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Geek Culture / Microsoft tricking y ou to buy DX10 (Crysis on XP)

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 13:07
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Well, that's an understandable reason not to use it. But I still haven't found a bug that hasn't been fixed. <Granted I don't have a sound card so I can't test out that MP3 thing>


Cheers,

-naota

"I'd newbie slap here, but I've no idea how far I'd need slap before they'd come back with a clue." - VanB
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 14:18
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XP has kinda hit a peak that Vista will take years to reach. It's fast. It's as stable as a biscuit from a school canteen. It's also got the biggest compatibility of any Windows out in my opinion. DX10? I don't care. HDR? Keep it. It gets on my nerves that everything has a glow round it like I'm wearing dirty glasses. Volumetric effects sound nice, but is this not a throwback to voxels or something? Seriously, though, why would you want a super detailed grenade explosion that takes up 50mb of RAM and ties up all four cores of your overkill PC? If it's in the least realistic, the explosion itself will be around for less than a second, and if the game is in the least enjoyable, you won't care anyhow.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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Deathead
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 15:07
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Nex: Hmm... How do you know that? Do you own Vista? This is what I'm annoyed about people say all this stuff bad about vista but they don't OWN vista. Vista hasn't been giving me errors nor is it as bad people said it was. So my oppinion if you owned vista then you can write a review then what you made out of the blue. Vista is fast and stable. And DX10 is great for next gen. By next year XP will be dead because more games will be coming over to DirectX10.

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Luciferia
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 15:34
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you might as well run it on dx10 because so many more games and fps x10 are coming out for that.
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 16:32
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I've used Vista, and I've tried to install some older games on it. Some ran fine, others ran with graphical glitches, and some crashed. Others hung on online or LAN play. It is pretty stable, but incomparable to XP.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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David R
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 16:33
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Quote: "By next year XP will be dead because more games will be coming over to DirectX10"


I thoroughly doubt that XP will be totally dead.

I think that's the main other thing that troubled me; after I had issues with Vista, going back to XP wasn't a hard descision. Sure, Vista is nice, but there was nothing really critically 'cool' ('killer-feature' wise) that stopped me from going back.

With XP, it looked amazing, it ran extremely fast, and was extremely stable. Yeah, Vista is very pretty and very stable, but the latter, in my opinion, isn't such a drastic change vs. XP - because XP is stable enough for every day use.


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Keo C
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 17:11
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Quote: "LOL! I think I have OpenBSD on a disk somewhere.."

Well join the corner, the cookies and source code are over there.


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Lucifer
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 18:08
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Quote: "Eventually everyone's gonna use DirectX 10"


Yes! *bows down for dx 10 and call of duty 4*

Lord Voldemort needs no signature!
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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 23:56
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I bet Cysis is actually programmed in the Direct X 9ext SDK that MS released a while back, given how long games like these are in development for. Plus they've got to maintain both Vista and XP support, so the easiest thing form their point of view is likely to program the thing in Direct X 9 then slap on a few extra effects and shaders written in Direct X 10 or 9ext. My money's on 9ext


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gamebird
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Posted: 11th Nov 2007 03:21
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Quote: "Vista is just not worth it at the moment. I'm not sure why Microsoft changed the file architecture, I think it was to improve work flow or some rubbish, but they just screwed every thing up for current software.

X10 is not worth it either, because you can basically get the same effects in X9. It's just one big marketing scheme."


I agree completely. The main reason they change things, as I see it, is because it creates the illusion that they are improving thier products. They make something perfect and then ruin it so they can make it perfect again. Look at IE7.
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David R
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Posted: 11th Nov 2007 09:38
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Quote: "Yes! *bows down for dx 10 and call of duty 4*"


I highly doubt COD4 will use DX10, seeing as though it runs on PS3, 360 etc. it wouldn't really make much sense.


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GatorHex
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Posted: 11th Nov 2007 14:32 Edited at: 11th Nov 2007 14:38
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I've run Lost Planet in DX10 and DX9 I couldn't see any reason to use DX10.

DX10 is realy just a con to make us all buy a new OS. There's no reason they couldn't release it on XP.

Vista does have better security though, at least the guest account can't log in

Something is wrong with it's inbuilt zip feature it runs realy slow. Had to install WinRar

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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Deathead
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Posted: 11th Nov 2007 15:00
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Quote: "DX10 is realy just a con to make us all buy a new OS."

To buy a great OS. But why keep XP when you can have Vista which will handle more games in the future?

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GatorHex
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Posted: 11th Nov 2007 15:12 Edited at: 11th Nov 2007 15:14
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Yes you HAVE to buy Vista because it is THE ONLY OS to have DX10 which will be the future of gaming.

But I suspect this was done on purpose to force the move to Vista and not because XP couldn't handle DX10.

They also kept XP at the same price as Vista so there realy is no economic advantage for PC builders not to choose Vista. You will have it wether you like it or not!

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Raven
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Posted: 11th Nov 2007 19:25
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Quote: "I highly doubt COD4 will use DX10, seeing as though it runs on PS3, 360 etc. it wouldn't really make much sense."


Well Call of Duty 4 does have a DirectX10 runtime
So doubt all you want, but seriously there are more DirectX10 owners and users than the console market in total.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 11th Nov 2007 19:41
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@GatorHex
There are new video drivers which, from my understanding, attempts utilizing the graphics card as much as possible, giving the Windows GDI a 3D-Accelerated boost.

DirectX 10 relies on this new video driver specifically. Doing this will allow them to stop worrying about other legacy video driver support.

I'm not arguing with your use of XP, rather the statement that "There's no reason why DirectX 10 couldn't have run on XP".


Cheers,

-naota

"I'd newbie slap here, but I've no idea how far I'd need slap before they'd come back with a clue." - VanB
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 12th Nov 2007 02:45
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Quote: "i got about 2gb ram with an amd x2 4400+ and a 512 mb 6600gt and the game looks beautiful but is just playable at about 17-25 frames"


Wow. I can't stand a game unless it's AT LEAST 50 frames per second.

I sure can tell the difference though, when looking at the DX9 and DX10 comparison shots...

3D world-vegetating tool!
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David R
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Posted: 12th Nov 2007 17:51 Edited at: 12th Nov 2007 18:04
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Quote: "Well Call of Duty 4 does have a DirectX10 runtime
So doubt all you want, but seriously there are more DirectX10 owners and users than the console market in total."


Dunno about COD4 using DX10, as I haven't used the demo; and the only thing regarding it I could find on the net was the quote "Some mistook the game's graphics to be DirectX 10 based, but it is stated that the graphics use DirectX 9"

It may well have a DX10 facility for PC though, I dunno.

The latter statement though... I sincerely doubt that. You're saying that the amount of people with Vista AND DX10 compatible GPUs is more than 32.16 million? (That's the combined units sold of 360 + Wii + PS3)


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n008
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Posted: 12th Nov 2007 21:47
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It doesn't really matter. DirectX is outdated technology anyway. The only reason i dual-boot is because of DBpro. The world needs to move to OpenGL!

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 00:35
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Quote: "It doesn't really matter. DirectX is outdated technology anyway. The only reason i dual-boot is because of DBpro. The world needs to move to OpenGL!"

Well, it's quite obvious you don't know anything about DirectX and are a Linux or Mac fan-boy who is likely to hate Microsoft because someone else doesn't or because you found a few "bugs" in their software.

Let me explain for you that DirectX is not outdated technology. A) It doesn't provide just graphics, it provides music/audio, networking, input, and graphics. I heard rumors they were going to implement physics into their SDK as well. B) Last I checked the latest release of DirectX was November 2007, when was the last release of OpenGL? C) OpenGL is ONLY graphics, which (in all honesty) is extremely slower than Direct3D if you don't know how to program for it, and requires you to do more than you have to with OpenGL to be able to support the same speed boost you would get with Direct3D. D) I don't think OpenGL has shaders and such built in and is only provided via the ARB as an extension, where as Direct3D has shaders built in and was (From my understanding) the first to have shader programming available to the programmers.

Cheers,

-naota

"I'd newbie slap here, but I've no idea how far I'd need slap before they'd come back with a clue." - VanB
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Keo C
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 04:13
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I agree with you Aaron.


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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 05:05
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Really? That's surprising. Literally

Cheers,

-naota

"I'd newbie slap here, but I've no idea how far I'd need slap before they'd come back with a clue." - VanB
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Raven
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 06:31
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Quote: "The latter statement though... I sincerely doubt that. You're saying that the amount of people with Vista AND DX10 compatible GPUs is more than 32.16 million? (That's the combined units sold of 360 + Wii + PS3)"


According to the Microsoft system survey (which is sent each time you do a system index after changing drivers and such), there are close to 25million DirectX10 cards being used right now.

Alright so not quite 32million, but still blows away any of the console markets; and that's DirectX10 only, let alone the number of DirectX9.0c owners. Vista itself is currently being used by over 100million but not sure how much more, the press release on it was quite vague.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 18:00
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You've got to ask, though - how many of those X10 cards are going to be playing games? I know several [strikethrough]idiots[/strikethrough] people who have bought a top of the range laptop or desktop and then proceed to use it for homework.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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Corky
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 03:35 Edited at: 15th Nov 2007 03:37
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To all the people saying that there is tons of bugs, I would like you to name some, cause I haven't had one bug or anything at all go wrong on Vista. Just like some of you said, of course no OS is going to be perfect. Lets say Xp was perfect, then why would they come out with Vista, there would be no point and they would make no sales. This didnt happen yet though, because Xp isn't perfect. Now im not accusing anyone of actually saying that it just seems like your trying to get it out that way.

Its just like the 360 and the Ps3, there is Playsta**** fanboys out there and then there is all the 360 geeks(I didnt know what to call them). Now personally I own a 360, but I have no problem with the Ps3, and the only big reason I got the 360 over the Ps3 is because of the price at the time. Is there that many bad things about the Ps3. Now I know a whole bunch of people are going to come out and say this and that about how the 360 is better, but just think, Look at all the people that have the 3 rings of death on the 360(luckily I haven't got it yet.)

In the end, some of us worry about the smallest little remarks that a professional said or something, but if you were to actually go and use that OS or gaming system etc. you probably wouldn't even notice that small little bug or whatever it is.

I think this thread should just be locked because its just getting out of control and its not even on topic really anymore, and me myself kind of caused some of it. So Sorry.

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GatorHex
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 03:41 Edited at: 15th Nov 2007 04:07
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I just downloaded the Crysis demo and even on my modest system it ran smooth as silk (Vista 32bit, 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo OC, 8600GT OC)



I've not managed to get past the speedboat part yet

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer

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GatorHex
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 04:10 Edited at: 15th Nov 2007 04:10
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Running in full screen mode seems smoother than windows mode. Had to go windows though to grab this screenie



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Corky
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 04:13
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Ahh looking pretty good, but not as good as I thought it would have looked. Like people said they could have used X10 a little better. This kind of reminds me of Far-Cry, of course it is the same engine and creators though. Im not really impressed with this game because it looks like they took some textures straight from Far-Cry. Not really sure though?

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dark coder
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 05:44
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I think it looks good:





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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 10:25
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@Corky - If you want to be impressed check out real screenshots of Crysis on a kickass machine. Some of the settings appear photo-realistic.

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Mr Makealotofsmoke
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 12:16
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http://www.crysis-online.com/Media/Screenshots/Screenshots/ps_runway-06.jpg

example

YAY, We Got Our MUSIC BOARD!!!!
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Roxas
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 12:39
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Or the windows xp very high quality hack shots

What was actually the point of this thread!

[center]

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David R
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 17:37 Edited at: 15th Nov 2007 17:50
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Quote: "To all the people saying that there is tons of bugs, I would like you to name some, cause I haven't had one bug or anything at all go wrong on Vista. Just like some of you said, of course no OS is going to be perfect. Lets say Xp was perfect, then why would they come out with Vista, there would be no point and they would make no sales. This didnt happen yet though, because Xp isn't perfect. Now im not accusing anyone of actually saying that it just seems like your trying to get it out that way.
"


- Vista thrashes my hard disk for no end, for no foreseeable reason. Indexing is off, and Vista rates the HD as a 5.1, so I fail to see why

- Vista seems to hate my net connection. If my router turns on and connects prior to my machine turning on, I need to disable and re-enable my network card in order for my computer to connect correctly to the internet. This doesn't happen in XP.

- As noted earlier, a bizarre, and still unfixed bug, causes MP3 playback to harm network performance. Never exactly been able to attribute a network performance problem to it, but it's still a bug.

- Basic file operations are very slow. I really don't understand this one to be honest. For some reason a copy and paste can take like 5 seconds for a small file. Clearly, this doesn't occur in XP.

- Certain applications, when installed, have startup apps with them. Some of them are blocked by Vista because they are incompatible; which is fine. However, a specific app (something to do with Installshield) had no actual method to remove it from the start up list. Which mean I had to keep pressing "Ok, block" or something along those lines, each time I started up

Quote: " because Xp isn't perfect"

That's the thing though; Vista had lots of little imperfections that irritated me, not massive flaws. And versus XP, which essentially is as perfect as Windows had been so far. So XP won hands down.

I disliked XP at first, but didn't go back to 98, because XP had so many cool things I liked. Not the same with Vista though; I can't think of one feature, barring the superficial pointless 3d stuff, that I liked, and cared about enough to stick with Vista versus XP. So I went back to XP.


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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 19:12
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Quote: "modest"
Quote: "(Vista 32bit, 2.5Ghz Core 2 Duo OC, 8600GT OC)"

Modest? What planet are you on? That's pretty good!
My PC? 1.8GHz single core with no overclock, 512Mb of DDR200 and an old AGP 8x Nvidia 6200.


Since the other one was scaring you guys so much...
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 21:42
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@David R
I haven't found any of the HD bugs, though I did notice that file copying/pasting does seem to take a bit longer, but only 1.5:1.0 <1.5 being vista and 1.0 being XP... And really it doesn't bug me because deleting files on Vista seems to work quicker than XP.>

As for the startup problem, might I suggest removing the program itself? There are programs available, which come bundled with Vista, that allow you to remove programs from start up. I believe Windows Defender is one of those programs... Keeping in mind I have Windows Vista Home Premium, Home Basic *could* be different.

As for the net connection problem, Vista works like a charm for my Comcast Broadband internet. And <When I required wireless internet>, it worked like a charm for my broadband wireless internet router (Wireless-G Broadband Router Model: WRT54G).


Cheers,

-naota

"I'd newbie slap here, but I've no idea how far I'd need slap before they'd come back with a clue." - VanB
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David R
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 21:50 Edited at: 15th Nov 2007 21:52
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Quote: "As for the startup problem, might I suggest removing the program itself? There are programs available, which come bundled with Vista, that allow you to remove programs from start up. I believe Windows Defender is one of those programs..."


I have Home Premium also. That was the whole problem; Defender was blocking it, but couldn't remove it. The ability to remove the program from the startup list just did nothing. And it wouldn't allow anything else to remove it from the list (e.g. spybot, which I tried).

And removing the program itself (i.e. uninstalling it) would remove the app it came bundled with, so that was out of the question. The problem here is namely why the heck it needs to warn me that it's blocked on startup every single time I logged on...

Quote: "
As for the net connection problem, Vista works like a charm for my Comcast Broadband internet. And <When I required wireless internet>, it worked like a charm for my broadband wireless internet router (Wireless-G Broadband Router Model: WRT54G)."


Yeah, great. What am I supposed to say to that? I mean, not meaning to sound rude, but why do I care how well it works on XYZ's computer... the point is, it is flawed. The so called 'perfect OS' is a steaming piece of turd.


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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 22:22
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For the startup program, just copy the application it came bundled with to a separate folder then uninstall it. Otherwise, get help at a Windows Vista forum or something.

Quote: "eah, great. What am I supposed to say to that?"

Well generally you would know what hardware to get if you can. Hence why I provided the model number.

Quote: "The so called 'perfect OS' is a steaming piece of turd."

That's simply your opinion, and nothing more. If that's how you feel, then that's how you feel, but don't expect people not to argue with what was said. Besides, it's still better than XP for me, and definitely better than the older versions of Windows. It has more features, and works great without the service pack. Once the service pack comes out it'll be even better. A lot of people who used Vista during the beta testing program didn't like it, well, that was a beta and not what it is currently. So I hope no one makes judgement of Vista based on that, as that would just be silly. Not directed at you David R, btw... Just in general.


Cheers,

-naota

"I'd newbie slap here, but I've no idea how far I'd need slap before they'd come back with a clue." - VanB
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