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Geek Culture / What happend to TGC software selling service?

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AlanC
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 02:54
I remember a long time ago, TGC offered a service that would let you sell your games/apps on their site. Well I don't see any links/info about it anymore. What happend to it? Sorry if this has been covered.



AaronG
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 03:24
...idk.

GatorHex
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 03:25
Still in the pipeline I believe. Just they been busy working on DX10 stuff.

Well if they don't want my MMORPG Creator I'm sure I'll find sum1 who will

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
game lover
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 03:25 Edited at: 12th Dec 2007 03:26
Well I heard that they might be bringing it back. I can't remember where I heard it, but idk....

We all want to be awesome, but does awesome want to be us?
Raven
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 13:48
They're still aparently working on it in secret, or behind the scenes.

FPSCX10 aparently uses it for the updating system.
But frankly who the hell knows, TGC say a lot of things and very rarely actually turns out quite how you expect.

I'd love to know what brought on the whole "selling service" thingie, cause when I suggested something similar to Steam about 2 years ago; Rick firmly believed there wasn't enough demand or need for such a project.

Told him a digital delivery system would become big, as well as strip down sales. They could've made a new networking system for DBP/FPSC that tied in to it much like live and steam as well. To me that would've been a much better useage of time, than these DirectX10 products.

Look at how well Steam and Live are doing now (even PSN Store), they're accounting for huge sales. Having something similar would not only have provided TGC with a decent forum for external advertisers to focus on (extra revenue) but also no one would need to hunt for plugins, model packs, etc. it'd all just be right there.

Offering publishing capabilities for games (like those from the PhysX competition that were quite high quality) that were completed, would not only helped solify their position but also make it feel like they did really care about the community, as well as providing something for people to just use who don't own TGC products.

Hell the best part would be they could've finally switched to a runtime over embedded library set for both DBP, FPSC, and the created titles.

Plus two years ago doing this and establishing something that users have to use would've made them innovative; prior to the digital delivery boom, especially if they had done other deals to enhance the experience (i.e. downloadable movies, tv shows, etc..) instead they'll be lucky to be doing this in the wake of much larger more established services.

2 years back Steam was basically only Valve games, now it's doing ridiculous business with 3rd party titles.

About the only way I see TGC being able to get a service on par that people will accept, would be to basically make a deal with Microsoft to expand to their live service. That really would be expensive though.

I really feel they've missed the entire boat on this, and really would be better off using someone elses service.

Zappo
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 14:42
Personally I am not a fan of things like Steam, where you have to download an application in order to order, download and run the games you want. I know others love it, but its not for me. I much prefer just buying software through a secure Web site.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
KeithC
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 15:12
I payed for a physical copy of Half Life 2 (came on a DVD); come to find out that it still required me to download the ENTIRE game from Steam. I am on dial-up so that's not an option. I'll never buy anything that uses Steam in the future. They're taking the protection thing way too far, by punishing the people who pay for the game. Why did they even bother putting a DVD in the case?

It says on the case that an internet connection is required...it should have said that a "high-speed" connection is required. Half Life 2 continues to sit on my desk...unused.

-Keith

Grandma
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 15:52
^Ouch. I didn't know you had to do that even after owning the physical version.

I never liked steam.

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

Making yesterdays games, today!
Chris K
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 15:56
You don't have to, you have to download an update or something but it is still big.

-= Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals =-
KeithC
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 16:13
Nope; it told me it was downloading the game itself (a few GBs in size).

FredP
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 16:30
If you buy it in the store or online you still have to download it and the Steam client...which is the reason HL isn't on mine anymore.Steam is such a pain in the ass and they make you use the Steam client to play any of the HL games...even if you don't ever plan on playing online.I can understand you needing to get online to verify your game or something but to force people to be connected to it whether they want to or not is simply crazy.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 16:48
It will be implemented in FPSCX10 for FPSCX10. I'm sure that they'll expand it to include other things as well.


Come see the WIP!
Raven
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 17:38
Quote: "I payed for a physical copy of Half Life 2 (came on a DVD); come to find out that it still required me to download the ENTIRE game from Steam. I am on dial-up so that's not an option. I'll never buy anything that uses Steam in the future. They're taking the protection thing way too far, by punishing the people who pay for the game. Why did they even bother putting a DVD in the case?"


I have the DVD version (got given it after i bought the steam version on release), doesn't download the entire game again on steam. It does a big update though, something like 800MB.

Cause they added Episode 1 (Lost Coast) Engine features to it. You can disable the update option though and simply play but you still need a connection for playing though as it decrypts each time.

Kinda silly and annoying imo, but they've improved this with their newer releases. The Steam service has seriously improved over the years from when they first introduced it.

Now it's simply a case of getting the disc or downloading (after installing steam which is like 12MB in total) that often comes on disc too, sign in and your away.

It's obvious they've been learning lessons and taking a leaf from Microsoft's Live book.

Problem I see with most current services available is they just don't really offer something that is simple to just use. I've been a huge supporter of Live Marketplace on the 360 because it's a simple case of download and play right there and then.
Uninstalling is a simple case of deleting it.

There is nothing like it for the PC yet, which is a damn shame given there is more potential there. You'd have though the new Media Center with Vista Premium/Ultimate would've been based around the Xbox Dashboard with Live built in but oddly it's just the XP version updated. Kinda makes it almost pointless.

Quote: "If you buy it in the store or online you still have to download it and the Steam client...which is the reason HL isn't on mine anymore.Steam is such a pain in the ass and they make you use the Steam client to play any of the HL games...even if you don't ever plan on playing online.I can understand you needing to get online to verify your game or something but to force people to be connected to it whether they want to or not is simply crazy."


True, I mean this is something I dislike about Steam is while sure it is secure for those using Steam itself but once something is unlocked you can just play it without steam at all.

Doesn't really stop piracy the way it's made, so why even bother past making sure an account has access to it.

I quite like Microsoft's Windows Marketplace Bitlocker system, not yet seen that broken.. probably has been but still seems secure enough and after something is unlocked you no longer have to be online.

The 360 uses a very nice system for disabling access to secure areas of the Hard Disk, people have yet to break it's security. As it uses a different file system that is defined only in the hidden part of the disk. Don't know why they didn't use that in Vista

KeithC
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 18:32
Quote: "Doesn't really stop piracy the way it's made, so why even bother past making sure an account has access to it."

Exactly, so why piss off the paying customers? Why is it easier and faster to play a pirated version of a game? It's ridiculous. Of course, if/when it starts affecting their bottomline they may do something to change it. Going with Steam was one of the stupidest moves Valve could make (other than letting the source be stolen in the first place), IMO. As a result, I will most likely never buy any of Valve's titles again...no matter how good they may be.

Quote: "It does a big update though, something like 800MB."

Which may as well be 800GB on dial-up. Why should I tie up my phone line for days, because they don't want to give me what I paid for...on the DVD that came with it?

-Keith

Lucifer
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 19:12
Quote: "Which may as well be 800GB on dial-up. Why should I tie up my phone line for days, because they don't want to give me what I paid for...on the DVD that came with it?"


you're supposed to start with installing the game off the dvd, then going into steam and play it, if you dont want to download the updates i think you can press some pause download button or something. I didnt have to download the entire game.

but the real question is, why on earth are you on dial up?

Free music @ www.Soundclick.com\Peacemaker
KeithC
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 19:21
Quote: "but the real question is, why on earth are you on dial up?"

Not my choice; even though I live in a well-populated area, high-speed internet providers choose not to give us service...for whatever reason.

I thought I was installing the game off of the disk (after downloading the Steam garbage and installing it), but I had to cancel it because it was tying up my phoneline. After that I tried to install it again, and it told me that I would now have to install it from the Steam servers (around 2GB).

WAY too much of a hassle for a game that was paid for.

-Keith

David R
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 20:48
Quote: "I payed for a physical copy of Half Life 2 (came on a DVD); come to find out that it still required me to download the ENTIRE game from Steam.."


The irony is, that you would complain bitterly if the not-up-to-date version crashed your machine.

So Valve, nor any developer, can win either way


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Raven
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 21:39
Quote: "The irony is, that you would complain bitterly if the not-up-to-date version crashed your machine."


heh so true
and tbh the version of steam it comes with more often than not will crash Windows.. found it a pain to install on XP and Vista (although 2000 ran it fine)


Quote: "thought I was installing the game off of the disk (after downloading the Steam garbage and installing it), but I had to cancel it because it was tying up my phoneline. After that I tried to install it again, and it told me that I would now have to install it from the Steam servers (around 2GB)."


The disc install takes around 20 to 30min still not figure out why mind given it basically just installs steam then installs half life 2 (by install copies)

Infact found it quicker to open up the .cabs and just copy the files manually after installing steam from online.

you'd probably be best of activating your serial, then installing the game as it'll overwrite any download going on, then simply "validate cache"

I'd seriously recommend that if you can get cellphone service using a 3G or Edge broadband modem. Beats dial up and works basically anywhere phones do.

Have one for my laptop atm I pay about £10/month for which gives me 1Mbit performance. Not amazing, but better than nothing.

FredP
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 21:50
Like I said before,Keith...I hope you at least got some birthday beer to make it all better...
Keith can tell you that some people don't have the option of high speed internet.
...amazing,ain't it?
I lived somewhere where I had dial-up (and poor at that) and that was it.
If I would have had to download some of the stuff I have on that dial-up connection I'd still be waiting...

...and crying.
TGC does have plans for some kind of online store.We just have to wait and see what they are.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
Peter H
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 22:07 Edited at: 12th Dec 2007 22:09
Quote: "The irony is, that you would complain bitterly if the not-up-to-date version crashed your machine."

you shouldn't release a piece of software and charge for it if it crashes your client's computer

he would have every right to complain if they did that. Updates shouldn't be required, if the game does require a update to work, then the creator of that game should be stumbling over themselves trying to help the client not brushing them off.

there is a little known quality in this world that we like to call "responsibility"

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
FredP
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 22:27
Quote: "there is a little known quality in this world that we like to call "responsibility""


Damn right.Since when is it my responsibility to fix something that is broken when I bought it?Unfortunately,returning broken software is not as easy as returning a broken lawn mower.
Until you can play the games without the Steam crap I'll just have to wait to play the copy of HL I bought off the internet.
No problems downloading Steam...just really hated to have to ask Steam's permission to check my e-mail,have a beer or take a leak.
Steam is way too invasive to my system and takes up system resources even if you don't use it.And I know you can shut it off but then it takes ten times longer to restart the game you want to play because you have to reconnect and sign back in and all that.
Not to mention that this allows Steam to have information they don't need as well.It's nobody's business how much of a game I play or when I play it...except my girlfriend's...and that's just because she's got a dough roller to bash me with...
...one day I am gonna get my own dough roller...and POW!Right to the moon...

Please have mercy and use the search function.
Insert Name Here
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 22:32
I'm scared of your girlfriend.
But more scared of her dough roller.


Sudoku arts, the rabi and Nancy DrewG
Jeku
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 22:33
Quote: "Cause they added Episode 1 (Lost Coast) Engine features to it."


Not to nitpick, but Episode 1 and Lost Coast are completely different products

Quote: "The irony is, that you would complain bitterly if the not-up-to-date version crashed your machine."


Agreed. The 800MB are patches to make the game stable and better. Be thankful they even patch their games. There is no such thing as a bug-free game, but most developers might release 1 or 2 patches and then stop, regardless of what's left.

Jeku
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 22:39
Sorry, double post:

Quote: "he would have every right to complain if they did that. Updates shouldn't be required, if the game does require a update to work, then the creator of that game should be stumbling over themselves trying to help the client not brushing them off."


That is not reality. Even Uncharted, the most polished game on the PS3 in my opinion, crashed on me once. There is *NO* such thing as a bug-free commercial game, so patching is a good thing. Don't mistake a fix as "laziness" on the developer's end during development

Peter H
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 22:41 Edited at: 12th Dec 2007 22:43
on a completely unrelated tangent i've never had any console game crash on me

i agree that there isn't any such thing as a bug free commercial game... but there should be very, very, few bugs that cause the game to crash.

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 22:54
Update: It's still being developed!

I don't remember any of those ideas from you Raven, when did you tell me all that?

Financial Director
TGC Team
[Check out Jed McKenna - http://www.wisefoolpress.com/]
BatVink
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 22:57
Sorry, I'm confused Raven. You say that making DX10 products is a waste of time and too soon, yet a digital delivery system would have been innovative, and they have now missed the boat?

David R
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 23:25 Edited at: 12th Dec 2007 23:27
Quote: "on a completely unrelated tangent i've never had any console game crash on me"


You shouldn't, obviously - targeting a static environment (hardware + software) it is much easier to iron out bugs and issues than on PCs - because the way it plays on one console is pretty much how it will play on all of those consoles.

Quote: "but there should be very, very, few bugs that cause the game to crash."


Coping with every possible combination of environments + inputs is nigh-impossible. It's great to say "there should be XYZ quantity of bugs", but how you go about doing that is a totally different thing. Heck, we should all know this; look at DBP :p


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Peter H
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 23:30 Edited at: 12th Dec 2007 23:31
Quote: "You shouldn't, obviously - targeting a static environment (hardware + software) it is much easier to iron out bugs and issues than on PCs - because the way it plays on one console is pretty much how it will play on all of those consoles."

true, but not really what i was answering.

Quote: "Even Uncharted, the most polished game on the PS3 in my opinion, crashed on me once."

Quote: "on a completely unrelated tangent i've never had any console game crash on me "


^i think it will all come together for you^

so maybe i'm an idealist
cheers.

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 23:37
Quote: "I am on dial-up so that's not an option."

Then move to the 21st century and get rid of dial-up .


David R
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Posted: 12th Dec 2007 23:41
Quote: "^i think it will all come together for you^"


Doesn't really, you're comparing your experience on all consoles versus one console... doesn't really make a lot of sense, considering I don't even know whether you own a PS3


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
KeithC
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Posted: 13th Dec 2007 00:07
Hey...hey....let's get back to the subject of Steam sucking...

Quote: "Agreed. The 800MB are patches to make the game stable and better. Be thankful they even patch their games. There is no such thing as a bug-free game, but most developers might release 1 or 2 patches and then stop, regardless of what's left."

I would partially agree with you....if I could actually play the game in the first place. I hold no sympathy for them whatsoever. Sure I'd complain about it; but at least I'd have the chance to play the game itself....right?

Quote: "Then move to the 21st century and get rid of dial-up."

Like I said; I'd love to, but no one is offering it in our area. I can't make them offer it......or can I?

-Keith

n008
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Posted: 13th Dec 2007 00:16
Quote: "Like I said; I'd love to, but no one is offering it in our area. I can't make them offer it......or can I?"


Just make one of them think one of the others is giving you a bargain when you try to get a quote, that always works!

Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 13th Dec 2007 00:18
Quote: "Like I said; I'd love to, but no one is offering it in our area. I can't make them offer it......or can I?
"

There are ways, there are ways .


FredP
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Posted: 13th Dec 2007 01:08
Quote: "on a completely unrelated tangent i've never had any console game crash on me "

I have.I was trying to play a game on the PS2 and it crashed on me because I had a memory stick in the USB port.Had a wide variety of games crash on me on consoles for various reasons...even the Atari 2600 and the NES (remember having to blow out the consoles and the cartridges?).


Quote: "I don't remember any of those ideas from you Raven, when did you tell me all that?"
-Rick Vanner.

My new favorite quote...I am close to making it my new sig...

Now Rick has confirmed that this is a WIP by TGC (and obviously won't be until after the holidays).They are probably trying to keep up with FPSC x10 and getting ready to enjoy a nice holiday.
Those guys need a break.

@Rick Vanner,
Thank you very much for taking time out of your schedule to address this.We know you are busy.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
Raven
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Posted: 13th Dec 2007 01:59
Quote: "I don't remember any of those ideas from you Raven, when did you tell me all that?"


It was about 2 maybe 3 years ago now, I suggested a product similar to Steam for the digital delivery of TGC products.

Lots of people at the time had been sending me quite a number of tech support about their copies of DBP not being able to activate over the internet, I had suggest a bittorrent system with encrypted (possibly through SHA or AES) would help if the clients tied in to each other for distribution then simply accessed the online database for the actual purchase and unlocking.

You told me it wasn't financially viable, didn't believe enough people would use (or want) such a service as well as the banking system you guys used (worldpay iirc) might not be compatible.

I'd suggested it with the intent that not only could you update and centralise all of your products to the same digital delivery system that was behind the scenes, but also that you could then offer publishing to those making games, software, plugins, etc... rather than relying on purely your own products or deals with larger companies.

I also noted about the advertisment potencial by loaning out the boot up of trial/demo products as well as the news/boot splash providing advertising space.

Guess it's one of those ideas I offered that no one really paid attention to

Quote: "Sorry, I'm confused Raven. You say that making DX10 products is a waste of time and too soon, yet a digital delivery system would have been innovative, and they have now missed the boat?"


Back when I was suggesting it, Digital Delivery was in it's infancy. Lots of people were bitching about Steam, and Xbox Marketplace was yet to appear to show a viable (and very profitable) way of doing thing.

I'm not saying so much that they won't be able to improve their current standing by centralising everything, but if they had moved on this concept far sooner than they have; they could've been able to capture the casual market as the digital publisher. Before Valve, Microsoft or Gametap got their grubby hooks into it.

Steam has been making Valve silly money since they opened it up to 3rd parties, can't help but think that if TGC had acted on the idea they might currently be in a very powerful position.

To me catering to an untapped market with huge potencial with a product that people really need rather than something that adds graphical fluff; is much better business sense.

TGC still might be able to capture some of the untapped market potential with a digital delivery system; but really a question I would want to pose is do you still see it as a waste of time?
At the end of the day this is what it comes down to, many of the products from TGC of late do certainly look as is they might bridge a gap that people want. Problem has been the end results.

I'd love to see that change, perhaps FPSCX10 will mark this change.. but I have serious doubts.

Guyra
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Posted: 13th Dec 2007 03:07
Quote: "Like I said; I'd love to, but no one is offering it in our area. I can't make them offer it......or can I? "

It's a simple matter of convincing arguments and bombs.
FredP
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Posted: 13th Dec 2007 05:21
Quote: "I'd love to see that change, perhaps FPSCX10 will mark this change.. but I have serious doubts."


Feel free to doubt your way on down the road...
I swear you could put a fertilizer factory out of business...

Please have mercy and use the search function.
tha_rami
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Posted: 13th Dec 2007 05:31 Edited at: 13th Dec 2007 05:32
Quote: "I will most likely never buy any of Valve's titles again...no matter how good they may be."

Wow, that's stupid of you. Almost as stupid as Steam is.


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
ionstream
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Posted: 13th Dec 2007 05:51
I have a hard copy of Half Life 2, and it did not make me download it from Steam.

Quote: "you shouldn't release a piece of software and charge for it if it crashes your client's computer"


It's the other way around, you shouldn't buy software that will crash on your computer. Companies fix bugs because they know they will lose business if they don't, and earn a bad reputation, but they are in no way morally obligated to do so.

That's not as bad as you think you said.
Kevin Picone
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Posted: 13th Dec 2007 06:42
It's certainly still on the agenda if the X10 license is anything to go by. Although, the license here has been watered down since then.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=117281&b=33

FredP
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Posted: 13th Dec 2007 06:47
The x10 license is simple and more than fair.You make less than $5000 it's all yours.If you make $5000 or more you give TGC a cut.
Simple,easy to understand...what they plan on doing for the license as far as x10 model packs remains to be seen.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
Kevin Picone
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Posted: 13th Dec 2007 06:53
FredP
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Location: Indiana
Posted: 13th Dec 2007 07:33
Nobody...I was kind of making a reference to the license and the changes made to it in the thread that you posted the link to.
Nothing to do with anyone in particular.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
dark coder
22
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Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: Japan
Posted: 13th Dec 2007 11:05
I take it I'm the only one in this community that likes steam? I've personally had next to no problems with it over the past 2+years or so, in fact the patching process is very useful, with most games that I have that aren't on steam downloading patches is a huge hassle as I must first find a mirror that isn't capped at 100kb/s, install it and if I need to reinstall the game I must do the same process again. With steam I just load the application and that's it, it does it in the background.

The only issue I see with TGC making their own version is that I'd hate to have lots of applications of the same nature, I currently only have steam installed and my other games are on disk but having 2-3 applications that do the same thing as steam would be rather annoying as they often have friend features where you have to add everyone again, you get lots of popup windows telling you about messages and all sorts. Especially if you only plan to buy one or two games, I have quite a few games on steam so its installation is quite justified.

Raven
19
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 13th Dec 2007 13:03
Quote: "Feel free to doubt your way on down the road...
I swear you could put a fertilizer factory out of business..."


Fanboys while a guarenteed source of money are often what hold products back from becoming great or lull a company into a false sense of security about how well their product has realistically been recieved.

From what I can tell FPSCx10 changes include, MultiCore enhancements (not for runtime, but building lightmaps and other such generation), improved AI and better graphics.

There has been no mention what so ever of the UI being changed from 3D to 2D which quite frankly often I found the original UI would slow down long long before anything I would make in it would. There quite honestly is no need for a full 3D interface, especially not the way it is presented.

The AI wouldn't really need to be internally improved if the scripting system was worthwhile, if they're keeping with the old scripting system then frankly it will just remain just as much of a pain if not more with the new functionality to support.

The UI on the whole has too little on the surface and too much below.

To me from the start FPSC looks and feels like a budget development team have worked on it with little concept of what is actually wanted for games or a sense of usability to someone who has never touch programming or scripting of any sort. Even those who have the program is a veritable nightmare to edit anything remotely complex for.

Will FPSCX10 carry on this tradition? Part of DirectX10 for Microsoft is that they're basically having a new start. Saying goodby to the runtimes of old, and older hardware. They've been fortunate enough to redevelop everything from the ground up with little impact on current games and applications being use.

TGC surely must've known about many of the underlying problems with both FPSC and DBP... why cling to the old when DirectX10 gives them a fresh start.

Only keep compatibility if you're willing to provide it COMPLETELY, not a case of "well this may or may not work".. In the end I can see backward capability going the same was as DBPs, which begs the question of "Why the hell bother at all?". Why not provide a better product rather than limiting yourself by backward compatibility you know in the end you'll just end up not supporting because you don't have the resources.

People will care more about a product that works and is simple to do what they want, rather than something that looks good and kinda works with the old product they may or may not have.

While I'm not saying don't provide something for those upgrading, there is no way FPSC was successful enough to be able to say "yes, I'm happy with our current demographic"; Hell I know for a fact that T3DGM until upto November was still outselling everything else. So it would've made more sense to orientate FPSCX10 to perhaps have features similar allowing more game types to be created.

I've not tried (believe there is a demo out) the new FPSCX10, and tbh I really don't intend to. After using the original for doing tech support I had high hopes that enevitable were dashed when I installed it and the damn thing crashed the first 3 installations.

After that it was just downhill. Honestly made me seriously question is those involved in developing it even like games, particularly FPS games. Cause it really doesn't look like it to me.

Quote: "It's the other way around, you shouldn't buy software that will crash on your computer. Companies fix bugs because they know they will lose business if they don't, and earn a bad reputation, but they are in no way morally obligated to do so."


To echo, PCs aren't like Consoles.
There isn't a single specification to work towards, sometimes hardware is compatible, sometimes it isn't. It isn't always entirely obvious when you're trying to optimise and squeeze some extra cycles out.

Hell some drivers might be compatible one month, the next cause crashes all over the place.

Patches are a necessart evil of the open specification platform. This said, I do agree that some companies rely on the fact you can patch post release to rush out something more shoddy ::coughcainandlinchcough::

(And DarkCoder I also quite like Steam, I've currently bought somewhere around 35 titles on it although I think 20 are Valve ones. I really enjoy using Steam, but as you've mentioned why have more than one product if it does the job well.

that really is my point on TGC missing the boat. Steam is now fully established as the digital distribution system. There's no way to really capture the market they've gained without expanding out to things they might not want to, might not yet, or even may never offer.

question is though, will TGC do their usual thing of that they know best for retailing something; or will they actually admit they don't know what they're doing and atleast get some research done on the subject.

personally I reckon they don't even see the potential for such a service and will just keep it as something for their own products, perhaps some special case titles others develop.

KeithC
Senior Moderator
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 13th Dec 2007 13:30
Quote: "Wow, that's stupid of you. Almost as stupid as Steam is"

Nope; not stupid, just my choice; just like it was my choice not to delete your post.

Raven
19
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 13th Dec 2007 13:54
Quote: "Nope; not stupid, just my choice; just like it was my choice not to delete your post."


You're only allowed to delete/edit posts in the FPSC forum, and only in extreme circumstances. Not for personal reasons.

Baffles me how you still have moderator status given your attitude towards the responsibility.

KeithC
Senior Moderator
19
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Joined: 27th Oct 2005
Location: Michigan
Posted: 13th Dec 2007 14:16
Wrong again, Raven.....wrong again.

Raven
19
Years of Service
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 13th Dec 2007 14:28
Quote: "Wrong again, Raven.....wrong again."


Yeah, I'll believe that I'm wrong about what you are and aren't allowed to do if Rick or Rich tell me.
Somehow I doubt I am though.

I had no end of trouble with people complaining about you and the other FPSC moderators while doing tech support, more over Rick and Rich last time you banned me said you have over stepped your bounds and they'd look in to it.

Although after the first response in this thread, I'd guess that it may have ended up being simply forgotten about; which would explain why you're still running around like a little forum nazi, threatening users.

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