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Geek Culture / Stop School Shootings - a game idea

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Posted: 15th Feb 2008 09:46
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Ok, i've had this idea about making a game about school shootings. like you don't do the shooting, you have to stop it. i thought about using real school shooters and how you go to a different level after you complete it. i don't know whether i want it to be that the undead corpses of the shooters come back to life to kill again or that you are a time cop who must stop school shootings from happening. I'm just lost in the whole plot idea. might not even make this yet but i want to make at least a design document so i can put it on hold, you know?

"Originally I was going to have a BS on it but you know how that would be. I can't walk around with the letters BS on me." More or less a qoute by Syndrome from Jack, Jack, attack
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Van B
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Posted: 15th Feb 2008 09:53
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That's so politically incorrect you should forget the whole idea.

You simply can't feature anything relating to children's death, not unless your looking for a whole load of outrage.


less is more, but if less is more how you keeping score?
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Feb 2008 10:10
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It's so loose an idea that I think you might need to consider some things...one of which VanB has conveniently highlighted.

'Stopping School Shootings' if you were ever going to even consider making a game about such a harsh subject, you'd have to approach it tactfully. Violence against violence is not a lesson you want to teach for a start - in something as real to life as this. Zombies are too much of a novelty that it immediately removes how the game is to be taken seriously and thus becomes offensive. (because it makes it seem too satirical)

Come to think of it, I don't think there is a tactful way to handle such a game, so I'd probably put a 'no' here...I don't think games are capable of handling such issues, hence people have written books, plays and movies about the whole thing. (Like 'Bang, bang you're dead')

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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 15th Feb 2008 11:58
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This goes in game design theory.

But... yeah, you can't do this with schools... you could use the same idea but at an office, maybe.

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Dazzag
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Posted: 15th Feb 2008 16:55
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Only possible way I could see how this wouldn't end in you looking really bad, would be to make it a game where you stop them *before* they even get into the school. ie. The moment they step off the school bus then the game ends and you fail. But making a game where you notice which kids are going to be the ones who really are going to go crazy and then spy on them and stop them sounds far better than I'm betting it would really be to play.

On the other hand this sort of thing didn't stop substandard games from reaching massive outrage (even globally) in no time. Which, morales aside, means much more money. Anyone remember that JFK game that I think some Scottish blokes wrote? Game was rubbish, but everyone heard about it.

Cheers

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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 15th Feb 2008 17:20
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I've had the same idea before. The political incorrectness didn't stop me, the lack of skill to actually make it did.

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Posted: 15th Feb 2008 17:32
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Good think i asked before wasting time and resources on the subject.........

"Originally I was going to have a BS on it but you know how that would be. I can't walk around with the letters BS on me." More or less a qoute by Syndrome from Jack, Jack, attack
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tha_rami
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Posted: 16th Feb 2008 08:25
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I have an idea. We should supply all kids with AK47s so that they can defend themselves against people with guns!


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power mousey
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Posted: 16th Feb 2008 09:08
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Lover of Games,

how about using these as school shooters- alien monsters and even those mutant baby spider things from Cloverfield, Nazi SS storm troopers, alien entities, and also zombies and vampires. Heck, even retro disco zombies too.
Like they do in all kinds of first and third person shooter games. But it first starts at the Nuclear Power Plant, then a school or two, and then other places in the city or town.

here is one and one brief synopsis: Homer while eating donuts drops a bunch of them on the control panel. In horror and shock, he cleans and sucks them in his mouth but his drool mixes weirdly and inadvertly causing a near meltdown and weird configuration at the power plant.
He unknowlingly opens a portal from a dead dimension of donut eating zombies. They'll bite and attack humans but mostly go for the donuts and other junk food products.
Under the evilness of Miste Burns, Burns takes control of them and the whole world. But first he needs more members in his monopoly. He attacks the Springfiled Elemtary school for more willing donut eating, obesitic, sugar prone, and tv addicting kids.
Burns: "to take the world, it must start with the schools and with the kids in particular. hahhahaha!!"

But you the hero, being the Bartman, or Lisa or even Maggie find out somehow and with your kid friends help stop the madness of sugar rushed, carbohydarted bloatness and addiction of donut zombieness. And the junkityness of junk food.

Would make a good Treehouse of Horror episode too.

"_"
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Posted: 16th Feb 2008 22:02
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Quote: "Lover of Games,

how about using these as school shooters- alien monsters and even those mutant baby spider things from Cloverfield, Nazi SS storm troopers, alien entities, and also zombies and vampires. Heck, even retro disco zombies too.
Like they do in all kinds of first and third person shooter games. But it first starts at the Nuclear Power Plant, then a school or two, and then other places in the city or town.

here is one and one brief synopsis: Homer while eating donuts drops a bunch of them on the control panel. In horror and shock, he cleans and sucks them in his mouth but his drool mixes weirdly and inadvertly causing a near meltdown and weird configuration at the power plant.
He unknowlingly opens a portal from a dead dimension of donut eating zombies. They'll bite and attack humans but mostly go for the donuts and other junk food products.
Under the evilness of Miste Burns, Burns takes control of them and the whole world. But first he needs more members in his monopoly. He attacks the Springfiled Elemtary school for more willing donut eating, obesitic, sugar prone, and tv addicting kids.
Burns: "to take the world, it must start with the schools and with the kids in particular. hahhahaha!!"

But you the hero, being the Bartman, or Lisa or even Maggie find out somehow and with your kid friends help stop the madness of sugar rushed, carbohydarted bloatness and addiction of donut zombieness. And the junkityness of junk food.

Would make a good Treehouse of Horror episode too. "


I get it, i get it, but they make tv shows about it and all, so i figured why can't i make a video game based on it. i was just trying to make a game that tries to give you the answers about why this stuff happened. like an evil force takes control of kids with so much anger and makes them do evil, you know? I guess having games about WWII is different then actually making a game based on things that happen often....Still, i don't know, i feel very strongly about it. Don't think i'm into killing people cause i'm not. I simply want to get some answers as to what makes a person do these things, be it the devil, or some higher power that wants revenge against someone who wronged him and is too much of a coward to do it himself so he gets others to do it. But what ever. at least this threed didn't get locked. I appreciate it

"Originally I was going to have a BS on it but you know how that would be. I can't walk around with the letters BS on me." More or less a qoute by Syndrome from Jack, Jack, attack
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Trinity Pictures
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Posted: 17th Feb 2008 15:51
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I know an attempted school shooter. This is not a good game idea.

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Posted: 17th Feb 2008 18:32
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....ok well back to the drowing board......Might just maker "Alone"

"Originally I was going to have a BS on it but you know how that would be. I can't walk around with the letters BS on me." More or less a qoute by Syndrome from Jack, Jack, attack
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Opposing force
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Posted: 17th Feb 2008 18:51
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Someone made an RPG based on the Columbine school shootings. I think he made it for he same reason as you're saying but it didn't go down too well with other people.

http://www.freewebs.com/teammegabasic/
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 17th Feb 2008 19:17
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Quote: "Someone made an RPG based on the Columbine school shootings. I think he made it for he same reason as you're saying but it didn't go down too well with other people."


I think your correct, that he made it for the same reason, I can't really remember though. I did a research paper on video game violence and I remember reading about this.

You have to keep in mind though that with a subject as touchy as this, you'll get both sides. People who understand it, and people who want to sound the 'politically correct' alarm.

While I disagree with the maker of the columbine's tactics at getting the message across, it was kind of genius in a way (ironic?) of how he used an obscene amount of carnage to turn the player off. Of course, there are some players out there who don't seem to have a carnage limit though lol. So the effectiveness of it was questionable, leading it furthur down the pipes.

I would stick with the game idea dude. But, I urge you with very strong words of caution, find a middle ground and do as many unique things with it as you can. Find yourself a mission statement for the game and tape it to your monitor to remind you what your doing this for. I like Dazzags idea about the bus, that was very creative, but it probably wouldn't work for you because it's about school shootings... without a school.

Just other ideas but you could assume the role of a police officer on duty at the school, part of the swat who comes in, a detective who pieces it all together, a reporter who travels inside the school. You could even do some duke nukem/metal gear solid stuff in the game maybe too. It's about thinking outside the box. Maybe trying thinking about different perspectives other than the characters killing or evading being killed. This would help you to find a 'neutral' response quicker from your audience instead of a negative one.

One last bit of advice... the hardest part for a developer is to share the storyline or message WITHOUT taking away from the fun factor of the game. We all have stories we all want to tell or messages we want to share, but what it comes down to is... is your game fun? Can it keep people coming back?

My two cents



"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" -Isaac Newton
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Posted: 17th Feb 2008 19:29
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Quote: "Quote: "Someone made an RPG based on the Columbine school shootings. I think he made it for he same reason as you're saying but it didn't go down too well with other people."

I think your correct, that he made it for the same reason, I can't really remember though. I did a research paper on video game violence and I remember reading about this.

You have to keep in mind though that with a subject as touchy as this, you'll get both sides. People who understand it, and people who want to sound the 'politically correct' alarm.

While I disagree with the maker of the columbine's tactics at getting the message across, it was kind of genius in a way (ironic?) of how he used an obscene amount of carnage to turn the player off. Of course, there are some players out there who don't seem to have a carnage limit though lol. So the effectiveness of it was questionable, leading it furthur down the pipes.

I would stick with the game idea dude. But, I urge you with very strong words of caution, find a middle ground and do as many unique things with it as you can. Find yourself a mission statement for the game and tape it to your monitor to remind you what your doing this for. I like Dazzags idea about the bus, that was very creative, but it probably wouldn't work for you because it's about school shootings... without a school.

Just other ideas but you could assume the role of a police officer on duty at the school, part of the swat who comes in, a detective who pieces it all together, a reporter who travels inside the school. You could even do some duke nukem/metal gear solid stuff in the game maybe too. It's about thinking outside the box. Maybe trying thinking about different perspectives other than the characters killing or evading being killed. This would help you to find a 'neutral' response quicker from your audience instead of a negative one.

One last bit of advice... the hardest part for a developer is to share the storyline or message WITHOUT taking away from the fun factor of the game. We all have stories we all want to tell or messages we want to share, but what it comes down to is... is your game fun? Can it keep people coming back?

My two cents "


i'll think about it. I mean i know it's a touchy subject and allit's why i posted this on here so that i wouldn't waste time and resources on making it.

"Originally I was going to have a BS on it but you know how that would be. I can't walk around with the letters BS on me." More or less a qoute by Syndrome from Jack, Jack, attack
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 17th Feb 2008 19:37
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Don't make it. It's too politically incorrect and it wouldn't even be fun, imho.


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Posted: 17th Feb 2008 20:53 Edited at: 17th Feb 2008 20:57
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Quote: "Don't make it. It's too politically incorrect and it wouldn't even be fun, imho."


MOD EDIT, please be thoughtful about the terms you use.

"Originally I was going to have a BS on it but you know how that would be. I can't walk around with the letters BS on me." More or less a qoute by Syndrome from Jack, Jack, attack
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Dazzag
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Posted: 17th Feb 2008 21:04
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Quote: "I like Dazzags idea about the bus, that was very creative, but it probably wouldn't work for you because it's about school shootings... without a school."
Ah, not quite. I was thinking more of a game like The Great Escape (ZX Spectrum game). So you play a kid just going to school. If you don't follow the schedule (correct class rooms, assembly, school bus etc) then you get in trouble. As you go about things then all school kids act differently. You have to decide which ones are the nutters. Spy on them, follow them, bug them, whatever. Then before they actually do go on a killing spree you stop them somehow (shop them into cops with proper evidence). Obviously if you get in trouble for going off schedule then could miss important stuff. Important point is you don't know which kids they are and could get the wrong ones. Also if you don't even let the player know the point of the game (stopping killers) then could be even more interesting.

Cheers

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 17th Feb 2008 21:15
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Quote: "Ah, not quite. I was thinking more of a game like The Great Escape (ZX Spectrum game). So you play a kid just going to school. If you don't follow the schedule (correct class rooms, assembly, school bus etc) then you get in trouble. As you go about things then all school kids act differently. You have to decide which ones are the nutters. Spy on them, follow them, bug them, whatever. Then before they actually do go on a killing spree you stop them somehow (shop them into cops with proper evidence). Obviously if you get in trouble for going off schedule then could miss important stuff. Important point is you don't know which kids they are and could get the wrong ones. Also if you don't even let the player know the point of the game (stopping killers) then could be even more interesting."


Oh ok, I get what you mean now Actually, that isn't to bad of an idea. Your idea is even better than before!

Quote: "Don't make it. It's too politically incorrect and it wouldn't even be fun, imho."


I'm sure that's what people said about Grand Theft Auto, but it's pretty popular. I mean come on, if developers can make games where you can have sex with a prostitute and then are able to kill her to get your money back, what harm can a game with a good message about school shootings do? Likewise, if developers can make a game called "bully" where you play as a school bully, then why not make a game that is easily more ethical than it. What logical sense does that make?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 17th Feb 2008 21:47
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Uh, bully and gta were both created by rockstar


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Benjamin
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Posted: 17th Feb 2008 21:48
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I would steer clear of any idea that might help 'popularise' school shootings.

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 17th Feb 2008 22:30 Edited at: 17th Feb 2008 22:36
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Quote: "I would steer clear of any idea that might help 'popularise' school shootings."


@Gil as well as the quoted:

I'm just playing the devil's advocate now, so no flames shooting out of people's eyes, but... we popularize other things far worse, so what makes school shootings the taboo game? We popularize gang violence, wars and assassinations, killing of civilians and prostitutes, ect, ect... so what's wrong with these elements being showcased in, what is essentially a mini-society, school?

I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything, please don't take it this way. I just find it very interesting that schools shootings are taboo, and everything else is fair game. I'm trying to get us all to do some critical thinking instead of just putting down comments on either side.

So the main question I pose to all of you is:

1. What makes school shootings taboo and everything else fair game?

Secondary questions are:

1. Can that 'taboo' part that we identify, be taken out of a game about school shootings to make the game acceptable?

2. If a game that sends the message of 'school shootings are bad' is developed, why would it be worse than developing a game promoting school shootings OR be worse than what some of most controversial games on the market now.

Again, just throwing these questions out for critical thinking and for playing the devil's advocate. Lets keep the answers flame free and nice. Think of this is a team building exercise

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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 01:39
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there have been stories about kids getting arrested for making counterstrike maps of their school. In fact me and my buddies were going to do that at some point but we decided its better not to.

in my opinion its stupid that these idiots are trying to stop it

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tha_rami
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 02:26
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Politically incorrect shouldn't stop video-games.


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 04:21
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Quote: "Politically incorrect shouldn't stop video-games."

No, but something so terrible and close to many people should.


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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 05:40 Edited at: 18th Feb 2008 05:49
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Quote: "No, but something so terrible and close to many people should."


Why is it close to "too many people?" How many people have experience a school shooting? How many people even know someone who has experienced a school shooting? Shouldn't a person be more afraid of what they see happening to people on the news than a school shooting?

Isn't being raped or mugged on the streets 'terrible' and 'close to people'? There is more of constant fear there than in the fear of students nation wide of a school shooting. So then why should your reason be taken as 'the' reason to not make video games likes this.

According to the U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics, School Crime Supplement (SCS) to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), in 2005: 1.2% Brought a knife onto school property, 5.2% knew a student who brought a gun onto school property, 1.8% have seen another student with a gun at school, 8.3% say it's possible to get a gun without adult supervision, at or away from school.

http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/ssocs/tables/scs_2005_tab_17.asp

Now, compare that to this statistic:
Quote: "In 2005, 24% of the incidents of violent crime, a weapon was present.

Offenders had or used a weapon in 48% of all robberies, compared with 22% of all aggravated assaults and 7% of all rapes/sexual assaults in 2005.

Homicides are most often committed with guns, especially handguns. In 2005, 55% of homicides were committed with handguns, 16% with other guns, 14% with knives, 5% with blunt objects, and 11% with other weapons. "


Now for the money:

In 2005 -

* The location of about a quarter of incidents of violent crime was at or near the victim's home. Among common locales for violent crimes were on streets other than those near the victim's home (19%), at school (12%), or at a commercial establishment (8%).

* For violent crime, about half occurred within a mile from home and 76% within five miles. Only 4% of victims of violent crime reported that the crime took place more than fifty miles from their home.

* Of victims of violent crime, 22% were involved in some form of leisure activity away from home at the time of their victimization, 22% said they were at home, and another 20% mentioned they were at work or traveling to or from work when the crime occurred.

vs

School violence

* Between 1992 and 2005, crime in the Nation's schools for students ages 12-18 fell, a pattern consistent with the decline in the national crime rate.

* In every year from 1992 to 2005, students ages 12-18 were more likely to experience a serious violent crime away from school than at school.

* In 2005, about 28% of public and private school students ages 12-18 reported that they have been bullied at school within the past six months.

* Among high school students in grades 9-12, about 14% said they got into a fight on school property in 2005.

* In 2005, 10% of male students and 6% of female student reported experiencing a threat or injury with a weapon on school property.
http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/cvict_c.htm#vtrends

According to those statistics, someone should be more afraid of walking down the street than in school. School shootings being 'close' to people means nothing, seeing as they happen a lot less than everyday violence. YET WE MAKE GAMES ABOUT THAT! Are those things not TERRIBLE? So shouldn't simulating rape, gang violence, murder and assassinations in a video game world be held to a stricter ruling than making a game that sends a positive message about not doing school shootings?

This world is backwards folks.



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tha_rami
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 05:50
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Wtf, Gil, your favorite game is a shooter in the Middle East, and you tell something 'horrible' and 'close' to people shouldn't be a game?


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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 05:53
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God, what have i started........

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tha_rami
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 05:56
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Well, something good: a discussion on the ethical boundaries of games.


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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 05:56 Edited at: 18th Feb 2008 05:57
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Quote: "Wtf, Gil, your favorite game is a shooter in the Middle East, and you tell something 'horrible' and 'close' to people shouldn't be a game?"

a) It's not based on a real conflict, and it's Russia too .
b) It's war, which is completely different than terrorism (domestic or international)
c) You aren't the "bad guy" (like in the Columbine RPG where you played as the shooters, iirc)

I guess I wouldn't have as much as a problem if you were trying to stop the shootings rather than be the shooter, but I still don't think it'd be very fun.

Quote: "Why is it close to "too many people?" How many people have experience a school shooting? How many people even know someone who has experienced a school shooting? Shouldn't a person be more afraid of what they see happening to people on the news than a school shooting? "

I don't mean close as in they have experienced it . I mean it is an event which many people are afraid of and one where emotions run high. For me, that emotion is anger and hate, but for a lot of people it's sadness .


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Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 05:56
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Quote: "YET WE MAKE GAMES ABOUT THAT! Are those things not TERRIBLE?"

No, because as you say yourself it's everyday stuff.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:00
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a) Noone said this game would be based on a real shooting.
b) War is terror. The whole idea behind war is killing to support an ideology or country.
c) Noone stated you'd be the bad guy?

Quote: "I don't mean close as in they have experienced it . I mean it is an event which many people are afraid of and one where emotions run high. For me, that emotion is anger and hate, but for a lot of people it's sadness ."

You mean the same emotions as in war?


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bitJericho
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Gil Galvanti
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:05
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Quote: "a) Noone said this game would be based on a real shooting.
b) War is terror. The whole idea behind war is killing to support an ideology or country.
c) Noone stated you'd be the bad guy?"

a) I assumed he was talking about basing it on real ones.
b) War is not terror in the same way as terrorism. War is two sides fighting, soldiers killing each other to further the ideologies of a country. Terrorism is a someone killing an innocent person because they hate the group they are associated with.
c) I know, which is why I said it wouldn't be that bad if you weren't.

Emotions are higher for innocent people getting killed during everyday life rather than mutual fighting killing soldiers in a war.


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n008
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:07
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What are you guys talking about?

This is a great game idea.

Almost as great as the 9/11 reinactment one where you play as the terroroist and have to maximize the number of Kills.

I mean seriously, who wants to buy a game reomtely related to the things they DON'T want to think about? Come on...

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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:08
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well, This thread has taken a life of it's onw, i guess and what is up with that picture?

"Originally I was going to have a BS on it but you know how that would be. I can't walk around with the letters BS on me." More or less a qoute by Syndrome from Jack, Jack, attack
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tha_rami
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:09
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War is terror. The whole goal is to defeat and demotivate the enemy. Terrorism is what the one warring side calls the others' side war efforts. In war, too, innocents die, and I think more of them die during 'everyday life' in war situations than there are school shooting incidents.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:12
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Quote: "nd I think more of them die during 'everyday life' in war situations than there are school shooting incidents"

Which means what? We should be more sensitive about war because it happens more often?

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n008
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:14
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Quote: "Which means what? We should be more sensitive about war because it happens more often?"


Yes!...

I mean No...

"I have faith, that I shall win the race, even though I have no legs, and am tied to a tree." ~Mark75
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tha_rami
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:15 Edited at: 18th Feb 2008 06:17
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No and yes. Yes, we should be more sensitive about war, but no, not because it happens more often but because we seem to have forgotten the pain and hurt it causes. It's on the news and no-one cares about who dies or lives, statistics that are in our advantage or not. In the end, we've become desensitized to war. What used to be something horrible, now appears daily life.

We should be equally sensitive about all innocent deaths invoked by violence. It's that easy. Every innocent life lost is an innocent life lost. An innocent family shattered. Just because the numbers are larger in war, it doesn't make it normal. By that reasoning, school shooting 'games' should be similarly approached as wargames.


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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:18
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Quote: "No and yes. Yes, we should be more sensitive about war, but no, not because it happens more often but because we seem to have forgotten the pain and hurt it causes. It's on the news and no-one cares about who dies or lives, statistics that are in our advantage or not. In the end, we've become desensitized to war. What used to be something horrible, now appears daily life.

We should be equally sensitive about all innocent deaths invoked by violence. It's that easy. Every innocent life lost is an innocent life lost. An innocent family shattered. Just because the numbers are larger in war, it doesn't make it normal."


Well....he does have a point.

"Originally I was going to have a BS on it but you know how that would be. I can't walk around with the letters BS on me." More or less a qoute by Syndrome from Jack, Jack, attack
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:18
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wowzors, this thread did take off lol.

Its been pretty good so far guys, but make sure to keep the flame on the down low. I think a lot of people are interested in what we may find out in this thread, so lets not get it locked.

Actually, in Gil's defense, Lover of games did kind of say he WAS THINKING about using real shooters in his first post... but it wasn't definite, he was just kind of throwing some ideas around and setting up the thread.

Quote: "No, because as you say yourself it's everyday stuff."


Just because it happens all the time doesn't take away from the emotional impact of the crime...

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n008
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:19 Edited at: 18th Feb 2008 06:23
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So let me see...

We should be sensitive to war because we are sensitive to unusual cirumnstances deaths....

What?

EDIT: Wow, I got LOG to block me on AIM in a few minutes.

A new record!

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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:23
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Quote: "No and yes. Yes, we should be more sensitive about war, but no, not because it happens more often but because we seem to have forgotten the pain and hurt it causes. It's on the news and no-one cares about who dies or lives, statistics that are in our advantage or not. In the end, we've become desensitized to war. What used to be something horrible, now appears daily life.

We should be equally sensitive about all innocent deaths invoked by violence. It's that easy. Every innocent life lost is an innocent life lost. An innocent family shattered. Just because the numbers are larger in war, it doesn't make it normal. By that reasoning, school shooting 'games' should be similarly approached as wargames."


I agree 100%. We've been desensitized and furthur jaded by 'political correctness' to bear emotion of anything significant these days. Try serving in Vietnam or this modern war in Iraq and come back and tell me that because it's an everyday thing we should be numb to it by now. It's kind of a sick response, but one I can't hold you to because of the society we live in today.

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n008
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:24 Edited at: 18th Feb 2008 06:25
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I seriously must have missed something.

People get offended and PC at every little thing, yet you say the public is "desensitized" to death in general?

Personally, I think that desensitivity to death is GOOD.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:29 Edited at: 18th Feb 2008 06:35
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Quote: "Just because it happens all the time doesn't take away from the emotional impact of the crime..."

That's true, I think the case here is that we are very ignorant of the damage to peoples' lives war causes. Something like a school shooting is more sensitive to us because it's more likely to happen to the people around us.

Of course it is important to remember that not all people like the idea of games about war, for the same reason.

Quote: "Personally, I think that desensitivity to death is GOOD."

I don't.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:30 Edited at: 18th Feb 2008 06:33
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You should re-read it. I'm saying an innocent life is an innocent life. This whole thing reminds me of something Aikicat once posted, about the Monkeysphere. Now, I usually don't agree with Aikicat, but he brought up something interesting there.

The point is, we can't put ourselves in a warzone. War is something distant, far away. There's anonymous faces killing anonymous faces and people only care because they think one side is right. The situation is unknown to us and we seem to not even realize the amount of damage and the number of innocent lives taken, not to mention the soldiers, by the way. They're numbers.

Now, a school shooting puts it in a situation we can recognize. In both cases, innocent lives are taken by violence and one can argue about the use or intentions - killing innocents is an incalculated risk when going to war or opening fire. And even if you do make a point about it, what does it matter? An innocent life is lost - does the situation devaluate the person? I think not.

But in the war scenario, it's far away. In the school scenario, it could be next door. In my opinion, stating this is politically incorrect to do in a game is a total disrespect for the innocents dying in war-zones.


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n008
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:30 Edited at: 18th Feb 2008 06:34
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I've been reading this whole thread wrong...

*Goes off to bed now*

EDIT: Ok..

I still think that being overly sensitive to anything that directly affects a person is natural, but death in specifics is because everyone avoids it. No one talks about it, it is ignored.

It needs to be taught as the way things are.

If someone dies close to you, all you have is what happened, and that is it. There is no point in getting overly emotional.

And before everyone jumps down my throat I would like to point out that I have lost two siblings, and a close friend.

I have seen the problem, and it lay in how death is explained and taught to children.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:32
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tha_rami, that was a good post before you erased all of it.

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Posted: 18th Feb 2008 06:32
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Quote: "You should re-read it. I'm saying an innocent life is an innocent life. This whole thing reminds me of something Aikicat once posted, about the Monkeysphere. Now, I usually don't agree with Aikicat, but he brought up something interesting there.

The point is, we can't put ourselves in a warzone. War is something distant, far away. There's anonymous faces killing anonymous faces and people only care because they think one side is right. The situation is unknown to us and we seem to not even realize the amount of damage and the number of innocent lives taken, not to mention the soldiers, by the way. They're numbers.

Now, a school shooting puts it in a situation we can recognize. In both cases, innocent lives are taken by violence and one can argue about the use or intentions - killing innocents is an incalculated risk when going to war or opening fire. And even if you do make a point about it, what does it matter? An innocent life is lost - does the situation devaluate the person? I think not.

But in the war scenario, it's far away. In the school scenario, it could be next door. In my opinion, stating this is politically incorrect to do in a game is a total disrespect for the innocents dying in war-zones."


Man, now i feel so bad i even started this thread

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