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Geek Culture / Cant take airsoft guns to australia, -CUSTOMS-

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GamerDude
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Posted: 29th Jun 2008 23:26
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Now I need a license class a to get the airsoft pallet guns into australia. why make them require a license. Which really sucks. I am currently in europe on a holiday.
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 29th Jun 2008 23:47
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Because it's a GUN.

Seriously, you can't even take a tiny bottle of medicine on board an aircraft now in case you make a "bomb". Well, what if I took my laptop battery, pressed it against the window frame and twisted the contacts together? Bomb enough?


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Grandma
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 00:13 Edited at: 30th Jun 2008 00:13
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I recently read this article http://www.bt.dk/article/20080612/utroligt/80612031/. Don't bother, unless you understand danish. It basically says that a guy was stopped at the airport for having a t-shirt with a picture of a transformer on it. Because the transformer had "weapons as arms". OH NO!

Were they afraid he'll transform the t-shirt into a gun, and kill people with it? I think somebody needs a reality check.

This is one of the things that seriously ****** me off.

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puppyofkosh
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 00:17
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You know, an old lady who was like 90 was stopped at an airport because, when they searched her she said "Do you really think I have a bomb?"

or something like that. But in a way I understand, that they should explore all possibilities...

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Grandma
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 00:27
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I have been stopped myself and searched for bombs, two times.

They even dared throwing out my luggage in the middle of the waiting line with many people behind me. I felt like doing something stupid then. I didn't, but you could see the fire in my eyes. metaphorically, _I_ was the bomb.

The second time, I was just shuffled along into more private quarters.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 00:51
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I personally don't think either X-ray machines or metal detectors are really adequate any more. I believe it is now possible to buy porcelain guns that do not show up on metal detectors? Also, how do you tell the difference between a camcorder battery and a small bomb, especially with other things layered on top? You can't.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 01:26
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To be fair Grandma you DO look like terrorist.

It's daft, but it's the way things are. I can see why gun replicas don't dig with security - if they see you carrying it, chances are they'd shoot you, I don't know if you've seen them around but some of the airport security packs some nice gear themselves. Airport people are just paranoid because of terror threats and by being stupid they think they have a better chance of stopping potential threats.

Also, when I went to see Henry Rollins do standup, I remember him talking about how the Australian home secretary contacted him because on the plane he was caught reading a book called 'Jihad' and they talked about the seriousness of terrorism. You can imagine his reaction.

Quote: "I believe it is now possible to buy porcelain guns that do not show up on metal detectors? Also, how do you tell the difference between a camcorder battery and a small bomb, especially with other things layered on top? You can't."


This is why airport security is very difficult and of course a reason not to jump on somebody because they look like a typical terrorist (like Grandma), Chaser's way did the old joke thing of dressing up in Arabic clothing and acting suspicious compared to somebody dressed as a tourist. I'm sure if you're a smart terrorist, you're not going to make yourself obvious.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Grandma
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 02:06 Edited at: 30th Jun 2008 02:08
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Quote: "This is why airport security is very difficult and of course a reason not to jump on somebody because they look like a typical terrorist (like Grandma)"


What? You mean, unshaven, tired(percieved as bad mood or "distant"), "suspicious" way of looking around and pin-pointing cameras and personell, a military backpack and out-of-the-ordinary 80's clothing whilst avoiding eye-contact like all eyes are actually small suns?

I guess all that added up could make me a target for search... But I don't approve of that kind of discrimination.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 02:14
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Grandma... seriously.

I agree with what happened to Gamerdude btw. No guns aboard commercial planes, period. Actually, I think no non-enforcement person should be allowed to have guns .


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Violent Pigeon
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 02:21 Edited at: 30th Jun 2008 02:22
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Then again, you will sure enough get bent policemen then selling guns, Shotguns and rifles are ok for hunting but no offense but the silly americans with the whole frigging armoury in there shed filled iwht pistols, semi automatic weapons and if you get the license automatic weapons also.

But some people just get them, a guy in england took a spas-12 round some guys house because he through his business on the street, so he went round his house with a Spas-12 and started shooting up the door of the guy, really i cant say i wouldnt do the same thing if someone had just been threatening my family, destroyed my business, and stolen from me all in the same day but still, you drive someone to it, you really have it coming.

P.S With terrorism, better to be safe than sorry, infact i would have been a hell of alot happyier if these regulations were implemented before 9/11 many lifes would have been saved and many familys could have been spared from being traumatized.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 02:33
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Quote: "Then again, you will sure enough get bent policemen then selling guns, Shotguns and rifles are ok for hunting but no offense but the silly americans with the whole frigging armoury in there shed filled iwht pistols, semi automatic weapons and if you get the license automatic weapons also."


The second amendment wasn't written to protect our rights to hunt:/

It was created to protect citizens where or when the military cannot.


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Sunflash
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 02:36 Edited at: 30th Jun 2008 02:39
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Haha, I had a chuckle when I saw this thread, I JUST got in the door from a large Airsoft skirmish here. Sadly it reached 100 degrees for the first time in Washington states cloudy and rainy history, so I (and nearly everyone else) left three good hours early. *sniff*

Yeah, Airport security can be a pain. I got "randomly flagged" for a special search when going to Miami Florida for the Fencing Nationals. Luckily they let me take Foils and Epees on board the plane

As for taking weapon replicas on board planes. haha, NO. Gun replicas (namely Airsoft weapons) need to be treated with the uptmost respect, as if they were the real deal, but I'm sure your totally aware of that, I just know a lot of idiots who should never come CLOSE to contact with any weapon.

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soapyfish
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 04:14 Edited at: 30th Jun 2008 04:30
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It is not possible to buy working porcelain guns, this was a rumour that started with the second die hard film when Bruce Willis says
Quote: "That punk pulled a Glock 7 on me! You know what that is? It's a porcelain gun made in Germany. It dosen't show up on your airport X-ray machines, and it cost more than you make here in a month."


It's the majority having to put up with the inconvenience because of how a minority of people act.

Anything that resembles a real gun will appear just as threatening as a real gun if somebody starts waving it around, people have been shot by the police because they mistook a table leg for a gun so I can understand why Australia has strict laws. If it doesn't look like a toy then it shouldn't be treated like one.

Like I said, I realise it's the majority having to put up with the inconvenience because of how a minority of people act. Just one of those things.

Quote: "Actually, I think no non-enforcement person should be allowed to have guns"

It's a fair idea but in reality people would just resort to stabbing each other.


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tha_rami
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 04:41
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Quote: "It's a fair idea but in reality people would just resort to stabbing each other."

Which is:
a) less lethal
b) harder to do
c) easier to run away from
d) easier to defend from


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Jeku
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 05:18 Edited at: 30th Jun 2008 05:19
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Quote: "Actually, I think no non-enforcement person should be allowed to have guns"


And how do you surmise we go about removing weapons from non-enforcement? Ask them nicely? There's no magic button to make all the guns disintegrate, so banning them will do about as much good as banning murder

And half my uncles and grandfather hunt for a living, so what about them?

Myself, I kinda like that technology that uses fingerprint matching to activate the firearm. It would just be removed on the black market anyways, but it's still a cool idea

Quote: "easier to run away from"


Actually hitting a moving target with a pistol is very difficult-- I've tried!


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 05:57
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Banning guns won't do any good for the following reasons:

1. No easy way to take them away as Jeku said
2. The law abiding good people will obey the law leaving them unprotected while the bad criminal people will break the law because laws don't matter to them.
3. Totally outlandish, but maybe not so much... I'd like to be able to protect myself from my own government if necessary. People like Grandma will understand those views haha.

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AndrewT
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 07:00 Edited at: 30th Jun 2008 07:03
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When it comes to the allowance of guns I see two possible scenarios:

1. An armed man breaks into my house, shoots me then steals everything.

2. An armed man breaks into my house and gets shot in the chest.

Personally, I find the second situation more appealing. Namely because I don't die.

However, to get back on the original topic I totally believe that the airport security should be allowed to search absolutely anything and anybody that looks suspicious. Even if it's an 80-year old woman that questions why she's being searched.

90% of statistics are completely inaccurate.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 11:49
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Luckily for us, we can manage without guns, but surprise, surprise, but there are guns on our streets, at the same time we have a lot less gun crime. People still hunt in the UK and people can't readily arm themselves, it works for us, but it won't work for America. You can see USA's gun problems aren't simple to solve and I'm sure it'd be nice to live without them, unfortunately that's idealism and this is reality.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Zombie 20
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 12:22
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Grandma- they always go after the folk who look the 'part' but we all know its the quiet white guy with a buisness shirt and tie that transforms into a thermo-nuclear device. Yea..I went there. But in all seriousness, it is more than a tad daft of security to pick on you because you 'look' terroristic, looking and being are different in my opinion anyways.

Just trying to bring some cheer.


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Grandma
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 12:52
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Quote: "It is not possible to buy working porcelain guns, this was a rumour that started with the second die hard film"


Wait, so someone heard something in a movie and took it seriously?

Hey Zombie, haven't seen you in a while.

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GamerDude
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 12:54
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Go here and see what type of `GUN` I am talking about.
http://item.express.ebay.com/Sporting-Goods___380-FPS-CUSTOM-FULL-METAL-Airsoft-M4-CASV-AEG-Gun-Rifle_W0QQitemZ130161747698QQihZ003QQddnZSportingQ20GoodsQQddiZ577QQcmdZExpressItem

Not a real gun! A Toy, for youths and such. You can be 10 years old and own one. I am in a small town near Maribor and I am waiting for the airsoft shop to open again. There is a club that I am going to join for a few weeks. That makes situations close to reality like hostages and terrorist things and they send in a swat team to eliminate enemies and such. This team is called the swat club. Free to join.
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 12:55 Edited at: 30th Jun 2008 12:56
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Well, when you hear a company name, Glock, and a model number, 7, you presume it's true I suppose. It did always seem a bit odd to me; surely the bullets would break it?

You're telling me 15 rounds a second is a kid's toy? Get real.


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 13:45
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Quote: "Disclaimer: By purchasing this item, the buyer warrants that he/she is 18 years of age or older and is legally able to purchase the item shown. It is the responsibility of the BUYER, not airsoft_expert, to ascertain and obey all applicable local, state and federal laws. "


I wouldn't call airsoft a kids' toy. Certainly they are nowhere near as dangerous as a real weapon, bu they are by no means safe. I wouldn't allow you to take them past airport security either. In fact I'd be very suspicious if I saw the shape of an MP5 show up on the x-ray scanner, real gun or not. Lol.

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MSon
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 15:01
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Quote: "I personally don't think either X-ray machines or metal detectors are really adequate any more"


when i use to work for a delivery company, we had to use an X-ray Machine to check all parcels that where going on a plain, we check them , stickered them as checked, then just passed them on so they could skip all checks at the airport and be placed straight on the plain, (Carbo Plain, not a Passanger one), but we had to stop things like swords, a box of 200 BB Guns, other things like that.

As for the quote i added above, i dont know about any modern updated systems, but we use to have problems when people where sending large quantities of books as the xRay had problems seeing through it all.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 15:04
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Not to mention all you'd have to do is convince the people you're aiming at that it's real - chances are if they see you with one of these it won't be too difficult to mistake it for a real one and that's your butt against the wall and a waste of the security's time, probably why they won't let you have one.

If you have it equipped and they mistake it for real, chances are airport security won't think twice to shoot you. People have been shot for carrying replicas before without the realisation they weren't real. Best keep them banned in airports to avoid the waste of time or the risk.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Grandma
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 15:04
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Quote: "i dont know about any modern updated systems"


http://epic.org/privacy/airtravel/backscatter/

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MSon
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 15:32 Edited at: 30th Jun 2008 15:44
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Quote: "The $100,000 refrigerator-size machines"

Thats about £50000 Ours cost about 5 times that and was about the size of a Ford Transit, but that was a few months after Sept 11 so they proberley increased the price due to demand at the time...

Quote: "Best keep them banned in airports to avoid the waste of time or the risk"

We once had to return a pallet of toy gun which was bound for america, (the cheap plastic cowboy and indian style onces), because fedex refused the accept them claiming they where still classed them as "Lethal Weapons"

All this means is all the stuff you dont want sent on plains, gets sent by boats instead where theres less security.

As for banning thinks so you cant make explosives, its prity pointless, (other than obvious things like cannisters of gas, ect) as you can make explosives out of anythink, take an empty bottle and somethink to use as a detinattor intot he bathroom on a plain and you can find all the stuff you would need provided there free.

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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 30th Jun 2008 17:22
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Hell, you can use a Game Boy Colour as a detonator, I'll bet the link port gives out enough for a tiny spark.


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GamerDude
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Posted: 1st Jul 2008 21:52
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what`s wierd is that you can take a old dell laptop battery, 100ml flamable spray bottle (uncompressed) and wire on to planes and short the laptop battery, put the spray on top and run, 5min later the battery is on fire and about to explode! Also, I may be going to london. Does anyone here go to the maribor swat club, if so I wanna shoot you! Also, for $30 you can get a toy airsoft gun, the one obove is not a toy, $200.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 08:21
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Quote: "what`s wierd is that you can take a old dell laptop battery, 100ml flamable spray bottle (uncompressed) and wire on to planes and short the laptop battery, put the spray on top and run, 5min later the battery is on fire and about to explode! Also, I may be going to london. Does anyone here go to the maribor swat club, if so I wanna shoot"


Somehow I suspect you're going to be "randomly" flagged when you attempt to fly next


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MSon
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 13:04
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Quote: "Also, for $30 you can get a toy airsoft gun"


Thats cheap, many years ago I use to have a G2000 BB Gun, but that was about £40, (About 80 USD), although if your in America, then i would assume that all that kind of stuff is cheaper over there

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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 13:06
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Speaking of spray bottles...

I had a can of axe that i just purchased before my plane ride (gotta smell nice!) that security told me i couldn't take on because it was to much liquid...i then proceeded to spray half of the bottle on myself and asked them "What about now?" ...

then they took me in a room and strip searched me down to my boxers and took everything out of my backpack, and even took my laptop apart

Guess they dont like sarcasm...

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Grandma
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 13:22
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Quote: "Guess they dont like sarcasm..."


They don't. They didn't like my joke: "Don't mind the ticking sound" either.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 13:44 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2008 13:44
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Well, you got to love Australia's customs

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MDBPuo-iRdk&feature=related

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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sp3ng
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 13:52
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as for the original post, i dont think he was talking about taking it with him on the plane, its more a matter of him not being allowed to play airsoft or even own an airsoft gun in australia without a FULL firearms license


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Veron
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 14:33
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Quote: "Guess they dont like sarcasm..."


Yeah, and don't casually ask your friend as you walk past the gate "Does my bomb look big in this?"


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tha_rami
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 14:34 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2008 14:36
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In any case, the fact that everyone HAS a gun in America doesn't sound like a reason to not ban them to me. Even moreso, actually. I mean, it takes only one moment of rage for someone to shoot someone. And people can go that they need to defend themselves, but I hear mighty little cases in which someone actually is able to defend him/herself by use of a gun. In most cases, the one being attacked dies, and only because guns are available.

Not only that, but those things give a false sense of safety, a feeling that is indoctrinated from an early age. Did any of them wonder why the whole damn world can do without gun shops? I know why: most other countries are safer, because there are less or barely any guns. In case of a shootout, it's always one gangster shooting at another (ex-)gangster.

Of course, people who require guns as a legal method of earning their income (hunters, cops, military) should be allowed to have them.

I guess there's no practical way to get all guns back. I guess America is screwed beyond repair in that sense.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 14:53
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Quote: "Of course, people who require guns as a legal method of earning their income (hunters, cops, military) should be allowed to have them."


And they do, people hunt in the UK but guns are illegal, all you need is a license and you can having a hunting gun, my next door neighbour used to have one. Hunting's okay as long as you're not some toff on the back of a horse with blood hounds chasing down a poor little fox. Our police tend not to carry fires arms either, though certain situations call fo it and Airport security can carry assault rifles.

However in America's case, the removal of guns may be impractical at the moment, you can imagine the amount of people you'd annoy, people would get paranoid of lawless individuals who have kept their guns etc. I suppose if you lightly remove them - reduce the number of gun shops, produce less ammunition etc. and remove the image betweem 'guns' and 'patriotism', you might have a chance of removing them and of course get prevent any 'gun' fear.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Grandma
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 15:05
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Guns don't kill people, people kill people. If you ban guns, people will find other things to kill with.

Quote: "I hear mighty little cases in which someone actually is able to defend him/herself by use of a gun."

That's because the mainstream media in the US don't like to report on pro-gun stories very much. They will froth at the chance to report on any story that demonizes them though.

As an established fact: banning guns will only remove them from the lawful citizens. Sure, criminals will have to look a little further for guns, but they always get them one way or another. They are criminals after all. And crime will skyrocket because the criminals feel a lot safer knowing the people are disarmed.

I think banning guns will do more bad than good.

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sp3ng
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 15:15
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Quote: "I think banning guns will do more bad than good."


at first maybe, but look at australia, weve had strict gun laws (take the original topic of this thread for example) in place for not too long and there rarely ever a shooting case here

although some people got axe-murdered recently


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SunnyKatt
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 15:49
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I agree with grandma on the gun issue... In fact, if everyone had a gun, then criminals wouldn't commit crimes as much because they knew everyone had a lethal weapon!

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sp3ng
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 16:04
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thats the train of thought that got america in its current state with firearms though!!! thats what i was trying to say in my last post


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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 21:55
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They stopped me from bringing my portal gun into Australia.
They told me I might depressurise the cabin.

Lee Bamber - Blame Beer
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Jeku
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2008 22:17 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2008 22:19
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Quote: "In any case, the fact that everyone HAS a gun in America doesn't sound like a reason to not ban them to me. "


That is a myth--- you're just prolonging the stereotype. And another thing is you're not understanding the ludicrous proposition of banning guns as a solution to gun violence. The bad guys will not hand them over on their way to church. Last time I checked murder and rape were banned too.

Quote: "I guess America is screwed beyond repair in that sense."


Excuse me while I rant, but is America the only country in the world with gun violence? No.


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Agent Dink
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 02:33
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In fact I know very few people with firearms and even fewer who even use the ones they own. Americans are not all mindless killing machines ready to blow each others heads off just cause we own guns. I could just as easily jump over the counter of a corner store with a knife hold it to the clerks throat and tell them to empty the register then escape out the back door.

Even if you take guns away, the bad people aren't gonna give them back and I'm sure 90% of the criminals have unregistered weapons anyhow so there is no easy way to remove them because no one official knows they even have one.

There are many things that are illegal in our country that are still issues, just like Jeku said. Making something illegal does NOT always help the issue.

I mean something as innocent as MP3 downloading is illegal in most countries. Does that stop anyone from doing it if they honestly don't care that there is a law there? No. Same with guns. If I really want to acquire music illegally I will. If I want to acquire a firearm illegally I will. The latter may be slightly more difficult, but not really if you know the right people and people in gangs and the majority of criminals probably do.

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn

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Jeku
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 03:48
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I guess I just have an issue with people claiming a gun ban will nip gun violence in the butt. It's not really comparable to stealing, because stealing is wrong in most cases, no argument there. But simply owning a gun is *not* wrong, and therefore banning guns is not the right move to curb gun violence. Will banning knives stop knife violence? Well, knives are useful for so many other things that are not illegal--- i.e. gutting a fish, cutting wires, or any manner of things. So, I would also disagree with simply banning something because mental people use them as a weapon. Hell, are we going to ban the Internet because pedophiles use it to distribute child porn? Ban videogames because little Billy skips school to go play in the arcades?


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 04:13 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2008 04:14
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You know, somebody used a similar argument to me with drugs. (that drugs should be legal) Don't worry I agree with you Jeku (well to a certain degree)

It'd be good not to need such self defence - still have a hunting weapon, people hunt with guns in the UK, there's a gun crime problem (but they haven't bought their guns in the shop, they've got them illegally, though it'd be funny have a chav mugs someone with an Air Rifle) - but cases are seemily rare of people being killed, though it seems to be more between gangs than innocent bystanders. Guncrime will always be there, drugs will always be there, paedophiles will always be there - it's all illegal.

It'd be great for America not to need their guns for protection and any other countries with a similar situation.

However, I sure these are all 'decent' ideals, and of course what idealism is always great, because that's the point of it - however not necessarily realistic or practical - I think the gun problem is one America will solve for themselves (or not) and we all really should be worrying about our own countries' problems (or ignoring them, depends on your level of apathy). I'm sure America's gun crime isn't going to solve any problems here, unless we can find a real Texan psycho-shooter stereotype to threaten the right people.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Thraxas
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 11:56
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Quote: "Guns don't kill people, people kill people. If you ban guns, people will find other things to kill with.
"


This... Look at England at the moment. It seems every time I look at the English news someone has been stabbed to death in London...

Banning guns isn't the solution... Banning computer games is! Particularly Grand Theft Auto which was made by the Devil!

[center]
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 12:07
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Quote: "stabbed to death in London..."


Or shot, we have a black market too (though guncrime in not as a big problem as it is in America) Though it is mostly stabbings when it comes to weapons, somebody I know's mum not so long ago stabbed somebody in the street, the person survived. So yes stabbings happen, but they're easier to survive from, it's harder to defend or recover from a gunshot, as a comedian once said "Guns don't kill people, but they bloody help"

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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MSon
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 12:11
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I was reading a manchester local paper this morning, and that said knife stabbings for under 16 year old was up about 88%, and about 20% for adults, this kind of shows that banning guns wont stop violance as guns are banned here.

and for anyone who says its because of violant computer games and films, im a calm non violant person, but i grew up on computer games and horror movies like the dentist, it, pet cemetary, ect.

Everyone Be Cool, You, Be Cool.
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