Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Geek Culture / Microsoft announces the end of Windows

Author
Message
tha_rami
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Mar 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 01:24 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2008 01:25
Link
Yes, I thought it was a hoax. No, it appears credible. Although the title is a bit dramatized, it does come down to the following.

Rumours go that the end of the Windows operating system as we know it is in sight and that we might see it before the apocalypse in 2012. Those rumours claim that the launch date is set for 2010, after the launch of Windows Seven but preferably before the launch of Mac OS Snow Leopard.

In any case, the facts:
The new system is codenamed Midori, and will be a complete revamp of Redmonts OS efforts. Midori will be based on Microsofts Singularity project (link) and "is designed to run directly on native hardware (x86, x64 and ARM), be hosted on the Windows Hyper-V hypervisor, or even be hosted by a Windows process".

Although Midori will be a completely different OS, it does appears that Microsoft will aim to provide migration options and that they will provide support for Windows applications. The OS should be legacy-free, and well, a lot of technical babbling.

For those that are interested:
- Article 1
- Article 2


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
bitJericho
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 01:31
Link
Ugh, still supporting the x86? If we have to suffer a new OS, then we might as well use a better processor architecture


Hurray for teh logd!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Apr 2005
Location: The Fifth Plane of Oblivion
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 01:57
Link
Good. It's about time something like this happened, sounds like we won't have to use an inefficient x86 or Windows CE to have Microsoft on the move if this is to run on ARM hardware.

Awesomely fantastic. Now get it done, M$, and don't let this bloat. Like Vista did.

ASUSTek Eee PC 701 4G Black - Celeron M @630mHz - 512Mb RAM - 32Mb Shared Intel GMA 900 - Windows XP Home SP1 - No antivirus/firewall.
And it still boots quicker than any other laptop I've seen.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Agent Dink
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Mar 2004
Location:
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 02:00
Link
Interesting

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn Gorilda is lost!

Back to top
Profile PM
Lucifer
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2005
Location:
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 02:09
Link
Quote: "and don't let this bloat"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloat

oh i'll doubt it'll bloat as it seems it only affects dogs and cattle.

Your signature has not been erased by a mod... yet...
Back to top
Profile PM
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Apr 2005
Location: The Fifth Plane of Oblivion
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 02:17 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2008 02:17
Link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bloat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_bloat

Concerning cattle, Vista always was a right cow to use from my experience. My 630 runs XP very comfortably; my friend's 1900 struggles severely with Vista.

ASUSTek Eee PC 701 4G Black - Celeron M @630mHz - 512Mb RAM - 32Mb Shared Intel GMA 900 - Windows XP Home SP1 - No antivirus/firewall.
And it still boots quicker than any other laptop I've seen.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
bitJericho
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 02:18 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2008 02:18
Link
wtf is a 630 and a 1900?

[edit] Ah, I read your sig Well, my 286 won't run XP, so I win!


Hurray for teh logd!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Agent Dink
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Mar 2004
Location:
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 02:24
Link
My 2.8 dual core and 4gb memory have no problem with Vista




MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn Gorilda is lost!

Back to top
Profile PM
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Apr 2005
Location: The Fifth Plane of Oblivion
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 02:30 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2008 02:33
Link
Yes, well that's fairly high-end. If someone pays £350 for a laptop, quite recently, even if they were ripped off completely you'd expect it to run the included Vista competently. Which it doesn't.. It struggles with YouTube and if you try to open a second tab in Firefox or IE, it's best to go get a hot beverage in the meantime. Boot can take ten minutes. He has Kapersky or whatever it is. So bloat certainly is an issue on smaller portable systems. I, along with many others, want a newer OS to be very cross platform, very efficient and very flexible. Which this looks to be.

I don't want this to evolve into a Vista bash as much as the next guy, and even if it is a bit late for that now, I shall discuss it no more.

ASUSTek Eee PC 701 4G Black - Celeron M @630mHz - 512Mb RAM - 32Mb Shared Intel GMA 900 - Windows XP Home SP1 - No antivirus/firewall.
And it still boots quicker than any other laptop I've seen.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
bitJericho
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 02:34 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2008 02:36
Link
Quote: "Yes, well that's fairly high-end. If someone pays £350 for a laptop, quite recently, even if they were ripped off completely you'd expect it to run the included Vista competently. Which it doesn't.. It struggles with YouTube and if you try to open a second tab in Firefox or IE, it's best to go get a hot beverage in the meantime. Boot can take ten minutes. He has Kapersky or whatever it is. So bloat certainly is an issue on smaller portable systems. I, along with many others, want a newer OS to be very cross platform, very efficient and very flexible. Which this looks to be."


What are you talking about? I've run vista successfully on 800 mhz, 2gigs of ram, it didn't suffer near the problems you're talking about.

Unless he had 256mb of ram, he's got a broken computer.

Oh, are you talking about the ee pc? Dude, that's a computer with the stats of a midrange 2002 PC. It's a portable, it won't run modern OSes. Even any modern Linux OS not built just for it would choke on that.


Hurray for teh logd!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Apr 2005
Location: The Fifth Plane of Oblivion
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 02:44 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2008 02:46
Link
Just to clarify, by £350 laptop bought six months ago by a regretful friend I refer only to a Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo Pro. It's not exactly a gaming machine, and has only a single core 1.9gHz Celeron equipped with 512Mb of RAM. But that's still no excuse for the downright chore of using it. Something on the system is bloated out of control, and as it has been from day one, even before he had internet, I'm willing to bet it's something to do with the OS.

Let us leave it here.

ASUSTek Eee PC 701 4G Black - Celeron M @630mHz - 512Mb RAM - 32Mb Shared Intel GMA 900 - Windows XP Home SP1 - No antivirus/firewall.
And it still boots quicker than any other laptop I've seen.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Agent Dink
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Mar 2004
Location:
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 02:54
Link
Well, his computer doesn't meet all the minimum requirements for Vista... So that's why. Try putting XP on a system with 128 megs of ram. It will suffer.

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn Gorilda is lost!

Back to top
Profile PM
bitJericho
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 02:56 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2008 02:57
Link
His problem's solved with an extra 512 stick of ram though (20, 30 bucks, max) I had a 2.18ghz celeron with 512mb of ram when I upgraded to vista. It was too slow. I threw in another stick of 512 and have loved it ever since.


Hurray for teh logd!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Apr 2005
Location: The Fifth Plane of Oblivion
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 03:03
Link
I might advise more RAM, actually. Even if it would void the warranty, which is pretty much the only thing he got aside cheap plastics for £350. The ripoff merchants want £100 to install 2Gb of RAM. I am going to install 2Gb of RAM into the Eee soon, and then it will really fly.

ASUSTek Eee PC 701 4G Black - Celeron M @630mHz - 512Mb RAM - 32Mb Shared Intel GMA 900 - Windows XP Home SP1 - No antivirus/firewall.
And it still boots quicker than any other laptop I've seen.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
bitJericho
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 03:09
Link
Installing ram on a lappy is as easy as pi, in most cases. Usually on the bottom there's a panel you can take off that reveals the ram slots. Just stick em in as normal, and that's it.

As for getting the ram, most laptops use custom modules, I'd check newegg for the cheapest prices, if they don't have it, you'll have to look around.

I don't know why im going into details about this at this point, I'm sure you know all this >.<


Hurray for teh logd!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Apr 2005
Location: The Fifth Plane of Oblivion
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 03:15
Link
There is, but it's plastered in "WARRANTY VOID IF REMOVED" stickers. I can't help but feel sorry for him. Goodness knows who managed to convince him to buy a £350 Celeron/Via Chrome based system with only 60Gb of hard disk. The model number is V3515 if you're interested in seeing the extent of his misfortune.

ASUSTek Eee PC 701 4G Black - Celeron M @630mHz - 512Mb RAM - 32Mb Shared Intel GMA 900 - Windows XP Home SP1 - No antivirus/firewall.
And it still boots quicker than any other laptop I've seen.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
bitJericho
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 03:18
Link
Ohhh harsh >.<


Hurray for teh logd!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
RalphY
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Sep 2004
Location: 404 (UK)
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 04:19
Link
So anyway, to return to the subject at hand. I'm surprised no one has commented yet on the fact that it is a distributed OS.

Quote: "It’s also a project that underscores Steve Ballmer's obsession with cloud computing and "software plus services".

“The future is about having a platform in the cloud and delivering applications across PCs, phones, TVs, and other devices, at work and in the home,” He told staff in an internal memo last week. “It’s also about driving change in business models through advertising, subscriptions, and online transactions. Software plus services is a huge opportunity for us to deliver new value on the desktop and the server to all of our customers.”"


Oh boy! Sleep! That's when I'm a Viking! | Super Nintendo Chalmers!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Sid Sinister
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2005
Location:
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 07:34
Link
Quote: "“In order to efficiently distribute applications across nodes, Midori will introduce a higher-level application model that abstracts the details of physical machines and processors. The model will be consistent for both the distributed and local concurrency layers, and it is internally known as Asynchronous Promise Architecture,”"


HAL, what are you doing HAL? Open the hatch HAL. Please?

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
-Computer Animation Major @Baker.edu-
Back to top
Profile PM Email
flickenmaste
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd May 2008
Location:
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 07:53
Link
So what are they gonna move on to...windows is still my fav


[url=http://userbarmaker.com/][img]
Back to top
Profile PM
JoelJ
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Sep 2003
Location: UTAH
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 09:11
Link
I'm glad to hear this in some ways. Singularity was an awesome idea, and an extremely fast kernel. I've been hoping they'll build onto it.

But, it makes me a little nervous. As much as Linux has evolved in the last few years, it still isn't up to par. As much as some people hate it, or claim to hate it, I really like windows. yeah, it causes frustration, but linux has caused me more. I love vista, and I'll never look back to XP. Windows has developed a name that everyone knows and recognizes now. If MS moves away from that name, and I get the impression that they might do that (I didn't read everything in the articles, just a quick scan), then they could lose a lot of customers who just don't know what's going on. Found the sounds of it, this is a HUGE move for MS. If it fails, it'll hurt them quite badly. At least, that's my assumption. I could just not know enough yet.

With such a major overhaul of the system, this'll make things REALLY hard for backwards compatability. I mean... Look at all the problems vista has with drivers and a lot of software. I don't know about this... to me, sounds like an AWESOME idea, and I'm excited to see what happens. but overall, it sounds iffy.

[center]
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Robert F
User Banned
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 09:27
Link
Quote: "I love vista, and I'll never look back to XP."


Ahh you got the idea!


Back to top
Profile
David R
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2003
Location: 3.14
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 13:12
Link
Quote: "Try putting XP on a system with 128 megs of ram. It will suffer."


I ran XP on a 500Mhz AMD K6 with 96mb of RAM for about 2 years and it worked fine. Slow, but not intolerably so.


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Agent Dink
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Mar 2004
Location:
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 16:02
Link
I have a friend who has XP on a 300 mhz laptop with 64 megs of ram. It ran ok when it was JUST XP on there with a fresh install. After we put Firefox and a few things on there it's about had it as far usability goes. LOL. We actually have 256 megs of ram on order for her. Hopefully it will kickstart the computer a bit until she can afford a new one.

I had XP on an Athlon 1.3ghz and 256 megs or ram. That was most frustrating to me and it met the minimum requirements.

MISoft Studios - Silver-Dawn Gorilda is lost!

Back to top
Profile PM
bitJericho
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 16:06 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2008 16:07
Link
Quote: "I ran XP on a 500Mhz AMD K6 with 96mb of RAM for about 2 years and it worked fine. Slow, but not intolerably so."


Really? I had the exact same setup in college on one of my machines and it was intolerable. I could only run one program at a time or it got super slow, it really was bad. XP won't run well on anything less than 256mb, and vista won't run well on anything less than a gig.

Truly it's worth it though, vista's so much nicer.


Hurray for teh logd!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 16:37 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2008 16:39
Link
XP on a low system, fine, my old laptop was 600mhz and 128mb ram, as long as you didn't have internet security it ran fine. Using it for the internet was a nightmare, you need SP2 which slowed it down terribly, plus security which made it even more difficult - without SP2 you are more vulnerable and without security, you can neutralise threats, so XP, 128mb ram, internet, No-win situation - for movies and MSWord, then it's good.

"Experience never provides its judgments with true or strict universality; but only (through induction) with assumed and comparative universality." - Immanuel Kant
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Raven
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 18:43
Link
Windows isn't going anywhere, as long as there is a desktop PC there will no doubt be a Windows. What is changing however is the nature of it.

Windows as we've come to know an "love" is changing right now.
Vista will be the last of the legacy Windows OS. What exactly Microsoft have planned for MinWin (Singularity) well is anyones guess really, but you look at what was started with Windows Vista and what they wanted to origially achieve with it; how it's release was handled, etc... Vista itself was a big departure from Microsoft Windows traditions while the end product was nothing but legacy with a next-gen age shine.

After what has been shown from the Singularity Kernel, it's quite clear right now; any Windows built upon it will not be even close to the same beast. Hell you actually look at how Vista itself works and while it looks like an updated version of XP; reality behind the scenes is it's working extremely differently. Still it has those unbreakable ties to the legacy pipeline that's holding it back.

It's a bit like the Porsche cars really, until the Early-80s they were still all air-cooled engines positioned right at the end of the car. While during the 80s themselves they changed their looks, engine position and cooling. When this transformation was finally done and more classic 911 body returned, it was a truely different beast while retaining that classic look. They had evolved it to something that now their top model holds performance records, and is one of the most sought after vehicles.

The same is happening with Windows right now. We're in that "decade" of change and while what we have between in recognisable; it's still all just experiments leading to the next evolution that will push the band forward while retaining everything people love about it.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
JoelJ
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Sep 2003
Location: UTAH
Posted: 4th Aug 2008 02:06 Edited at: 4th Aug 2008 02:08
Link
I'm hoping they keep the windows name.

I love the sigularity project. It's fascinated me since I first hear about it. It's way fast. I saw a statistic that MS put out a while ago about how many CPU cycles it took to start a process... I'll see if I can't find it.

the stats I was thinking of are on page 31 of this PDF

And an OS written in C#... Now that's my style

and it's a microkernel... which I don't know a whole lot about, but I've heard that they work a lot better with hardware and plug-and-play features and stuff like that. That's what I've heard... I'll look into it and see if I'm right.

[center]
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Mr Z
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2007
Location:
Posted: 4th Aug 2008 23:28
Link
I can see good and bad things with this. Good, well, it is an interesting project. Bad, I will not be able to code C applications to it, if it is as Singurality built on .NET.

Quote: "and it's a microkernel... which I don't know a whole lot about, but I've heard that they work a lot better with hardware and plug-and-play features and stuff like that. That's what I've heard... I'll look into it and see if I'm right."


Well, in theory microkernels are more stable then monolithic kernels, but there is a huge difference between theory and practice. In practice, there exist OSs based on monolithic kernels that are extremely stable (Debian), and there exist microkernels that are very unstable (have heard Minix is an example of this, but have never used it, so it remains what I have heard). Implementation is more important then theory.

Windows itself uses a hybrid kernel, which is a crossing between monolithic kernels and microkernels.

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Anonymous User
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Feb 2008
Location:
Posted: 5th Aug 2008 00:19
Link
Quote: "Microsoft announces the end of Windows"


It's about time. Windows Vista is built on top of Xp, which is built on top of 2000, which is built on top of NT4. That adds a lot of bloat and useless depreciated technologies. This new operating system should be a lot leaner and faster to execute, even with the virtualization needed for backwards compatability.

???
Back to top
Profile PM Email
David R
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2003
Location: 3.14
Posted: 5th Aug 2008 00:26
Link
Quote: "Windows Vista is built on top of Xp"


No it isn't. It's built on 2k3 (which I believe was built roughly from the ground up)


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Raven
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 5th Aug 2008 02:11
Link
Quote: "It's about time. Windows Vista is built on top of Xp, which is built on top of 2000, which is built on top of NT4. That adds a lot of bloat and useless depreciated technologies. This new operating system should be a lot leaner and faster to execute, even with the virtualization needed for backwards compatability."


Quote: "No it isn't. It's built on 2k3 (which I believe was built roughly from the ground up)"


Neither are correct.
While it is true that Windows Vista was originally running on an expanded Windows XP Kernel (NT 5.3), this was only a place-holder while they developeda brand new Kernel from the ground up.

Windows Server 2003 (NT5.2) however was based off of Windows Server 2000 (NT 5.0) given it's more stable design it was a clear choice for business useage but did require the enhancements that Windows XP had introduced since 2000.

Windows 2000 was the Vista of it's day given it started it's life based upon an enhanced NT4 Kernel (NT 4.1); which later became what we know as Windows Millennium Edition. The only Windows to date that was a hybrid of two systems, although given it's support for 9x Virtual Drivers was quite lacking causing it to be extremely unstable when dealing with non-unicode. Meaning most who used it would be forced to upgrade to 2000, or remain with 98SE.

Until the Windows Vista NT 6.0 Kernel, Windows 2000 was still regarded even by Microsoft themselves as their most stable OS to date using it as the basis for both of their Xbox, and Xbox 360 consoles.

This fall however the Xbox 360 will recieve a complete OS overhaul including a new graphical interface and will be running on the NT 6.0 Kernel.

The next generation of Windows, is going to be running a completely new Kernel dubbed "MinWin" or Codename "Singularity"; it's the biggest departure Microsoft have made to their OS since they introduced Windows 3.0 to the world.

Microsoft introduced many new features with Windows Vista's NT6 Kernel that have paved the way for MinWin. With the likes of BIOS Integration, Kernel-Level CLR, etc..

The new MinWin Kernel is currently running what is essencially a basic CLR that runs at the BIOS-level; this then translates everything for the platform it's designed for. So the Kernel and OS itself can be completely CLR, with almost none of the usual overhead making the performance difference between Managed and Native code almost non-existant.

The Kernel itself is designed in an entirely new mannor many of these features can be seen in how Vista works; difference being while Vista still has to rely on old conventions for legacy reasons, MinWin doesn't. As the legacy support is now going to be done via built-in platform emulation.

Some aspects that are quite impressive are that the next generation x86 processors are going to support programmable pipelines to allow them to "natively" run CLR code.

If what seems to be planned comes together as expected, then with it's release in 2010; Singularity will be the computer evolution of both technology and software we were hoping 64-bit would finally bring.

Vista was difficult to get too excited about, after they said many things but never showed it running. Singularity is already viable and a working version has been displayed... the real question is actually "will they provide legacy support?" that said, I don't think they need to.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mr Z
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2007
Location:
Posted: 5th Aug 2008 02:52
Link
Quote: "The next generation of Windows, is going to be running a completely new Kernel dubbed "MinWin" or Codename "Singularity"; it's the biggest departure Microsoft have made to their OS since they introduced Windows 3.0 to the world."


Hmmmm, I was under the impression MinWin was not a new kernel, but rather the NT one stripped down to its bare bones. I read about it, and it was not really a new kernel. Just what is bellow without all unneccessary components.

Singurality is not MinWin either, it is a "new" kind of OS (not really "new", the idea has been around for some time, but for MS it is new), based on .NET.

That is at last how I have understood it.

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
David R
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2003
Location: 3.14
Posted: 5th Aug 2008 13:21 Edited at: 5th Aug 2008 13:21
Link
Quote: "While it is true that Windows Vista was originally running on an expanded Windows XP Kernel (NT 5.3), this was only a place-holder while they developeda brand new Kernel from the ground up."


It's not a brand new kernel. Vista is built on 2k3 (although technically it was 2k3 SP1, but still)

Quote: "These things, in conjunction with the fact that many of Microsoft's most skilled developers and engineers had been working on Windows Server 2003, led to the decision to "reset" development of Longhorn, building on the same code that would become Windows Server 2003 Service Pack 1, instead of the older Windows XP."



09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 5th Aug 2008 20:29
Link
Quote: "sounds like we won't have to use an inefficient x86"


I'd like an explanation for this. I've read over some architecture manuals for x86 recently, and I must say it's far from inefficient.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
Back to top
Profile PM
NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Apr 2005
Location: The Fifth Plane of Oblivion
Posted: 5th Aug 2008 20:47 Edited at: 5th Aug 2008 20:48
Link
Well, something in laptops isn't as efficient as something in PDA systems - although to be honest it's probably the motherboard being far more complex in a laptop than in a PDA. But still, there must be some difference, else how can a 400mHz ARM system last for ten hours on a 1000mAh battery whilst a 630mHz x86 system will last under three on a 4400mAh battery? That is a dramatic, huge difference. Not even the screen can justify that.

ASUSTek Eee PC 701 4G Black - Celeron M @630mHz - 512Mb RAM - 32Mb Shared Intel GMA 900 - Windows XP Home SP1 - No antivirus/firewall.
And it still boots quicker than any other laptop I've seen.
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 5th Aug 2008 22:41 Edited at: 5th Aug 2008 22:42
Link
Keep in mind that the ARM doesn't even have hardware division. There are many sacrifices for the battery life.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
Back to top
Profile PM
Jeremiah
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2006
Location:
Posted: 6th Aug 2008 03:18
Link
I am not using a shared computing system. It will not happen. I will move to the woods somewhere and mail letters to people. (Letters, ewww....)
Back to top
Profile PM
Anonymous User
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Feb 2008
Location:
Posted: 6th Aug 2008 11:50
Link
I would use cloud computing either, wouldn't like to know what other computers / servers are doing with my data.

???
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Quantum Fusion
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Aug 2008
Location: The Great White North
Posted: 6th Aug 2008 20:17
Link
Is this where Microsoft is attempting to create a internet-network-based OS that will basically pull up "your computer" no matter where you are? (I dont know if this is what you guys are talking about)


If so this is simply the worst idea ever thought of. Can you imagine the abuse that will go on with this OS implemented. You think stolen identity crimes are bad now, wait until that crappy OS comes into action. Not to mention hacking crimes, stolen data, stolen ideas.

Imagine you are starting out a new software company with new, and revolutionary ideas, and if you have this OS, MS can go into your files, snatch your idea and release it before you do..... and dont think that they wouldnt do that either.

If MS does release this type of OS, then they can pretty much kiss their user base goodbye. People will dump MS and switch to other OS's like Linux.

Personally I like the OS's the way they are now, my computer (its software and files) should only be on my computer, and not on some internet-network-based OS. And I'm pretty sure the large majority will feel the same way (especially if you run a company).
Back to top
Profile PM
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 7th Aug 2008 04:20
Link
I don't know why you guys are talking about cloud computers. Midori is simply an OS in managed code.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
Back to top
Profile PM
tha_rami
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Mar 2006
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 7th Aug 2008 04:52
Link
Quote: "Imagine you are starting out a new software company with new, and revolutionary ideas, and if you have this OS, MS can go into your files, snatch your idea and release it before you do..... and dont think that they wouldnt do that either."

Yeah, how about not being a frigging conspiracy boon? You don't honestly think MS would have the methods to do so? Of course not - any hacker could find that and reveal everything about everything.


A mod has been erased by your signature because it was larger than 600x120
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
jasonhtml
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Mar 2004
Location: OC, California, USA
Posted: 7th Aug 2008 05:37
Link
I bet they are just trying to get rid of the Windows name. Microsoft will probably still make OSs, just under a different name because Windows has so much bad reputation right now...

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mr Z
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Oct 2007
Location:
Posted: 7th Aug 2008 19:00
Link
About the web based OS thing:
Thing is that what MS is talking about, a web based OS, it is not a new idea. EyeOS is one example (have not tried it, so I cannot say if it is good or bad), it is an OS that you run from a web browser. And there exist at last 2 others that I know of.

Quote: "Imagine you are starting out a new software company with new, and revolutionary ideas, and if you have this OS, MS can go into your files, snatch your idea and release it before you do..... and dont think that they wouldnt do that either."


Do not trust them either. Hopefully, it will not be MS servers that hold everything, but rather that you can create an own server to hold your information, or choose to use existing servers, which could be hosted by anyone, including MS.

Quote: "Yeah, how about not being a frigging conspiracy boon? You don't honestly think MS would have the methods to do so? Of course not - any hacker could find that and reveal everything about everything."


Too much trust can be just as bad as too little.

There is no greater virtue, then the ability to face oneself.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
SageTech
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Dec 2004
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posted: 7th Aug 2008 19:37
Link
Honestly, the whole internet based OS idea is just an extension of the modern sentiment that you should be able to data any where. However, This is done with PDA's, cell phones, tablets, whatever. Perhaps instead of making the whole OS net based, Microsoft would just integrate a web server, allowing it to serve up pictures, videos, what not.

Yes, you can do this now, but perhaps more integrated within the Operating system, easy for the average user. Its not like it would be that hard, and IIRC during the minwin they had a web server running, perhaps it was for more then just interfacing?


The world is doomed...unless you >>>>>> Click Here <<<<<<
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Raven
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 7th Aug 2008 21:58
Link
Cloud Computing and Internet-Based are very different things.
All that the "Cloud Computing", is a wide-area computer networking system that isn't limited to only those on the same VPN.

For example Microsoft Mesh, it allows you to share files between multiple devices by sharing those files via the highest bandwidth device currently online. This often falls to sharing it and letting the Mesh Server itself handle the file syncing but it works quite nicely in that you can update files and not re-upload it's just resynced between all the devices it's shared with.

This is how they plan to get Singularity working. So the only aspect that needs to be installed is the main OS itself. The rest of it for example drivers can then be hosted via say ATI or NVIDIA... then when they're updated the system automatically senses this and will either download a local version of the updates or run via the network. Obviously networking it would end up with slower boot-times and potencially be unsafe but that's what they're working on fixing this summer. The security aspect.

Right now it provides a system similar to *nix with the "Run-Level" providing what system resources can be accessed. From what I understand they want to incorporate a similar system, but one that also does regular hash-checks against the Mesh shared files to make sure no tampering has occured (i.e. Virus/Hacking/etc.)

All of which in the background unlike Vista that requires user-level authentication.

For those who want to join in and see what is going on, checkout Channel9 (Microsofts News Network) or Singularity.com where they have a recently uploaded RDK build.

It looks like DOS right now, but you can always program your own "Windows-esque" interface. This is realistically an evolution of Operating Systems, not just taking a new concept or an old one and adding a Microsoft flare to it.

There have been similar things done before, but this truely is the first OS of it's kind; and is very likely to superceed Windows in the years to come. They do say this isn't Windows, and this isn't being done for any reason past research; but it Microsoft isn't a company to bleed money into such research without wishing to see a realistic business return.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
bitJericho
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 10th Aug 2008 05:33
Link
Quote: "Windows 2000 was the Vista of it's day given it started it's life based upon an enhanced NT4 Kernel (NT 4.1); which later became what we know as Windows Millennium Edition. The only Windows to date that was a hybrid of two systems, although given it's support for 9x Virtual Drivers was quite lacking causing it to be extremely unstable when dealing with non-unicode. Meaning most who used it would be forced to upgrade to 2000, or remain with 98SE."


I don't think ME was based on 2000. They share no similarities whatsoever. ME was just a rehash of 98se.

2000 is one of the best Windows OSes ever made. Beats XP by a long shot. Super fast, can run on just about anything made for 98, but ran like XP. Mmmmm, if only MS didn't abandon it with .net and all the new stuff that refuses to run on 2000.

I'd still use it if MS kept up with compatibility on it, but I suppose they wanted to sell xp, not 2000.


Hurray for teh logd!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Jeremiah
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2006
Location:
Posted: 10th Aug 2008 05:35
Link
The second they go to cloud computing or network computing, I am done.

I think it is time for people to start getting off the grid anyway.
Back to top
Profile PM
Mahoney
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 10th Aug 2008 05:36
Link
Quote: "I don't think ME was based on 2000. They share no similarities whatsoever. ME was just a rehash of 98se."


You, sir, are correct. ME was the last OS that MS released that was based on the 9x kernel. 2000 was NT 5.0. XP was NT 5.1. XP-64 was NT 5.2. Vista was NT 6.0. That's the basic rundown.

Windows Vista Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 1GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
Back to top
Profile PM
David R
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Sep 2003
Location: 3.14
Posted: 11th Aug 2008 18:42 Edited at: 11th Aug 2008 18:43
Link
Obviously 2k runs on the NT kernel, but that doesn't prevent it from having any links to ME - One similarity that ME and 2k do share is the UI - they are clearly related in terms of UI design.


09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-20 12:39:22
Your offset time is: 2024-11-20 12:39:22