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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] freerice.com

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n008
17
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Joined: 18th Apr 2007
Location: Chernarus
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 15:53
Quote: "And N008, I do believe you have had your ass handed to you on a fancy plate. Well done."

Typo.

Seppuku Arts
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 16:19
For me it's not the adverts, its the people themselves, which is a shame because that's what puts people off, the guy actually said to me that a lot of people slam the phone and to be honest I can see why, people don't like to be pressurised or feel guilty over something that's not their fault, so they might just say f&*& off and go for one of the charities that's less pressurising.

Like one I'm tempted by where the person who stop me in the street managed to keep a conversation going for a long time and didn't mind if I did my research first or didn't want to start donating straight away and he actually gave me his opinion flat out rather than trying to 'sell' the charity if you will. It was much more effective and when my next student loan comes it I think it'll be more likely that I'll be donating monthly to them and not the other one.

At least in the mean time I can give away free rice!

I love Nancy DrewG, but not insert brain here
bitJericho
22
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Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 16:30 Edited at: 24th Nov 2007 16:33
Quote: "I was willing to pay the £2 a month when my next student loan comes in, but I wonder if there are better charities out there."


O_o what?? You're going to use your student loans for charity?>.< How about using those loans for yourself, and once your out of college and making real money, then donate.

And this website is just to get straight up advertising revenue. They probably donate less than a few percent of their income from those ads, and it'll be tax deductible. People are so friggin' gullible.

Watching ads, even for charity, is called brainwashing... They probably get paid not per click, but per views, they're probably raking in a fortune, at least, until the advertisers catch on and pull out.


The greatest multiplayer text adventure ever...
Seppuku Arts
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20
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 16:35
That's what I planned to do, but it's £2 a month and well I might do it, that's one less drink a month when going out. I suppose it's the insane amount of charities walking through the streets of Derby that's done it.

I love Nancy DrewG, but not insert brain here
bitJericho
22
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Location: United States
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 16:40 Edited at: 24th Nov 2007 16:41
Seriously, you should never donate on a loan! You can do a whole lot better good once your out of school. Think of it this way, right now you donate 2 pounds, but once you repay that loan, it turns into 3 or 4 pounds. If you waited till you got out of college, you could donate an extra 2 pounds

And seriously, if you guys want to actually help, you can donate here:

(placed in code box as it's ridiculously long)


Donating a dollar through here would probably take you a few days or even weeks on that freerice site to earn.


The greatest multiplayer text adventure ever...
Diggsey
18
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Joined: 24th Apr 2006
Location: On this web page.
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 17:03
Well leaving an autoclicker on over-night is easier, but is that cheating...

bitJericho
22
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Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 17:05 Edited at: 24th Nov 2007 17:05
Quote: "Well leaving an autoclicker on over-night is easier, but is that cheating..."


It is cheating, but I don't see why you shouldn't. Quite frankly, the site is ripping off it's advertisers anyway. And if I were the site owner I would want you to do it, because then I'd get more money from impressions


The greatest multiplayer text adventure ever...
Seppuku Arts
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 17:29
It's helpful, yet lazy, but may get the advertisers thinking 'hang on a minute, we're being ripped off'.

I love Nancy DrewG, but not insert brain here
Raven
19
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 17:35
Quote: "We should help them becouse no body else can. Imagine if you were one of thoase people. You would also like help. Its not tehre fault either is it!. But beggers on teh street they can be to blame. Unless there whole family has been homeless. They could have stayed on at school or got a job."


Having been homeless at one point, I take great offence to you believing that everyone homeless is uneducated or could've just walked in to a job whenever they wanted to.

Still we'll see how well you do when someone steals your identity, racks up a bill on your credit card far beyond your means and get threatened with jail time because your bank doesn't beleive it wasn't you.

I'm still paying back this debt while the bank "looks in to the claims" which has been 2 years now. So don't you dare sodding presume that people homeless are down to their own fault.

According to most people I talked to at the shelters most we're kids who ran away from home due to being abused in some way; others lost thier jobs when work in their area for what they're qualified to do moved overseas as it's cheaper.

I mean despite popular belief, it isn't actually that easy to get a menial job if you actually have education; or even worse no address due to the bank repossessing your home.

In-fact most employeers seem to frown on you not having an official address. Even places like McDonalds, or Wal*mart.
So go to hell.

Quote: "Well is it tehre fault its so corrupt, no.

Think of a situation like this.

Ypou live in Africa. Your poor without a house but a hut that is unsafe and could fall down any second. And the water you drink makes you feel ill. And food is low.

You would like help wouldent you?

And to know someone else in the world is using a computer having a good time not even caring about you. Throwing you inot the dirt.

How would you feel eh big buy?. "


Many people have had life far better off than I have; you don't get anywhere by sitting on your arse relying on hand-outs from others.

If you think for a second that if I was someone in an african country in those sort of circumstances that I would lay down and give up hope of improving things; you've gotta have a screw loose.
I've never been one to keep my head down and just get on with the drudgery of like because people expect me to.

You might roll over and accept your fate relying on what people give you, but I certainly as hell wouldn't. I always try to improve life for myself and those I know, helping out however I can.

There is always something worth fighting for, you can't throw resources at a problem along and expect it to fix it. To me if there is a problem with something you fix it by any means necessary rather than patching to solve it for a time being.

dark donkey
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Posted: 24th Nov 2007 17:49
Quote: "Still we'll see how well you do when someone steals your identity, racks up a bill on your credit card far beyond your means and get threatened with jail time because your bank doesn't beleive it wasn't you."


Well maybee but seeming i live in the country with the lowest crime rate. And i use 1 computer with AVG Avast Mcaffe and Norton on fro money purposes. I dont own any credit cards and i dont want to. My chances are lowered. Im not saying i wont though. And i also have a bank account completly seperate from diffrent ones that i store cash in incase something like this happens.



Quote: "I'm still paying back this debt while the bank "looks in to the claims" which has been 2 years now. So don't you dare sodding presume that people homeless are down to their own fault.
"


I see from your sig you have an xbox360 yes?. Why buy an xbox 360 while in bedt?. If i were in debt i would spend my money on things i dont need.

And homeless people who have bought a house got into debt and had to sell evreything and live on the street. It is tehre fault.

Quote: "I'm still paying back this debt while the bank "looks in to the claims" which has been 2 years now. So don't you dare sodding presume that people homeless are down to their own fault.
"


Its not there fault but it is if theyv done what i sated above.

Quote: "If you think for a second that if I was someone in an african country in those sort of circumstances that I would lay down and give up hope of improving things;"


Did you even ready my post. I never said that did i?, no!. I just stated if you were in that situation you would like to have hand outs. Not that youd lay or your lazy arse doing nothing all day did i!.
MonoCoder
18
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Joined: 4th Dec 2005
Location: england
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 17:57
Quote: "Well maybee but seeming i live in the country with the lowest crime rate. And i use 1 computer with AVG Avast Mcaffe and Norton on fro money purposes. I dont own any credit cards and i dont want to. My chances are lowered. Im not saying i wont though. And i also have a bank account completly seperate from diffrent ones that i store cash in incase something like this happens."


I'm pretty sure he's referring to a hypothetical scenario. If, by chance, all that failed, then what?

EBA; FUI; Mario Land Ripoff.
Every time you post a joke in the form of code, mace yourself.
Fallout
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Location: Basingstoke, England
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 18:13
Back on track - 1000 grains of rice and vocab level of 36. Not only have I donated a childsize dinner, but I've also proven I have a ridiculously flowery tongue.


Raven
19
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 18:40
Quote: "I'm pretty sure he's referring to a hypothetical scenario. If, by chance, all that failed, then what?"


I wish I was, that actually happened to me; didn't even know until I get letters from debt collectors about it.

Quote: "Well maybee but seeming i live in the country with the lowest crime rate. And i use 1 computer with AVG Avast Mcaffe and Norton on fro money purposes. I dont own any credit cards and i dont want to. My chances are lowered. Im not saying i wont though. And i also have a bank account completly seperate from diffrent ones that i store cash in incase something like this happens."


Keep telling yourself that. I didn't even realise this was going on, because my personal bank account, credit cards, etc. were business as usual. The identity theif had opened up several accounts, credit cards and loans in my name.

Which I feel have some sense of irony given I was trying to get a loan at the time to purchase a car that I kept getting declined for.

Quote: "Did you even ready my post. I never said that did i?, no!. I just stated if you were in that situation you would like to have hand outs. Not that youd lay or your lazy arse doing nothing all day did i!."


No, I wouldn't like to have hand-outs. I dislike having to rely on anyone, and while I have in the past appreciated some things to help me survive; fact is, why should I give a flying **** about some 3rd world person when there are those in my own society who have it just as bad... worse in-fact because they don't have the options open there are in 3rd world counteries.

They cant build themselves a home, government owned land they have to pay tax. They can't farm... they can't own land how can they possibly farm. Oh and there's people like you who believe they're in that situation because of something that is their own doing, so don't even want to help them.

I sleep well at night not caring about people who aren't part of my nation who need help. I don't sleep right knowing there is someone out there who will freeze in the cold winter nights with no where to go.

Quote: " see from your sig you have an xbox360 yes?. Why buy an xbox 360 while in bedt?. If i were in debt i would spend my money on things i dont need."


I don't spend beyond my own means.
Also don't see it as something I don't need... because without consoles, I would've probably gone postal by now. They're about the only thing keeping my sanity in check, especially after the last couple of years I've had.

tha_rami
18
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Location: Netherlands
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 18:52
Quote: "If you think for a second that if I was someone in an african country in those sort of circumstances that I would lay down and give up hope of improving things; you've gotta have a screw loose.
I've never been one to keep my head down and just get on with the drudgery of like because people expect me to."


Heck, you can't tell. Possibly, all you'd be allowed to do is to accept it. You wouldn't even have the knowledge to doubt what is going on and how to improve it. You'd think 'this is life' and period.


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
Agent Dink
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Posted: 24th Nov 2007 19:11 Edited at: 24th Nov 2007 19:29
Quote: "Do you guys realize how much 10 grains of rice is and how much it costs? Let's face it: 10 grains is less then 1 mouthful and costs practically nothing and you are bound to fail at least half the time. It's a very easy way to make money, you don't earn much from showing adds but they really aren't spending much either"


That means they have fed 176,595.358 people for one day. That's not too bad!

Edit: Just donated 1000 more.

Raven
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 19:31
Quote: "Heck, you can't tell. Possibly, all you'd be allowed to do is to accept it. You wouldn't even have the knowledge to doubt what is going on and how to improve it. You'd think 'this is life' and period."


Perhaps, but I doubt it.
I mean do you readily accept what your government does, as "this is life" and get on with it. Never been one to take things lying down; and I often actively do things to try and change the current quality of life for myself and those around me.

For example, I was on the dole about 6-8months back; along with a few other friends. We basically pooled together our resouces to maintain one of the apartments with the bills, food, etc. rather than running all of them seperately. Nights out were the same where we'd share who paid.

I mean it's not big so much as "feeding the whole village" sorta thing or whatever; but it helped. I mean often I'd go over to my fathers house, help with the chickens, vegitable patch and cows (as did my other friends who went with me) and we'd end up sharing the food we got from it.

So ya know, you can always try to improve your situation by working together; because even small groups of people with something to offer each other can usually get a bigger net result that just struggling on your own.

bitJericho
22
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Location: United States
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 19:31 Edited at: 24th Nov 2007 19:31
No, they fed that to 176,595.358 people for one meal, and a pretty crappy small meal too. I would probably need 2 or 3 times that just so I don't feel hungry in ten minutes But I am pretty fat

They potentially fed 588651.1933 people for one day with 3 very small bowls of white rice.


The greatest multiplayer text adventure ever...
Jeku
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 19:37
Quote: "yet you know full well that most of you when you pass them on the street never give them a dime."


A homeless person in your country is 1000 times richer than the average family in some African countries. You can't compare the two.

tha_rami
18
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Location: Netherlands
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 19:55
Quote: "You'd think 'this is life' and period."

Perhaps, but I doubt it.
I mean do you readily accept what your government does, as "this is life" and get on with it. Never been one to take things lying down; and I often actively do things to try and change the current quality of life for myself and those around me.

For example, I was on the dole about 6-8months back; along with a few other friends. We basically pooled together our resouces to maintain one of the apartments with the bills, food, etc. rather than running all of them seperately. Nights out were the same where we'd share who paid.

I mean it's not big so much as "feeding the whole village" sorta thing or whatever; but it helped. I mean often I'd go over to my fathers house, help with the chickens, vegitable patch and cows (as did my other friends who went with me) and we'd end up sharing the food we got from it.

So ya know, you can always try to improve your situation by working together; because even small groups of people with something to offer each other can usually get a bigger net result that just struggling on your own."


You think you have time for that? You're busy surviving. You can't NOT ACCEPT stuff, simply because that you'd be considered either an anomality, or skipped by the merchants, or simply die.

We cannot even start to grasp their situation, but all I know is that if they could change it, they would. They aren't, as you say, all passive. Heck, I thing that there are people among them that, given an education, would most likely be able to outsmart us. That if they would've been born here, they'd say exactly what you say. Simply because we cannot put ourselves in their shoes - we keep assuming we'd be the same person there. We wouldn't be.


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Raven
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 24th Nov 2007 20:19
Quote: "We cannot even start to grasp their situation, but all I know is that if they could change it, they would. They aren't, as you say, all passive. Heck, I thing that there are people among them that, given an education, would most likely be able to outsmart us. That if they would've been born here, they'd say exactly what you say. Simply because we cannot put ourselves in their shoes - we keep assuming we'd be the same person there. We wouldn't be."


Who you are is often based on your experiences and up-bringing; and every situation is relative to what you know.
I know a few from these counteries who've basically pushed themselves and then migrated to somewhere else; there are others who do try to improve the quality of life where the are.

Thing is though all of these agencies providing money and food for the nations don't target these people who are responsible and could put it to good use but instead entrust it to either an agency who just wants to keep "helping" in a way that forced dependance; or to a government that is corrupt in nature.

In any sense, I'm still standing by my original point of why the hell should we solve problems of nations ahead of our own?

Quote: "A homeless person in your country is 1000 times richer than the average family in some African countries. You can't compare the two."


In a literal sense, perhaps. However in a relative sense I really don't think so; in-fact the systems we have in place in this country seem designed that if you fail to the point of destitution then the system just forgets about you.

A good example, when I was homeless my waiting time for a council flat was estimated at 3months; they offered me a temporary accomidation which I had to pay for myself (being broke and homeless is impossible).

Yet a soon-to-be-mother friend of mine (by soon I mean she was only 2 weeks in) was given a council flat in less than a week .. she was living with her mother and was allowed to stay there with her mother getting extra benefits until she finally gave birth.

Alright so they don't have a welfare system in Africa (let's use Nigera as an example), however they also do not have land ownership and taxation in the same way we do.
If you want to build a home, you can just pick some land and build.

Simple as that. No one there is homeless unless they choose to be such.. yet here, it is possible to be homeless.
Same goes for food, we if we're made homeless must scavenge and hope that the system can provide us with money; which btw you're not entitled to unless you have somewhere to live. Where-as in Nigera you have more oppurtunity to work without a fixed abode, employeers will pay you in food rather than money; and also it is common practise for them to offer to allow you to live on premesis.

You also have the option to be able to use the hand-outs from Red Cross to try to farm; or just simply have a meal. Alright so maybe that'll end up being one small meal a day. Compare that to here where the Salvation Army and other charities only provide board and a single small meal once every 2-3days.

Seriously the poverty stricken homeless in our so-called Civilised societies are realistically worse off than someone in a 3rd world country. I seriously wouldn't believe the television adverts about children starving, and going without "clean" water never knowing where the next meal will come from.

At this point our aid means they have a better quality of life than anyone in the same position here; but that isn't enough for all of these agencies they always want more. While ignoring the fact we have some truely needy people here as well.

What's more is if we stopped sodding interfering in the countries affairs, then they might have a chance to learn to stand on their own two feet again.

Africans have survived on that continent for several thousand if not million years longer than we have even had a society. Yet all of a sudden within this century their lives need our help to improve?

5Louiz
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Posted: 24th Nov 2007 20:45
Let me contribute to the discussion by hitting a colder point.

Actually, I am a person who enjoys helping others. I know exactly what is to sleep on the pavement, to feel hungry...

I can tell you that any help is welcome. At the same time that I refuse to give money to someone who has health and youth to work, I trust and contribute when I can.

The people who do charity have their merits. But the cold point is.. this will never be as good as we want it to be. Not if all we can do is to feed them.

Go to Africa and you will see women with four children each. Most of those women were raped. Most of the fathers saved their shoulders from the responsibility. The poor and larger slice of their society suffers under machismo, sexual crimes, lack of instruction. The human population is growing faster than our capability of helping. The system is not capable of giving basic sanitation, schools, hospitals et cetera for everybody.

Even if we could create conditions for the entire population of the world right now, the growth is absurd. That happens because we can protect ourselves, we are at the top of the food chain. And, because of the technology and conscience advances, the life expectation did grow much. When the human was more close to other animals, its life time expectation did not pass thirty years. The equilibrium existed back then.

Well.. I shall stop here. I think that basic education is more important than anything, but the calamity requires urgent help - the non ideal food donation, for example.

But I still feel better after doing small contributions.

Talking about small contributions, will TGC make that RND movement in the next year again? I am making some small games to put in that pack.

Benji
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Posted: 24th Nov 2007 21:00
How do they count out the grains of rice when they are buying it? This looks like it could very easily be fake.

MonoCoder
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Posted: 24th Nov 2007 21:01
Weighing it?

EBA; FUI; Mario Land Ripoff.
Every time you post a joke in the form of code, mace yourself.
UFO
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Posted: 24th Nov 2007 21:38 Edited at: 24th Nov 2007 21:41
legit or not, this game is still fun.

And any extra revenue will probably go to the servers.

And another thing, teaching people how to work for themselves, like making better schools, is more helpful than giving them rice. Because they would just eat the rice and be hungry later.

But freerice.com is still fun and educational, with at least a chance that what you are doing is giving someone a mouthful or two of rice...

Quote: "How do they count out the grains of rice when they are buying it? This looks like it could very easily be fake."


They could weigh 10 grains of rice, and then just use that weight to find out the amount of grains in any amount.

Your signature has been erased by a bad joke
Matt Rock
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Posted: 24th Nov 2007 23:46
Everyone is just speculating about the validity of this website.If they are evil or not as caring as they claim to be, then they certainly have the BBC and the United Nations fooled. Apparently, The Washington Post are also suckers.

I agree, there are starving people in North America and Europe who could benefit from free food... but nine times out of ten are they willing to help themselves? In the United States, we have tons of programs for the homeless. In my city alone there's at least a dozen homeless shelters and soup kitchens and all of that. There's government assist programs (the ones that the current administration didn't dice up anyway) that can get someone off the street and into a job. Head down to your local social services branch and pick up a brochure .

In Africa, they don't have that luxury. They've been ravaged by genocide after genocide, constant guerilla warfare, disease epidemics, hostile occupation, drought... when was the last time any of these things hit the US or Great Britain? The Great Depression wasn't remotely as horrible. I agree that our government(s) should be doing something more to help people in our western countries, but it's not like we're doing a whole hell of a lot in Africa or anywhere else in the world. Name a few of your friends who were ethnically cleansed? That's what happened in Rwanda in the 1990's, and the US and UK didn't do anything whatsoever to help. And right now, as we speak, there's a genocide going on in the Sudan. What are we doing? Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are adopting kids... that's about it. So when a website comes along that the World Food Programme actually endorses, that has fed no less than 50,000 starving people to date, why contest their validity? I say break out that thesaurus and play this game for ten or fifteen minutes a day. Someone's life can be changed positively, maybe not forever but certainly for a meal, because you knew that loquacious means talkative.

BiggAdd
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 03:11
Quote: "I agree, there are starving people in North America and Europe who could benefit from free food"


They are, in the BBC article you linked, it clearly states:

Web game provides rice for hungary

Well that was the worst joke I've told all week. I might just go jump on a spike now.

If this site is legit, it certainly seems like a good idea.


Its finally here!
Libervurto
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 03:22
I think this is great but Africa is a fudging huge problem and just giving them food isn't gonna change poop. (comically censored version)
We need to spend real money on real things that are gonna help these people instead of just keeping them alive for another day or two.

"You must be someone's friend to make comments about them." - MySpace lied.
ionstream
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 03:28
Quote: "Web game provides rice for hungary"




That's not as bad as you think you said.
Raven
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 04:43
Quote: "In Africa, they don't have that luxury. They've been ravaged by genocide after genocide, constant guerilla warfare, disease epidemics, hostile occupation, drought... when was the last time any of these things hit the US or Great Britain? The Great Depression wasn't remotely as horrible. I agree that our government(s) should be doing something more to help people in our western countries, but it's not like we're doing a whole hell of a lot in Africa or anywhere else in the world. Name a few of your friends who were ethnically cleansed? That's what happened in Rwanda in the 1990's, and the US and UK didn't do anything whatsoever to help. And right now, as we speak, there's a genocide going on in the Sudan. What are we doing? Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are adopting kids... that's about it. So when a website comes along that the World Food Programme actually endorses, that has fed no less than 50,000 starving people to date, why contest their validity? I say break out that thesaurus and play this game for ten or fifteen minutes a day. Someone's life can be changed positively, maybe not forever but certainly for a meal, because you knew that loquacious means talkative."


They do more for people overseas they they do in their own counteries. Last time I checked, we spend more giving the French Farmers benefits (let alone to the 3rd world aid) than we do on those who are Homeless, or our own Farmers post foot-and-mouth, or child protection agencies combined.

This counteries 3rd world and war-torn aid gets almost as much as we spend on assylum seekers (which in-case you weren't aware, and you're no doubt not... we happen to recieve roughly 200,000 which is cut from last year assylum seekers a year) most of whom have traveled from these countries to ours to seek a "better" life.

An overall irony of the matter is often they do get special treatment over those who have been born and raised in this country often up to several generations, because they come from "shattered lives"

The way I see it for most of these nations, if we didn't interfere they wouldn't need saving and they wouldn't migrate straight here believing it's some sorta land of the free (which it's bloody far from)... same goes for the aid.

I have some very harsh views on their over-population problems resulting in their inability to feed themselves especially in the light of things like famine conditions; but as I said one, and I'll say again.

These people have survived on that continant on their own for thousands of years. It is neither our place, nor our position to help them.

Believe it or not, many tribes in afria untouched by western culture still survive as well as they ever had with no population problems. There is a reason for that.

Frankly my view is simple... Either we install a western government and such, forcing them to become a western style nation; or we leave them along to figure it out.

In both cases, the problem would get solved. You can think about the end result and how harsh that actually sounds, but frankly it's like a Credit Card.

If you spend more each month on it, and only pay the minimum repayment even accounting for the interest that bill is just going to keep growing larger until eventually there is nothing you can do except declare bankruptcy.

Because that is what this will all end up as, in a few years time no matter how many Live8 concerts and crap are done; people won't realise they're throwing good money after bad, and a harsh reality will have to set in over what has to be done.

Only somehow I don't think anyone will take this harsh reality and in the mean time millions will suffer as a result.

tha_rami
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 06:24
Quote: "Frankly my view is simple... Either we install a western government and such, forcing them to become a western style nation; or we leave them along to figure it out."

Honestly, that remark is too political to react to extensively, let's say that attitude is the worst attitude I've seen in my life, and it seems quite common among western people. That's imperialism.

My vision is even simpler: We help those in need of help. This includes wartorn countries, countries suffering from epidemics or severe sickness, countries showing a significant interest and progress in developing their own economy. We do not put them above our own problems: Our own people go first (up till a certain point) and people with asylum are treated as any other person (with the exception of war refugees).

Ever heard the story of the British somewhere in the southern parts of Africa? It's a well known story told in African countries. They got to that country and saw how farmers were working on dry land, with only palm trees for shade. The plants would not grow well, and there was little rain. The British told the people in the country to replace the palm trees with trees that offer more shade, but the people refused. In the hope of civilizing the people, the British replaced the trees under force. In doing so, not only did they destroy a part of harvest (Date), but also any chance of cultivating the land. The trees first used the water in the ground that was left, and then died, leaving no shade at all.

We might assume that we are better because we are stronger economically, but a) we're not better, we're just plain lucky to be born here and not there and b) that gives us no right to just go and interfere with politics by force in whatever country.


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Jeku
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 08:32 Edited at: 25th Nov 2007 08:33
Quote: "Seriously the poverty stricken homeless in our so-called Civilised societies are realistically worse off than someone in a 3rd world country. I seriously wouldn't believe the television adverts about children starving, and going without "clean" water never knowing where the next meal will come from."


It's easy to turn a blind eye to something you don't experience firsthand. Take it from someone who has traveled through the slums of a 3rd world country---

The first time you see little kids taking baths in the ditches outside your bus window, you will never be the same. When you see a little boy at a train station with a sunken skeletal face, searching for bits of corn and rice on the tracks, you realize just how much we take for granted. The bums near the Skytrain in my city live 1000x better than those kids. The only difference is the bum can turn his life around (like the bum who started the Second Cup coffee chain and became a billionaire). The little kids in the 3rd world country have all of the odds in the world stacked against him.

It's easy for us to say the little kids on the TV are actors, and then we go to our warm beds at night incredibly ignorant of the things outside our own country.

Nemesis_0_
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 16:24
Here is my problem with the ones the adverts that are on TV...

1.) 90% of them are run by charitites that taek a massive chunk of the donations for themselves

2.) THe little starving girl is clean, cute, and has perfect teeth (yes i know people are probably likely to help the oh so cute and innocent girl with the perfect smile because SHE DOESNT DESERVE POVERTY, congratulations, shes an actress... and yes this theory was proven by a newgroup one day)

3.)THey dont try to make you feel sorry for the kids for having nothing, they try to make YOU feel bad about having something

Free rice is fun! i think its awesome and I play it daily... because it doesnt do the above things..
tha_rami
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 17:29
That theory is bullcrap, honestly. Maybe over there in the Americas, but not here in the Netherlands. Your third point makes no sense to me, they show how bad the children live SO THAT you feel bad.

The first point is true to an extent. Most charities do take a chunk for commercials or to stay active, which isn't a bad thing, if you ask me.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 17:41
How odd, the ones I see are malnourished kids in Africa wanting to be fed - or footage of kids injured in the war and not actors.

Yes they do make you feel sorry for the kids, because when I see the adverts, I do feel sorry for them and not guilty for what I have got. Charities in the USA/Canada must work differently than they do in Europe. The child abuse adverts use actors though, which is stated by the advert, but are reenactments and not lies.

I don't have problem with the adverts, because they try to show how it is, though those that like to advertise and show themselves as being quite big often lose a lot of money in their administration and it isn't used to help them, but to advertise and hire. The 'less' advertised charities like the one that has been bugging me, give more because they don't waste their donations - their advertisement consists of people in the streets making people aware and trying to get donations.

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n008
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 21:22
Tsk, tsk, tsk. Africa == hopeless()

We can't help them. All we do is completely blow 1.5 billion dollars in Foreign aid there.

Sure, there is a big problem there, but until we go in and kill all of the dictators, and educate them, and buil houses for them and educate them more, we can't do s&@&.

Oh, btw: Africa is ~11 million square miles. 11 million. That's *&$^#& huge!

Not to mention the people there are tribal, in the congo canabalism still exists, and they kill each other for the same stupid reasons gangs kill each other in the US.

I'm all for leaving them to their own devices.

tha_rami
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 21:25
if user_says( Africa == hopeless() )
user = hopeless()
endif

I can't believe how ignorantly egoistic people can be to leave the small people be the victim of their government and then complain their government isn't doing enough for them.


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n008
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 21:29
How ignorant of you, Tha_rami. I clearly stated what would have to do, but our country can't. Why would we want to watse time there? I only complain about my government in the fact that they try to police the world. That is wrong.

If we had the time, power, and money to do such as to liberate some 1 billion people and establish a western government, i would be all for it.

But we can't even secure a tiny little country in the Mid-east, much less Africa.

While we're at it, why don't we attack N. Korea, and liberate Vietnam again? They are statistically in worse positions than africa.

What say you?

AndrewT
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 21:59
I got to fourty with thesaurus.com!
But only 26 on my own.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 22:28
Quote: "How ignorant of you, Tha_rami. I clearly stated what would have to do, but our country can't. Why would we want to watse time there? I only complain about my government in the fact that they try to police the world. That is wrong."

You, my friend, are hypocrite.

The reason for that is:
Quote: "If we had the time, power, and money to do such as to liberate some 1 billion people and establish a western government, i would be all for it."


And:
Quote: "But we can't even secure a tiny little country in the Mid-east, much less Africa."


And finally:
Quote: "While we're at it, why don't we attack N. Korea, and liberate Vietnam again? They are statistically in worse positions than africa."


I say the West stays out of changing politics and helps countries of which the civilians appear to be genuinely interested in developing. If the government acts against that, we cannot help.

Democracy isn't perfect. Definitely not when it starts to feel superior and gets dictatorial tendencies.


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David R
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 22:39 Edited at: 25th Nov 2007 23:29
Quote: "but our country can't. "


There's a difference between can't and won't.

Quote: "While we're at it, why don't we attack N. Korea, and liberate Vietnam again?"


Being fair to the US, Viet Nam was during the whole 'red scare' where they wanted to do anything possible to show that they were against communism and prepared to destroy it; that is, more so against the ideology of that government rather than the government itself. Ok, it was a miserable failure, but it had a different purpose rather than to purely assist the people of Viet Nam

EDIT: + Buddhist monks burning themselves in the street is very difficult to simply ignore

EDIT2: Just realised that that has delved into politics; 100% not intended. All I meant to say was that Viet Nam etc. were more political aims rather than to assist the welfare of the people


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 25th Nov 2007 23:14
Quote: "Either we install a western government and such, forcing them to become a western style nation; or we leave them along to figure it out."

Of course... because that's worked sooo well in the past, all of the different times it's been tried .

Raven, explain this to me please: You say we should install a western government in these wartorn regions of the world, and that would help them turn their situations around... and yet you persist that capitalism has wronged you over the years?

Do you know what a ballot is in Africa? It's a model 1947 Type 2 Kalishnikov, otherwise known as an AK-47. The 7.62mm round is the pen, and every man, woman, and child is a voting machine. Do you know where these "ballots" and "pens" come from? Answer that question for me, and then tell me about how exactly the west is "helping" people in Africa. The warlords in Africa rule the continent with blood-stained iron fists. They hack off the arms of children in rival villages so they can't hold an assault rifle when they grow up and challenge the leadership. They kill anyone and everyone who opposes their rule, and even a few people who endorse it.

Do you know how they pay for all of these weapons, often purchased from western governments or western arms dealers? Diamonds, which they have an abundance of. And take a wild guess at where most of these conflict diamonds (also sometimes called "blood diamonds") end up? On the fingers and around the necks of people in the west. So you tell me what the west has given to these people: a few plane-loads of food each year? Or the fuel for decades-worth of genocides. Hmm, which is the predominant contribution here?

I don't care how much debt someone in the west is in, or how long they've been homeless for. They can pick themselves up and make something of themselves if they give it an honest, sincere try. No one puts a gun in your mouth and orders you to get a credit card. I'm 27 years old and I don't have one, and I won't have one until my financial situation is stable enough to get one... and even then I might not get one. If your current job sucks, you can put in an application for another one, one that pays more money. If you have kids, there's a few thousand government programs, in the United States anyway, that can help you out. And these programs work, providing miracles for people every bloody day. Some people in the US want to take these programs away, but you know what? They work, and with excellent results. I defy you to explain to me exactly how people in Africa have it better than you do.

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 00:28
Right I just wrote a massive political rant, saying how I don't care if I'm noob slapped and if I hit the nail, I'd be banned...then I came to my senses and deleted it before 'hitting' the post button.

n008, your perception of Africa is terribly inaccurate, what about the people born into a world that hates them? Who risk their lives by just showing their face? What about those born into a family who can't support them because they can't get decent water or food? What about those people who have to suffer the harse consequences of disagree with their corrupt government or suffer because they descend from the wrong tribe - despite trying to live a peaceful life.

But why are these countries screwed up? All I can say is that A. Their wars and weapons are funded by outsiders from the West. B. The fall of the colonial empires left a big mess after introducing Western Politics, our kind of weapons, stealing their riches and enslaving their people. As they were forced with this and didn't not the many years of development we've had to come to the civilisation we have, the tribal instincts and principles soon applied to the politics given to them and their governments easily became corrupt. And the innocents have to suffer for it.

So why do we have to help them might we ask?

The answer would probably stretch the politics in this thread too far, so I won't say it. I'll just say that our ancestors are responsible for the mess and we're exasperating it in one form or another.

I love Nancy DrewG, but not insert brain here
Drew Cameron
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 02:51
Raven: you're an idiot. Just a real idiot.

Noob slap me or whatever for that but read his posts first.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 02:53
Just when I thought it couldn't get worse...


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Venge
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 04:07
Quote: "Raven: you're an idiot. Just a real idiot."


Raven has made many valid points in the argument. What's yours? Calling people idiots because you read his post? You're saying you have a better solution then, let's hear it.
tha_rami
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 04:30
Crap venge, 100 valid points in a theory don't outlive single bad one. Personally, I found his 'valid points' to be proof of a rather egoistic and or self-centered perspective, simplified and/or from the typical western 'dominant' perspective.

Drew, in my vision, can call Raven an idiot as he is allowed to feel so, and we cannot completely explain our visions due to the restrictions on political discussion.

The better solution is to stop thinking the West is perfect, stop acting as if our way is the only way, stop thinking it's the fault of the people there and coming up with lame excuses about actors in commercials of charity organisations.


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Dr Schnitzengruber
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 07:29
Quote: "if user_says( Africa == hopeless() )
user = hopeless()
endif"


sorry, I can not leave a incorrect statment like that. You are basically saying that the property user_says() takes one boolean input. Does that mean that the user can only say boolean things? whats even wronger is the statement Africa == hopeless() (which is a constant unless Africa can start or stop being hopeless()) where the statement would determine if all users are hopeless or not. look at it this way:





tha_rami
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 07:35
Dude, wtf. Not too serious now, it was just some pseudo-code to make a point.

Which makes me wonder: does != really work in DB?


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