Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / How much would you charge?!

Author
Message
Butter fingers
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Mar 2006
Location: Mecca
Posted: 9th Nov 2007 20:29
Ok, so this is a hypothetical one... I just need some feedback here, and please keep you're responses reasonable and realistic, as I need to judge a pitch from the response.

Here's the question :

How much would you charge to code a simple racing game? Media creation etc is external from this budget, I'm just talkin straight source code.
The final licence will not be exclusive to the buyer.

It's gotta handle one player, you can race a few AI cars, or do "best lap" thing, with a ghost car.

Any input would be greatly appreciated, although I would prefer it if you already use DB, as this is what it will be created in.

Insert Name Here
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Mar 2007
Location: Worcester, England
Posted: 9th Nov 2007 20:33
Not much, but that's cuz my programming is terrible rihgt now.

Nya!
Well, yes but - wait, what?
Zombie 20
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Nov 2006
Location: Etters, PA
Posted: 9th Nov 2007 20:48
If you are known for giving out good source, then I'd say either 5-10 dollars but nothing more.

Dr. Mannete- OMG It's Zombie's voice, it's so Suave!

Zotoaster
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Dec 2004
Location: Scotland
Posted: 9th Nov 2007 20:49
For a whole game? Atleast £50 - I have to start making some money from this

"It's like floating a boat on a liquid that I don't know, but I'm quite happy to drink it if I'm thirsty enough" - Me being a good programmer but sucking at computers
Butter fingers
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Mar 2006
Location: Mecca
Posted: 9th Nov 2007 20:53 Edited at: 9th Nov 2007 21:03
5-10 bucks?!

Are you serious?

I'm not saying this is for like a friend or something... lets get a little more in depth:

For the past year I have been working for a company teaching FPSC. They now want to up their game and start working on DBpro, but they need prototype games created, so that the students aren't writing stuff from scratch.

That's where coding this racing game comes in.

I'm thinking this is going to take at least 5 days to code, so I think $10 would work out at around .... 22c an hour. WHich is crazy. There are 5 year old chinese kids getting paid more than that to put Nike Shoes together.

I don't mean to sound harsh... I've been selling 3D work for a while now, and I know what kind of prices to charge, but selling code is new to me, I can't see how 5 days of work, and the IP are only worth $10.

Am I wrong?

Edit, £50 sounds more reasonable. Bear in mind, I'm only going to make one sale of this code, but the customer will be using it long-term on, over multiple courses (no chance of royalties )
hmm £10 a day...

Hobgoblin Lord
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Oct 2005
Location: Fall River, MA USA
Posted: 9th Nov 2007 21:16
This depends a little if you actually keep the rights to the code and their use is limited to instructing students, but they will still be making money from it I would say $10 an hour would be good for getting your foot in the door so I guess $400. If they get the rights to the code and can do whatever they choose with it I would suggest more like $1,200.

Step back and take a look at what they will likely make from using your code before you give it away.

Make sure to hammer out the details of the licence on your code before you code line 1.

Junkrock
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Sep 2006
Location:
Posted: 9th Nov 2007 21:16
The way I work it out with music is as follows:

Minimum wage in the uk = £5 (ish)

Hours of development x 5 - That the LEAST you should ask for.

Programming is a skilled profession so depending on how much quality you can provide along with documentation you could add on a few more pounds so add on around another 5 extra.

Then put in expenses ie plug ins required, extra software, general living expenses used during development so add a few more so we are up to about £15

You say however that you are only producing simple code so it might be fair to bring this number down a bit, but not to much as you will not recive royalties so i'd say our base figure is about £12

So you work for 8 hours a day for 5 days = 40 hours of work

40 Hours x Base Price £12 = £480

So with all this in mind I don't think you should ask for less than £480 ($960)

Never undersell yourself, you wouldn't expect less from a regular job nor would you accept it.

That just how I work it out tho, each project varies and you can adjust the numbers a bit based on the project.

Hope this helps.

DaZ

MartinS
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Dec 2005
Location: Rochester, NY
Posted: 9th Nov 2007 21:36
If you worked 5 hours a day, for 5 days, then minimum wage (in NYState) would be $150 (@$6 an hour). I wouldn't work for minimum wage, so, say, $200? That's about £95... I gotta get myself a job!

MS

Formerly known as someone else.
Peter H
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Feb 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posted: 9th Nov 2007 22:02
Don't sell yourself short... but remember that some money is better than no money...

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
Zombie 20
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Nov 2006
Location: Etters, PA
Posted: 9th Nov 2007 22:17
sorry butterfingers, I've never sold code before, hope I didn't offend you.

Dr. Mannete- OMG It's Zombie's voice, it's so Suave!

Butter fingers
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Mar 2006
Location: Mecca
Posted: 9th Nov 2007 22:33
Zombie 20. LOL No you didn't dude. When you posted I hadn't explained the situation very clearly, so it's not your fault!

I'm thinking that at a weeks work I should charge somewhere between 400-500. If I tutored for a whole day on game dev, I'd get over £100, so I don't think it's out of order to pitch around the same price for days work programming.

There's potential for follow through with more work, so I'm thinkin I can pitch this one low, because if I get it there'll be plenty more.

Thanks for the input though guys, I appreciate it.
peas.

Zotoaster
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Dec 2004
Location: Scotland
Posted: 9th Nov 2007 22:43
So are you saying you would pay one of us to do it? I'll do it! No seriously I would for that kind of money.

"It's like floating a boat on a liquid that I don't know, but I'm quite happy to drink it if I'm thirsty enough" - Me being a good programmer but sucking at computers
Gil Galvanti
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Dec 2004
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: 10th Nov 2007 00:04
Hmm...I would probably charge something like $300-$400.


Jess T
Retired Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Sep 2003
Location: Over There... Kablam!
Posted: 10th Nov 2007 00:59
(I skipped alot of posts)

I would charge easily $500, but that's only for a hacked together version.

If it's for learning, and they're going to use it for other things than just playing, then it becomes a reusable resource.

Hence, I'd charge easily $2000. Easily.

Nintendo DS & Dominos :: DS Dominos
http://jt0.org
Peter H
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Feb 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posted: 10th Nov 2007 01:51 Edited at: 10th Nov 2007 01:51
Also if they are going to be looking at your source code for learning, i am assuming it will need to be heavily commented... +time => +$

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
Scraggle
Moderator
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posted: 10th Nov 2007 02:34
I'm confused ... are you writing the code to sell or are you buying the code?

If you are writing it and you think it will only take 5 days, then why not write it and post the exe then people can give a much better evaluation of its worth.

Personally, I think any project of a marketable quality will take considerably longer than 5 days to complete. The DBP compo's usually have a deadline of 3-4 months and that is often a struggle ... that said 'Doodleroids' only took me 4 hours



flashing snall
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Oct 2005
Location: Boston
Posted: 10th Nov 2007 03:19
dang butters (mind if I call you that butter fingers?)]
selling code?!? you got it made, id pay have my job about DBPRO. as long as you enjoy, id charge just a little more than yu need to get by....
i work at the local super market at $7.75 an hour, but i dont work often, so i dont get much doe.


"these shoes are 300 hundred dollars"-Shoes by Kelly http://smallgroupproductions.com/
Aaron Miller
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Feb 2006
Playing: osu!
Posted: 10th Nov 2007 04:08
If they're using it long term I would charge for it like people charge for electricity. Charge like a dollar (USD) a day, and anything created with it they can keep. <This is mainly because it is only one sell, if it was multiple sells I'd have a different answer>


Cheers,

-naota

"I'd newbie slap here, but I've no idea how far I'd need slap before they'd come back with a clue." - VanB
Aex.Uni forums
Keo C
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Aug 2007
Location: Somewhere between here and there.
Posted: 10th Nov 2007 05:47 Edited at: 10th Nov 2007 05:49
Quote: "don't get much doe."

Female deer?

Anyway I agree with Scraggle, If we saw some screenshots or some of that nature we could value it.


tha_rami
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Mar 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 10th Nov 2007 08:41
$400 sounds reasonable enough to me. Junkrock's reasoning sounded quite good to me as well. Plus, a car racing game? Heck, that'll help you with Estate of Mind as well, for the physics. Lucky you!


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
Mr Z
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2007
Location:
Posted: 10th Nov 2007 12:11
An simple race game? Nothing at all. Dont really care that much about money. And if I want to sell something, I want it do be VERY good and not just simple. But thats me.

When your love leaves you, it hurt. But when she wants you back, when she reallize leaving you was an mistake, who am I not to take her back, if I still love her?
tha_rami
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Mar 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 10th Nov 2007 14:32
Screw it. If they're willing to pay, I'm not the one to refuse unless it's really simple stuff or a service for a friend. Not for something someone will earn from commercially. Paytime's a bitch.


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
tha_rami
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Mar 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 10th Nov 2007 14:32 Edited at: 10th Nov 2007 14:33
Okay, it doesn't censor bitch and this thing doubleposted.




A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
Agent Dink
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Mar 2004
Location:
Posted: 10th Nov 2007 14:36
Yes, $400 minimum for a week of work if you know what you are doing and are pretty experienced in programming.

Warning: Please be advised. Geek Culture is under lockdown. All mods are set to Indi mode. Any and all topics WILL BE LOCKED. Post at your own risk!
Drew Cameron
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Jan 2004
Location: Scotland
Posted: 10th Nov 2007 15:23
Butter fingers;

£500 or more for 5 days of proper programming. AT THE LEAST.

They're paying you for your time, NOT for the quality.

£500 or more. I assume you're older than 18, and that means youre entitled to proper pay for your work.

If it was for a company, and not for a teaching facility, you'd easily be able to charge £1,000 or more for 5 days.

Butter fingers
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Mar 2006
Location: Mecca
Posted: 10th Nov 2007 15:53
THanks for all the input guys.

I think I have the pitch pretty much sorted by now.

I'm obviously unable to post the code itself for valuation, because I'm not going to write it until I have a contract.

And to clarify, by simple I meant that it will not neccessarily be a full game, with loads of features, it'll be a straight forward, one track racing game.

Anyway, I think from what's been said I have a good idea of how much I can ask for, so again, thank you for the input. I'll post back with how it goes next week!

bitJericho
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 11th Nov 2007 05:30
Quote: "This depends a little if you actually keep the rights to the code and their use is limited to instructing students, but they will still be making money from it I would say $10 an hour would be good for getting your foot in the door so I guess $400. If they get the rights to the code and can do whatever they choose with it I would suggest more like $1,200."


10 bucks an hour is rubbish. 1200 sounds reasonable. For 10 an hour, after taxes you'd barely be making minimum wage (in the US). You should charge at least 30 USD / hr for this type of work, and in reality you should probably charge more like 50+.

Remember to never undersell yourself.


The greatest multiplayer text adventure ever...
Raven
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 11th Nov 2007 07:06
The real point here is that this isn't simply hashed together code though. You're intended target audience is students, which if they're moving from FPSCreator would suggest they're not exactly programming-centric.

As such this adds a whole new level to what is written.
For example, a while back Kenjar asked me to make a Space Invaders clone with the intent that the source code would be seen by people learning to program for the first time.

Making a clone that worked close to identical to the original took around 3 hours (but only because I spent most of that pissing about making a BBC BASIC style SOUND function), yet then I had to restructure that code from my style into something that was easier to read. Then put in more understandable comments so atleast Kenjar would understand what was going on at a glance, etc.

In the end it all took just over a week to complete (although it was only about 1hr a day I could really dedicate to it, including testing throughout the code)

Point is though, it takes more to write code for educational purposes than you'd think. I mean I also had some design docets and such that really weren't needed but felt that would help to explain in a more visual way what was happening and changed.

Still you have to think about what each part does, what exactly it's really going to teaching, etc.

So it might take longer than you expect from that respect. Although a plus side a training tool doesn't need to exactly be top-notch quality in terms of playability and such (although most I know who have pride in their work will tend to do such sub-conciously).

Think about what work you're putting in to begin with.
As people have said, go by minimum wage for your base estimate with your estimate on time-scale.

I'd say 2 weeks (10 working days, 8hrs a day) should be a good estimate for something like this. Remember that things can crop up and take longer than you might expect, this also gives you enough time to look over everything. Make sure it does what it does, crush bugs that appear, work around issues that might appear, etc...

Dunno about your age group, but the minimum wage in the UK:
18-20: £4.90
21-24: £5.60
25+: £6.20

I'd suggest going by the top-end simply cause well often it's good to over estimate as it gives you that little extra

Also as you're not providing IP for this, and you are offering it as what effectively is a non-commercial license agreement then add on a "bonus" i.e. guarenteed minimum payment no matter how long it takes.. but also offer as the "NCLA" and also offer a "Royalty Free Agreement" price (which I'd suggest should be 5-10x what your NCLA is) this way while you're getting extra from the deal, the customer feels they're getting a deal going for the cheaper option.

Lastly you should probably note that professional programmers generally earn in the region of £10-25/hr (depending on the company) where-as most freelance/database programmers will earn closer to £25-50/hr.

This again is something you can work by, and not that because they are an education institute you're providing your services for half the price you normally would. Again they'll feel like they are getting a better deal.

If the guy/girl in charge of the course and contracting you has any sort of industry experience, they will know roughly the going rate; so will probably expect something fairly high.

You generally charge more for such services being freelance because work is not guarenteed. If it was guarenteed then you charge less. You could also encourage this for further business by offering your services at a discount next time (say minus the bonus)

Also I would suggest contacting TGC as they deal with educational licenses directly (I believe Rick does atleast) and may be able to provide you with information on other institues you could further retail the source code to.

Remember to make sure you have a contracted agreement prior to starting the work, and also make sure you provide a license with your source code that states what they're legally allowed to do with the source and that anything made based on it is under the same license. (Creative Commons License is actually a very good one for source like this, as is LGPL)

Hobgoblin Lord
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Oct 2005
Location: Fall River, MA USA
Posted: 13th Nov 2007 04:18
Quote: "For 10 an hour, after taxes you'd barely be making minimum wage (in the US)."


you do realise that minimum wage is taxed also. I admit $10 an hour is not alot, but if he keeps all rights to the code then they are paying him to develop something he can reuse and resell, and they cannot. That is why I would go a little lower on the spectrum.

bitJericho
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 15th Nov 2007 18:55
Quote: "you do realise that minimum wage is taxed also"


Please ignore my logical fallacies...

Anyway, who's going to re-buy this code? It's fairly useless except to the person who commissioned it. What are the chances you're going to make a sale to another educator?

I say charge an arm and a leg for it, cuz it's not worth the time otherwise.


The greatest multiplayer text adventure ever...
GatorHex
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Apr 2005
Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 17th Nov 2007 10:30 Edited at: 17th Nov 2007 10:58
This is why IT workers are screwed we need a union

We want royalty % like script writers!!!

Techs get screwed too, when I asked for a raise for the network department I remember my by boss saying "all we did was take Cisco kit out of boxes and screw them into racks". They didn't have a clue It's just like that comedy the IT Crowd http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_ekQ-YpD-M

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-19 13:25:35
Your offset time is: 2024-11-19 13:25:35