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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] The Meaning of Life is...

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tha_rami
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 03:42 Edited at: 15th Jun 2008 03:43
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I think this thread should be locked anyway. For example, it is unfair to the religious people that expressing their thoughts is prohibited while the atheists are free to express ideas of individualism and self-actualisation. Also, there will always be idiots derailing threads like these.

In any case, I'm undecided. One way, I cannot believe everything is for naught, yet the other way I'm having a hard time believing in a God of rights and wrongs. One way, I believe in the Big Bang and evolution, but the other way, I also believe in something orchestrating it all. I do not believe in a God with children, or a gender, or anything human-like. God, after all, would be 'in the spaces between spaces', to quote a recent disappointment in cinematic history.

If I believe in a God, it's a God of intentions, not a God that rules by a book. If I believe in a God, it's a God of strictness, but not of hate. Probably, I've taken most of my views from a muslim (and quranic) point of view, but mixed them slightly with scientific theories.

I will never believe in humanity. Humanity is unfit to rule or take care of itself. We've seen that for millennia and we will continue to remain unfit to look after ourselves.

But whatever. This should be locked.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 03:45 Edited at: 15th Jun 2008 03:49
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Come on now, lets not make this anti-religious - I think with religion or science or both, not many of the ideas are stupid (some are), unless you say something stupid.

I say, we can believe what we want as we all have the right to follow what we believe and we all have the possibility and entitlement of being completely and utterly wrong; after all we're human and it does mean our laws of perception are perfect, no matter how many observations you make.

Quote: "Like Sepp said earlier if we are all the spawn of amoebas from a pond of ooze life is pointless. In that note we should do whatever we want when we want. Utter chaos could ensue."


Well, not quite - I don't think I said life was meaningless or pointless, but if you percieve the world existing without any kind of divinity, then the existence of life has no meaning, but your individual lives, the lives around you and society all have meaning because we've given them meaning, because if we didn't then our lives would not be worth living.

If you believe in a divine entity (which I think has been fairly obvious that I don't ), then the answer about the meaning of life can be more black and white - philosophers like Thomas Aquinas said (as an example) that to be 'good' human beings we need to follow God's divine plan which can be seen through the bible, teachings of christ and natural law. The reason for this is based off of Aristotle's observation that when something is made, it's designed for a purpose and it's only 'good' when it fulfills that purpose. (a 'good' axe is sharp with a strong handle so that it can cut wood efficiently and not break easily.) So the meaning of life in that sense would be to do what God intended us for. (Of course then we don't know our purpose is anyway, but know how to fulfull it...in terms of Aquinas' philosophy and religion)



I know I stepped into the realms of religion, but I've not used any contradictions on religious or scientific belief and haven't tried to start a discussion on it, but have tried to clarify where the 'meaning of life' can go and trying to steer away from people giving a religion bash. (which they shouldn't)

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 04:06 Edited at: 15th Jun 2008 04:06
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tha_rami,

You're views reminded me of Einstein's. He believed there can be two types of God: the personal God that religions tend to follow and worship, and a God of harmony, where everything just seems to flow. Someone once said that the universe seemed more like a giant thought than a machine. To quote Einstein, by understanding the universe we can "read the mind of God". Again, very much like Carl Sagan's stance.


Seppuku,

I happened to notice your sig. Kant had an amazing way to think about things. He was deeply religious, but his inpenetrable categorical imperative formula really seems to work with our morals. We don't need a God to tell us what's right and what's wrong, "it stands to reason".

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 04:33 Edited at: 15th Jun 2008 04:33
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Quote: "Seppuku,

I happened to notice your sig. Kant had an amazing way to think about things. He was deeply religious, but his inpenetrable categorical imperative formula really seems to work with our morals. We don't need a God to tell us what's right and what's wrong, "it stands to reason".
"


Good old Kant (just be careful not to say that in an East London accent), one heck of a guy, but a pain in the butt to read. Some of my approaches derive from reading Kant, I mean when you read up on what he says about a priori and a posteriori cognitions. The quote I used in my quote I particularly like because he's basically saying how we experience things/what we experience can't universalised properly, yet our judgments come from comparisons or assumptions.

And it's interesting to see a deeply religious man stand so hard on reason, especially when I keep hearing the same old argument that 'religion is irrational'. Another person I like on the whole thing is Wittgenstein and his Logical Positivism - especially the opening parts to his book, I'd quote that, but I don't have it handy - but it seems to distinguish the difference between logic and truth.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Zotoaster
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 04:51
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Quote: "we experience things/what we experience can't universalised properly"


Almost exactly as what David Hume said. Hume however thought of induction as a problem for science, but we live in a 'symmetric' universe (where the same laws of physics apply everywhere), so it's not really such a problem.


Quote: "And it's interesting to see a deeply religious man stand so hard on reason"


You should check out Ken Miller (possibly the first person mentioned in this thread still alive ). He's a catholic I believe, but he is known for standing up for evolution. He practically destroyed the whole theory of Irreducible Complexity.

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
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draknir_
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 05:21
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I believe in the flying spaghetti monster in the sky.

Tentacles be upon thee brother!
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Plystire
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 05:48 Edited at: 15th Jun 2008 05:54
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The meaning of life, as defined by Plystire:

To come to an absolute with one's self and to create therein a purpose within the universe.


Basically, you come up with whatever you feel is most important to you and to fulfill it. So, if I think that the best reason for me being here is to make video games, then THAT is the meaning of my own existence.

People have done this throughout the ages, it's called a "life goal". What do you want to do with your life? Answer the question, then go do it!

Dreams are the meaning of life. You think of your most desired outcome and you strive for it.


That, ladies and gentlemen, is the meaning of life.

As said by the gentleman who first theorized that everything was made up of tiny building blocks... so tiny that they were invisible to the naked eye:

PROVE ME WRONG!


The one and only,


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Libervurto
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 06:00
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Seeing as we've touched on religion; did anyone watch The Passion of The Christ and think "it wasn't as good as the book".
first time ive made myself laugh in a while lol.

but seriously about religion in respect to this thread:
there is no point in getting the thread locked by debating about religious lore (we know most of these explanations of creation and gods will already anyway)
what i would like to hear from the religious forum members is what conclusions you've drawn from these ideas, do you have an interesting angle on them?
New ideas please nothing that is in religious scriptures as that will get us locked, probably.

I do understand why religion and politics are banned, because 6000 years of war distilled into one thread makes a bit of a mess :p

please note I am asking for personal interpretation here, not mass opinion

It is far better to complete a 10 line program than to start a 10,000 line program.
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Plystire
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 06:22
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Personally, I believe in a supreme being, and I believe they designed evolution.

I mean, in all means of realism, that makes the most sense. It would get the most amount of work done in the least amount of time.


The one and only,


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Zotoaster
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 06:36
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Quote: "the least amount of time. "


If by that you mean 4 billion years, about a 3rd of the age of the entire universe, then yeah!


When you properly study evolution, you find it doesn't need design (the process itself that is). It's basically two processes: genetic mutations, when the DNA doesn't copy itself perfectly, and natural selection, where life-forms with bad mutations get eaten or die somehow else. Thus, you get adaption -> speciation. None of this had to be designed.

I think it takes a lot of explanation to explain how you believe that someone designed evolution when you have no empirical evidence. If you have faith about it then that's a different matter altogether

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
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Libervurto
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 06:53 Edited at: 15th Jun 2008 07:00
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@Plystire
That is certainly the most economical explanation, but the universe has had all the time in existance, it hasn't needed to be economical.
I find it fascinating how something unknown can be described as both instant and infinite with the same logic. Like 0 and infinity are equal.

Answer this: when you wake up, are you aware how long you've been asleep?
it could have been a day or five seconds; you are blissfully unaware until you read the clock.
That analogy doesn't give any answers lol
my "reading the clock" meant science but its open to interpretation.


[edit]
I just thought of something, what if an instant to god is billions of years to us and evolution is creation but in slow motion to us?
Maybe the 7 days aren't even over yet!
Now that is a cool idea for a game! Lol

It is far better to complete a 10 line program than to start a 10,000 line program.
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 06:58
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Quote: "@Dink:So you believe this is god?"


No, where did you ever get that idea. Gosh, the slightest mention of my personal belief in a God throws this thread into a frenzy. It's ridiculous you guys think it's like some sort of taboo. Just settle down. I don't attack everyone else's theories so leave mine be please.

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 07:01 Edited at: 15th Jun 2008 07:01
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Dink, don't get yourself worked up. I thought it was wrong for Deathead to post that because it would cause the thread to decay - I hoped people would have had enough sense to ignore it.


OBese,

What's supposed to be both instant and infinite?

Don't you just hate that Zotoaster guy?
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Libervurto
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 07:06 Edited at: 15th Jun 2008 07:13
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Yeah no theory bashing please

i find it funny how no one objects to my strange energy religion i just made up

@Zo
maybe it's just my weird logic but if you're unaware of how long it was before you were born say, the time before your birth seems infinite but it also has no length in your mind

It is far better to complete a 10 line program than to start a 10,000 line program.
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 07:07
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Sorry Zoto, but this happens every time anyone makes a mention of anything spiritual, yet it's ok to just go on and talk about atheism and agnosticism and whatever else. It's very one sided and frustrating. But I won't return to this thread. I just had to rant, sorry.

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn

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Libervurto
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 07:17
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@Zo
edited my post with my answer

It is far better to complete a 10 line program than to start a 10,000 line program.
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 08:21
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Quote: "if we are all the spawn of amoebas from a pond of ooze life is pointless. "

Maybe the meaning of life is to evolve into something better. Lots of practical uses for believing that, too .

Quote: "it is unfair to the religious people that expressing their thoughts is prohibited while the atheists are free to express ideas of individualism and self-actualisation"

If you ban individualism and/ or self-actualisation, these boards would become extremely Orwellian. Personally, I wouldn't affiliate myself with a religion that strips away my personal identity. Besides, comments like that aren't really "aethiest," they can simply be existential can't they? People were having existential thoughts well before any religion was ever founded. "What is the meaning of life" is in itself an existential question, the grand daddy of them all lol. If it weren't for thoughts like that, there wouldn't be any religions to discuss . In fact, you could very easily tie stuff like that to just about every facet of life, from ironing your shirt to programming a new game. In a way, existentialism is almost more scientific than it is religious... at least, that's how I see it lol.

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 08:52 Edited at: 15th Jun 2008 09:00
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@Matt: Haha, well, I'm not sure I get it (yeah, I'm dumb), but you meant well.

@All: I'm with Dink in that I believe that God put us here for a purpose, which is to worship and obey Him. Obeying Him includes telling other people about Him. I never strive to find the meaning of life because I already know what it is. I do try to find out what MY part will be in this plan, but I try to leave that in His hands.

Try not to bash me.

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Jeku
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Posted: 15th Jun 2008 09:00
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So let me get this straight. Just about every one of you says something like: don't talk about religion or this will get locked. Then in the same post you write about who your God is, and/or make fun of somebody else's point of view. Sorry, but this thread has already gone down.


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