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Errant AI
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 07:24 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2011 08:23
@Soviet176- I've managed to get the map loading by assigning the AI scripts to the stock ones. So, it's some sort of combination of script and level design that causes conflict. Hockeykid looked up the code and thinks it could be related to aiusemelee so I will try to isolate and address the issue beginning tomorrow.

@jbfreeze- I don't currently plan to make the biped or max file available right now- A least not freely..until the pack has had its chance to do its thing for a while. You might be able to edit in fragmotion or similar in the meantime.

@That Guy John- ADW (asymmetric dual wield) is exclusively a feature of the PBUM mod.

@Wolf- let me know if you need any UV overlay templates. Can't wait to see what you come up with. All your other retex work has been superb so I'm looking foreward to seeing what you come up with!
Payam
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 15:43
Quote: "What others? "

Nothing
I just thought there are more

Quote: "They range between 3300 and 4000 tris on average."

And many thanks for your great job and your answering.

Have our guns was a mistake!!!

I am PaYaM
The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 15:53
One problem: I can literally push the charcters around, even with Isimmobile=Yes and Physicson=Off. Even with stock default scripts that doesn't change. I tried characters to be scripted to sit but that way they end up beside the chair and table.

The stock characters I tried for comparison, cannot be pushed around even with Isimmobile=No and Physison=Yes.

I am clueless.

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
Errant AI
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 15:57 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2011 16:01
@The Storyteller 01 this is because of DAI.

add...

:condition:freeze,aistop

That will immobilize them.

Make sure the chair is dynamic and using appear_nocollision.fpi



There probably are ways to use a static chair if need be but i'm not sure how DAI collision avoidance treats no-colision static objects.
Soviet176
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 15:59
@Errant

But you were able to see the problem correct? because regular darkAI or stock characters seem to work fine. But good glad we could narrow it all down

Putting fear back into sliced bread since 4th May 2010
KeithC
Senior Moderator
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 16:00
@ST: Maybe you could script them to push you back!

-Keith

Errant AI
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 16:04 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2011 16:15
@Soviet176 yes but if you have time start a new level and try to add detail until you get the crash.

I do not believe this is a script problem although the script triggers it. I believe it is a problem of the code but without isolating it better TGC won't be able to fix. I will work on my end to see if i can limit it to a condition or action in the aiusemelee routines although they are very similiar to stock DAI as I wrote both...

edit: also keep in mind that combat DAI doesnt perform well in tight CQB environments (they will try to run into walls more often if an anemy is on the other side). It;s best suites with rooms that have space to move and matrix lobby style rooms. You want to avoid single segment corridoors if you have multiple allies because the player can get pinned in.
The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 16:12
Thanks @EAI! I really appreciate it, how you are tireless answering our questions and requests

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
Errant AI
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 16:16 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2011 16:21
Oh... I'm plenty tired

Let me know if anything else pops up for you.

There was really very little time to do real-world beta testing because development relied so heavily on non-public 1.18 betas. With the help of the early adopters in the community I hope to get things shaped up and locked down pretty well by the end of the month and things should be smooth from there on out.

I also apologize to the MM board inhabitants for all the related threads which will likely be popping up over next week or so. I still plan a seperate thread for bug reporting but I know a lot of users won't see them and end up making new threads anyhow.
jbfreeze
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 16:18
thanks man I will use fragmotion
The Zoq2
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 16:26
Quote: "What is the ground like in the custom maps? I'm suspicious that DAI doesn't like being spawned on top of entities (like on a table; caused the same sort of crash upon loading the testgame) and possibly certian combinations of stars and waypoints in the scene could also be an issue. Do you get similar crashes with stock characters/stock DAI in your custom level?"


I think that may have been the ptoblem. I spawned them on cosmic prophet's nuke city segments. The editor symbol for them is an arrow and the characters couldn't move onto them. Since i replaced it i haven't had the problem any more

Srry about my english im from sweeden
Errant AI
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 16:46 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2011 16:47
@Zoq2OK- good.

@everyone I've started a dedicated bug reporting thread and the appear scripts and gunspec are in a patch arcive there. I will be adding more patches as we go. The thread has been stuck and tagged. !!! EAImedia "OFFICIAL" TF-341 / Model Pack 53 ***bug reporting and interim fix distribution thread*** !!!
Conjured Entertainment
AGK Developer
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 16:52
Thanks in advance for your quick support EAI.
I just ordered a few minutes ago and I am awaiting approval from TGC.
It is nice to know that any errors will be quickly addressed.
I hope everyone understands that it is common for a model pack of this size and complexity to have a bug or two.
I think your work here is great, so don't let these little things discourage you from making more characters.
I know you are well known for your expertise in weapons, but these characters look awesome and I hope we will be seeing more from you soon.

Thanks again,
CE

   Conjured Entertainment

 WARNING: Intense Madness
Cyborg ART
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 17:51
Just wanted to show a retetxure I made
Maybe this is the wrong place. But the picture got too cool to not show

A simple M90 swedish fielduniform (FU):


@Errant AI

Maybe a simplified .psd version of the textures could be a good future update. One layer with everything except the parts with camo and one layer with these parts, but without camo (only fabrics, if thats the way you did it).
Then it would be simple to throw in a custom camo between these layers, set the layer to multiply and then it would be done.


You have made an excellent modelpack, hopefully they will come to use soon.

Errant AI
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 18:02 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2011 18:38
Lookin good, man. How does it look with shaders turned on?

The .psds are about 250MB each in the simplified form. Yes, I use a paper-doll type system for the maps , so If I know the exact map needed I can supply a more-so simplified .psd in addition to UV guides.

@Conjured Entertainment Thanks for your words and understanding
Cyborg ART
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 19:00
I cant get the custom textures to work with shaders, I think I have to edit the tetxurepath inside the model. And when trying to open the .x file in notepad, notepad crashes due to the massiveness of the file

Will take a look into this someday.

250mb for all .psds or one?
For the moment I am really in no need to retexture them properly, the M90 was just something I wanted to do since I saw the pack. I almost bought the pack just to see the guys in some swedish camo

Once again, a really good work!

Errant AI
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 19:14 Edited at: 2nd Feb 2011 19:16
Quote: "I cant get the custom textures to work with shaders, I think I have to edit the tetxurepath inside the model. And when trying to open the .x file in notepad, notepad crashes due to the massiveness of the file "


Youre doing it wrong

The exported texture is simply TF341 with no underscore extension.

1. Duplicate the FPE and .BMP of the character you're mapping. You can even put in its own entitybank folder since the maps and meshes are in texturebank/meshbank (done deliberately for this reason).

2. Save your .dds diffuse map as TF341_mesh ID number here_your texture set number id here_D or D2.dds and put it in the texturebank.

3. Open the .FPE and edit only the diffuse "textured=x" line to point to your new texture.

...that should be all you need to do

Quote: "250mb for all .psds or one"


For one... I don't mess around lol.. and those are my optimized .psds. Just have to keep in mind that each kind of pouch in each color is its own layer and some layers cant be collapsed because of layer effects or layer ordering. I also have all three color sets in shared .psd for each main mesh type and also includes sub variations. So its a lot of layers which add up quickly with a 1024 map.

Just for fun, send me the the pattern you're using and the model ID youre using it on...
Cyborg ART
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 19:52
Got it to work



Quote: "Quote: "250mb for all .psds or one"

For one... I don't mess around lol.. and those are my optimized .psds. Just have to keep in mind that each kind of pouch in each color is its own layer and some layers cant be collapsed because of layer effects or layer ordering. I also have all three color sets in shared .psd for each main mesh type and also includes sub variations. So its a lot of layers which add up quickly with a 1024 map."


Thats quite big!

Quote: "Just for fun, send me the the pattern you're using and the model ID youre using it on... "


E-mail sent with the pattern, if you still want it

The Zoq2
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 20:58
Those look awsome!

Srry about my english im from sweeden
Scene Commander
Support Manager
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 21:13
@EAI,

Just wanted to say, that this pack is most definitely on my to buy list. Excellent work. I'm just waiting on some V118 fixes before I buy.

http://jimjamsgames.yolasite.com
loler
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 21:17
wow i have too say this is so much awesome content for just a few bucks thank you for this pack

its not a bug its a feature
Errant AI
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2011 21:25
Quote: "Got it to work "


Awesome
Looks good too. Once you had the instructions it was a simple process? Did you feel the UV layout was such that it was relatively easy to change the texture?

@Scene Commander looking foreward to your purchase- take your time

This pack is currently in first place on the "top 10 this week" list... so I'm a happy camper.
Nomad Soul
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2011 01:04
@Errant AI

Is the UV layout included in the model pack?

The models look to detailed for a generic re texture because of all the pouches and such but I guess a talented artist could do it.

Cor
AGK Developer
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2011 01:09
Great models I got them working in dbpro now
Errant AI
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2011 12:26
@Cor - Nice! That's good to hear. I hope they weren't much trouble.

@Nomad Soul-

Quote: "Is the UV layout included in the model pack?"


Not currently but I will get them added to the update. In the interim if someone wants a UV template all they need to do is let me know which mesh they need one for.

Quote: "The models look to detailed for a generic re texture because of all the pouches and such but I guess a talented artist could do it."


Most of the detail is in the normalmap which should go a long ways if someone were to just haphazardly slap some overlay onto the model but yes... craft going in always equal quality coming out.
EGG HEAD OF DOOM
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2011 17:31
Just got my copy. downloading now. thanks EAI for putting so much time into this, and unfortunately your still putting more time into it.

That Guy John
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2011 20:11
Errant, (or what ever your real name is)

I want to thank you for this pack, you have gotten many thanks for this pack but I hope you really understand what you have done, in my mind anyways.

You have given new life to FPSC with the quality of work you just put out. Displaying the capabilities of this engine and hopefully help to put an end to the bad wrap FPSC seems to have across different forums outside of TGC.

Together with your display of what is possible and the rapid updates coming from Lee and the other developers involved, for me personally, I have been re-inspired to keep using FPSC and take it just that much more seriously.

I know you put a lot of hard work into this and I hope you were able to develop your own efficient work flow to make this continue to happen.

Again, Thank You.

Okay, enough mushy mush.. I think I have made my point and I hope this post helps to inspire you to keep doing what you are doing.
EGG HEAD OF DOOM
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2011 20:31
finished downloading and installing, and...well...its absolutely fun to play now. i mean there are actual tactics that need to be used when facing off the enemy. Me and my partner will be developing our new game with these characters in mind (we'll do a few modifications though). Thanks so much, and anyone who uses FPSC NEEDS this pack.

Cor
AGK Developer
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2011 22:54
Quote: "Nice! That's good to hear. I hope they weren't much trouble."

nah, it was real easy it took me about a half hour to learn how to attach the gun to the hand but thats because im picky and had never done much with limbs before
The Storyteller 01
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 00:18 Edited at: 4th Feb 2011 00:21
Dear@EAI, i still have problems with pushing my soldiers around.

I used your :condition:freeze,aistop in these 2 ways, both of which don't work:





I must do something wrong still...

But sitting works perfectly now - surprisingly with a static chair that simply uses appear_nocollision.fpi as the appear script

PS: If I simply put a transparent layer over the equipment parts of the d2 textures, will I then get an unequipped character (like some of the women in the pack) or is it a little more complicated than that?

In case you find my grammar and spelling weird ---> native German speaker ^^
Errant AI
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 03:48 Edited at: 4th Feb 2011 03:54
@That Guy John - Thanks, man. Your kind words are much-ly appreciated

@EGG HEAD OF DOOM - That's an AWESOME endorsement and the kind of reaction I hope some other devs have as well.

@Cor - That's great! Please come back sometime and share some screens of your game. It's fun seeing the media jailbroken from FPSC.

@The Storyteller 01 - what appear script are you using? You should be using plain-Jane "appear1.fpi" with the script you've posted. You can see in the vid she can't be pushed around (using the first script)... am I misunderstanding the problem?



Quote: "If I simply put a transparent layer over the equipment parts of the d2 textures, will I then get an unequipped character (like some of the women in the pack) or is it a little more complicated than that?"

No. If you alpha out the pouches she will look like Swiss cheese because the mesh is single-skin. The pouches aren't simply stuck on. This is mostly for compatibility with stenciled shadows and the like. The UV's for the heads should match up though between the armored and unarmored girls if you wanted to do a texture merge.
Cross Hair Games
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 03:55
@ Errant AI
Nice loop, how'd you get it to work? Is it possible to make someone do that, then when they stand up, follow a way-point that does a little path and leads back to the computer and they sit down again?

I know Ive asked this before but I cant find where.

General Jackson
User Banned
Posted: 4th Feb 2011 03:56
Will buy in about 2 weeks.
Great work EAI, I hope you get plenty of sales

I am Southern, and I love Grits. Feel free to ask me what grits are if your a yankee
Errant AI
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 04:51 Edited at: 4th Feb 2011 04:51
@GJ - Nice Thanks... sales are good now. Just hope it will have some longevity but only time will tell.

@Cross Hair Games - that's just running The Storyteller 01's script from the post above the video. Yes, it's likely possible but probably not with dark AI (though DAI can be suspended in script). In the past I've been able to have them stand up, get in a fistfight then return and sit down using custom marker entities and settargetname scripting to set the orientation before sitting down but that was the other sitting animation without keyboard anims. It would complicate things a bit with the desk right there but it might be do-able.
Cross Hair Games
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 05:44
Quote: "that's just running The Storyteller 01's script from the post above the video."

Ok thanks!
Would doing something like making the character do the sit animation and set etimer (or what ever it is) and then specify a time, the the stand animation the something like setwaypoint, follow waypoint, the when the get back around to the end get them to activate it all over using a trigger zone?
That's a very random and jotted down thought. And I have tons of little ideas to make things possible in FPSC (I once thought of a way to create barricades that can be torn down and repaired pike in Nazi Zombie, but to do it without a mod. But then I forgot the idea an how I was going to do it) I have ideas like that all the time but I was forget to write them down and ten forget about how I was going to do them .
Anyways, would that work? It's a very unspecified thought but you got the idea right?

Errant AI
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 09:51
@Cross Hair Games -
What you've outlined should be very do-able but you'll have to evolve past the point of seeing those ideas outlined in vagueries if you want to achieve them on your own.
Not to be critical but everybody has awesome ideas. The problem is they'll never get far if they don't learn to use the tools at their disposal. When you've gained a better grasp of the FPI language you'll be able to better know what is and isn't possible.
The devil is in the details when it comes down to it.
Ikey
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 11:29 Edited at: 4th Feb 2011 11:35
I NOW HAVE THE WORK OF ART!

Seriously, though, their amazing. One little question...
What happened to team 3? On the folders it installs them as:

Ally (Team 1)
Enemy (Team 2)
Friendly (Team 4)

Obviously, this isn't a real bug, but thought I'd point it out.

I don't get what it means by friendly, however...
I mean, what is the difference between friendly and ally?
They both would kill enemy, and not you, correct?

I must say, the enemy team are the coolest looking...
May edit it so your team are the enemy team textures, and vice versa. Their just TOO cool.


Errant AI
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 12:03
@Ikey- Thanks

Quote: "What happened to team 3?"


Team 3 is reserved for neutral and teams 1,2,4,5 will not attack team 3. There's no directory for it because all you need to do is change the appear script to use the team3 one in the editor and they become team 3. All the teams can be changed like this from the editor. I've simply defaulted the tan and green texture sets to friendly because they resemble my country's military whereas the black set is nondescript. (But yeah, I think they look cool too.)

There is also a 341/appear script for team6 which is a "zombie" team that will attack all other teams and all other teams will attack them. This makes for situations where your team (team1) are fighting your/their enemy (team2) but if team6 comes along they will both (teams 1 and 2)fight the common threat together and then when the threat is gone go back to fighting each other.

Quote: "I don't get what it means by friendly, however...
I mean, what is the difference between friendly and ally?
They both would kill enemy, and not you, correct?"


The difference is that team1 is the players actual team so they will follow the player around once they are found in the map unless the player gets too far away then they will go back to doing their own thing unless the player comes back. Team2 will actively assist Team1 when the Team1 calls for backup and yes they fight the same enemy but they will not follow the player around.

Team5 is reserved as an ally of team 2 for script pros who want to add an additional layer of depth to the enemy ranks. For the most part team5 can be ignored. It's just that it's been pre-set in the appear scripts is all.

Does that all make sense?
Lewis
VBOTB Developer '10
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 12:33
Quote: "The difference is that team1 is the players actual team so they will follow the player around once they are found in the map unless the player gets too far away then they will go back to doing their own thing unless the player comes back. Team2 will actively assist Team1 when the Team1 calls for backup and yes they fight the same enemy but they will not follow the player around.

Team5 is reserved as an ally of team 2 for script pros who want to add an additional layer of depth to the enemy ranks. For the most part team5 can be ignored. It's just that it's been pre-set in the appear scripts is all.

Does that all make sense? "


Kind of like having a group of marines, and your very own task force that follows you around. The marines arent your own, but they're still good guys.

Ikey
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 12:37
Man, that's some complicated, but cool stuff. I cannot believe the price you gave this for!

Thanks for the help. xD


Cross Hair Games
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 14:24
Quote: "What you've outlined should be very do-able"

Okay, thank you! Yes, my understanding of FPI is very vague at the moment, and I am trying to learn it's Dark AI capabilities. Like I can read and understand scripts, weighting complex ones is the problem for me ATM. I agree that everyone has idea's. Especially on these forums we have some great people (hint hint, you included Errant )
I am purchasing this and 5 other model packs in about one to two weeks when I get my paycheck. Now I'll have all your official model packs
The ones you did are MP's 9,10, and 53 right?

Errant AI
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 14:29
Quote: "The ones you did are MP's 9,10, and 53 right?"


Yep. And you should get a nice discount buying 5 packs at once.
Cross Hair Games
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 14:37
Oh cool, I already own mp 9, so I'm buying 10 and 53.
Woops I said I'm buying five, I ment six and it's origanaly like 140$ but now with TGC's bundle deals it's 97.59$

spaceside
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 15:54
Quote: "I have a dream that one day FPSC become so powerful that it can compete with commercial engines and say '****' to them.

I have a dream that one day we can sell our games without fear of being ridiculed.


Wait, something tells me that this dream becomes reality, gradually."


i dont think so...

engine and graphics are one thing

have the imagination of creating a FULL GAME( i mean a least 8 hours of gameplay) is nearly impossible alone....

in space.Nobody will hear your scream.
The Zoq2
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 19:09
If you work on a game for a looong time it's possible to make an 8hr game

Srry about my english im from sweeden
Errant AI
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 23:33 Edited at: 4th Feb 2011 23:34
The key to getting those long hours of gameplay is having the player impede their own progress with optional distractions such as the ability to customize or manage something and in providing an entertaining world. That's where clever game design comes into play. When the player has nothing to think about and gameplay is reduced to the core progression requirements most games are lucky to last an hour.

http://speeddemosarchive.com/gamelist/PC.html
Wolf
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Posted: 4th Feb 2011 23:37
Quote: "
have the imagination of creating a FULL GAME( i mean a least 8 hours of gameplay) is nearly impossible alone...."


Wrong wrong wrong wrooong

wrooong wrong wrong wrong.

Wrooong

Wrooong

You are wrong!



-Wolf

God Helps the Beast in Me!
RickV
TGC Development Director
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Posted: 5th Feb 2011 11:29
So what have people made with this new pack so far? Any screen shots or videos to show? TGC would love to showcase your efforts on our official Facebook page.

Rick

Financial Director
TGC Team
Metal Devil123
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Posted: 5th Feb 2011 20:03
Just ordered! Waiting for it to come and you'll definetly see a test from me!!! I'm just that dumb to always order these on the weekends... well, I'll have something to wait for! Then again, I won't be able to sleep at night...

Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 6th Feb 2011 14:23 Edited at: 6th Feb 2011 14:24
Quote: "So what have people made with this new pack so far? Any screen shots or videos to show? TGC would love to showcase your efforts on our official Facebook page."

I am just now getting the chance to download this badboy. (didn't have time the other day for a download this big)
I should have a video later this week.
Should we email them to you Rick? (today is Sunday, so I know I have to wait until tomorrow for an answer)

   Conjured Entertainment

 WARNING: Intense Madness

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