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Geek Culture / A-Levels, qualifications and the game industry

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Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 14th Aug 2008 16:38
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Okay. Well, I got my AS-Level results today and everything seems to be going to plan. For those unfamiliar with the British system of A-Levels:

Lower 6th - ages 16-17 - You get AS-Levels
Upper 6th - ages 17-18 - You get A2-Levels

Then, a Gap Year or University or a job or whatever.

The marks from AS and A2 are combined to give you an A-Level. It is this grade which Universities look at.

Anyway, my 4 AS subjects are English, Maths, History and Computing. I want to do English at Uni and that all seems to be going to plan so far: I got AAAB, the B being in history but it was only a few marks short of an A and I can retake exams, so I don't think I need to worry about that.

However, the university I really want to get into is absolutely top-notch and requires AAA to get in. (Most people drop one of their AS subjects when they get to where I am now - ie. once they complete their AS levels.) To get those 3 As, I really need to drop one subject to concentrate on the others. Since I want to do English at uni, and the uni is fairly traditional, I'm going to continue studying English, Maths and History.

But, that means dropping Computing.

What I'm wondering is: is it possible to get into the games industry having not done a complete Computing A-Level, and having not done anything at all related to Computing at uni? My goal for the moment is to carry on with English as far as I possibly can (that's my "thing", utterly and irrevocably) but I'm also really interested in computing and, in particular games design. I would ideally like to get a job in the industry, since Literature doesn't pay many bills.

I'd also like to point out the hazards of gearing our education system towards specialising, leaving nobody able to have a passion for two things... But maybe that particular discussion belongs in another thread. Or, hey, maybe it doesn't. Whatever you guys think.

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BiggAdd
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Posted: 14th Aug 2008 18:47 Edited at: 14th Aug 2008 18:48
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I think your biggest problem is you are doing a degree in English and wanting to go into the gaming industry.

A levels are nothing compared to a degree.

I'm no expert in the matter, but I would have thought a developer would pick somebody with a degree in computer science over somebody with a degree in English.

If you have a passion for 2 things, go for the degree which will make you the most money and do the other thing in your spare time.

I love art (As some of you may have guessed) but I'm doing a degree in Aerospace Engineering. Simply because the engineering will pay the bills at the end of the day. But I love both the subjects. So I learn art in my spare time.

I don't need a degree in Engineering to know about the subject. However I do need a degree in order to work as a chartered Engineer.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 14th Aug 2008 19:24
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You should probably still be able to get a job as a QA to start and attempt to move on from there with an english major.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=73324&b=8
My RPG WIP, check it out
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Game maker wannabe
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Posted: 15th Aug 2008 01:48 Edited at: 15th Aug 2008 01:53
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Maybe you could enter a games industry as a screen writer. While taking in all you can about the other aspects of games. Then work you way up.

Sorry, thats all I could say.

Is this uni you speak of Cambridge or Oxford by any chance?

Btw, AAAB?! pretty good boyo!

<Insert Signature Here>
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Jeff Miller
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Posted: 15th Aug 2008 02:07 Edited at: 15th Aug 2008 02:08
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I think the games industry will continue to broaden its already multi-disciplinary nature, with plenty of room for artists, music composers, math gurus, programmers, and yes- English majors.

I have a Bachelors Cum Laude in English and a Doctor of Laws, yet spend quite a bit of time at my job programming, in some cases in DBPro! College should not just be a time of preparing for your present concept of what your post-college job will be, but intensifying your knowledge, thinking skills, and intellectual cravings at a time of your life which you may never have the opportunity to replay later on. Major in what interests you the most, and if English is it, go for it. You can pick up a second major or graduate degree later on.
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NeX the Fairly Fast Ferret
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Posted: 15th Aug 2008 02:18
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Companies want people who can use English well; after all, who wants another Resident Evil incident? (Master of unlocking, anyone?)

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Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 15th Aug 2008 18:26
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Thanks for the feedback guys!

@BiggAdd - what you say does make a lot of sense, but English really is the one subject I am utterly obsessed with; were I to do a Computer Science degree instead, I'd always feel as though I'd never scratched past the surface of literature. Of course, if I did a course in Computing afterwards then that would suit both.

@Hobgoblin Lord - I could. If it pays and there's a possibility of climbing the ladder, so to speak, then QA would make a lot of sense.

@Game maker wannabe, NeX and Jeff Miller - a career writing for games would be a dream come true, since that would combine both English and video games, plus I would have a chance to try and write games which rise above the stale old "kill the zombies" or "kill the nazis" or "kill the aliens" plotlines.
And, yes, the university in question is Cambridge - I didn't want to say it right off the bat since it sounds like boasting and I may not, of course, get in there after all.
Quote: "College should not just be a time of preparing for your present concept of what your post-college job will be, but intensifying your knowledge, thinking skills, and intellectual cravings at a time of your life which you may never have the opportunity to replay later on. Major in what interests you the most, and if English is it, go for it. You can pick up a second major or graduate degree later on."

My thoughts exactly: since I have a chance to do what I've always wanted to do (read 2 or 3 books a week and then join them all up, looking at thematic links and the authors' philosophical views) I've opted to do just that!

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PowerSoft
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Posted: 17th Aug 2008 10:00
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Hey.

I've just recieved my 4 A Levels and am pleased with what I got.
A - Maths
B - Business Studies
B - Further Maths
C - ICT

Some people got 4 A's, some got 3 but for me I'm pleased with that, and I managed to have a life at the same time C in ICT surprised me but what can I say, perhaps me and the course just didn't get on?

I'm now going to York University to take Computer Systems and Software Engineering (G461) MEng with a sandwich (placement I might add)

The way I see it EA/Google/Microsoft/A-Other-Company aren't going to give two hoots I got a C in ICT...or that I got an A in maths or 2 B's because the degree should speak for itself. That said it is wise to have them otherwise you won't get in!

Also remember to make yourself as rounded as possible. Some guys on here won't find it too hard as the caffine and cake stereotype fits like a glove but volunteer, play an instrument, do Duke of Edinburgh (Gold for me ) and paint a picture that:
a) your smart
b) you have a personailty
c) you want to go to that University (even if you don't!)
d) the University should want you
e) you're relaxed, calm, confident and just be yourself

But at the end of the day I echo what others have said whereas you may get a job as a journalist with a Computer Science degree would you get a job as a programmer with an English degree?

Best of luck

Regards,
Rich

The Innuendo's, 4 Piece Indie Rock Band
http://theinnuendos.tk:::http://myspace.com/theinnuendosrock
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Jeku
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Posted: 17th Aug 2008 10:14 Edited at: 17th Aug 2008 10:15
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Quote: "The way I see it EA/Google/Microsoft/A-Other-Company aren't going to give two hoots I got a C in ICT...or that I got an A in maths or 2 B's because the degree should speak for itself. That said it is wise to have them otherwise you won't get in!"


EA doesn't seem to care. Google, however, asks for University transcripts. Not sure about Microsoft.

Quote: "Also remember to make yourself as rounded as possible."


I don't believe it's necessary, and may be seen as a weakness. I see people with degrees in General Studies and wonder what kind of job they can have? If you want to be a programmer, focus on taking as many hardcore programming and computer science courses you can. If a game company wants to hire an SE, they will NOT care that you know a little bit about 10 computer languages. Better to be an expert in a single language like C/C++ than be an average Java, C++, VB, PHP, Assembler, C#, etc. programmer.

Also I don't see the point in filling up your schedule with fluff. If you're interested in art history, take the course (even better if you can use it toward your degree). Don't take it because you think it will get you brownie points--- it won't.


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David R
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Posted: 17th Aug 2008 15:05
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Quote: "I don't believe it's necessary, and may be seen as a weakness."


It might not be good for getting a job, but most of the top-notch higher education institutes look for "rounded people" for their courses. So it might help you get in a better course in a better university, get a better degree, and potentially increase your chances of getting a job (e.g. XYZ university degree vs. Oxford Comp Sci degree)


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PowerSoft
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Posted: 18th Aug 2008 09:21
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Exactly DavidR. Obviously at the end of the day it is all about who can "do-the-do" but in order to get yourself in that position it may be necessary to be rounded.

The Innuendo's, 4 Piece Indie Rock Band
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 18th Aug 2008 11:48 Edited at: 18th Aug 2008 11:49
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Note about Microsoft - randomly:
Quote: "Microsoft has often been described as having a developer-centric business culture. A great deal of time and money is spent each year on recruiting young university-trained software developers and on keeping them in the company. For example, while many software companies often place an entry-level software developer in a cubicle desk within a large office space filled with other cubicles, Microsoft assigns a private or semiprivate closed office to every developer or pair of developers. In addition, key decision makers at every level are either developers or former developers. In a sense, the software developers at Microsoft are considered the "stars" of the company in the same way that the sales staff at IBM are considered the "stars" of their company."

From wikipedia

IMO Microsoft sounds like a good choice for a job. Not sure what kind of jobs literature will give ya besides teaching literature (no offense) but I for one would prefer a job at Microsoft, lol.

EDIT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_interview

Cheers,

-naota

I'm not a dictator to those that do stuff for me by will. Only those who don't.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 18th Aug 2008 19:52 Edited at: 18th Aug 2008 21:03
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If you want to go into the game industry, then English isn't going to do much, usually a degree puts your foot in the door and you prove yourself by telling them what you can do and giving your experience, however English and game creation are separate.

So if that is your final aim, the games industry (probably worth thinking hard about it, as your next decision will decide your degree) an English degree at the top universities (assuming you mean somethng like Cambridge) opens up great job opportunities, so something English-based might be something you'd prefer as a career and have game-making as a hobby, or at least that was my descision at your stage.

But if you think an English degree suits you more than the games industry, then drop computing - I did 4 AS subjects (English Language, English Literature, philosophy and Psychology), now Philosopy ties with the two English subjects, psychology was relevant to English language more, but at the same time, dropping Psychology meant I could put more time into keeping my grades up and passing. (and to my misfortune the English department in our sixth-form school fell to pieces that year. )



However if the games industry is what you're aiming for, then research what universities need for that, go on their websites and look for game creation course - my university offers one, I'll dig it up when I return.

[edit]
Here is the page to a Games programming course - I have a couple of mates on it (Baggers, one of the people who used to visit these forums is doing the course at that uni), watch the videos and read what's needed but there are other places as well - click - I'm pretty sure Anglia Ruskin has one too (which is in Cambridge, though not a part of the Cambridge university that's so hard to get in to), I think I came across it in their prospectus - so have a look on their website or order the prospectus

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
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RalphY
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Posted: 18th Aug 2008 23:30
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I'm going to have to disagree with all the people that are saying an English degree won't help you get into the games industry. If you want to become a designer, writer, or I have seen even for level scripters, then an English degree can be extremely useful.

Take a look at job postings on the websites of a few game companies. I have been looking for a job in the games industry recently myself, and all of the positions I mentioned above usually require previous writing experience. So long as you continue to learn about the programming side of things in your free time, I see no reason why you couldn't get into the industry with an English degree. Basically as a designer your time is going to be spent writing design documents, not programming 3D engines in C++ so something like an English degree would be far more useful than Comp Sci. Obviously if you wanted to be a games programmer you would need Comp Sci though.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 19th Aug 2008 01:00
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If you put it in terms of game design, yes, I guess I jumped onto the conclusion he meant game creation instead of design. English would definitely be useful - having knowledge of both language and literature (I think being well read and having a critical eye which you gain from literature is helpful).

I think as long as they know you can use a computer to a decent level, but as a designer RalphY is right, as that's what you said in your original post, however, it doesn't hurt to actually email game companies to ask what they would require - drop emails etc. asking about what sort of qualifications or experience they'd require for such a job.

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
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Darth Kiwi
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Posted: 19th Aug 2008 02:35
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Thanks for all the feedback!

I think I'll still do English, since that really is my "passion" ( that sounds silly, but it's true). Both game creation and game design are of interest to me - I think design moreso, because I'm more into bringing ideas to life than appreciating the intricacies of how to do that with code (though there's something rather nice about elegant, functional code, hehe). If I have an English degree as well as making games for a hobby - perhaps also having done another course but in Comp Sci - then maybe that would put me in good stead.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 19th Aug 2008 04:02
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@RalphY
lol - I like your location.

Cheers,

-naota

I'm not a dictator to those that do stuff for me by will. Only those who don't.
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