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Geek Culture / Classified (the rapper).

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RalphY
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Location: 404 (UK)
Posted: 29th Aug 2008 01:45
Quote: "it just doesn't grab my attention. It needs more than that."

What about this one?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OqkI3oUDe1I&feature=related

Oh boy! Sleep! That's when I'm a Viking! | Super Nintendo Chalmers!
WildCat
User Banned
Posted: 29th Aug 2008 01:45
Its fine when its in a movie or something. Or the music video is like a movie. But when somebody is just sitting on stage playing a piano. Come on wth is so interesting about that?

darimc
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 01:45
Why would you quote me and then direct your comment at someone else? Doesn't that defeat the point of a quote?



The Nerd
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 01:48
Quote: "Why would you quote me and then direct your comment at someone else? Doesn't that defeat the point of a quote?"


Actually, I got some of the quotes confused, I thought WildCat had answered it, too

WildCat
User Banned
Posted: 29th Aug 2008 01:50
Quote: "What about this one?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OqkI3oUDe1I&feature=related"


It grabbed my attention, but not really in a good way.

Seppuku Arts
Moderator
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Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 29th Aug 2008 02:07 Edited at: 29th Aug 2008 02:08
[edit] just realised this went to page 3

I've followed this convo and have seen the thread go into the pits for no reason - people giving opinions on a rap track as asked - for those that listen to and like rap. Admittedly there's some rap I do like and don't mind.

I listened to the track myself and didn't think much of it musically, but it doesn't mean no one can like it, or that it is 'crap', we can argue that it's not very creative, but then I'd probably agree - doesn't mean to say it isn't something people like and enjoy listening to. Personally I don't like modern rap and have mixed views about it, but it doesn't mean it's crap music, or that you can't like it - it's just if you put 50 cent on, I'd probably leave the room.


However:


Quote: ", then I guess ALL heavy metal is the same. Whenever I hear a death metal, or heavy metal song, all I here is really loud guitar, drums and someone screaming meaningless emo lyrics into a microphone."


Only Emo has meaningless (though not all may be meaningless) Emo lyrics. Death or heavy metal are considered separate from Emo and I bet most metallers would cringe at the comparison as I just did. So I take it Iron Maiden (Heavy Metal) = At the Gates (Gothenburg Death Metal) - check out both on youtube (both are legends for these 2 types of metal), they're very different.

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
darimc
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Location: Canada
Posted: 29th Aug 2008 04:18
Okay, I am just mad because this is probably one of the most original rap songs ever made. I have never ever heard a song about the Maritimes.

Quote: "Only Emo has meaningless (though not all may be meaningless) Emo lyrics. Death or heavy metal are considered separate from Emo and I bet most metallers would cringe at the comparison as I just did. So I take it Iron Maiden (Heavy Metal) = At the Gates (Gothenburg Death Metal) - check out both on youtube (both are legends for these 2 types of metal), they're very different.
"
Sorry, I didn't mean emo, but I couldn't really find another word for it. Basically it's usually lyrics about death or being angry at the world, either way, I can't understand the yelling so it doesn't make much difference to me. But I am sure some poeple can't understand what rappers are saying, the more you listen to a type of music, the better you can here the way it is sung.



dark coder
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Location: Japan
Posted: 29th Aug 2008 09:03
Quote: "Its fine when its in a movie or something. Or the music video is like a movie. But when somebody is just sitting on stage playing a piano. Come on wth is so interesting about that?"


By saying this you're saying you know nothing about music, I too prefer songs with vocals but that doesn't mean if I were to compare a song with vocals and one without I'd instantly favour the one with vocals. Sure someone playing a piano isn't as easy to listen to as whatever you normally do, but that doesn't make it boring, it just means you're ignorant to the amount of skill and dedication it becomes to being that good. I'd rather listen to some of Frédéric Chopin's work than almost all modern music simply because almost all modern music is just recycled stuff that was done a decade ago, you just get some catchy(but ultimately crap) chorus and loop it a load of times, when the rest of the song is just dire, you can't really compare them.

Quote: "Okay, I am just mad because this is probably one of the most original rap songs ever made. I have never ever heard a song about the Maritimes."


Original? Hardly, just because it talks about something no-one, or few people before have rapped about before doesn't make it original. If you want original look at Michael Jackson, he brought so much new stuff to pop music and was good at it hence why he was/is so popular. As it stands, this 'Maritimes' song doesn't bring anything new or unheard of to the table, for instance it still has cliché slang terms and terrible grammar(in parts) which is all to common for rap music. Sure some poems use slang the emphasis a point or otherwise, but it just cheapens it if it's supposed to be a poem in this case. There are other cliché aspects to the lyrics too, such as talking about drugs, listing names of other rappers(I assume they are)"We got back burner, good night, alpha flight, Lock Down, Mic Boyd, first word, tro biz and hell town", so exactly which part of this song is unique?

Quote: "But I am sure some poeple can't understand what rappers are saying, the more you listen to a type of music, the better you can here the way it is sung."


So you're saying there's a deeper meaning to these songs? I highly doubt it, it just sounds like poorly written rhyming couplets about a random subject such as stereotypes in some locale. But oh well, if you like it... whatever.

Insert Name Here
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Location: Worcester, England
Posted: 29th Aug 2008 13:35 Edited at: 29th Aug 2008 13:47
EDIT: Never mind, missed the page.

Lee Bamber - Blame Beer
WildCat
User Banned
Posted: 29th Aug 2008 14:49
Quote: "By saying this you're saying you know nothing about music, I too prefer songs with vocals but that doesn't mean if I were to compare a song with vocals and one without I'd instantly favour the one with vocals. Sure someone playing a piano isn't as easy to listen to as whatever you normally do, but that doesn't make it boring, it just means you're ignorant to the amount of skill and dedication it becomes to being that good. I'd rather listen to some of Frédéric Chopin's work than almost all modern music simply because almost all modern music is just recycled stuff that was done a decade ago, you just get some catchy(but ultimately crap) chorus and loop it a load of times, when the rest of the song is just dire, you can't really compare them.
"


pffff. I know nothing about music because I dont agree with your taste. Dude could you stop owning the world and let somebody else have a chance. lol

dark coder
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 15:30
Quote: "pffff. I know nothing about music because I dont agree with your taste."


Where did I say this? Show me this horribly misquoted passage where I implied this? You can't, because I never did; learn to read posts. I actually don't listen to jazz or classical piano so I'm not sure what your point is, but just because it's not my first choice in music genre doesn't mean I instantly say it's worse than what I normally listen to, or takes less skill to make in any way. It just happens that I don't find such genres suitable to do work with, perhaps you could say 'simpler' music is easier to listen to, but I don't mean so simple that it took almost no skill to make and clearly shows.

Deathead
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 15:42
I'll have to agree, if a song has lyrics the lyrics need to have a good meaning and be good. Take iron maiden for example, the lyrics are good, and most tell a story, and if you go to any maiden fan and ask them to sing a chorus of a song they will know it by heart, same goes with SOAD, good music, oddly good lyrics which all have a good meaning.. Chic n stu, is about how advertisements are everywhere, BYOB, was about how presidents start off war and expect us to be killed by their choice. But Rap lyrics are always similar in story. But rap is more about the beat then the lyrics.


"Your greatest teacher is your harshest critic"-Butterfingers
jrowe
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 15:46 Edited at: 29th Aug 2008 15:55
If you look at music, there are five basic elements: Melody, Rhythm, Dynamics, Harmony and Timbre. Rap music tends to concentrate on only dynamics, timbre and rhythm (both in the form of instrumental beats and the metre of speech) and I think it is this emphasis that isolates a lot of music lovers.

I feel many consider the rap vocal not musical, just because it's not a harmonic and melodic instrument; if this were true you'd have to say the same about the percussionists of the world. Indeed, it's also a unique approach to music as it adds poetry to the mix, and I think it's a bit narrow to say that you should isolate lyrical and instrumental rhythm especially as they're both aural not written artforms. Poetry is meant to be read aloud, not in the head.

It's also absurd to lambaste rap for being "too repetitive" as rhythm often is repetitive. Besides we'd have to exclude whole musical genres from consideration if we were to go by this writ. Bye bye minimalism, most electronic music. Besides in many cases it's simply not true, you'd be dismissing the whole influence of production and turntable culture on the hip hop scene.

If you want to learn something try listening to these:

The importance of the Amen Brake
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac

A fusion of Dub Poetry/English traditional and hip-hop
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7bIvFg5fXUM

Edit: I should also point out that that song isn't very good. It has value as a bit of a tongue in cheek take on your local culture, but it's a bit too derivative and poppy for myself.

For Fathers and Sons who enjoy wholy spirits.
WildCat
User Banned
Posted: 29th Aug 2008 15:50
Quote: "Show me this horribly misquoted passage where I implied this?"


Sure thing right below..

Quote: "Sure someone playing a piano isn't as easy to listen to as whatever you normally do, but that doesn't make it boring"


I think it is boring, with that said we do have different tastes in music, and therefor you have said :

Quote: "By saying this you're saying you know nothing about music"


and that's not true. So how about this.

Quote: "catchy(but ultimately crap)"


By saying this you're saying you know nothing about music.

dark coder
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Location: Japan
Posted: 29th Aug 2008 16:24
But when you say boring you mean "To make weary by being dull, repetitive, or tedious: The movie bored us."(Dictionary.com) right? To say all music that lacks vocals is any one of these shows you know nothing about music or have not heard many instrumental songs. For instance jazz was mentioned earlier, I personally don't listen to it, but when I do I can often see it's far from repetitive(especially with improvisation), and usually fairly upbeat thus not dull. Plus with all the variations you can have in a track it's not really tedious so I wouldn't consider such music as a whole to be boring. I could probably apply this to most genres that usually don't have vocals. If you removed the vocals from a rap song then yes, it would be very boring.

Quote: "By saying this you're saying you know nothing about music."


How am I? Almost all pop music these days has a catchy chorus they play around 10 times that everyone has lopping in their head, but the song itself lacks any substance, thus as a whole the song is crap. Sure many songs play choruses a few times but when that's the whole song(i.e. the rest is rubbish) it's really clear the creator didn't really have any good ideas to make the song good; so I think this is justified.

WildCat
User Banned
Posted: 29th Aug 2008 16:57
Actually no I mean "So lacking in interest as to cause mental weariness"(Dictionary.com)

In this case: That Genre of music is so lacking in interest it causes mental weariness of me. In other words it bores the Heck out of me.

Quote: "it's really clear the creator didn't really have any good ideas to make the song good; so I think this is justified.
"


Again, I think the song is good you don't. I think songs with no lyrics suck you don't. Your not going to prove that the music you like is better. ITS AN OPINION!

darimc
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Location: Canada
Posted: 29th Aug 2008 17:57
Quote: "If you removed the vocals from a rap song then yes, it would be very boring."
As I have said about five times, RAP IS ABOUT THE LYRICS. It is essentially a poem read aloud with music. So if you think poems are boring, then I suppose it is, but I personally love poems so I love rap.



Alucard94
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden.
Posted: 29th Aug 2008 18:17
Quote: "poem"

No, not really, I could elaborate on that and go on a huge rant but I don't really want to get into this. They just tend to piss off more people than they educate.


Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 29th Aug 2008 18:42 Edited at: 29th Aug 2008 18:46
Quote: "Quote: "If you removed the vocals from a rap song then yes, it would be very boring."
As I have said about five times, RAP IS ABOUT THE LYRICS. "


To some extent it is about the music too - if the music isn't any good and fails to do the lyrics justice or even effectively help them convey, then the music hasn't succeeded. Just saying if the music doesn't work, then the song don't work - if rap was completely about the lyrics, then it may as well just be lyrics, especially for those who take no or little time over the music. Some of the music rap gives can be quite boring. This is an example of something where the music in the background works with the lyrics - though the author of the music calls it 'Slam Poetry', but it's along the same lines as rap:

Brian Yap Barry's/Pink Punk's 'Yapolitical' (Warning contains swearing and strong political themes)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJHWYK-KXYA


And this is what I think is being discussed - no doubt rap artists do great things with their lyrics, but I'm sure what people are saying is that prefer to have a musical background that works with the lyrics and doesn't bore. Obviously for you, all that is importants is the message being delivered, but it isn't the case for most. Poorly made music for some can ruin whatever their lyrics are saying - some lyrics might best be represented without the music.

You sir have the moral ambivalence of a mutated shrimp!
WildCat
User Banned
Posted: 29th Aug 2008 19:40
Quote: "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJHWYK-KXYA

"


I never want to watch that again.
Even know I like a little bit of rap, that was completely horrible!

darimc
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Location: Canada
Posted: 29th Aug 2008 19:42
Well, some rap has no music, it's called freestyle rap.



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