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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] Why does fpsc get a bad rap?

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Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
19
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Joined: 12th Sep 2005
Location: Nirvana
Posted: 28th Jun 2010 22:18 Edited at: 28th Jun 2010 23:14
Quote: "I hate to say it, but I'm becoming very cynical towards FPSC's future."

I find that hard to believe.
Not that you are getting cynical towards FPSC's future, but that you hate to say it.

If DBP is written in C++ and you can make your own commands via your DLLs or whatever then DBP can do anything that any other engine written in C++ can do, right?

And if FPxC is written in DBP then it too can do anything that any other engine written in C++ can do, right?

Lee did give us the opportunity to modify both the engine and the language didn't he?

There is nothing holding any of this back except our outlook on the future and the plans we make for it.

Quote: "TGC knows what they're doing."

I agree

Quote: "Why do these discussions keep coming up? Why do people insist on comparing FPSC to CryEngine, et al?"

Because people keep bringing it up and I get drawn into it.
I think they bring it up, and want to compare the two, since they are the first two FPS engines to incorporate X10 features.
You are right though, whatever reason they bring it up is not a good enough reason for me to respond, so I am going to make an effort not to in the future.
But I still fail to see how the word CRY is catchy or cool for naming anything. (I'm just saying they could have picked a better name / we all know their engine is awesome too)

Quote: "I have an issue with the way Crytek does things, though. They've said it themselves. They don't use optimizing techniques to make the game run faster. They do it on purpose because they don't want to degrade the "quality" of the end product.
Now... this makes me worried because... they DON'T use the typical optimizations, and they can still pull off such wonderful graphical effects, wonderful AI, and a stable engine (it runs at like... 12 FPS on high for today's GPUs, but that's what they've considered an acceptable compromise for quality)..... "

LOL yeah people aren't complaining about 12 fps???
I didn't play with it much on high after it overheated a new video card to the point of burning it up.
Yes, the Cry Engine has the graphical power to render top of the line video cards useless.

The reason they want the graphical "quality" more then the gameplay is because the graphics are what set them apart from others.
They want to show off new things at the shows so they can demand more money.
They are clearly in it for the money when you consider the cost of their license.
So, don't wait around for them to ever be within reach for anything other than a big studio anyway.

Wii on the other hand understands that graphics are only half of the spectrum, and that gameplay matters just as much.
They have proven that big money can be made without the high end graphics.

However, steering off in only one direction is like having the Yin without the Yang.
So, I doubt that either of them will stay around for the long haul without compromising their current strategies.
But what do I know? Not a lot, right? But then, I am not in it for the money, so it is only natural that I see things differently than they see it.
One thing I do know, is that FPxC is going to be around for a long time, and I am going to have fun with it as long as I can, because having fun is what matters most about gaming.

Quote: "I'll tell you what - the day FPSC has the capabilities of Cryengine will be the day it becomes UNUSABLE for 99% of the people here. You can't have all those features and capabilities AND keep it simple for kids and people with no programming skills. "

Wow
I like to think that people WITH programming skills would like to use it too.
I'm with you though, ease of use is where it's at for everyone, well except those who prefer doing things the hard way.
After all, that is all DBP does is make the 3d graphics easier to accomplish than C++ because the language is more english like (BASIC).
FPSC does the same thing for FPS's by making it easier to build 3D levels than trying to build your own engine from scratch.
It is all about ease of use from the bottom up.

   Conjured Entertainment

 WARNING: Intense Madness
CrescentMoon
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Posted: 28th Jun 2010 23:12
I actually find myself very cynical concerning the current FPSC stock engine. It's unstable, unreliable, crashes at the most inoppurtune moments, can't compile a game more than 4 levels at worst and 5 levels at best, and has the lowest frame rate and highest lag amount I have ever seen in a game who's core basis is C++.

I'm no programmer, but I've seen C++ at its best. Stable, reliable, powerful, and versatile.

Now that the rant's done, I have extremely high hopes for FPSC's future. With the the migration's features (and supposedly the stability that will come with them) FPSC should become 10,000x better. Once the migration is done, it's my hope that the FPSC team will focus solely on engine performance for their next update, which will remove most of my problems with the engine.

Rant and prayers aside:

If you are really serious about creating a high quality FPS game with puzzles, special features, inventory, etc. etc. etc...learn C++. In FPSC that much source modification and scripting would probably make the game lag like Doom3 on a Windows 95. (exaggeration noted)

If you just want to create an Indie-level game with fair graphics, story, and action. FPSC works.
If you work really really hard and put some effort into it, you may be able to increase the graphics and action (reanimating entities, upgrading graphics, etc. etc.) but as far as storyline goes, FPSC isn't going to produce much >>...yet.

[WIP] Paranorma Chapter 1, The Horror at Silent Inn
Level 1 - Suspended
Metal Devil123
16
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Location: Suomi, Finland
Posted: 28th Jun 2010 23:23
Quote: "but as far as storyline goes, FPSC isn't going to produce much >>...yet."

Why not? Isn't it the creators that creates the story? Sound zones and story zones and all that stuff, I think that it's very good.

Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Location: Nirvana
Posted: 28th Jun 2010 23:28 Edited at: 28th Jun 2010 23:32
Quote: "I have extremely high hopes for FPSC's future. With the the migration's features (and supposedly the stability that will come with them) FPSC should become 10,000x better. Once the migration is done, it's my hope that the FPSC team will focus solely on engine performance for their next update, which will remove most of my problems with the engine."

I may have to do what KeithC did, and leave the forum to get serious about my work.
I am not part of the "team", but I will modify v117 next year starting full time in March.
I will focus on optimization, since CryTek doesn't and that worries Plystire.
That should also help speed things up for you too if I can help at all.
I am not crazy about C++, but I like DBPro, so it should be fun.
I'll stil be in the forums, but in the DBP not FPxC.

   Conjured Entertainment

 WARNING: Intense Madness
CrescentMoon
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Posted: 29th Jun 2010 01:30
Quote: "Why not? Isn't it the creators that creates the story? Sound zones and story zones and all that stuff, I think that it's very good."


As far as FPSC stock goes, your story options without animation and modelling knowledge are limited to making some HUDS and sounds to go with them.

Otherwise you "could" create a movie for the game in Blender, Anim8or...w/e... I'm just saying that FPSC has very few decent cutscene commands.

I mean if they added a CameraZoom, Character Control, etc. into the scripts as well as giving the players their own animated model (like in multiplayer) you wouldn't need any animation knowledge to make a halfway decent cutscene. You could make it all in-engine.

[WIP] Paranorma Chapter 1, The Horror at Silent Inn
Level 1 - Suspended
Aaagreen
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Location: City 17
Posted: 29th Jun 2010 01:36
Who says you need a camera for cutscenes? Games like Half-Life 2 and Dead Space manage fine in expressing the entire story in-game.

I'd love to see things from your point of view but I can't get my head that far up my bum.
Hamburger
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Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posted: 29th Jun 2010 01:46 Edited at: 29th Jun 2010 01:47
I remember when I would make levels for tomb raider (with the level editor) and they had an option to place a flycamera. You would set a chain of these and order them in a sequence, and when lara steps into a trigger zone, then she would freeze and the camera would move around in the way you ordered the cameras. AND TOMB RAIDER 4 IS FROM WHAT LIKE 1999? You could probably pull something like that off in fpsc no doubt.

I believe that it would be really nice to have camera entities and you could adjust the roll. You could also adjust the angle of it by pointing it in a different direction via shift+rotate keys. And they would be in a sequence and triggered by a trigger zone. Then all you have to do is set up your scene and it's ready to go.

Think like the rail cams from horror mod, exept a bit more complicated than that.
CrescentMoon
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Posted: 29th Jun 2010 05:34
Quote: "I believe that it would be really nice to have camera entities and you could adjust the roll. You could also adjust the angle of it by pointing it in a different direction via shift+rotate keys. And they would be in a sequence and triggered by a trigger zone. Then all you have to do is set up your scene and it's ready to go."


What'd be really really cool would be a script command like

SwitchEntityView="Name of Entity"

along with better character commands (like MoveCharForward=x)

You could switch to the viewpoint of another entity, make it move around while your character moves around, etc.

That would make really really high end cutscenes.

[WIP] Paranorma Chapter 1, The Horror at Silent Inn
Level 1 - Suspended
thm120
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Posted: 29th Jun 2010 06:05
well in a way, you will feel more accomplished if you successfully build something from scratch, but that doesnt necesarily make FPSC bad or noobish,

im learning C++ right now, and i've found my self jumping up and down with excitement because i created a number guessing game, a text rpg, or a login system.. but i started with FPSC then dark GDK

so in a way FPSC can be your platform for releasing your imaginations with no limitations (if you decide to step it up a level)



Simhood publishing - Releasing your imaginations
Metal Devil123
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Location: Suomi, Finland
Posted: 29th Jun 2010 14:00
Quote: "Who says you need a camera for cutscenes? Games like Half-Life 2 and Dead Space manage fine in expressing the entire story in-game."

Yeah, and both of those are awesome!

But why wont you film for your storyzones yourself, if you don't wnat to use Anim8or or whatever?

Nbt
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Location: Behind you!!
Posted: 29th Jun 2010 14:06
WoW! this topic is still going, just not to sure where it's going to be honest

I keep seeing CryEngine graphics compared to FPSc over and over (amongst other AAA Engines).

Not to be too nasty here, but a lot of the media produced here would not look any better in CryEngine than it does now in FPSc. It's the same old story I see day in day out in regards to games making.
Many people still blame the tools for their lack of dedication

99% of people are looking for a big red button labelled "Make me a top selling game" and nothing more than that. Three primitives sat side by side with a stretched wood texture and a window slapped in the middle will still look like crap in CryEngine no matter how hard to scream at it.

Take a moment to think for a bit and remember the day EAI released his 1st weapons pack and how damn good they looked in FPSc and how everything else looked poor in comparison?
We all drooled at EAI's WIP characters and are still drooling, we were amazed at what Kravenwolf does with lighting matched with his excellent models and texures selection, which many asked "is this in FPSc? "

THEN!!! Bond1 released the Metro Pack and BOOM! we all sat up and took notice. I for one waning away from FPSc at that time and that pack from Bond1 added to what EAI and Kraven were able to produce with a little hard work gave me the impetus to get right back into FPSc

So I say every engine is only really as good as the work your prepared to put into it.

Yes FPSc does not have many of the things the million dollar engine/teams have, but then I fully believe we get way more than our monies worth from this baby and the wonderful people here who work darn hard making stuff at silly low prices.

Add that to the excellent coding force that gave us PB, Fenix, FPSC IP, Horror Mod, RPG Mod (and many more) it just shows that FPSc can always be more.

I have seen many jump on Unreal, Unity etc and are still producing the same rubbish media and game attempts and will never create a commercial game as they don't have the dedication. Their only output is come back to our little game making forums and tell us they are using another engine

Sorry for the rant, but it gets really boring after a while. So my advice is stop comparing AAA engines with a user friendly games making kit and maybe do as the above members and put some effort into your work.

Your signature has been erased by a mod. The sig needs to be 600 width maximum (x 120 height) for all of it.
Crazy Acorn
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Posted: 29th Jun 2010 19:02
Off Topic: These posts are the biggest ones I have seen in years...

- Gorlock
warzenz
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Posted: 29th Jun 2010 20:17
Quote: "Off Topic: These posts are the biggest ones I have seen in years...
"



I have created a monster haha but it got me to stick with fps creator so thanks everybody all the information you put was very helpful
warzenz
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Posted: 29th Jun 2010 20:20
o i forgot to ask to close this sorry so if a mod could lock it or close it that would be great i think everyone got there point across thank you!
michael x
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Posted: 29th Jun 2010 21:51 Edited at: 29th Jun 2010 21:55
I think there is nothing wrong with this game engine. it fun to learn and easy to get into. im working on fpscx10 now to show off what this engine can really do. im having lots of fun with the scripts and I also have some fpscx9 games line up. I plan to one day instead of coming out with a mod with new futures, plan to do a bugs fix under the source code. I have learn alot of work around and bugs fixes. but I will say this everything lee did with fpsx10 he should have done with fpscx9. but I also under why fpscx9 started out the way it did. back in those day not everyone had a strong computer with a super graphic card so it would have been wrong to tell people you need a super computer with 4gb of ram to run this engine. It was smart of lee to come out with a low performance game engine. so that anyone can run it on there computer. thank you Lee .B for making a great game engine. I much appreciate it. thank all the modelers for the 3d stuff. bond1 for the great shaders. lets not bash or compare this engine lets enjoy like way I do.

more than what meets the eye
SH4773R
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Posted: 29th Jun 2010 22:32
all the people who learned how to program are mad becase fpsc can make better games than they can quicker.

Who the hell is General Failure? And why is he trying to read my hard disk?

My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
Thraxas
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 30th Jun 2010 00:25
Quote: "if a mod could lock it or close it that would be great"


Your signature has been [mod edited] :-p

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