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Geek Culture / HL 1/2 Source Code Leak

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 01:01
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Sorry John - had to delete your post. No-one else post links to the source here either please (regardless of if you think they work or not).

Cheers,

Rich

The sky above the port was the colour of television, tuned to a dead channel.
Your brain's just like any other appliance: it works better if you plug it in...
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Rob K
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 01:32
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It is worth noting that none of the media is included, so the game will still be perfectly sellable. The only real problem that I see is the leak of the Havok physics code which is used in the Source engine.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 02:41
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Finally got the Havok 2.0 APi earlier today (had to fight nail and tooth for it) ... something now baffles me to why they chose it over Karma.

And again Rich i didn't say to DENY it... just not to say that it WAS Real - god doesn't anybody ever read properly.
Although sure there may be working versions, however I have honestly not seen any working proof - and yes i've heard that there is one on GoT with Havok Physics, but quite frankly that is BULL

wanna know why?
Because Valves SDK's are setup PER MACHINE, PER SAFE SOURCE USER.
Which means you'd require not only a Safe Source Account to access it, but you'd also require administrator access to gain access to the section of the HDD where the SDKs are kept ...

if we add to this that you have to activate Havok online to be able to use it, same with EAX 3.0 which was also used - you combine this with the fact that the shaders are material based and part of the media and not part of the source that was pilfered you'd have to figure out exactly howto use the material system, which quite frankly would take a good month for someone who understands exactly what is going on ... it took me 3weeks to explain Luma's Material System to the guy who developed the Cg Compiler, and he isn't exactly comfortable with it even now.

Sorry, but personally i think its a load of crap that anyone has full and working source - sure they have Steam, but from what a month ago ... since then its been updated 8times and if what the emails mentioned was right they knew when it was stolen and countermeasures can be put in.
Really all these people have is a glorified Half-Life engine, nothing more nothing less ... without the professional SDK's to compile the source it would've taken them one hell of a long time (alot longer than just a matter of 4weeks) to shift through the 14million lines of code, editing out all of the necessary data.

I really find everything so dubious, there are so many unanswered questions ... and until i have in my hands a working binary w/media to show that it is a working binary, personally i think the fact that anyone could have got anything working within 4weeks on thier own is a bunch of horsecrap.

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Ian T
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 07:19
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A skilled and dedicated coder, or team of 2 or 3-- who (is/are) also inspired by the fact that they're working with the HL2 source-- getting a fraction of a game's code running within 4 weeks... that seems pretty darn believable to me.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Ian T
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 07:23
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Edit-- sorry about that above, I didn't want anybody posting links . And just for the record, no, I'm not running off to find the source code... frankly it'd be nonsense to me anyways .

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 07:31
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perhaps, but what i've been hearing is that the havok physics are working ... yet there was no report that the SDK was stolen, no programmer keeps SDKs within the directory of thier projects - it makes for messy source and hard to seperate when you want to release it. (and considering HL2 has had 'MOD' as a keyfeature from day one)

however there is no chance of anyone getting havok unless your a $multmillion team/publisher.
believe me i've tried, the only way i got my hands on it was by asking the guys at work to let me have a go with it - even that was a bloody challenge and a half.

thats really what started more the bells ringing in my head, and honestly you've seen how quickly mod developers work.
personally i find it unbelieveable is all

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Rob K
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 14:12
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Quote: "Finally got the Havok 2.0 APi earlier today"


Sorry if I am being cynical, but its odd that they should go round giving the Havok SDK to 21-year-old uni students.


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las6
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 14:42
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and if He could get it, anyone could.
It's not like Raven is Soooo special.
What if they got the Havok from a different place and bundled it with the source, or something like that. And how come you supposedly know So much about Valve SDK's and the way they do things, eh?

And perhaps Valve could have gotten away easier by not admitting this so clearly. But thing is, Some of us like honesty. I really couldn't care less for that type of cold, business thinking.
Still, Valve is as much to be blamed as the hacker. They let it happen. It doesn't matter if the programs were designed specificly for this purpose, but they shouldn't have kept those comps, with the full source, online. That's just stupid, given that they were/are so obvious target. And they had signs.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 15:34
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I agree las, but it is easy to say that with hindsight. Looking back you can spot the hack attacks easily. When they happen, they're a bit more hidden. But of course once you realise, it's too late.

The sky above the port was the colour of television, tuned to a dead channel.
Your brain's just like any other appliance: it works better if you plug it in...
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Van B
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 15:51
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One question:

Why did the crackers release the source for free instead of selling it? - pretty sure someone would have bought it from him/them.

Seems like a lot of hassle and risk just to get a little kudos from the very few people who know who did it.

I think UW is right, this is industrial espionage, you don't go to all that trouble for free - no matter how much of a hardcore cracker you are.


Van-B

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Yian
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 16:08
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yes good question as I said many times I stil think there are things we're not being told about...eg.if a major company was behind the leak or even valve itself?(unlikely but not impossible)

Jeriko The Slyz,Yian The Craft,The Mechanist,The Lost One,Master Of Dots,Bambos O Bellos,Zolos O Kolos
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Rob K
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 16:46
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It appears that Half-Life 2 has been delayed until after Christmas


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Van B
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 16:51
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I thought they might do that .

Of course that means it might go toe-2-toe with Halo2 on XBox.


Van-B

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Rob K
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 17:00
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Poor Halo 2


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AM_
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 17:06
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I doubt the source was stolen by any corporation or that this is some other manifastation of industrial espionage. The hackers are, if I've understood things correctly, either members of the group myg0t or have close ties to one or more of their members (as it appears members of myg0t were the first to release the hl2 source to the public).
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Wiggett
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 17:08
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i was goin to say in reply to raven,
Quote: "however there is no chance of anyone getting havok unless your a $multmillion team/publisher"

but it seems to already have been said. Who knows if the hackers were or werent working for some larger gaming company, im sure some other game company, big or upcoming would have loved to get their hands on the sdk's and then edit them in their own way to make a new game ont eh market with stunning visuals to put them on the map. though they'd most likely wait a few months or so after hl2 is released for their product to be released as not to attract suspicion. (hehe the fools, now that i've told them my plan for the games market domination, they wont suspect me as the culprit.... wait, is this talk type thing still on?? oh crap!)



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haggisman
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 18:51
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I dont know whither this was mentioned before but it looks as if the half life 2 beta is also in the wild...

http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=106246&st=0

eep

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Ian T
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 19:29
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'Why did the crackers release the source for free instead of selling it?'

That's the #1 reason I think this is another company or group trying to damage Valve, and not some random hacker...

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Yian
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 21:29 Edited at: 7th Oct 2003 21:31
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unless it's valve itself
Edit:maybe the hackers were paid to release it for free?

Jeriko The Slyz,Yian The Craft,The Mechanist,The Lost One,Master Of Dots,Bambos O Bellos,Zolos O Kolos
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the_winch
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 21:33
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If you wanted to cause the maximum ammount of trouble and fireworks you would release the source to as many people as possible. If they had just sold it then it's possible it could have been kept quiet and not done nearly as much damage.
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Ian T
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 21:57
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What winch said. Thing is, just some ordinary hacker bloke trying to make a dishonest living would sell something like that... somebody who's out to damage Valve, not gain cash, would release it for free.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
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Neophyte
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 22:02
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I think everyone is forgetting that the hacker in question might just want the fame. Why else do people create viruses that spread all of the world damaging other peoples computers but not benifiting themseleves in any way?
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Oct 2003 22:35
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Quote: "Sorry if I am being cynical, but its odd that they should go round giving the Havok SDK to 21-year-old uni students."


i work full time, and i got it from work ... only used it technically don't have the SDK for personal use - Middleware aren't giving the SDK out to ANYONE at the moment, i've had a few phone conversations with with as a result because over the net was getting me back the same regurgitaded mail.
Even when i was using the companies email account as a representative...

(not that they know your age or status as it isn't one of those things they ask)
There are also enough differences between ipion that make it impossible to use that as well.

as i said, i find the whole thing extremely suspect

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