion with a Deftones fan, I dare you lol. On the Deftone's 1997 album "Around the Fur," they have a song called "Be Quiet and Drive." The exact same song is a Radiohead b-side called "Get in your Car and Drive." Deftones fans claim Radiohead must have covered it, which is funny, since the Radiohead version came out in 1996 . It's stuff like that that grinds my gears, when people take credit for things they didn't write, or almost as bad, when people give credit where credit isn't due.

Another really aweful example of a cover that made my stomache turn... a long time ago, Nirvana did an "Unplugged" special on MTV, like a number of other bands did at the time. Their set had a few covers in it, but the most notable, for me anyway, was the song "The Man who Sold the World." Anyone familiar with older music will be quick to tell you that this is a David Bowie cover. I almost got into a bloody, brutal fist fight with a Nirvana fan back when the CD version of the show was released who insisted, repeatedly and annoyingly, that Nirvana wrote the song. This made me mad, but when he started calling Bowie... well, names I can't repeat on TGC... I exploded and almost attacked him. I have a really short fuse when it comes to dissing the music I like, lol, or at least I did as a teenager. Anyway, I think those bad covers floating around keep me from fully appreciating the good ones, because of how outrageous they make me .

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Location: Surrey, UK
Posted: 19th Oct 2007 12:28
Didn't the CD Version of Unplugged have something on quite obvious saying that it was written by David Bowie?

The 'Best of' CD I have of Nirvana stuff makes it quite apparent.

http://jamesmason01.googlepages.com/index.htm
Matt Rock
19
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Joined: 5th Mar 2005
Location: Binghamton NY USA
Posted: 19th Oct 2007 23:43
Yeah, but some people aren't that smart I guess. I'm pretty sure Cobaine actually said it on the microphone right before the song, something to the effect of "this is a Bowie song." Maybe my frustration isn't with the act of covering music itself, but with the lack of inspired brainpower amongst some humans, lol.

Oraculaca
21
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Joined: 6th Jan 2003
Location: Scotland
Posted: 20th Oct 2007 13:35
I thought that and the meat puppets covers were quite good actually.
Much better than Lulu's attempt and that was with Bowie helping her.

If you want a god awfull cover then it has to be Comfortably Numb being murdered by the Scissor sisters. Pathetic

Mattman
21
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Joined: 5th Jun 2003
Location: East Lansing
Posted: 20th Oct 2007 22:50
I much preferred Videotape live. I still think its a good song and the recording on In Rainbows is well above listenable, I enjoyed the driving drumbeat from last summer's tour...

Why make sense when you could make brownies?
demons breath
21
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Joined: 4th Oct 2003
Location: Surrey, UK
Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 17:44
I prefer the Pendulum remix of Voodoo People to the original. And remixes are basically covers. The Agony Scene version of Paint It Black is better (IMO) than the original as well...

http://jamesmason01.googlepages.com/index.htm
TKF15H
21
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Joined: 20th Jul 2003
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Posted: 22nd Oct 2007 18:48
Quote: "But there's a serious twist here... you can pay whatever you want to pay for it. 1 pound? 1,000 pounds? Completely up to you."

How's this different from donationware (other than the name, of course)?

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