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Geek Culture / Big Brothers Watching you

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MSon
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 18:14 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2008 18:21
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Google have recentley been ordered by a US court to hand over details of every user that has ever visited there YouTube site, along with log-in ID of users, computers IP Addresses Used and video clip details, Combine this with things like with Virgin disclosing online download details and SP's watching and recording what sites you visit, ect, is it just me or is the net no longer a place where you can rome free without being monitered?

Everyone Be Cool, You, Be Cool.
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5867Dude
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 18:45
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I think all this is stupid.
Why would a court want to see all the people who go on youtube. It must be like a stack of paper all the way to the ceiling!

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MSon
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 18:54 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2008 19:08
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They where ordered to give the data to Viacom which owns MTV and Paramount Pictures so they know who has been watched anythink which is copywrited, this meens if you watch a small clip of a TV Show, They will proberley keep you on the list, maybe try to sue a few as various companies have done recentley with Download Sites, but with YouTube.

I think these companies need to cool down as this Companie's Suing Customers seems to be happening much more, eventually people will just start boycotting them

Everyone Be Cool, You, Be Cool.
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The Nerd
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 19:14 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2008 19:15
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Quote: "this meens if you watch a small clip of a TV Show, They will proberley keep you on the list"


that's gonna be one heck of a list o_0 Silly people

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Homey the Clown
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 19:24
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I wish i could watch old shows that arent on tv anymore. that would tick me off the most. I use to watch a few episodes of Rocco's modern life and then they deleted them... where else can i watch this!? i guess ill go to limewire... shows that are canceled that we loved and you know they wont make dvd seasons of them should be allowed on youtube...not like they were making money off it in the first place.

"I don't think so... Homey don't play that."
-Homey D. Clown
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Benjamin
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 19:36
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Speaking of which, has anyone read about this?

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Tom J
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 19:38
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Ah yes, just this morning I was reminded Virgin were sending out 800 threat letters to Torrent users. But then the internet is so big, theres bound to be various controversies.

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MSon
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 19:43 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2008 19:47
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Quote: "France's pioneering ``three strikes and you're out'' antipiracy law, which could knock persistent offenders off the Internet for up to a year, will hit the statute books early next year"


i dont but could download through my mobile, DS, Laptop, what will they do, confirscate all your electronics aswell? I dont know about in france, but that type of law would be pritty much uninforsable in the UK unless they just ban a vast proportion of the population.

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dark donkey
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 21:41
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I went to youtube watched a program then come and read this :S. But how can they do this shouldent they sue the people who upload the videos or youtube for iligal content?. Are the bbc doing this does anybodt know?. They have a youtube channel they upload parts of programs to.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2008 22:43 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2008 22:48
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Data protection act anyone? Don't say governmental officials in other countries can override that? I wouldn't like the idea of information being secure, though you know people can be idiots - especially banks in the UK have 'lost' or 'misplace' data files whilst doing transfers via disks between places, in the wrong hands or somebody makes a mistake with that data whilst retrieving it, well, I'd be able to sue, but my privacy would have been compromised.

As I'm in the UK, I'm sure people in the USA wouldn't be allowed to legally access my private data without the right permission.

Probably a waste of resourse - I mean search through accounts takes time and money and I'm sure American tax dollars could be better spent?

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Samoz83
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 00:16
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Don't worry it's all done to help with the war against Eurasia

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Jeku
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 01:13
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You don't have an inherent right to privacy on the Internet, regardless of what country you're from. When you go to YouTube or any other site there are no guaranteed privacy laws, and nothing legally binding them to keeping data. Google chose not to disclose this list at their own decision, whereas Viacom had to get the courts involved. Unplug your network cable if you're worried about being tracked, because it's not illegal.

Quote: "As I'm in the UK, I'm sure people in the USA wouldn't be allowed to legally access my private data without the right permission."


YouTube is an American site, and the videos are hosted on US soil. It doesn't matter whether you're an English citizen, they don't owe you privacy to anything you do on the net.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 01:32 Edited at: 4th Jul 2008 01:33
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If there's no law, I think there should be one - I mean whenever you give you're contact details to a computer your data is protected under the data protection act - it should be no different if it's an internet company. I mean if non-internet companies or doctors are not allowed to release information, then why should it be different because an agreement is made over the internet?

Not that I have anything to hide, I've only uploaded 2 harmless videos on youtube and use my google account for emailing and for backing up documents, however I'm fond of the idea that my data is protected and safe - if there's no law against giving my information out, then there's more of a chance that data I type into when signing up to a website that I'd become a victim of fraud. (and that's one reason we have a data protection act, right?)

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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soapyfish
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 01:45
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Pffft, they just want to know who watches all those videos of cats playing the piano.


Your post count
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Chenak
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 01:59 Edited at: 4th Jul 2008 02:09
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DPA does not extend to other countries unless the data is processed in the UK and distributed by a UK company or whatever to another country. The US has no data protection whatsoever (well they do, but it is on the same level as the "X-files" where only 2 strange people occassionly go on crazy adventures in order to solve mysterious cases where public information seemingly disappears...) So they can do anything they want with your data as long as you willingly submit it to them and agree to those agreements no one ever reads.

The DPA will NEVER be applied in the US because they want all your data without restriction and they don't want to put up with the consequences when they loose that data.

Going for the people who watch the "pirated" stuff on youtube is incredibly stupid. Going for the people who post would in theory prevent more pirated crap being posted there in first place.

If however you do not have an account on youTube and they retrieve your information then aquire personal data it is possible they could be done for the DPA, well maybe not them but possibly the ISP. Since you don't enter any personal data at all, you don't agree to anything it is possible. They can't just grab personal info from thin air, it must come from somewhere within the UK meaning it is subject to our laws, even if they are doing it from the US ( ESPECIALLY since some US lawyers seem to think all of their laws apply in the UK)
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 02:13
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I think going after murderers and rapists would probably make better use of the time and money rather than watching our every move on the internet. Yeah police it, but you know having this much surveillance could pressurise people's freedom on the net.

Quote: "
Going for the people who watch the "pirated" stuff on youtube is incredibly stupid. Going for the people who post would in theory prevent more pirated crap being posted there in first place."


Yes, that's probably an easier target to take down - if you catch every person who's seen something pirated on the net then your prisons will be pretty crowded - stopping the crime at its source is more efficient right?

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 02:36
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This is a government. Governments do not understand efficiency or its encouraging factors, hence the NHS.


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Mr Tank
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 03:08
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Maybe there's no law against it, but consumers should pay attention to this stuff, and put pressure on companies to fight the government and speak out against this kind of snooping.

People are always saying stuff like "if you have nothing to fear, you have nothing to hide", but that assumes that the government is good, and laws sensible.

For instance, next year you will be able to get three years in jail and go on the sex offenders register with all the rapists and child abusers simply for posessing pictures of consenting adults involved in legal activities that the authorities find offensive. There is no way to know where the line is without going to court. Most people don't want to go to court, so will self censor themselves. Those accused will rather take a caution (and give the police +1 on their "targets"), than go through the courts system.

The government seem to be censoring the internet more and more. It looks like in the future, they intend the only legal material to be that which has been passed (read cut, or self censored by the producer) by the BBFC. In a world where there are some things an adult is not allowed to read, hear or see, this is a dreadful thing.

Then there's the "terrorist" thing. Anyone see "Taking Liberties"? If they can't lock you up for being a bit kinky, they'll get you for possessing a map of the underground and expressing discontent with the government.

Orwell was right.

Check out melonfarmers.co.uk

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Jeku
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 03:21 Edited at: 4th Jul 2008 03:23
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@Seppuku -

Check this out: http://www.google.com/privacy_terms.html

This is used for YouTube, which is a Google company.

Item 5.2:
Quote: "5.2 You agree to use the Services only for purposes that are permitted by (a) the Terms and (b) any applicable law, regulation or generally accepted practices or guidelines in the relevant jurisdictions (including any laws regarding the export of data or software to and from the United States or other relevant countries)."


It is against the law to upload copyrighted material in the US.

Item 20.7
Quote: "20.7 The Terms, and your relationship with Google under the Terms, shall be governed by the laws of the State of California without regard to its conflict of laws provisions. You and Google agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts located within the county of Santa Clara, California to resolve any legal matter arising from the Terms. Notwithstanding this, you agree that Google shall still be allowed to apply for injunctive remedies (or an equivalent type of urgent legal relief) in any jurisdiction."


Can you claim ignorance that you didn't know it wasn't allowed? No:

Item 2.2(b):
Quote: "
2.2 You can accept the Terms by:
...
(B) by actually using the Services. In this case, you understand and agree that Google will treat your use of the Services as acceptance of the Terms from that point onwards.
"


Basically by being a member of YouTube, you are solely responsible for what you do on there, and Google will not be held responsible, and its users have to abide by US law, specifically California law.

Just like on the TGC forum you agree to abide by the AUP *before* you submit a post, on YouTube you agree to these rules by joining and using the site.

I am not a lawyer, so don't sue me if I'm wrong.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 03:31 Edited at: 4th Jul 2008 03:31
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Quote: "I think going after murderers and rapists would probably make better use of the time and money rather than watching our every move on the internet. Yeah police it, but you know having this much surveillance could pressurise people's freedom on the net."


The police are not the ones attempting to gain youtube data in this case. Viacom is trying to get that data, another private company.

They're disputing it through the courts, because they can't come to an amicable agreement.


Hurray for teh logd!
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Chenak
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 04:27 Edited at: 4th Jul 2008 04:31
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Quote: "t is against the law to upload copyrighted material in the US"


Keyword here is upload. You shouldn't upload copyright material but if you watch it they apparently get your details and put you on a special list. Its quite easy to view copyrighted stuff without even knowing it. Especially to the casual internet user. If they are that worried about their copyright stuff being uploaded then maybe they should manage their website better instead of attacking the sometimes innocent internet users.

A private company cannot legally force a company to give them personal data they are responsible for, in England anyway, america should have a similar law, even if it is ignored. However it is perfectly legal for police or government agency to get this information on the request of a private company (if there is sufficient evidence) and then pass on the relavent information to the private company so that they could take action (sueing them or whatever).

Passing ALL personal data is obscene and should NEVER happen especially when its being passed down to some random private company.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 04:33
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Quote: "A private company cannot legally force a company to give them personal data they are responsible for, in England anyway, america should have a similar law, even if it is ignored. However it is perfectly legal for police or government agency to get this information on the request of a private company (if there is sufficient evidence) and then pass on the relavent information to the private company so that they could take action (sueing them or whatever)."


You're arguing semantics at this point.

Anyway, I think the idea here is to sue google, not viewers. If they get that info, they'll have a case for suing google for a few billion.


Hurray for teh logd!
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Zaibatsu
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 05:29
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Quote: "I use to watch a few episodes of Rocco's modern life and then they deleted them... where else can i watch this!?"


there's a few unofficial DVD sets that have all the episodes. I bought one of em.

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Chenak
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 11:27
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Quote: "You're arguing semantics at this point."


What do you mean? Giving a tonne of personal data to a company is far worse than being forced to giving it to the government agency, at least there is less chance for the data to be abused... besides the government agency would be forced to find some legitimate evidence to do so and then they can only get the information of the people who have been proven to violate the law. That governement agency would also be 100% responsible for the data if it is lost, abused or whatever.

It seems that google have been force to send ALL private information directly to this company. This is illegal in the UK and should be in the US, DPA or no DPA it must exist somewhere.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 11:51
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I see that Jeku, I'm not concerned so much about the current laws but what I think the laws should be. (I realise that the agreement is for US laws) The Data Protection Act exists in the UK to protect customers/users, thus it is illegal for a company to use your information without your permission, if in the US a company can do whatever the hell they like with it, then that's morally wrong and should be illegal regardless.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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MSon
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 13:05
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Security on the internet has only gone downhill in recent years, now there also doing this thing where there going to open up more high level domains, things like .Bank which you would of thought would need more regulation, but from what i understand these will be comming with certain deregulation meening anyone will be able to register a high level domain like .bank or .School, this will proberley mean a large increase in fraudulant sites, Personally I would of hoped only a bank like Natwest could use www.Natwest.bank, but unfortunatly it will be a simular first come first bases as there was with .com, ect.

Everyone Be Cool, You, Be Cool.
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tha_rami
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 16:43 Edited at: 4th Jul 2008 16:45
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Well, I think its not really a problem. As long as my data is not sold for bad purposes, I wouldn't care. The internet is going this way, and everyone could've known it. It's too big to let run alone, and as soon as governments intervene, you get this.

Seeing the data is used in court, as far as I'm concerned, it's good. Downloading is illegal, after all, and anyone downloading is a pirate and this does include streaming, in my book. And France's idea of plugging out the connection of pirates seems good to me.

In any case, final point is that as soon as you visit a website, you are a visitor. The laws applicable to the site at the location of the site are from that point on the laws applicable to whatever you do on that site. So, basically, yes - the internet is a horrible place for your privacy.

So what? We knew that already.


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
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MSon
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 17:27
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its still wrong, what if a company went to microsoft to get every email ever sent under the bases that some people may be attaching Copywrited Material, people would not accept that, but tweak the situation a bit, and it's accepted.

actually if you take the rulling on google, couldn't other US Companies use this to there advantage to take other web companies to court?

Everyone Be Cool, You, Be Cool.
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Chenak
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 18:00 Edited at: 4th Jul 2008 18:02
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If you are willing to accept it so easily then you deserve to have your privacy taken away from you. You have a right to your privacy, online or offline. The only situation when personal data should be released is if you concent to it (you have to agree to terms & conditions) or if law enforcement agencies have a legitimate claim to get your information.

Quote: "Downloading is illegal, after all, and anyone downloading is a pirate and this does include streaming, in my book"

So what? If you use youtube at all even if you did not watch dodgy clips YOUR information is being sent to some company without your permission. They can do whatever they want with that information, including sell it since they are US based so the DPA like laws are easily workaroundable. This can eventually extend to identity fraud.
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Mr Z
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 18:24 Edited at: 4th Jul 2008 18:25
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I don´t like this. It is like in my own country, there is something (a supercomputer, I think) that keeps a tap on all information travelling across the border, like what I´m typing now. So, if I write something about terrorism, that computer will take the message, analyze it and see if it might be something that might prove that there is a threat to my country, and then it will send the message over to humans who then will read it (if anyone of you are reading this, I say hello). At last that is how it appears to me.

All I want on the net is to be left alone. I want to be able to surf to youtube, google, thegamecreators and all the other sites I like without anyone or anything watching me, unless I have agreed on it.

There is a fine line between taking on the criminal world and creating a big brother system. The first one is good, the second one is really bad.

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
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MSon
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 18:33 Edited at: 4th Jul 2008 18:34
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where currently living in the 2nd one



Everyone Be Cool, You, Be Cool.
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Grandma
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 18:36
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I agree to Mr Z, here. wise words.

I like to use scroogle though, a more anonymous system.

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

Making yesterdays games, today!
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Jeku
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 21:41
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Quote: "All I want on the net is to be left alone. I want to be able to surf to youtube, google, thegamecreators and all the other sites I like without anyone or anything watching me, unless I have agreed on it."


You can't. Period. There is no privacy on the Internet and it's not your right to have privacy here. Most of us use pseudo-names and assume we are protected by some invisible "Internet" law. There is no such thing.


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Chenak
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 22:00
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Quote: "Internet and it's not your right to have privacy here"
So if I were to post your address and phone number right here right now you would be OK with that? What if TGC decided to give away your details to a random private company so that you could be flooded with spam and a whole lot of other nasty things someone could do with even the smallest amount of information? You think we don't have the right to remain private on the internet? Whats wrong with you?

True the internet is not safe and your IP address is recorded all the time as you browse as well as other stuff. You email address, phone number, real name and address should remain private at all times unless you release that information yourself, or you have broken the law or under suspicion, in which case ONLY a legitmate authority is permited to view your information.

What I find surprising is even one person saying its OK for the internet not being private, that your not against your information being passed around without your knowledge. Its actually very worrying to me
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Anonymous User
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 22:07
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That's it I'm now becoming very paranoid and I'm going to use Tor for all of my internet activities. Sorted.

???
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Mr Z
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 22:20
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Quote: "You can't. Period. There is no privacy on the Internet and it's not your right to have privacy here. Most of us use pseudo-names and assume we are protected by some invisible "Internet" law. There is no such thing."


That I cannot is not the same thing as I do not have the right to. If I sign up in a forum, and I agree on that they can logg my IP, that is one thing. If that site then make a deal, selling my IP to a company, so that they can use it for whatever, that is wrong. Or those companys that keep a track on our surfing habits, so that they, to take one example, can direct ads to us, or things like that, that is wrong to.

I do not claim there is an "Internet law", I say I don´t want companys or goverments tracking what I do, and I have all right for that.

Quote: "That's it I'm now becoming very paranoid and I'm going to use Tor for all of my internet activities. Sorted."


What is "Tor"?

Darkness, you haunt me. If I give in, I would be an monster beyond imagining. Light, you guide me. Thanks to you, I see past the nothingness. Life, I choose to live in the light.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 22:26
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Right okay, so it's perfectly legal if I hacked Sky by Broadband so I could get free sky TV right? I mean if there are no laws protecting OUR data, then no laws should protect the data of companies or anything governmental you can get on the internet and use it?


I mean there SHOULD be a law, the fact there isn't annoys me, you know, Amazon have my debit card details, if it was Amazon.co.uk, then a company holds the right to redistribute my details - so then if I come across a small business to purchase business from, then I shouldn't do business with them or buy their product because there's no law to protect the data I would be sending them.

So the fact there isn't a law (except the UK's data protection act) against this, I consider it very stupid.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Chenak
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Posted: 4th Jul 2008 22:49 Edited at: 4th Jul 2008 22:51
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Those kinda things regarding bank account details, credit card information and things like that are covered by computer crime laws which most countries have. Passing of addresses, names, email addresses and personal data is under the Data Protection Act which only Britain and the EU have (sort of, scotland and the EU have different legislations but do more or less the same thing). Of course violation of DPA generally leads to computer crime or "infringements of human rights"
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 00:38
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There is some right to privacy then - and there are laws for the internet - at least in some places, except in one place that has a lot of big Internet companies, America.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Deathead
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 00:42 Edited at: 5th Jul 2008 00:42
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Man I'm glad that I live in Britain with all its stabbings. And not to worry about the internet controlling are privacy. Man what if it finds about.. Viacom are perverts.lol jk.


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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 02:00
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Hehehe, good ol' Britain.....

Any of you seen that movie "This is England?" It's.....thought provoking......

I personnally thought this sorta thing would be banned in every civilised country on the planet, until I heard on the news that some local council's have micro-chipped te wheelie bins.....

I often have an urge to crowbar 'em off......

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 02:37
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Quote: "Any of you seen that movie "This is England?" It's.....thought provoking......"


Yup, very good movie, though I doubt it's relevant to the topic. Though, all those skinheads were like Big Brother's to the little guy, but I'm sure we're not talking about that kind of big brother.

Quote: "until I heard on the news that some local council's have micro-chipped te wheelie bins"


Yes, got to love surveillance technology, what a way to invoke paranoia.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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Jeku
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 04:06
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Quote: "So if I were to post your address and phone number right here right now you would be OK with that?"


Hey don't kill the messenger--- I'm just stating the truth. I don't run the government

Quote: "What if TGC decided to give away your details to a random private company so that you could be flooded with spam and a whole lot of other nasty things someone could do with even the smallest amount of information? You think we don't have the right to remain private on the internet? Whats wrong with you?"


Excuse me? Do you think this is my choice? It's the truth-- you can't expect any form of privacy on the Internet. If you buy an adult video on a website, they can store your IP and turn it over to the government. Don't blame me for this. What's wrong with you.

Quote: "that your not against your information being passed around without your knowledge."


WTF. Did you not notice that I copy and pasted the YouTube rules straight from the Google site? There's no personal filter or bias coming from my posts. If you think your privacy on the Internet is a personal right, then you have another thing coming

Quote: "If that site then make a deal, selling my IP to a company, so that they can use it for whatever, that is wrong."


Google is not *selling* your IP address to Viacom. They're being forced to hand it over due to court order.

Quote: "and I have all right for that."


Believe what you want. The truth and what you want are sometimes two polar opposites.

I love how some of you expect to go to a 3rd party website created by a *for-profit* company, and then expect to use their free services whichever way you want and by your own rules. Wake up.

And I'm not the leader of the Internet so don't blame me for this


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Chenak
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 05:32 Edited at: 5th Jul 2008 05:52
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Quote: "Excuse me? Do you think this is my choice? It's the truth-- you can't expect any form of privacy on the Internet. If you buy an adult video on a website, they can store your IP and turn it over to the government. Don't blame me for this. What's wrong with you."


Im not saying you can expect privacy on the internet, from what you said it sounded like you were OK with your data being thrown around without permission when you said
Quote: "and it's not your right to have privacy here"
Im not blaming you, just going by what you said, maybe I misinterpreted but I dunno. Anyway if a website did store my ID and did send it to the governent then thats fine as long as there is just cause. Whats "wrong" with me is I have had to study UK data protection and Computer Crime laws for over 3 years and I am appalled at the way data is handled overseas sometimes and how people act as though their personal details going to random places even with governent approval is not a cause for concern. Although the UK has a tendancy to "loose" data once in a while lol...

Quote: "Hey don't kill the messenger--- I'm just stating the truth. I don't run the government "
Not trying to, was just an example. Sorry if it came across that way. Again from your statement it sounded like you were for private info being posted even if it is here on TGC.

Quote: "***. Did you not notice that I copy and pasted the YouTube rules straight from the Google site? There's no personal filter or bias coming from my posts"


Swearing is bad It wasn't specifically aimed at anyone, just in general. I also stated that it was surprising anyone was OK with it, I wasn't debating if anything you quoted was true or not, where did you get that idea from? Also take particular note of the "shoulds" and "is". If i got some the wrong way round point it out to me but I think they are right O.o

Quote: "Google is not *selling* your IP address to Viacom. They're being forced to hand it over due to court order. "
Viacom can sell the information if they wanted to. Not that it is likely they will, but with all that info it would be tempting. They are not getting just offending IP's from google they seem to be getting all of them. If it was offending IP's only I wouldnt have an issue with it that much.

Quote: "If you think your privacy on the Internet is a personal right, then you have another thing coming"
This is easy to mis interpret for me, are you against private information being passed around without permission or not? Im not trying to say your biased or anything, I dunno where you got that from. I'm just confused as to what you are trying to say. I already said I know internet privacy is rubbish, its still bloody wrong for it to be so bad though!

And yes, I KNOW privacy on the internet is a personal right. If a person submitted my address on the internet and they obtained this information in the UK or commited the act within the UK then I can take them to court and claim damages. This may or may not apply to other countries. The laws and violations I've stated I know apply in the UK, I'm not sure about other countries. I mearly stated that it was worrying there are some people who are willing to take it.

If you think its OK for information to be used on the internet freely then thats fine, its your opinion. If it goes wrong, you will start to realise how important DPA is, if it goes OK then you got nothing to worry about!
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 06:00
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I thought this was a thread about the book 1984, lol.

It doesn't surprise me though (About the US government doing this). Next thing you know they'll take keep track of everything you buy, and the credit card or debit card numbers which were used, the alias' which were used. Before you know it, they'll invade MySpace and FaceBook or what have you. lol.

In my opinion, shouldn't the money that they've used on this go to, umm, well avoiding any further debt, or things that actually matter?


Cheers,

-naota

"I used to do a lot of time travelling when I was younger. I called it 'ta-kwee-la' You would drink this potion and wake up 3 days in the future!" - Craig Ferguson
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Jeku
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 09:53
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Quote: "Viacom can sell the information if they wanted to."


I'm pretty sure they can't turn around and legally sell it. When's the last time evidence was sold? I'm pretty sure that's illegal

Quote: "And yes, I KNOW privacy on the internet is a personal right."


Where'd you get that information? There is no right to privacy on the net.

Quote: "If a person submitted my address on the internet and they obtained this information in the UK or commited the act within the UK then I can take them to court and claim damages."


Ok let's get some things straight. When I talk about privacy I don't mean a company selling your information without your authorization. When you visit YouTube you give them permission to log your IP simply by using their service, and that is outlined in the link I gave. Your bank is still not allowed to sell your address, that's not what I'm talking about. They *are* allowed to store your IP and will hand it over to the authorities if they demand it through a court order.

YouTube *is* allowed to sell ads based on what you view, as it's outlined in their doc.

But being a human being does not expressly give you a right to privacy on the Internet. You're protected by your government's laws, and if Viacom decides to sue you for uploading data, they will have to go through the UK government to get you (if that's even possible).


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ionstream
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 10:03
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OH EMM GEE ORWELL WAS RIGHT! DRACONIAN! 1984! ETC!

And now a some pretentious Latin phrase that translates to "there goes our freedom" but makes me sound smarter because it's Latin.

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tha_rami
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 11:47 Edited at: 5th Jul 2008 11:50
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No, I don't deserve to have my privacy taken away, there is no such thing as privacy on the internet. The data is passed through numerous computers, nodes and the like before it reaches the computer where it needs to be, where it is in turn stored WITH YOUR consensus because you AGREED to use the site. IP logging is inherent to the internet, and you agree to that by USING the internet.

There's no privacy taken away now, there never was such a thing as 'privacy' on the internet, and that has been a logical conclusion for the past, what, seven years?

Thank god there's no such thing as that, too. The internet is a place with too much power and importance to let people roam around anonymously. It's the equivalent of going V for Vendetta style with masks, and what you get is Anarchy. Complete anarchy is a bad thing on a place like the internet - people need to be accountable for their acts both here and in real life - as far as there is a distinction, and come to think about it, there is no such thing as a distinction between those - only the fact that a website can be 'foreign soil' with 'foreign laws'.

And BTW, get a grip, dude - Jeku is just stating the facts. Pretty obvious facts at that, too.


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 12:03
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Quote: "Where'd you get that information? There is no right to privacy on the net."


Right to privacy should be a human right unless you're willing to give it up, whether it's the internet, your home, your computer, your work place.

Quote: "and then expect to use their free services whichever way you want and by your own rules. Wake up."


Not by our rules, but there should be moral laws for the internet outside of European countries that have it. You do have the right to have your data protected in the UK whether it's online or not, that's because in England it's illegal for a company to use your information without your direct permission. Like we've said, it should be the same elsewhere, because to use certain website you need to give your personal information or you don't end up using it and is it too much to ask for there to be laws to be safe? We know what the situation is, but doesn't mean we have to agree that it's right and we discuss what right we should have.

Like we've said, companies in the UK can't use your information without your permission whether it's in the real world or on the internet. Why should it make a difference if you using a company on the internet or one that isn't and that's a reason why that law exists here and we think it's a pretty good law that keeps our data safe. We think other countries should adopt such a law as a lot of companies aren't located in the UK, is it really such an illogical thing to argue?

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 5th Jul 2008 13:06
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Yeh...the Data Protection Act is pretty important here in Britain, especially since someone finding out about your pin and card number can effectively clean out your bank account......

It's like if you loan someone a DVD, you expect them to watch it, tell you what they thought, then give it back...not lend it out to everyone in town......

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