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Geek Culture / Thinking about Torque

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Punk13
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 09:09
Hey everyone i was thinking of getting another engine. I'm not leaving fpsc but i just want something to have fun with but also that has commercial quality's i already use

Fpsc
3d game maker
The Games Factory
RPG MAKER

and i wanted to get another engine and was thinking about torque. It seems very pro and it could make a quality game with it. I was looking under these characteristic's

Great Graphics
Can hold alot of polies and keep a good frame rate.


Minimal scripting

User Friendly interface.

And is all around Fun.

oh and be able to make commercial games and sell.

Now im not the best scripter and really dont want scripting but im not afraid to get my hands dirty. And i was wondering if there was an event editor so i can create events similar too rpg makers event editor.
I was at first turned away because many people said it was very difficult.

but this guy makes it look easy.




http://youtube.com/watch?v=ESDW8l2p9Tg

http://youtube.com/watch?v=z06jiznubCw&feature=related

So is it really that easy?



And what version should i get?



ThankX
Punk13

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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 09:50
theres two things in life that don't mix. good game engines, and easy. its just impossible. if some one could make that they would be the richest person in the world, because indi game company's or even just one guy could get it and make tons of money on games. it would also ruin the gaming industry because all the big companys like bungie and Nintendo would go out of business, so you can say good by to quality story's and and character development, there will just be thousands of cheap crappy video games. and then will come THE DECLINE OF VIDEO GAMES! and no one wants that. i don't want that, you don't want that.

so your choices are:
A: buy a engine that you will probably need to learn alot of scripting and spend a wile following tutorials and stuff, probably years before making anything of quality.

B: use a realy easy to use engine that wont do much like the 3d game maker

C: get fps creator X10, which is the most powerful and user freindly fps engine on the market. the only problem, it needs X10. that means it needs vista. i hate vista. vista stupid.

ps sorry about the big long tirade, i just like to argue and prove points

Punk13
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 09:55
No i see what you mean i dotn mind learning some things but if its like db where you have to code everything and there is like no visual editor that spells trouble. Im just wanting to know whitch version is a good buy. Like if i got the egine id make a fairly simple game and probably by this content pack to help me out.

http://www.garagegames.com/products/90/

Van B
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 11:38
Have you looked at Leadwerks new engine?

It's got a scripted language which would probably be much easier than Torque, you can then expand onto C++ if you wanted to take things further. The editor looks great and it's next-gen graphics look amazing.


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Alucard94
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 13:00
Quote: "
Minimal scripting

oh and be able to make commercial games and sell."


... When you're looking at game engines these don't go together


Silvester
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 13:06
If you want to make commercial quality games, your forced to learn to either Program or Script...
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 15:42
I have a copy of Torque, it's a good stable engine - the only problem I find is with version 1.4.2 is that the water likes playing a disappearing act (version 1.4 didn't have it, when I bought it) I doubt it'll be a bug they'll fix as they have TGE at 1.5 (which I'd have to pay $50 to upgrade to) and TGEA is a different engine.

It's a nice engine, luckily you can download Torque Constructor for free with it, which is just like 3D world Studio in some respects, it's just a map builder designed specifically for Torque (however you can export to .lwo as well as the native Torque .dif format) actually for the TGC forum 3D modelling challenge this month I'm using Torque Constructor.

The map editor and GUI editor are easy to use, but the engine itself is quite complex - I'm still having trouble using it, the amount of times I've tried getting this Melee code snippet to work is immense. To make games into Torque you'll need to know how to use the scripting engine (which doesn't come with an IDE, but there are a couple of free IDEs and a fantastic one you can purchase on the GG site (which I was disappointed about as I was using the IDE for free during the BETA stage)) The scripting isn't so bad. But if the engine doesn't have something you need you have to code it in C++ with the source code - which sounds daunting, but the brilliant thing about Torque is that:

It has massive amounts of documentation
It has a massive base of snippets for scriptin and editing the source
It has 3 books (last time I check) jam packed with information to learn - I've got the "3D game Programming All in One" book by Ken Finney, the version used in the book is a bit outdated (1.3) however it has a lot of great info in there.

But learning it with all that can be a bit of struggle, but if you have the time you can do it, the resources are all there.

For making content you'll need to bear in mind Torque uses its own file formats, which as .dts and .dif - for .dif Torque Constructor (Free), Quake Army Knife (Free), Deled and 3DWorld studio can export, for .dts, Maya, Blender, 3DSMax, Milkshape, Lightwave and Softimage can export.

The engine is powerful, you just need time to dedicate to it (which is why mine's collecting virtual dust)

Alternatively there are other engines - Leadwerks is really an Engine with Physics, awesome graphics and scripting and an editor - might be worth buying (I've been contemplating on it) but it sounds like to me, you want:

Something that looks good, allows you to make a good game, yet being easy. Now, I found a solution to that myself, it's called NeoAxis, which is based off of the Ogre graphics engine - you can get nice results, it's easy to use (I'm not a fan of its editor so much) the scripting can be done by clicking, you can edit the source in C# if you need it - it's poorly documented but there are loads of examples - it comes with a free non-commercial version, so it's worth playing with until you decide. Also, there's a resource editor which can be great for setting things up (Animation, entities, items, materials, physics and so on) - NeoAxis uses the Ogre .mesh file format.

I've been playing with NeoAxis recently and will be releasing a small project in it. It has its disadvantages of course - I feel Torque is more solid and is more professional standard, mind you NeoAxis isn only at version 0.56, so it's far from its main build and it probably good for hobbiests.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Inspire
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 18:41
I can't even watch the videos, the guys voice is way to obnoxious and he won't stop breathing into the microphone.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 20:04
Just to add - consider, there are 3 version of Torque (excluding TorqueX, which I'll explain in a minute):

Torque Game Builder: Designed for 2D games, designed as their simpler application. Though the TGC adventure starter kit looks 3D, it's Isometric 2D that looks awesome.

Torque Game Engine (The one I own): Design for 3D games, was their main product - is the best documented with the most number of working code snippets - it's graphics are last gen. Meant as a less simple application.

Torque Game Engine Advance (AKA Torque Shader Engine): Designed as a next generation solution to game making for indies, however it's meant to be the hardest of the lot - though not differing too much from TGE, but from what I understand it isn't as well explained as TGE.

TorqueX is basically TGB and Torque3D made for XNA - basically the same as the above, but there to make life easier for those who want to make an XNA game.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Sid Sinister
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 20:16
It was pretty annoying

I think I'll be developing my own engine when the time comes. Thats a few years out when I have both the money and knowledge to pour into it. But torque does look really fun

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
Punk13
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 20:37
Hey thanks for all the help ya the tgea looks amazing

http://garagegames.com/products/torque/tgea/

Now i was wondering can i buy the



And use it in the engine mentioned above? and about leadweaks it seems cool but i dont see much of how you control events and story stuff like story zones and stuff like that.

Sunflash
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 22:52
Quote: "And use it in the engine mentioned above? and about leadweaks it seems cool but i dont see much of how you control events and story stuff like story zones and stuff like that."


Me neither. But seeing as you have scripting and C++ support, you could work with that to accomplish your tasks

Mountain Dew, happiness in a bottle.
Anonymous User
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 23:34
Quote: "And use it in the engine mentioned above? and about leadweaks it seems cool but i dont see much of how you control events and story stuff like story zones and stuff like that"


Neither does Torque. The majority of game engines don't support anything like that. Instead you have to code it yourself with the scripting languages. To tell you the truth it isn't that hard to do that. Just setting up a load of variables and creating things like triggers (easy to do). AI would be the hardest thing to do though.

???
Punk13
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Posted: 21st Jul 2008 23:55
See if any of these engines supported ruby then id be set.....

Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 01:13 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2008 01:14
@Punk13 - I own the Torque Game Builder *and* that Adventure Kit you have posted here. TGB is a pretty sweet engine for building a 2D game. There is scripting built into the engine, and there is a lot of "dragging and dropping" if that's your thing. Technically you can make a simple game with no code, using their drag and drop, much like you could make a simple game in Flash the same way.

I can't stress simple anymore. If you want anything more advanced than a "chase the mouse cursor" type of game, you will need to get your hands dirty with their scripting language. It's not as complicated as C++ but there's still a learning process.

The cool thing about TGB is you can export the game for XNA and run your game on a 360. That's cool

Anyways, it's a cool intro to game dev if programming in C++ is *not* your thing.


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 01:29
A starts kit for TGB will only work with TGB, so it won't work with TGE or TGEA. TGE comes with a FPS starter kit and a Driving starter kit, you can buy an RTS starter kit and there's an unofficial MMORPG starter kit. I don't know what starter kits are availible for TGEA.

If you don't mind starting with 2D, then Jeku is right TGB is a good starter - thr good thing is that the scripting language jumps between the 3 engines - so it's a good introductory package - so if you're interested on taking it further you might find it easier.

Of course download a demo and see what you can do.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Punk13
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 01:36
Thanks so whats the difference between tge and tgb

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 01:41 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2008 01:42
TGB is 2D and easier
TGE is 3D
TGEGA is 3D but more advanced with up-to-date graphic capabilities

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 01:44
Oh yah, Seppuku is right, and I forgot to mention that the same scripting language can be used between the engines.


Aertic
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 01:49
tourqe has bad indoors collision, one reason why the I would leave tourqe in a corner...

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 01:58
I've not experienced bad indoor collision myself, I've found its features to be solid...except in TGE 1.4.2 on 2 computers there's a glitch in the water.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Punk13
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 02:13
Oh ok guys im really thinking of buying tba with the starter kit i just have a few more questions

1) what does the splash screen look like? it says that you must have it at the beginning.

2) can i buy scripts and stuff?

3) are there premade scripts for talking npcs and stores and stuff either with the engine or starter kit?

Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 02:22
All those things can be found out by downloading and trying out the demo for yourself, and browsing the GarageGames store for add-on packs and stuff.


Punk13
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 02:40
Cool thanks ill give it a shot. really im interested in this adventure starer pack so much is im about to start a huge fpsc project with like 4 other people and i get tied of looking at that ugly grid all day so i need something on the side i wanted to try to make a small commercial game for a New section of my teams games that are cheaply priced but worth every penny. So i wanted to create maybe a 5-10 adventure using the same graphics as the adventure or better yet the adventure pack. and sell a sealed copy for like $10. id be worth it.
plus if in some way the game got popular i heard that torque has a 3d version of the orc so we can make a sequel but a longer 3d version

puppyofkosh
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 04:37
I'd also check out 3d game studio before you buy it. It can make MMO's I believe.

Aertic
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 06:53
Quote: "3d game studio"
some people said that 3dgs can do illgial things? lol... it was on a dark basic related list and the author just said 3dgs can do illigial things. lol.... anyway I saw 3dgs and looks ok.

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Please do not post non-specific requests, and read the stickies at [B]teh[/B] top of the board... "
Punk13
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 07:33
i just got the demo for tgb and
it scares me

flickenmaste
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 07:42
Torque is a very good engine..I talk to the developers at garage game a lot, there is a website that has good games that run in your browser..and they where all made in torque. www.instantaction.com is the site...garage games made it!


[url=http://userbarmaker.com/][img]
Sunflash
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 10:13
Quote: "So i wanted to create maybe a 5-10 adventure using the same graphics as the adventure or better yet the adventure pack. and sell a sealed copy for like $10. id be worth it."


I'd learn the engine before making any plans?



Quote: "I'd also check out 3d game studio before you buy it. It can make MMO's I believe."


I thought it was more of a level editor then a game engine... but I'm probably wrong.

Mountain Dew, happiness in a bottle.
Punk13
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 10:21
Your right, i need to find some tutorials

Silvester
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 11:07
Quote: "I thought it was more of a level editor then a game engine... but I'm probably wrong."


It is a level editor, with a scripting language included, C-Lite Script.
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 12:59 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2008 13:04
Quote: "3) are there premade scripts for talking npcs"


Yes (In TGE - you should be able to use these with the demo, the only scripts you can't use are those that require editing of the source, which isn't availible in the demo):

http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=3531

There are premade scripts and programming code for almost anything...the Torque resource base is quite massive.

There are also tutorials (you don't need to purchase Torque for these tutorials)

http://www.codesampler.com/torque.htm


Of course if you want TGB stuff you might need to look yourself - I don't have a copy and don't know whats availible for it.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Punk13
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 20:07
thanks in your opinion what should i start with i downloaded tgb and didnt get any of it....

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 20:50
Yeah, Torque can be confusing at the first time - I've not tried TGB, but no doubt it works no different to TGE. So I'll try to talk you through it (with TGE) You might find this tutorial doesn't tell you HOW to do it in TGB, but it should give you an idea of how Torque works to get you started. Best way to think about it is that your game is already built and you're modding it. (unless you edit the source in C++ which you can't do in the demo versions)








But like I've said before it might be a bit slow to learn, but it's a great engine once you work it out. (I've yet to sit down and learn Torque properly myself)

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Punk13
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2008 21:13
Wow, thank you for the tutorial i think that F10 and F11 thing might work with tgb thanks. ill write if i have any problems. Once agian thankyou

Aaron Miller
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2008 02:52
Quote: "theres two things in life that don't mix. good game engines, and easy. its just impossible. if some one could make that they would be the richest person in the world, because indi game company's or even just one guy could get it and make tons of money on games. it would also ruin the gaming industry because all the big companys like bungie and Nintendo would go out of business, so you can say good by to quality story's and and character development, there will just be thousands of cheap crappy video games. and then will come THE DECLINE OF VIDEO GAMES! and no one wants that. i don't want that, you don't want that.

so your choices are:
A: buy a engine that you will probably need to learn alot of scripting and spend a wile following tutorials and stuff, probably years before making anything of quality.

B: use a realy easy to use engine that wont do much like the 3d game maker

C: get fps creator X10, which is the most powerful and user freindly fps engine on the market. the only problem, it needs X10. that means it needs vista. i hate vista. vista stupid.

ps sorry about the big long tirade, i just like to argue and prove points"

No one seems to have corrected you on this, but Nintendo wouldn't go out of business, neither would Sony or Microsoft. All of those companies have one thing in common - THEY MAKE GAME CONSOLES. People love game consoles, and these companies have enough resources to make kick-ass game consoles. The problem with your theory above is that the person making the game needs to buy a license to be able to build for the console and sell the game. Cheap games are nice, and indies do make great innovations, but in all reality the market is with those console games, and the good PC games such as Crysis (Never played it, just an impression). I hope that made sense.

@Punk13
If you're going to spend your money on something, perhaps you should spend it on something that will expand your knowledge, not boast your ego from being able to make games easily. Try programming, you'll feel horrible if you spend so much money on things you'll never use again when there are free solutions that the commercial game developers and programmers use (C++). Grab Irrlicht or something, try out DarkGDK for simplicities sake, just expand your knowledge before hand instead of spending your money. There are several good engines I'd recommend, such as Nuclear Fusion version 3.04+ when they're available (Which should be very soon now), or get it as it is currently at 3.03 since the upgrade will be free.


Cheers,

-naota

I'm not a dictator to those that do stuff for me by will. Only those who don't.
Punk13
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2008 02:57
ok ill check it out thanks

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2008 03:09
Quote: "not boast your ego from being able to make games easily."


Torque isn't that easy, and it can help with learning, you're working with in a game engine, if you learn how to make a game with Torque you're doing yourself a favour, if you can learn how a game engine functions, how to work with it and even getting into C++ and working with the source then you've gained something. There are Universities that used Torque Game Engine as a part of their Games Programming courses. (One I know gets you started with C# and XNA and moves you up to C++ and Torque) I'm sure the Penny Arcade Game wasn't 'easily' made with Torque as with other projects.

However it really depends on what you want to get out of it - I've stressed a few times that Torque isn't easy, it takes time to get your head around and requires time to learn - but it's well documented and there are loads of code snippets out there for it. In someways it's a good thing, my only regret with the engine is that I don't have the time to learn it.

But yes, there are plenty of free game development methods out there, probably worth checking out and things like Dark GDK are great if you're interested in build games from scratch (I say scratch, but Dark GDK still cuts out some of the work from 'actually building from scratch') It might even be worth taking that route some University student XNA + C# (or DarkGDK and C++) to start with to learn how to make a game and then Torque to learn how to use an engine - of course that's a long development path and you probably would gain a lot of knowledge that's worthwhile.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant

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