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Geek Culture / Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

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Jeku
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Posted: 14th Jun 2008 20:48
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About a month ago I picked up a copy of the collection that had MGS 1, 2, and 3 for PS2. I'll play those first, and then eventually get around to MGS 4. I'm glad it's getting good reviews--- my PS3 has been collecting a lot of dust since I completed Uncharted


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tha_rami
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Posted: 14th Jun 2008 22:49
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Where is that collection? Give me!


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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 14th Jun 2008 23:22
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I'm going to buy them, eventually.

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http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=115938&b=20
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Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 00:24
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Quote: "Would it be okay to get this game if I didn't play the others?"

I've not played MGS4 but the storyline is so conspiracy-filled and turbulent that I assume you need to have played the first 3 to understand what the heck is going on. I guess you'll have fun gameplay-wise but the MGS games have such a big big big story you'd be missing a lot.

Plus, wouldn't it be a shame if you played MGS4 then thought it'd be cool to play the first 3, and you knew everything that'd happened already before you played?

I'm not actually a Kiwi, I just randomly thought it up one day.
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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 01:29
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Quote: "Where is that collection? Give me!"


Linky link


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tha_rami
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 03:31 Edited at: 15th Jun 2008 05:32
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Thanks for the link, Jeku.

The text beneath includes one tiny spoiler that doesn't really spoil anything, but still
Well, for me, the Metal Gear Solid saga has ended. Indeed, some long cutscenes, but honestly, the game is as overwhelming as they come. The ending ties up things as would be expected. There are moments that'll make the real fans cry or rejoice, and even some unexpected characters making a 'come-back'. The boss-fights are overwhelming and the final fight is definitely one to look forward to - unmatched in beauty and style if you ask me. Overall, Guns of the Patriots is a game deserving only a perfect score from a fan of the series like me. This is beyond gaming. This is the final chapter of a character that is unrivalled in gaming. And it is presented exactly as such. This is Art.


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Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 11:22
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If only a PS3 wasn't £300...

I'm not actually a Kiwi, I just randomly thought it up one day.
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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 15:07
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Then it would be wimpy...

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Chenak
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 18:59
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Not really, would just be a ps3 without blueray, which in my opinion would have been better in Europe (maybe america too) since blueray is still so freaking expensive and quite new technology wise. Not many in Europe even have the right equipment to take advantage of blueray anyway so many just say whats the point of blueray because the quality is not any different to that of DVDs due to the crap range of high def stuff we can buy.

I honestly can't see how MGS4 can take up the space of a blueray, having played it and it is awesome, but I can't see how it could use that much space though it does have a tonne of high def adverts that you CANT skip... grrr. I guess the audio could have taken all the space if uncompressed.
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tha_rami
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 22:56 Edited at: 16th Jun 2008 22:59
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Well, the texture quality isn't 100% everywhere, but I must say that I actually can see how beautiful, sharp and crispy everything is.

UBERspoilers:



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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 16th Jun 2008 23:19
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Evochron Renegades is better.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 00:30
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No, it isn't. While Evochron is certainly one of my favorite games, Metal Gear Solid: GotP is of such sheer ambition, size and complexity that it even goes beyond Deus Ex. It feels a bit like Deus Ex, in a way, going all over the world, but honestly, I'm considering just going through all four games in chronological order (3, 1, 2, 4) and picking up/borrowing a PSP to play the Portable Ops games at the right time in the timeframe.


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Deathead
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 00:32
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You know what Bizar Guy is right. Evochron Renegades is great gameplay and great graphics interlinked. Of-which makes it the better game. Oh and Portable Ops is a strategy.


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tha_rami
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 00:45
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The strategy game would be MGS:ACID, not portable ops. Portable Ops actually is pretty much like MGS on PSX/PS2/PS3/PC/GC. In any case, while I do agree Evochron Renegades has great graphics and great gameplay interlinked, I must admit Metal Gear Solid: GotP does that too.


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Deathead
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 02:03
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Quote: "The strategy game would be MGS:ACID, not portable ops."

Ah, whoops got it wrong.


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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 03:56
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Naw rami, I'm sure you're right. Evochron Renegades is awesome, but it's still got a ways to go before I'd rank it with top tier games like this... I think. After all, I've only played one of them.

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Zappo
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 15:21
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Quote: "Not really, would just be a ps3 without blueray, which in my opinion would have been better in Europe (maybe america too) since blueray is still so freaking expensive and quite new technology wise."

Sadly if everyone took this view we would still be loading stuff off punched cards. They were cheap, much cheaper than cassette tapes (until you want things bigger than a few hundred bytes).
Quote: "Not many in Europe even have the right equipment to take advantage of blueray anyway"

I don't think that's true. Figures released in May say there were more than 34 million homes in Western Europe with HDTV's, over 5 million Blu-ray players in European homes, and almost 3.5 million Blu-ray software discs had been sold in Europe (almost 1.4 million Blu-ray discs were sold in the first quarter of 2008 alone).

Blu-Ray and the PS3 compliment each other really well. Apart from the obvious benefits of storage capacity, people bought the PS3 as a cheap way of getting a high definition movie player into their home. For other people (the majority) the Blu-Ray capabilities were secondary but have still benefited the Blu-Ray market considerably by giving them a much bigger customer base. Both sides win and the more sales there are, the more production there is and the cheaper they become - hence the consumer wins too.


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Chenak
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 15:46 Edited at: 17th Jun 2008 15:50
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Quote: "Sadly if everyone took this view we would still be loading stuff off punched cards. They were cheap, much cheaper than cassette tapes (until you want things bigger than a few hundred bytes)."


Those are completely different forms of "media". Now compare cassete tapes to beta max which are more similar, cassete being the cheaper but OK quality and beta max being the more expensive but far superior. What happened then?

Quote: "I don't think that's true. Figures released in May say there were more than 34 million homes in Western Europe with HDTV's, over 5 million Blu-ray players in European homes, and almost 3.5 million Blu-ray software discs had been sold in Europe (almost 1.4 million Blu-ray discs were sold in the first quarter of 2008 alone)."


Except that these are the cheap HDTVs that are not "completely" HD. See the difference between 720p or 1080i which are the majority available in the uk in the £300 to £800 region compared to 1080p which is in the £1200+ region. You need a 40"+ TV to even see the difference between upscaled dvd and 1080i.

Now, 1080p is a thing of beauty when you have the real stuff to play it on, which we don't. I've seen the difference in quality between the UK "fake" hdtvs and the ones in Hong Kong. The difference is completely insane, so much so its convinced me never to buy a hdtv in europe cause I can find a better one in a dustbin in Hong Kong.

Where did you get these figures from anyway? The blue-ray players are most definately nearly all PS3s since the players here are garbage and are rarely bought because they are the same price or more than a PS3.

Quote: "Blu-Ray and the PS3 compliment each other really well. Apart from the obvious benefits of storage capacity, people bought the PS3 as a cheap way of getting a high definition movie player into their home"


Whats the point of having a large capacity disk if you need to install some of it on the PS3 anyway
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Zappo
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 16:24
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Quote: "Those are completely different forms of "media"."

So are DVD and Blu-Ray. Just because they are both classed as 'optical storage' doesn't mean they are the same. The differences are pretty important. OMR sheets ('Optical Mark Recognition') could be classed as optical storage but I am sure you would admit they are very different to DVD's.
Quote: "You need a 40"+ TV to even see the difference between upscaled dvd and 1080i."

I would disagree. I don't think you have been watching the right movies or possibly had incorrect settings because there is a big difference. Upscaling DVDs mean the player has to interpolate the pixels inbetween so it will never contain the same details as a proper HD picture. Perhaps you have been viewing movies which were not originally recorded in HD?
There is also the extra content which can be stored on the disc and the much more flexible interactivity such as additional online content (BD-Live). The whole menu system and BDJ (Java) allows it to do much more than just provide movie playback.
Besides, to watch upscaled DVD's you still need a HD TV whether that's 1080i or 1080p (both are still classed as HD).

Everyone would love a 1080p TV (I know I would) but they are too expensive. Until prices come down, a 720p/1080i TV still beats the pants off a standard TV (and that's without buying it dinner first ).
Quote: "Where did you get these figures from anyway?"

They were released at the European PlayStation Day event on the 7th May 2008 by Simon McDowell (SVP Europe, Sony Pictures).
Quote: "The blue-ray players are most definitely nearly all PS3s since the players here are garbage and are rarely bought because they are the same price or more than a PS3."

The players here are 'garbage'?! I would like to know how you can generalize like that. I would agree that the PS3 is the best value player for the money due to its ease of firmware upgrading but there are some excellent top quality BD players out there and they seem to be selling pretty well with those that want (and can afford) the best HD experience.
Just out of interest, Futuresource have announced that in Western Europe, Blu-ray player sales during the first three years of the format have outpaced DVD player sales during its first three years. That's pretty significant.
Quote: "Whats the point of having a large capacity disk if you need to install some of it on the PS3 anyway"

And where would it install all this data from? Thin air? It has to be stored somewhere in the first place.


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Chenak
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 17:12 Edited at: 17th Jun 2008 17:41
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Quote: "Perhaps you have been viewing movies which were not originally recorded in HD?"


Spiderman 3 blue ray and DVD, got the BD free for buying my sony laptop. Comparing the two, I see no difference on anything other than a 42" sony HDTV. In Hong Kong I saw someone playing MGS4 on a 42", man it was beautiful. On our 42" in the shop it doesn't look as good, but its MGS4 so its still beautiful...

Quote: "The players here are 'garbage'?! I would like to know how you can generalize like that."


http://consumerist.com/344116/buyers-beware-current-blu+ray-dvd-players-wont-correctly-play-future-discs

[href=http://www.betanews.com/article/Bluray_Early_adopters_knew_what_they_were_getting_into/1199841379
]http://www.betanews.com/article/Bluray_Early_adopters_knew_what_they_were_getting_into/1199841379
[/href]

There are more articles that describe this and there was a post on these forums about this earlier. Yes, they are garbage, I would consider anything that wont play future "special features" releases of its OWN FORMAT garbage, they will not beable to play the features from the newest blueray profile 2.0 releases whereas the PS3 can, and the PS3 is cheaper. If there are any profile 2.0 players in europe (and i havent seen ANY in Cambridge, not even in John Lewis!) then they will be worth buy maybe.

Again, blueray player sales are most likely refering to the PS3, I can only find 2 stores in cambridge that even sell the bloody blueray players, and they are still over £300.

Quote: "And where would it install all this data from? Thin air? It has to be stored somewhere in the first place."


HUH? I thought the whole point of a large disk for a console was to store more data. This means you don't have to compress the data... which should mean you dont need it to be installed to shorten loading times (or just have long loading times). I was kinda joking too.. its anoying but I dont mind it too much.
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Zappo
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 17:39
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Quote: "There are more articles that describe this and there was a post on these forums about this earlier. Yes, they are garbage, I would consider anything that wont play future releases of its OWN FORMAT garbage"

Mmmm. I think those articles apply to the low end (budget) first release Blu-Ray players. Its NOT that they won't play future releases either, its that the low end players won't be able to take advantage of some of the extra features like BD-Live or some of the bonus material. They will all be able to play the movies.

Put simply, it breaks down like this (in order of price and features:

1) BD-Video - Profile 1.0 - 64KB persistent memory, no additional storage (memory), optional picture-in-picture, no internet connectivity.
2) Bonus View - Profile 1.1 - 64KB persistent memory, minimum 256MB storage, picture-in-picture, no internet connectivity.
3) BD-Live - Profile 2.0 - 64KB persistent memory, minimum 1GB storage, picture-in-picture, Internet connectivity.

So you get a choice. They all play the movies but some disks have additional content designed for the better spec players. You can pay less and get less, or pay more and get more. I would recommend one which has the ability to update its firmware (just like most decent DVD-PVRs can) but the choice is up to the consumer and their budget. The PS3 is the clear all-round choice by offering BD-Live with updatable firmware and a lot more features at a decent price but it may not be the choice of AV professionals.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
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Chenak
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 17:44 Edited at: 17th Jun 2008 17:48
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Yer sorry I actually meant special features, been typing too fast, but I like features, and I find it annoying that the more expensive blueray player only drives don't have them. I was editing spelling mistakes and the features bit but you beat me to it

I also read somewhere that profile 2.0 was going to be used as some sort of online copy protection meaning you would need it to some play movies, but cant find it anywhere. Not sure if it was the rantings of a mad man though
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Zappo
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 18:43
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Quote: "Not sure if it was the rantings of a mad man though"

I hope so. There are plenty of us about on the old internet.

It is a shame that the release of profile 2.0 players seems to be slow but then there aren't actually any BD-Live movies released yet in Europe. At the moment there is only the PS3 and the Panasonic DMP-BD50 that I know of that are properly compliant in the Region B area (which includes the UK). The Samsung BD-P2500 should be out in September. The first European BD-Live movie will be released on 26th June with extra online content. Its 'Men In Black'.
The good news is that all players made after 1st November 2007 have to be at least Profile 1.1 (Bonus View) compliant.


Chart data provided with kind permission from ELSPA
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tha_rami
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 23:36 Edited at: 17th Jun 2008 23:38
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Quote: "They will all be able to play the movies."

Yeah, and the PS3 was going to be backward compatible.

If anything, I hate Sony for killing backward compatibility in the EU-PS3's. Come on, how am I supposed to play the whole Metal Gear Solid saga on a shiny PS3 now? Impossible, they say! Impossible my ***, the 60GB version was as expensive as the 40GB plus a single game here. Well, that stopped me from buying one, I 'borrow' it.


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Michael S
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Posted: 17th Jun 2008 23:44
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I have yet to play MGS but it looks like they are pretty good. Ill have to look into them.

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Deathead
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 00:11
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Quote: "If anything, I hate Sony for killing backward compatibility in the EU-PS3's. Come on, how am I supposed to play the whole Metal Gear Solid saga on a shiny PS3 now? Impossible, they say! Impossible my ***, the 60GB version was as expensive as the 40GB plus a single game here. Well, that stopped me from buying one, I 'borrow' it."

Most likely Sony will release a MGS Anniversary pack or something like that, but they will most likely rip you off in prices.


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tha_rami
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 03:26 Edited at: 18th Jun 2008 03:26
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I don't care about the prices, I mean, heck, I'm willing to buy a PS3 to play MGS4 again, at home, without a friend complaining the game takes too long and trying to skip the cut-scenes. Just, not if I cannot play the other games in the series. Honestly, I prefer the 360 in terms of games, but MGS is just an essential to me.


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Jeku
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 05:38
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@tha_rami -- So it's best to play 3, 1, 2, 4 in that order? I was just about going to pop in MGS 1 to play the series for the first time.


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Xenocythe
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 06:37
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Actually, I think if they're making the games in that order, you might as well play it that way. It's probably more enjoyable.

At least, I played 1,2,3, and it was great.

3.11 We do not tolerate posts made for the purpose of putting down another forum member, group of members, religion, our company, our staff or any of our moderators, past or present.
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Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 13:00
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Jeku - MGS 3 is kind of a prequel in that it's set in the 1960s. MGS1 and 2 are set about now, possibly a bit in the future. (So presumably MGS4 is set in around 2020?)

Of course, if you want to play ALL of them, you'd have to play the old NES and SNES "Metal Gear" and "Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake". I think you can get emulators and stuff for that.

Also - I haven't played Portable Ops or MG Acid. Are those storylines mentioned in MGS4 or does it only focus on the mainstream MGS games?

I'm not actually a Kiwi, I just randomly thought it up one day.
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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 15:32
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PSSSH - I believe they were meant to be played in the order they came out. 1-2-3-4 all the way!

Favorite Quote: Dramatized code? Code Drama!

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Krilik
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 15:37 Edited at: 18th Jun 2008 15:39
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No, play them in the order they were released. It was done that way on purpose.

Timeline
MGS3 - 1964
MGS: Portable Ops (PSP) - 1970
Metal Gear (MSX) - 1995
Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake (MSX) - 1999
MGS1 - 2005
MGS2 - 2007, 2009
MGS4 - 2014

You do not need to play Metal Gear, and Metal Gear 2, they are garbage and their stories are either completely pointless now, or have be completely changed. If you do want to play them however, I suggest picking up a copy of MGS3: Subsistence (the version that comes in the essentials lacks the 2nd disc with bonus features), it has both Metal Gear, and Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake (translated finally).

Edit: The AC!D series has nothing to do with the Metal Gear Solid series. They're decent card based strategy games though.
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tha_rami
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Posted: 18th Jun 2008 23:27 Edited at: 18th Jun 2008 23:29
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Metal Gear Solid 3 plays before the other games.

Timeline-wise, MGS3, MGS1, MGS2 thén MGS4 would be the best order to play storywise.

MGS1, MGS2, MGS3 then MGS4 allows you to see the evolution in the games best. MGS1 does do a step back gameplay-wise, excluding the first person view and aim mode.

In other words, you might better just start with MGS1 unless you know the series.


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Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 19th Jun 2008 23:25
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Quote: "MGS1 does do a step back gameplay-wise, excluding the first person view and aim mode."

Agreed - but the "Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes" remake for gamecube basically takes MGS2 controls and applies them to an improved (graphically) MGS1. So if you can't survive without first-person shooting you could play that. Unfortunately, this version has some drawbacks: the voice acting is good but quite simply inferior to the original, and there are certain gameplay tweaks that change some battles (eg. the Ocelot battle plays completely differently, and you can wear down Vulcan Raven simply using the pistol and jump-out shot for the entire battle).

I'm not actually a Kiwi, I just randomly thought it up one day.
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tha_rami
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 03:18 Edited at: 20th Jun 2008 04:01
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MGS:TTS was a total disappointment. Snake suddenly became some sort of overpowered super action hero that could do two backflips in a single jump, deflect a blow from a cyborg ninja who can carry a war machine and the Otacon ending pretty much showed what kind of style they were going for. Voice acting sucked, gameplay sucked and honestly, I'd rather play the original MGS with Raiden than play MGS:TTS. Bah.

BTW @ Jeku: Portable Ops for the PSP is also important in the story, although the only really important information you get is at the end of the game... I'll spoil it below if you don't want to play the game, although I recommend you do not read it before finishing MGS3, but have read it before starting MGS4.

The below fully spoils MGS: Portable Ops



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Jeku
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Posted: 20th Jun 2008 18:33
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I don't have a PSP and don't plan on getting one, but thanks for the heads up. Maybe I'll find a playthrough on YouTube


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Krilik
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2008 09:08
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This guy has all the cutscenes from MPO on his YouTube account. Its what I first used to see the storyline before I decided to buy a PSP.
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Thraxas
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2008 12:16
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Can someone explain the difference between portable ops and portable ops plus... Does plus include everything from the original or have things been cut?

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Krilik
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2008 12:49
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Plus is just an expansion with new multiplayer stuff, and a single player mission mode. It does not contain the single player from Portable Ops.
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