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Geek Culture / Longhorn details

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DMXtra
22
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Location: United States
Posted: 30th Oct 2003 23:59
Quote: "
Looks to me like the rats are starting to leave....
"Other changes include a more simplified data bus and a Linux-based operating system, as opposed to Windows. “Evidence shows that Linux is more stable. We are moving in general to where the (US) Army is going, to Linux-based OS,� "
"


The rats as you call them arn't jumping ship, they are trying to make sure they are on a OS that not everyone uses.

Here is a clue for you, If the military uses the most used OS in the world, it can be hacked easily no matter what OS it is, it still can have security issues.

So in reality, they shouldn't even be using Linux, they should be using their own built OS internally. However, Linux is used much less than Windows so it should be more secure.

Linux has a lot of security issues as well, but you never hear about them because Linux isn't used as much and thus isn't on top.

Linux has a lot of issues because not everything is from one group of people, so you have different software developed by tons of people all around the globe, so there are bound to be security problems, yes even in root.

As linux tries to take on Windows for Desktop, there will be even more security issues because easy to use equals security issues.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
DMXtra
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Posted: 31st Oct 2003 00:07
Quote: "
'As for crashing XP - no I haven't yet - no blue screens.'

That's very unusual . I assume your system has bucketloads of RAM for Windows to waste.
"


Not unusual at all, I have 10 XP machines and one Windows 2003 Server machine and none have crashed to any bluescreen at work or at home.

Stop comparing that piece of crap Windows 95/98 to Linsux.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
DMXtra
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Posted: 31st Oct 2003 00:15
Quote: "
Linux = For power/experienced users
"


So what does this mean exactly? I can compile the OS to see my name on bootup?

I am a power user that has used Unix since 1994 and to be honest its not all that its cracked up to be.

Today at work for example. A guy that I am working with is trying to upload a 2.5 gigabyte movie to Akamai which runs their servers on Linux. Guess what? They can't even store the file as its too big. Now that blows, sure sounds progressive to me...

Because Linux is based on a 30 year old operating system, it has some of the same flaws.

You can keep your VI, PICO, EMACS and all that other crappy software and anything good in Linux like GIMP is already on Windows anyway, so who gives a crap.

Longhorn sounds like its really going to rock, and I look forward to going forward instead of going back.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
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Location: At home
Posted: 31st Oct 2003 00:16
Quote: "That's very unusual . I assume your system has bucketloads of RAM for Windows to waste"

One machine has 512Mb of RAM, the other two have 1Gb.

As mentioned before, 95/98/ME/NT are completely inferior to 2000 and XP.


Avatar & Logo by Indi. Insert witty comment here...
Ian T
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Posted: 31st Oct 2003 03:39
'Stop comparing that piece of crap Windows 95/98 to Linsux.'

I'm ignoring your (3 posts, what the heck is that) completely random 'arguments' and just commenting on this-- who, exactly, gave you the right to enforce preventing an argument on the superiority of operating systems? Last I checked you weren't a moderator.

'One machine has 512Mb of RAM, the other two have 1Gb.'

I thought it was something like that . Most of the problems XP has stem from lower RAM systems (mine has 384 for example), which is by no means a rare or strange thing, especially considering the average system RAM when XP was actually released was probaly around 256.

'As mentioned before, 95/98/ME/NT are completely inferior to 2000 and XP.'

Agreed, but 2000 and XP are, as far as I'm concerned, still inferior to most decent builds of Linux (Red Hat and SuSE to name a few).

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

A very nice %it, indeed.
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 31st Oct 2003 05:24
my current machine is running 128mb 100mhz sdram... apart from some operations being a tad slow, suchas starting a memory intensive task like 3D Studio Max i've had no problems with XP.
i've never seen a BSOD during my entire time using XP, the only errors i've caused are memory related and oftenly due to programming.

apart from XP being faster with more ram, i've never really had a problem with it.

Quote: "'As mentioned before, 95/98/ME/NT are completely inferior to 2000 and XP.'
Agreed, but 2000 and XP are, as far as I'm concerned, still inferior to most decent builds of Linux (Red Hat and SuSE to name a few)."

both are opinions really, personally although not quite as fully featured that are times I do prefer Windows Millennium Edition to XP ... but its only because I prefer the Win9x admin systems as i know them far better. Infact I barely had any crashed on that OS either, but i've never receieved the BSOD on XP ... NEVER.
I've received a Blue Screen, but it appears that its different from everyone elses because mine was always a screen that noted the access violation in incompatible drivers then it rebooted without warning. Later found out it was because one of the ramchips i was using was buggered up, as XP doesn't use memory on demand but instead pools your entire system resources this is why the problem arrose so blatently.

Since I took it out about 2months ago i've not had a single problem with XP... NONE at all.

Quote: "'Stop comparing that piece of crap Windows 95/98 to Linsux.'
I'm ignoring your (3 posts, what the heck is that) completely random 'arguments' and just commenting on this-- who, exactly, gave you the right to enforce preventing an argument on the superiority of operating systems? Last I checked you weren't a moderator."

no one... bar he has a point though. Windows XP is the currently windows that Linux must actually become superior to.
It has to beat it in several areas,
Networking, Security, User Interface, Internet Ease, Updating Ease, Compatibility.

Windows offers to the table alot of things that to most Linux users is a pipedream.
Automatic Secure Networking, within XP it is literally a case of clicking a button or two to setup a full working network and even tieing it into other network connections.
Secruity wise, Windows will have a fixx for a known breech within the Week ... if they know about it, then they'll release a patch to fix it asap. Linux unless you want to do it yourself (which to Mr. Joe Bloggs isn't an option) you have to wait until the next release candidate.
UI, well we've been over this - yeah its a great UI, if you happen to know what the feck your doing. But there are VERY FEW people out there who know to teach others, and considering Linux is trying to now move to the mass market they can't have an OS that to do even the simplest of operations requires a degree in the sodding program.
Internet, well if you can get the network connections working and the modem setup ... then Mozilla is pretty good and it runs similar to IE (but then they're really cusions so what do you expect), feature-wise however it does lack quite greatly though.
Updating, this is a joke in Linux ... i've seen seasoned Linux users get stupped and kill off thier systems just trying to upgrade the simplest of things. Linux thrives on you not having to touch it after you've installed it, but this make it extreme user unfriendly.
Compatibility - Windows and DirectX, it NEEDS 100% compatibility and it also needs to be easier to develop for. There are very very few native applications and games, and the emulation layers just don't cut it. If Linux is ever going to be serious about capturing the massmarket they MUST learn to achieve compatibility.
Windows have it with Unix/Mac/Amiga based software as standard, and it also supports close to every other major format there is.
that has nothing to do with them being a bigger product, it has more to do with Windows being easier and more accessable to develop for and Microsoft wanting to make sure that everyone is catered for rather than just the 'Windows Only' crowd.


To Survive You Must Evolve... This Time Van Will Not Escape His Fate!
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 31st Oct 2003 05:42
Quote: "Blizzard's game servers run Linux."

actually no it doesn't... the entire Blizzard Office runs on Macintosh, those which aren't Macintosh are Windows XP Professionl.
There isn't a single Linux machine within the California, Canadian nor German offices.

Quote: "Your memory may not be able to handle it but mine and other intelligent Linux users can . Anyone who can type faster than 15wpm can get those commands done before they can be excecuted with the mouse."

i left needing to know DOS commands, yeah you guessed it IN DOS over a decade ago.
Although it is useful from time to time to understand DOS and still use it and the Command Environment, there should be ZERO need to within an operating system. And quite frankly I'd rather remember how the Networking DNS needs to be setup to be compatible and not declare its signal to the rest of the internet for the internal line than know howto copy a few files with a command.

And hell you want to get into a battle about what OS is the most technically advanced then thats AmigaOS 4.0 hands down.
It's memory management is the model that Linux's is poorly based upon, it's CPU useage is intelligent useage allowing you to squeeze more power out of a slower system, it gives you direct hardware access, multiple Operating Environments, has a similar OS to Windows only with the Workbench feel, not to mention it is a fraction of the size of almost every other OS available.
Oh not forgettings it can boot a machine in under 3seconds.

you want to get all technical about it, AmigaOS has ALL of the beaten. The only reason it isn't a mainstream OS is because it works purely on PPU Processors. (Mac & Amiga)

Quote: "Yes, and some people prefer big, plush buttons, 'you've got mail' and asking Clippy everything like he's actually an AI instead of looking it up in help. Need I say more?"

Just because you see a problem with people using the paperclip help, doesn't mean others don't.
I'm not going to loose respect for one of my friends simply because he doesn't know howto use his computer that he's had for 5minutes as intemately as I do someone who's been using Windows since it existed.

And you can't expect them to either!

Quote: "'Hell you know you can get Windows Source for FREE (well cept p&p) from Microsoft Developers Network right?'
Can you compile and sell your own version? Thought not"

Actually yes, just not for free like Linux.
$180,000 License + 5% of all profits to Microsoft
this applies to all Windows and DOS Environments...

How the hell do you think the Phantom's OS works, magic?
But the question remains why would you want to? ... those pathetic Windows hating Linux users would only be like "Ohhh it's based on Windows lets see if we can crash it!!" and before you know i your OS that is barely established is being attacked by everyone left right and center, simply becuase it has Microsoft associated with it.


To Survive You Must Evolve... This Time Van Will Not Escape His Fate!
heartbone
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Posted: 31st Oct 2003 06:11 Edited at: 31st Oct 2003 06:14
Raven: "The only reason it isn't a mainstream OS is because it works purely on PPU Processors. (Mac & Amiga)"

Nope. It's because it's not Microcrap. That's the ONLY reason that AmigaOS4 is not financially successful/mainstream. Ditto BEOS.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 31st Oct 2003 09:44
No, the main reason that Amiga, BeOS, RISC OS aren't weren't successful is becaused they didn't push their machines into shops and didn't advertise - if the customer doesn't know about it, they wont buy it.

Apple have done a few adverts (for a couple of days), but you still can't get see any machines in Curry's, Dixons etc, which is more important than its small presence in PC World.


Avatar & Logo by Indi. Insert witty comment here...
DMXtra
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Posted: 31st Oct 2003 14:02
Quote: "
Nope. It's because it's not Microcrap. That's the ONLY reason that AmigaOS4 is not financially successful/mainstream. Ditto BEOS.
"


This is exactly what I mean. Blame Commodore about the Amiga's failure, don't blame Microsoft.

AmigaOS 4 was too late and so was BEOS, there wasn't a need for them anymore. I mean look at the MAC, its still around because it serves a need.

There are some people like you that Blame everything on Microsoft and there are people that get things done and can find a more productive way to deal and thats what you need to move to.

Stop blaming Microsoft for causing Solar flares and stupid crap like that and wake up to reality.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
DMXtra
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Posted: 31st Oct 2003 14:06
Quote: "
I'm ignoring your (3 posts, what the heck is that) completely random 'arguments' and just commenting on this-- who, exactly, gave you the right to enforce preventing an argument on the superiority of operating systems? Last I checked you weren't a moderator.
"


Well the problem is that you are comparing apples to oranges when it comes to OS, you can't compare a MSDOS type OS such as Win 95 as Microsoft's finest OS to any other OS. It sucks and its old...

Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows 2003 Server are based off the NT platform and its more scalable and robust and its a modern OS. All of which MSDOS OS's arn't.

They also arn't random arguments but they were enough for you not to respond to. I must have made some good points.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
heartbone
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Posted: 5th Nov 2003 05:46
Looks like Longhorn will be moving into a desktop near you.

Red Hat: Stick with Windows at home
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5101690.html

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 5th Nov 2003 10:04
Thats whatI've been saying all along.


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heartbone
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Posted: 5th Nov 2003 10:17 Edited at: 5th Nov 2003 10:18
I know.

Hopefully by the time that Longhorn is ready maybe Linux will be too. Until then there's the obsolete Windows 98 if you don't want to be extorted. But of course you will be facing more and more crap like this:

We're sorry, Napster is not currently compatible with your operating system.

Napster is currently compatible with Windows XP/2000.

Windows 95, Windows NT and the Mac OS are not supported at this time.

If you are planning on using Napster on this computer, the service will not be compatible and you should discontinue registration. If you will use Napster on a different computer, with a compatible operating system, please continue.


Last time I looked, over 50% of the computers were either Windows 98 or Windows ME. Napster must have some pretty poor coders or most likely they are depending on some of the latest M$ DRM BS.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
DMXtra
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Posted: 5th Nov 2003 11:30
Quote: "
Last time I looked, over 50% of the computers were either Windows 98 or Windows ME. Napster must have some pretty poor coders or most likely they are depending on some of the latest M$ DRM BS.
"


Heartbone,

I am sorry that you can't afford a decent OS, computer, video card, etc.... That does suck, but to be honest you are probably still using 56k or less as well.

The rest of the world moves on my friend. The reason people think Microsoft's products are unstable is because of Windows 3.1/95/98/ME. Windows 2000 and XP are very, very, very stable as they arn't connected to the 16-bit MSDOS piece of crap that Microsoft has built their shakey old OS's on before because people didn't have the hardware to run the new modern OS's until now.

Its the same thing about 28.8k modems or 56k modems, many people that don't have money to spend are being left behind and they complain about busy signals and being knocked off the Internet because of line noise or call waiting. They also hate that they have to wait just to get a web page with pictures, but this is life.

You get what you pay for, you get a 98 system that sucks and thats only made because nobody could afford the hardware (ie hard drive space, CPU speed and memory that made NT so powerfull).

After moving to Windows XP Professional and Windows 2003 Server Enterprise edition, you can clearly see that Microsoft build their house on solid rock instead of sand like on Windows 98.

Its called progress and try running a modern graphical interface like XP on a very old system and you will see that it still tanks on Linux.

You know what I would do instead of complaining all the time? Get a better job or get a better education, thats a lot better than just crying that Microsoft sucks because they don't want to stand still and let Windows 98 stay around forever along with bluescreens.

Just like you cry about DBPro using Direct X 9 and how it should work on a Commodore 64 and everything because thats all the power you have, well there is a solution to that. You don't have to have the latest hardware, but you do have to have something more modern than a Commodore Amiga Classic.

GET A JOB THAT PAYS MORE THAN FOR YOUR LUNCH MONEY.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 5th Nov 2003 11:48 Edited at: 5th Nov 2003 13:49
Well, I wouldn't put it like that, but the gist of it is more or less correct - 2000,XP etc are more secure that 98/ME etc, so they decided to go for that.


Avatar & Logo by Indi. Insert witty comment here...
empty
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Posted: 5th Nov 2003 12:08
@DMXtra
Since you have difficulties to interprete heartbone's quote correctly, I'll write it slowly:
This is NOT about what OS or DirectX version the programmers use, it's about the USERS' system. He's one of the few that actually finnishes games, so he's got all the rights to complain about system requirements. It's about his potential customers, you know.

Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.
MushroomHead
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Posted: 6th Nov 2003 14:50
Quote: "As for crashing XP - no I haven't yet - no blue screens"


I noticed BSODS for the first time 2 months ago, a hard drive with hard errors on certain sectors will crash winxp ... I had to replace the drive and since then, everything's been stable. The strange thing is a hard error on a hard disk never crashed my Win98 (I have gotten "disk is unreadable" during reboot though) but can BSOD winxp.

As for Longhorn, there's no reason to upgrade if you don't want to, there's a 64 bit version of WinXP (I think) which should run on Athlon 64's with no problems ...

- Rav.
DMXtra
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Posted: 6th Nov 2003 23:54
Quote: "
@DMXtra
Since you have difficulties to interprete heartbone's quote correctly, I'll write it slowly:
This is NOT about what OS or DirectX version the programmers use, it's about the USERS' system. He's one of the few that actually finnishes games, so he's got all the rights to complain about system requirements. It's about his potential customers, you know.
"


What does this have to do with companies like Roxio putting out Napster 2.0 that will only work on NT Based OS's?

Honestly, I am glad they are putting out stuff like this so they can get people to upgrade from that old crappy OS to something modern and stable. Most of the people who bitch about Microsoft windows, have Windows 95 through ME and its no wonder they complain so much. The same with the Internet being Slow, most of those people are using a 56k modem or slower and thus you get what you pay for.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
empty
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Posted: 7th Nov 2003 00:07
Quote: "What does this have to do with companies like Roxio putting out Napster 2.0 that will only work on NT Based OS's?"


Nothing more and nothing less than your comments like:

Quote: "Just like you cry about DBPro using Direct X 9 and how it should work on a Commodore 64 and everything because thats all the power you have, well there is a solution to that. You don't have to have the latest hardware, but you do have to have something more modern than a Commodore Amiga Classic."


Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.
DMXtra
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Posted: 7th Nov 2003 13:09
Quote: "
Nothing more and nothing less than your comments like:
"


Well the problem is that if you want to sell games to everyone, you will get the problem that not everyone is going to be interested in your game.

Blitz users have the same problem, 99 percent of the time, the only people who even play those games is blitz users in their own community and not many people outside that community even play any of those games.

Unless you make something like edutainment, a lot of people don't even know how to download off the Internet, let alone unzip a game and install it and most of those people own systems like really old pentiums because they either don't have the cash or don't really care.

When dealing with small time indie games, most people won't even bother, unless its top notch, so just because it can run on tons more systems doesn't mean people will buy the game and thats the problem with people's estimations. Go ask the Blitz community if you want confirmation of this. I have been watching them for years and years and the only person to sell anything over there was Halo (Joshu Klint) as he sold his Cartography shop to DB/DBPro users.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
empty
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Posted: 7th Nov 2003 13:19 Edited at: 7th Nov 2003 13:24
Quote: "Well the problem is that if you want to sell games to everyone, you will get the problem that not everyone is going to be interested in your game."

Who would have thought it.

There is a market for "office games" played by people who are usually not interested in top notch games. They just want a quick game. Play it for 5 minutes or half an hour, maybe every other day or once in a week over lunch time without losing the plot (ask Phenomedia).


Quote: "I have been watching them for years and years and the only person to sell anything over there was Halo (Joshu Klint) as he sold his Cartography shop to DB/DBPro users."

So you think Halo is the only one?
I know a lot more people who sell their software.

Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.
heartbone
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Posted: 7th Nov 2003 17:12
It's obvious to me DMXtra you are not a programmer but rather a user with too much time. You really should not waste your or our time posting on this board.

If you were a programmer of any depth you would have seen the BSOD on XP many times.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
DMXtra
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 14:23
Quote: "
There is a market for "office games" played by people who are usually not interested in top notch games. They just want a quick game. Play it for 5 minutes or half an hour, maybe every other day or once in a week over lunch time without losing the plot (ask Phenomedia).
"


I don't know where you work at, but everyone I know doesn't have time to play games at work and even if they did they would get fired. Maybe if you are a game developer you get to play games at work, but everyone else has to be PRODUCTIVE.

Most of the people that I described will play solitare.


I know a lot more people who sell their software.


I mean SELLING SOFTWARE AND MAKING A TON OF MONEY OFF OF THEIR WORK. Very few people actually make a lot of money as they would a normal job when it comes to lowend Indi games development. Expecially those made with 3DRAD, Blitz 3D, and DarkBasic.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
DMXtra
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 14:34
Quote: "
If you were a programmer of any depth you would have seen the BSOD on XP many times.
"


Let me guess, you are competing with Raven as the biggest and dumbest redneck of the year award.

What kind of statement is that? Thats just pure ignorance. Do you honestly think that Java, C#, Micrsoft programmers arn't anything if they haven't seen BSOD?

oh wait, I just make 75 thousand a year using .Net and used VB6 at work and also write SQL stored procs with functions and never have any problems with bluescreens.

Just because your ignorant doesn't mean all other programmers are that way. Nobody I know at work or otherwise has seen a BSOD using XP or Windows 2003 Server edition.

Also my company works directly with Microsoft and working on a few projects like the Media Center project and creating new .DLL's for the project and nobody I know has seen a bluescreen on XP even with all that. Now we have had functionality problems with the remote control and such..

STFU when you clearly don't have a clue. You put out a few old-school games using DBPro and you think you are the man.

I thought we got rid of all the jerks and a$$holes and they all went to the Blitz community, I can see there are a few left that need to go.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
DMXtra
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 14:36
Quote: "
but rather a user with too much time. You really should not waste your or our time posting on this board.
"


I work 11 hours a day, yeah I sure have too much times on my hands.
Dude work on something as I know you don't have a real job.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
empty
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 17:03 Edited at: 8th Nov 2003 17:04
Quote: "I don't know where you work at, but everyone I know doesn't have time to play games at work and even if they did they would get fired."

So you work 11 hours (as you stated) a day without taking breaks?


Quote: "I mean SELLING SOFTWARE AND MAKING A TON OF MONEY OFF OF THEIR WORK. Very few people actually make a lot of money as they would a normal job when it comes to lowend Indi games development. Expecially those made with 3DRAD, Blitz 3D, and DarkBasic."

And your point is? Unless you make "a ton of money off of your game" you shouldn't complain about high system requierements?

Why is it so hard to understand. "Bedroom coders" who want to reach a large user base need to keep the requirements as low as possible.


Quote: "STFU when you clearly don't have a clue. You put out a few old-school games using DBPro and you think you are the man."

Of course you are the man. You know everything and you completed countless games in DBpro. You just haven't released them yet. Tell me, where have I heard this before?

Quote: "I thought we got rid of all the jerks and a$$holes and they all went to the Blitz community, I can see there are a few left that need to go."

Yeah, you're right. It's time that you leave. And remember to take the long way home.

Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 17:07
Do try to keep the insults to a minimum...


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heartbone
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Posted: 8th Nov 2003 19:36
heartbone: "If you were a programmer of any depth you would have seen the BSOD on XP many times."

DMXtra: "Let me guess, you are competing with Raven as the biggest and dumbest redneck of the year award"

This is a DarkBASIC board. You should have known that I meant DarkBASIC programmer. I'm sure that in your highly encapsulated M$ programming paradigm it is IMPOSSIBLE to see the BSOD.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
DMXtra
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Posted: 9th Nov 2003 13:10
Quote: "
So you work 11 hours (as you stated) a day without taking breaks?
"


yeah of course you can take breaks, but because games are not productive, they are not allowed in the workplace, Lunch is for taking a break and eating, not playing computer games on your desktop and I think you would know that, but its quite apparent you don't have a job.


Quote: "I mean SELLING SOFTWARE AND MAKING A TON OF MONEY OFF OF THEIR WORK. Very few people actually make a lot of money as they would a normal job when it comes to lowend Indi games development. Expecially those made with 3DRAD, Blitz 3D, and DarkBasic."

Quote: "
And your point is? Unless you make "a ton of money off of your game" you shouldn't complain about high system requierements?
"


Usually those who can make a game with those high system requirements make them for the hard core user who actually plays games and has time to play games.

The typical business office does not play games and a lot of them don't even have sound cards or 3D cards to be able to play your lowend games anyway.

Quote: "
Why is it so hard to understand. "Bedroom coders" who want to reach a large user base need to keep the requirements as low as possible.
"


What large user base? If you don't play games, you don't play games and most of the people that you are trying to get a large user base with don't even play games at all and don't even know how to download them in the first place, thats what so stupid.

You assume that just because a machine will run your game that it will, you have not factored in enough varibles in the situation.

For example, my dad has a Pentium II 450 Mhz computer with a TNT card with 128 megs of ram and he could play your lowend games but he does not, he writes books using word perfect for windows and does his taxes on his computer, these are the kind of people you have not factored in your userbase and those are the people that are likely to count in a huge amount.

Most account managers using Windows 98 are not going to run your game anyway. The furthest someone will run a game if at all is using the built in windows solitare games.

These are the biggest factors of what Blitz users and you guys don't understand. Its not if you can run a game for compatiblity sake, its WILL they run a game or do they even care.

Quote: "
Of course you are the man. You know everything and you completed countless games in DBpro. You just haven't released them yet. Tell me, where have I heard this before?
"


I have made bumpmapped demos and other things, I am awaiting for some DLL's out there with upgrade 6 and another .DLL thats top secret sorry.... However, my problem still stands, who is going to play your lowend games? I know for a fact that when Halo releases his engine a lot of people are going to check it out, its now lowend but its for the people who actually "PLAY" games.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this out, by the way.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
DMXtra
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Aug 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 9th Nov 2003 13:27
Quote: "
It's obvious to me DMXtra you are not a programmer but rather a user with too much time. You really should not waste your or our time posting on this board.

If you were a programmer of any depth you would have seen the BSOD on XP many times.
"


Yeah, really sounds like you were taling about Dark Basic here.
Real game tools forums complains about Raven, I just don't know why they have not complained about you yet.

I have written some things in DBPro, with No bluescreens. I have written a planet earth with bumpmapping on it with no bluescreens.

Now I have had earlier version of DBPro crash on me, but not lately. Not a single bluescreen.

Maybe its because I have better hardware than you do and up to date drivers, I don't know... I have an ATI 9800 Pro ATI video card with 128 megs of ram and 512 megs of ram, Pentium 4 2 Ghz, Sound Blaster Audigy 2 Platinum, Sony 4X Dual DVD+R/DVD-R drive, Windows XP Profesisonal with everything up to date as of todays date, Service pack one and the whole deal and have NEVER seen a bluescreen using ANY code on DArk basic Pro, NEVER.

I have NEVER even heard of anyone except you get a bluescreen with DBPro, I only just read of one person on here that had bad sectors on his hard drive not even related to DB have a bluescreen but I have not even seen one in DBpro.

I have seen them however in windows 98 without DBPro. I would get them when my drive wouldn't read and was busy.

I mean if you have a Bluescreen with Windows XP Pro, it usually mean something would be seriously wrong with your hardware, but I really doubt it. I think you are so anti windows that you will make crap up just to do it.

See your so focused on making Linux look better and Windows to look worse even with Windows XP, not because its a bad OS, but because you hate Microsoft and thats where I stop even believing what you say is true.

Its people like you that make me dislike Linux even more every day, its just pathetic, its like people being stupid and trying to attack MS because they have no life and no job and can't be constructive in their own lives.

If you like Linux, fine, see you, have a nice life go masturbate to porn all of your life, I don't care. Honestly I don't. However, to come on here and constantly bash Microsoft is just wrong.

I would rather work at Microsoft and make even more money that I do right now and have that much power to get things done, it would be wonderful instead of sitting on my butt all day long and trying to figure out how I can compile my name in the kernel so I can be famous and masturbate to porn because i don't have a girlfriend or wife because I spend all day doing nothing with no job on my computer.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 9th Nov 2003 17:29
Quote: "Lunch is for taking a break and eating, not playing computer games on your desktop and I think you would know that, but its quite apparent you don't have a job."

It's sad that you're not allowed to play games during lunch time where you work... but surprise, surprise... your place is not the centre of the earth. I can work whenever I want, take a launch break whenever I like, and do whatever I like during my breaks.
Apart from me, you'll have noticed that a lot people post on these boars from their workplace.

Quote: "
Usually those who can make a game with those high system requirements make them for the hard core user who actually plays games and has time to play games."

Usually hard core gamers don't give a fudge for "independant" games.

Quote: "The typical business office does not play games and a lot of them don't even have sound cards or 3D cards to be able to play your lowend games anyway."

Your office is not typical.


Quote: "For example, my dad has a Pentium II 450 Mhz computer with a TNT card with 128 megs of ram and he could play your lowend games but he does not, he writes books using word perfect for windows and does his taxes on his computer, these are the kind of people you have not factored in your userbase and those are the people that are likely to count in a huge amount."

For example, my mate has a AMD Duron 800 MHz computer with a TNT card, 256 RAM, and he hardly plays games at all. But occasionally he buys a little shareware racing game.


Quote: "I have made bumpmapped demos and other things, I am awaiting for some DLL's out there with upgrade 6 and another .DLL thats top secret sorry...."

Yeah sure whatever.

As for your reply to heartbone
Quote: "Real game tools forums complains about Raven, I just don't know why they have not complained about you yet."

Believe me, you're first on that "people to complain about" list.

Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.
DMXtra
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Aug 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 10th Nov 2003 12:52
Quote: "
It's sad that you're not allowed to play games during lunch time where you work... but surprise, surprise... your place is not the centre of the earth. I can work whenever I want, take a launch break whenever I like, and do whatever I like during my breaks.
Apart from me, you'll have noticed that a lot people post on these boars from their workplace.
"


Well nobody I know is allowed to play games at work either. I don't know what your country is like, but here in America, we don't have time for silly games unless you are a game company. We actually work and get crap done. Games are considered unproductive while at work and entertainment at home. Now that might not fit well where you are from, but the USA is the worlds most productive nation and there is a reason for that and its not because of some jacka$$ playing games all day.

Quote: "
Usually hard core gamers don't give a fudge for "independant" games.
"


Tell that to ID Software who were once in that position as were Epic Games. If you can get a group of talented people and a project manager to keep things in line and schedules made, there is no telling where you might go.

Quote: "
Your office is not typical.
"


Yeah, thank you mister stats. I think I can prove you wrong just by common knowledge in the USA alone. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that you are wrong. The economy isn't all that great and people playing games at work in todays world in the USA that don't have anything to do with a video game company could be in the top 10 for getting laid off. People want results with the cheapest possible pay and they don't want people to be playing video games all day.

Quote: "
For example, my mate has a AMD Duron 800 MHz computer with a TNT card, 256 RAM, and he hardly plays games at all. But occasionally he buys a little shareware racing game.
"


My dad is 65 years old. Your mate as you call him can't be that old, but most likely I bet he has a Playstation or some game console and thats where they play most of their games as a casual user.

A TNT barely runs anything on todays computers so I know he has some sort of console because you know he won't be able to play Doom 3, Halo, the new Tomb Raider or Half Life 2.

Quote: "
Yeah sure whatever.
"


Thats how I think of your post. Its strung out like some cocain user. You don't have to believe me. My bumpmapping demo is 3 megs otherwise I would post it and yes I am working with a .DLL which has not been made public which I signed an NDA for, but I don't care if you believe me or not, I mean look at your own posts, next to a joke.

Quote: "
Believe me, you're first on that "people to complain about" list.
"


Hey, thats fine by me. Its not like I care how people want to view me, thats their problem not mine. However, heartbone is still making jacka$$ statements just like Raven or tons of people in the Blitz community (All the dumb people in the same community), kind of like the community of rednecks.

Come on, making statements like "You haven't programmed if you haven't seen blue screen of Death in XP." is just asking for it.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
OSX Using Happy Dude
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 10th Nov 2003 14:54 Edited at: 10th Nov 2003 14:55
Actually, according to the latest study it would be best if you could play games during work - apparently you become more productive.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3247595.stm

I'm not a typical worker - I work on my own, with the occasional visit from the boss (unforunately), so I can work or play games when I like. I have no real time-frames to work to either Although it may change next year if another programmer is brought in...

Anyhoo, lets not get into a slanging match now - this is for discussing Longhorn.


Avatar & Logo by Indi. Mirrors are more fun than television.
empty
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: 3 boats down from the candy
Posted: 10th Nov 2003 14:54
Quote: "Well nobody I know is allowed to play games at work either. I don't know what your country is like, but here in America, we don't have time for silly games unless you are a game company. We actually work and get crap done. Games are considered unproductive while at work and entertainment at home. Now that might not fit well where you are from, but the USA is the worlds most productive nation and there is a reason for that and its not because of some jacka$$ playing games all day."

So the USA is one of the most productive countries because it is not allowed to play games during launch time? What "crap" do you get done during launch breaks?


Quote: "Tell that to ID Software who were once in that position as were Epic Games. If you can get a group of talented people and a project manager to keep things in line and schedules made, there is no telling where you might go."

1) Compare the growth of video game markets in the 1990s with the growth now.
2) I remember playing Doom 1 on a relatively out-dated AMD processor and it ran well.

Quote: "People want results with the cheapest possible pay and they don't want people to be playing video games all day."

Launch or other breaks. Is it so hard to read?


Quote: "My dad is 65 years old. Your mate as you call him can't be that old, but most likely I bet he has a Playstation or some game console and thats where they play most of their games as a casual user."

He's 40 although I'm not sure what age has got do with it. And as I said: "he hardly plays games at all". No Playstation, XBox, Dreamcast or any other console.

Quote: "My bumpmapping demo is 3 megs otherwise I would post it and yes I am working with a .DLL which has not been made public which I signed an NDA for, but I don't care if you believe me or not, I mean look at your own posts, next to a joke."

No, I don't believe you.


Quote: "Hey, thats fine by me. Its not like I care how people want to view me, thats their problem not mine. However, heartbone is still making jacka$$ statements"

Well, in this thread you're the only one who makes silly statements. Or insult people most of the time. You don't have a lot of friends, have you? I mean real friends.

Whatever, live your little life in your own little world. I can't be bothered to post here anymore.

Me, I'll sit and write this love song as I all too seldom do
build a little fire this midnight. It's good to be back home with you.
DMXtra
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Aug 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 11th Nov 2003 00:33
Quote: "
So the USA is one of the most productive countries because it is not allowed to play games during launch time? What "crap" do you get done during launch breaks?
"


Eating lunch is to give you energy to get your work done, it has nothing to do with playing video games on a computer at work that could be played during hours while you are NOT ON LUNCH.

Here is a clue, read this article. Although its not talking directly about video games it is talking about net access, however the same principle applies here...
[href]
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/33897.html
[/href]

Quote: "
1) Compare the growth of video game markets in the 1990s with the growth now.
2) I remember playing Doom 1 on a relatively out-dated AMD processor and it ran well.
"


Try running Doom on a 386 with 2 megs of ram, oh wait you can see frames flipping. Here is the deal, it took a high end 486 at the time to run Doom, sure you can run it with a outdated AMD processor now, but back then it was luxury to have a 486 run the game.

Also sure the growth in video games is bigger today, no doubt about that. I am not debating that though. You can still have a break through title that sells through to the hardcore players. Look at Counter Strike, that wouldn't be that hard to create in Dark Basic Pro at the moment and you would have a crowd of hard core Counter Strike folks follow your game if you pulled it off correctly.

Quote: "
He's 40 although I'm not sure what age has got do with it. And as I said: "he hardly plays games at all". No Playstation, XBox, Dreamcast or any other console.
"


Well thats one person, show me more than just someone you know. I personally don't know anyone and I have just only now heard of one person. wow, you have expanded your userbase by one person, oh wait, does he actually play or care about YOUR games. Other than a testing buddy just to test your games? Does he know how to download games off the Internet and install them?

Let me give you a hint, most people like him, will basically only play with windows's built in games and not download or install games at all and they usually get their kids the gaming consoles.

Its usually not older folks that play games, its possible and its becoming even more likely, but its also more likely that those people like me who played Asteroids and such are getting older and buying a nice system just to play Doom 3.

It is highly unlikely that a person with a really old computer or a office machine with no sound card, etc.. is really that into games to make a difference, as I pointed out with my dad, he doesn't care about gaming and has more important things to do and considers gaming a waste of time.

Now there are hardcore users and casual users and users who don't care about games at all and office environments which are not set up for gaming because there is no point in it.

Its okay to target the hardcore and the casual users, but beyond that is a waste of time, no matter how big the market that YOU THINK it is. The key is "YOU THINK". Just because your game will run on any machine doesn't mean it will and most cases it won't.



Quote: "No, I don't believe you."

Great, big deal.

Quote: "
Well, in this thread you're the only one who makes silly statements. Or insult people most of the time. You don't have a lot of friends, have you? I mean real friends.

Whatever, live your little life in your own little world. I can't be bothered to post here anymore.
"


Yes, I have friends in real life and we have grown up through high school and college. The thing that they arn't clueless either.

I mean anyone who says something like what Heartbone said, sounds like a two year old having a fit because Microsoft is doing well and he can't stand it, so he has to make up stuff.

[sarcastic]
oh, wait, right after I saved this message, I got the BSOD. Micro$oft sucks!! Linux forever!!!!
[/sarcastic]

Some people are so biased to the point of being idiotic, well I rest my case.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
heartbone
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Nov 2002
Location:
Posted: 11th Nov 2003 00:39
DMXtra I think that you post too much. You need to get a life.

This topic was supposed to be about Longhorn, not about your obsessive thoughts about me. Seriously.

Quit rambling and try to stay on topic.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
Rob K
Retired Moderator
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Sep 2002
Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 11th Nov 2003 01:17
Grow up the lot of you!

Everyone here is using Windows, so it can't be *that* bad, and a lot of people happily use Linux, so it isn't *that* bad either. In my experience out-of-date graphics drivers are the chief cause of BSODs.

Back to Longhorn then folks...


BLUE GUI Plugin: http://blue.robert-knight.net / BLUE IDE [href]http://blueide.sf.net/ - Replacement editor for DBPro[/href]
DMXtra
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Aug 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 11th Nov 2003 03:41
Quote: "
DMXtra I think that you post too much. You need to get a life.
"


I don't post that much at all, its only when I need help or I see stupid comments about something, when you tend to do quite often.

Quote: "
This topic was supposed to be about Longhorn, not about your obsessive thoughts about me. Seriously.
"


I have obsessive thoughts about beyonce knowles, I don't have any thoughts like that about you. Its just that any thread thats good is brought down by your insane hatred for progress and anything Microsoft.

To swing this topic back off the Commodore 64 mentality and 30 year OS's there is something interesting I found about LongHorn:

Source: http://www.betanews.com/article.php3?sid=1068263565

According to reports, Microsoft is busy sculpting the form of a potential Flash competitor code-named "Sparkle." Word has it that Redmond's tool will serve as a developer's front-end to build applications upon Longhorn's next generation Avalon graphics subsystem.

Dark Basic Pro - The Bedroom Coder's Language of choice for the 21st Century.
heartbone
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Nov 2002
Location:
Posted: 11th Nov 2003 17:06
DMXtra: "Its just that any thread thats good is brought down by your insane hatred for progress and anything Microsoft."

DMXtra the only one spewing hate here is you. The only respondant who seems insane is you.

I'll quote you:
"Hey, thats fine by me. Its not like I care how people want to view me, thats their problem not mine. However, heartbone is still making jacka$$ statements just like Raven or tons of people in the Blitz community (All the dumb people in the same community), kind of like the community of rednecks."

Since you don't care..... let's just say I'll try to understand your mental problems. I hope that you get the help that you need, you can afford it on your $75,000 salary.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.

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