Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Windows 10 Creator's Update and Full Screen Exclusive mode

Author
Message
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 26th Apr 2017 02:05 Edited at: 26th Apr 2017 02:19
Link
I have noticed that after upgrading to Windows 10 Creator's Update that an already compiled program stopped working.
Screen is black and the program seems to not load at all.
Changing the program to full screen windowed mode immediately resolves the issue but is not useful because of other unrelated bugs.
(video playback launches in a separate window instead of as an on screen animation unless in full screen exclusive mode)

I setup a Full Screen Exclusive Mode as follows:
Quote: "
Set display mode 1920,1080,32
Autocam off
Sync On
Sync Rate 0
Set Window off
Color Backdrop rgb(0,0,0)
Sync
"

Project properties in Synergy Editor also is set to Full Desktop.
The error seems to occur at the "Set Window Off" command. The screen remains black, there is no error message.

It would appear that Full Screen Exclusive mode is not working in the Latest WIndows 10.
Manually setting the program to Windows 7 compatibility corrected the problem.
Back to top
Profile PM
zero32
7
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jul 2016
Location:
Posted: 26th Apr 2017 12:25
Link
just to let you know, the code you posted works for me on windows 10 Creators Update without compatibly or admin mode. i use DBPro U76
Back to top
Profile PM
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 26th Apr 2017 21:28
Link
It does not on mine. The screen remains black, the program frozen. Which means that if you tried to release an app or game made with DBP a portion of your user base would be getting this problem.
Back to top
Profile PM
CodeName
7
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Dec 2016
Location:
Posted: 26th Apr 2017 23:13 Edited at: 26th Apr 2017 23:22
Link
The display mode more than likely is the problem..
Run this code to find what your GPU is allowed to display.

Rem Created: Sunday, April 23, 2017

Rem ***** Main Source File *****

perform checklist for display modes

print checklist quantity() // This will give the number of how many 32bit and 16bit display modes you have

for t=1 to 19 // inc the number 19, if you might have more 32 bit display modes..
set text size 1
print checklist string$(t)
next t

display: // loop
goto display
Back to top
Profile PM
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 27th Apr 2017 05:04 Edited at: 27th Apr 2017 05:10
Link
The display mode is supported. I want to be specific, this is a compiled program that was working for years up until Windows 10 Creators Update was installed.
A previously compiled program that now no longer works.
Now it hangs with a black screen when 1920x1080x32 Full Screen Exclusive mode is setup.

CodeName wrote: "The display mode more than likely is the problem.."


I modified that code to print all of the display modes.


Output:


As you can see the display mode is included in the valid modes. The Desktop is also set to 1920x1080.

I am also seeing some changes to GAMMA behavior in Full Screen Exclusive mode. I haven't quite explored it all but when the video is flushed it is setting a high gamma, and I haven't figured out how to completely correct the issue. It's just odd behavior. Things are a bit glitchy where they were not before.
Back to top
Profile PM
CodeName
7
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Dec 2016
Location:
Posted: 27th Apr 2017 05:54
Link
I had a lot of issues with things being bright..
I also installed Win10 because I could not get DBPro to work on WinXP.
Main problem I had was from using the binary.. The normals were very bright on objects.

What I did instead was installed from the CD.. Then ran the U77.. Then placed the Certificates folder in the binary folder to the Installed DBPro Compiler folder.

I also installed the old direct x files, even thought everyone says you don't have to!

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=8109

Back to top
Profile PM
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 27th Apr 2017 08:45
Link
No effect.
Back to top
Profile PM
CodeName
7
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Dec 2016
Location:
Posted: 27th Apr 2017 16:46 Edited at: 27th Apr 2017 22:06
Link
Edit : ran the Update and now nothing works. Time to down grade.

Edit : cant get it to work now.. just a few demos work.. Admin Problems

Was fun while it lasted!
Back to top
Profile PM
zero32
7
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jul 2016
Location:
Posted: 27th Apr 2017 22:21
Link
Mage, can you upload one of your exe files so i can try if they run on my system? the problem is either a windows setting, then the exe should work without problem, or a compiler issue, then the exe should crash for me too. what DBPro version are you using?
also, my DBPro is installed at "C:\Tools". i created this folder myself and there are no admin rights needed for the programm to run. (in fact, i didn't install it, i just copied it from my win7 backup wich was a copy of my winxp backup. them lazyness...)
Back to top
Profile PM
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 2nd May 2017 03:15 Edited at: 2nd May 2017 17:05
Link
zero32 wrote: "Mage, can you upload one of your exe files so i can try if they run on my system? the problem is either a windows setting, then the exe should work without problem, or a compiler issue, then the exe should crash for me too."

I have attached a compiled exe to this post. Source is listed below.



zero32 wrote: "what DBPro version are you using? also, my DBPro is installed at "C:\Tools". i created this folder myself and there are no admin rights needed for the programm to run."

Installed from CD. Latest official update.

I want to be clear about a few things.
- This happened after installing the Windows 10 Creator's Update.
- Existing longstanding compiled programs stopped working.
- It doesn't matter where the programs are located on the hard drive.
- Simply setting compatibility mode to windows 8 or less seems to correct the problem.

Attachments

Login to view attachments
Back to top
Profile PM
zero32
7
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jul 2016
Location:
Posted: 2nd May 2017 08:00
Link
Mage wrote: "I have attached a compiled exe to this post."

there is no exe.
i followed that other thread about video card issues:
CumQuaT wrote: "Ok, so this only seems to be happening on computers running the latest build of Windows 10 and are using AMD video cards... Anyone using an nVidia card is totally unaffected..."

i have an nvidia card. then that must be it?
Back to top
Profile PM
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 2nd May 2017 17:08
Link
zero32 wrote: "there is no exe."

I uploaded it again. Properly this time. The source code is included in the post. Just a few lines of code.

zero32 wrote: "i have an nvidia card. then that must be it?"

I think there's a bunch of new bugs and only a few people are reporting some them.
Back to top
Profile PM
zero32
7
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jul 2016
Location:
Posted: 2nd May 2017 22:22
Link
your exe works without problem on my pc. i also uploaded my version. i set the project settings to fullscreen. you can try it if you want but i guess it's safe to say that this is not a compiler issue.
maybe you have better chances on resolving those "unrelated bugs" you spoke of?

Attachments

Login to view attachments
Back to top
Profile PM
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 2nd May 2017 22:46
Link
zero32 wrote: "i guess it's safe to say that this is not a compiler issue."

As I mentioned I compiled before the Windows 10 Update and the programs worked up until the update.
I have observed that DBP has different behavior on different computers in rare instances. So this is no surprise to me.
Back to top
Profile PM
Green Gandalf
VIP Member
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jan 2005
Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 5th May 2017 23:21
Link
I don't know whether this is the same issue, but I've had a strange black screen problem with Heroes 4 on my W10 laptop. When I run the game I get a completely black screen. However, the game is running and I can reurn to it by pressing the Windows button followed by clicking on the game's icon in the taskbar. After that the game runs perfectly. Happens consistently every time.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 6th May 2017 06:07 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2017 05:02
Link
It's comforting to know Green Gandalf is around
I have to use the Full Screen Exclusive mode since another bug with the Play Animation command plays videos in a separate detached window otherwise. (So I'm already working around another separate bug).

In any case I create a simple Full Screen Exclusive mode app.
The monitor switches video modes, and shows it's built in screen overlay temporarily showing it switched. Screen remains black.
Then I tab out, the video mode does not change. This reveals that Full Screen Exclusive mode is not active and it is merely a windowed mode of some sort.
Then I tab back in and out and there are no further video mode changes.
I close the app (ESC button). App closes, so App is not frozen.
I enable Windows 8 Compatibility mode.
Launching the app loads it correctly in Full Screen Exclusive mode.

Now remember I am using Load Animation and Play Animation and Loop Animation commands.
It turns out there is a memory leak when using these commands.
So a 3rd bug workaround involves using the Set Display Mode command to completely free the memory. (It happens that I can get away with doing this, reloading lost assets in a timely manner in my situation)
Well this used to work well. Program used to progress normally.
Now (with Windows Compatibility Mode on) instead Set Display Mode does it's job but causes Full Screen Exclusive Mode to glitch out. The windows taskbar appears along the bottom of the screen and the program is in Windowed Mode.

So the whole thing is like working around a bug to work around a bug to work around a bug.
It's like releasing snakes to kill mice, owls to kill snakes, cats to kill the owls.
Back to top
Profile PM
zero32
7
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jul 2016
Location:
Posted: 6th May 2017 10:30
Link
Dark Basic Pro is using the installed video codecs to open the video files. i just tested opening a .wmv file and checked if there is any kind of memory leak. couldn't find anything. it may be the installed codec that is causing the memory problems as well as the thing with the video opening in a new window.
what filetype do you use? did you try different files?
did you install a codec pack that overwrites the original codecs installed in windows (like the kLite codec pack)?

are there any other bugs that force you to use the fullscreen exclusive mode?
Back to top
Profile PM
CumQuaT
AGK Master
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Apr 2010
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posted: 6th May 2017 11:04
Link
Hey Mage, can you put in some sort of console output to your program?

This sounds similar to what happened for me in Malevolence. I thought it had frozen up, but when I checked my console output I saw that the game was still completely running fun, right down to registering mouse clicks. It was just that SYNC had stopped working.
I work full-time making games in AGK2 and DBpro. Living the dream!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ortu
DBPro Master
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 6th May 2017 15:30
Link
Quote: "another bug with the Play Animation command plays videos in a separate detached window otherwise. (So I'm already working around another separate bug)."


Why not play the video to a 3d plain fixed to the screen? would then not play in a separate window and you could then drop the requirement for full screen exclusive which has always been a bit of a pain to work with anyway
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 7th May 2017 07:14 Edited at: 7th May 2017 07:37
Link
zero32 wrote: "Dark Basic Pro is using the installed video codecs to open the video files. i just tested opening a .wmv file and checked if there is any kind of memory leak. couldn't find anything. it may be the installed codec that is causing the memory problems as well as the thing with the video opening in a new window."

h264 .avi files. I am loading hundreds of videos and at that volume of loading and unloading the memory leak appears. The opening in a separate window bug affects everyone.
Also h264 was picked because it offers modern compression with the best quality. Switching all that media to .wmv or .mpg would be a disaster.

zero32 wrote: "did you install a codec pack that overwrites the original codecs installed in windows (like the kLite codec pack)?"

installed an h264 codec. x264vfw. Which was required for encoding the files also.

zero32 wrote: "are there any other bugs that force you to use the fullscreen exclusive mode?"

None that I have encountered.

CumQuaT wrote: "This sounds similar to what happened for me in Malevolence. I thought it had frozen up, but when I checked my console output I saw that the game was still completely running fun, right down to registering mouse clicks. It was just that SYNC had stopped working."

This is the case in my situation. The program is actually still running despite a completely black screen. I can still blindly click on things, etc.

Ortu wrote: "Why not play the video to a 3d plain fixed to the screen? would then not play in a separate window and you could then drop the requirement for full screen exclusive which has always been a bit of a pain to work with anyway"

You are forced to use the Play Animation To Image command. This command will open an AVI file in a separate window unless the game is in Full Screen Exclusive mode. Everybody has this problem. It is a bug in DB Pro. I am exploring if Dark Video can be used as an alternative.
Using Full Screen Exclusive mode is not a pain to deal with when you program your game for it correctly. This is a small example I made a while back: https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/202959
When you tab out or whatever nothing special happens, when alt-tab switching back in, on the first SYNC after getting back DBPro flushes all of the assets. You need to detect this and have a system setup to reload your assets. So it requires running recovery code after each Sync and excellent asset management.
Here are some people complaining about the same issue (AVI plays in separate window):
https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/194306
https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/21606

On a separate note I will just mention something about Windowed Mode and Full Screen Exclusive mode. When you use windowed mode it draws to a window and at a later time the operating system draws that window to the screen. This introduces 15-30ms of screen and input lag. It also potentially reduces frame rate. Full Screen Exclusive mode does not do this. I thought it was important to mention this since we're on the subject.
Back to top
Profile PM
Rudolpho
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Dec 2005
Location: Sweden
Posted: 7th May 2017 08:05
Link
Does this problem occur on any Windows 10 (Creator's Update) system or only if also using an AMD card as in CumQuaT's case?

Mage wrote: "The program is actually still running despite a completely black screen. I can still blindly click on things, etc."

Is your backdrop colour black? If so could you try changing it and see if it displays that or still black?
If that doesn't change anything, try to make sure that the backdrop is showing in some places (ie. don't render a skybox / remove the ceiling from an indoors scene / similar) and see if the backdrop colour shows up then. It kind of sounds like all shaders may get unloaded for whatever reason; if so everything will render as black. This doesn't affect the back buffer clearing ("backdrop") colour though so should be easy to check.

If that fails, you could also try to render to an image and save it to disk to see whether the rendering is working but it isn't properly connected to the window anymore.

Mage wrote: "You are forced to use the Play Animation To Image command. This command will open an AVI file in a separate window unless the game is in Full Screen Exclusive mode. Everybody has this problem. It is a bug in DB Pro."

Oh so it works if you do that? I see... I knew it was always borked somehow though, thanks for clearing that up for me

Mage wrote: "Using Full Screen Exclusive mode is not a pain to deal with when you program your game for it correctly. This is a small example I made a while back: [href=null]https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/202959[/href]
When you tab out or whatever nothing special happens, when alt-tab switching back in, on the first SYNC after getting back DBPro flushes all of the assets. You need to detect this and have a system setup to reload your assets. So it requires running recovery code after each Sync and excellent asset management."

<shamelessAdvertising> The latest version of DBPro9Ex can handle full screen switching and display mode changes without this happening. </shamelessAdvertising>

My projects: [ Ziggurat Engine ] [ DBPro 9Ex ] [ ZInput ]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 7th May 2017 08:38 Edited at: 7th May 2017 10:13
Link
Rudolpho wrote: "<shamelessAdvertising> The latest version of DBPro9Ex can handle full screen switching and display mode changes without this happening. </shamelessAdvertising>"

It does not however fix Full Screen Exclusive mode in Windows 10 Creators update. Black screen. Windows Compatibility Mode still needs to be turned on as a workaround just like regular DBP.

Rudolpho wrote: "Does this problem occur on any Windows 10 (Creator's Update) system or only if also using an AMD card as in CumQuaT's case?"

He is using AMD and I am using nVidia.

Rudolpho wrote: "Is your backdrop colour black? If so could you try changing it and see if it displays that or still black?"

I changed it to red. The program is very simple just a few lines shown below. The screen remains black.


Rudolpho wrote: "If that fails, you could also try to render to an image and save it to disk to see whether the rendering is working but it isn't properly connected to the window anymore."

Well now you've discovered something important. Yes the image is saved completely fine. A nice red square.
Back to top
Profile PM
CumQuaT
AGK Master
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Apr 2010
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posted: 7th May 2017 10:39
Link
Quote: "Well now you've discovered something important. Yes the image is saved completely fine. A nice red square."


Now that IS interesting... I hadn't thought to try that in Malevolence...


Quote: "It kind of sounds like all shaders may get unloaded for whatever reason"


Not so. Malevolence has the option to run without using any shaders, and yet it still happens for the same users.
I work full-time making games in AGK2 and DBpro. Living the dream!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Rudolpho
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Dec 2005
Location: Sweden
Posted: 7th May 2017 12:50
Link
Mage wrote: "It does not however fix Full Screen Exclusive mode in Windows 10 Creators update."

I see, I haven't been able to test it on that yet. Seems it may have broken something in DX itself.

Mage wrote: "Windows Compatibility Mode still needs to be turned on as a workaround just like regular DBP."

I'm not entirely sure what this is referencing, care to elaborate?

CumQuaT wrote: "Not so. Malevolence has the option to run without using any shaders, and yet it still happens for the same users."

There are still the internal DirectX default shaders that are used then; you need a shader (essentially a GPU program) to render anything

As for the issue at hand, sounds like the swapchain may get messed up somehow. It's also possible that the newset Windows 10 update has disabled fullscreen exclusive mode alltogether - do any other games manage to run in it?

My projects: [ Ziggurat Engine ] [ DBPro 9Ex ] [ ZInput ]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
CumQuaT
AGK Master
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Apr 2010
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posted: 7th May 2017 13:52
Link
Interesting...

I wonder how one could re-initialize the default shaders?

I'm not so sure that it's directly linked to fullscreen exclusive, as my players get the same issue when playing in windowed mode.
I work full-time making games in AGK2 and DBpro. Living the dream!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 8th May 2017 04:49
Link
Rudolpho wrote: "Mage wrote: "Windows Compatibility Mode still needs to be turned on as a workaround just like regular DBP."

I'm not entirely sure what this is referencing, care to elaborate?"

The screen is visible when Windows Compatibility Mode is active. It doesn't matter which windows version the mode is set to only that it is on.
Using DBPex has no impact on this issue either.
Back to top
Profile PM
Ortu
DBPro Master
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 9th May 2017 06:05 Edited at: 9th May 2017 06:50
Link
I'm trying to reproduce some of the issues.

I have verified that I am running Windows 10 Home x64 - version 1703 (per update history) - build 15063 (per dxdiag)
I am using an AMD Radeon HD6870, driver version 15.201.1151.1008

Quote: "I changed it to red. The program is very simple just a few lines shown below. The screen remains black."


This code renders properly on my machine: red square, HI in the bottom left corner. Fullscreen exclusive mode set to my monitor's native resolution 1920x1080, did not run in compatibility mode, did not run as administrator.

However, after closing the program, I started getting strange issues with desktop windows like browser, folders, editor: huge delays before they visually update if you drag or minimize. I could interact and scroll within them just fine, but any moving of the window itself would give a 15-20 second delay or longer before showing the movement/minimize/restore etc.

Hovering over the item on the taskbar would usually trigger a repaint sooner.

***update: after rebooting, I was not able to reproduce that behavior, the tests continued to run properly and did not cause desktop issues after they closed. This issue may have already been occurring and may not be related at all... I didn't really move or minimize anything prior to running the tests, so I can't confirm when this really began. I had been remoting into the machine earlier which can sometimes cause various display issues. It's hard to say at this point.

Quote: "I have attached a compiled exe to this post. Source is listed below."


This exe also ran properly, displaying the text in the top left.

Quote: "zero32 wrote: "Dark Basic Pro is using the installed video codecs to open the video files. i just tested opening a .wmv file and checked if there is any kind of memory leak. couldn't find anything. it may be the installed codec that is causing the memory problems as well as the thing with the video opening in a new window."

h264 .avi files. I am loading hundreds of videos and at that volume of loading and unloading the memory leak appears. The opening in a separate window bug affects everyone.
Also h264 was picked because it offers modern compression with the best quality. Switching all that media to .wmv or .mpg would be a disaster.

zero32 wrote: "did you install a codec pack that overwrites the original codecs installed in windows (like the kLite codec pack)?"

installed an h264 codec. x264vfw. Which was required for encoding the files also.

zero32 wrote: "are there any other bugs that force you to use the fullscreen exclusive mode?"

None that I have encountered.

CumQuaT wrote: "This sounds similar to what happened for me in Malevolence. I thought it had frozen up, but when I checked my console output I saw that the game was still completely running fun, right down to registering mouse clicks. It was just that SYNC had stopped working."

This is the case in my situation. The program is actually still running despite a completely black screen. I can still blindly click on things, etc.

Ortu wrote: "Why not play the video to a 3d plain fixed to the screen? would then not play in a separate window and you could then drop the requirement for full screen exclusive which has always been a bit of a pain to work with anyway"

You are forced to use the Play Animation To Image command. This command will open an AVI file in a separate window unless the game is in Full Screen Exclusive mode. Everybody has this problem. It is a bug in DB Pro. I am exploring if Dark Video can be used as an alternative.
Using Full Screen Exclusive mode is not a pain to deal with when you program your game for it correctly. This is a small example I made a while back: https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/202959
When you tab out or whatever nothing special happens, when alt-tab switching back in, on the first SYNC after getting back DBPro flushes all of the assets. You need to detect this and have a system setup to reload your assets. So it requires running recovery code after each Sync and excellent asset management.
Here are some people complaining about the same issue (AVI plays in separate window):
https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/194306
https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/21606"


I've just tried an old test program which plays a .avi (I am not sure of the specific encoding details at this point, I believe it was made with Blender's default h264 settings) to a plain and I do not have this issue with .avi files in windowed mode neither on this PC nor on my previous windows 7 box.

This is the code I tested with (windowed mode, 800x600, no compatibility mode):



Can you post one of your .avi files for testing? If not, I'll try producing a more current file with known settings and retest.

I do not have the kLite nor x264vfw installled. I do have the CCCP combined community codec pack installed.

The default program I have associated with .avi file type is the built in 'Movies and TV' app, do you have some other application associated as the default?

I have a couple of other Windows 10 Pro machines, but I don't think they have updated to Creator's yet. one has a newer nvidia card, the other an integrated intel. I'll see about getting them updated and test ready as well.

To be clear, I am not disputing anything, I am trying to identify similarities and differences between the systems to narrow things down.
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
CumQuaT
AGK Master
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Apr 2010
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posted: 9th May 2017 14:32
Link
If you want to investigate further, Ortu, I'm happy to send you a steam key for Malevolence to see if the issues happen for you there.
I work full-time making games in AGK2 and DBpro. Living the dream!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Ortu
DBPro Master
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 9th May 2017 16:42
Link
Quote: "If you want to investigate further, Ortu, I'm happy to send you a steam key for Malevolence to see if the issues happen for you there."


Sure, I remember playing a demo or beta version of it years ago, let me know if there are any specific steps to reproduce the issue
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
CumQuaT
AGK Master
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Apr 2010
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posted: 10th May 2017 00:14
Link
PM sent.
I work full-time making games in AGK2 and DBpro. Living the dream!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 10th May 2017 06:00
Link
Ortu wrote: "Can you post one of your .avi files for testing? If not, I'll try producing a more current file with known settings and retest."

Attachments

Login to view attachments
Back to top
Profile PM
Morcilla
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Dec 2002
Location: Spain
Posted: 23rd May 2017 15:11
Link
Quote: "...an already compiled program stopped working"

Just to comment that the same happened here with DGDK.
An already compiled .exe with another Windows edition (XP, W7, W8) failed to run properly at W10, however the same project compiled at W10 run properly at W10 and at any other Windows.
It was a great pheeew to see that at least there was a workaround.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
CumQuaT
AGK Master
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Apr 2010
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posted: 2nd Jun 2017 13:30
Link
Any progress on this at all, Mage?
Help out a fellow dev! Download and rate my games! They're free!

Wizzed Off! - (Android) (iOS)
God of Thunder - (Android) (iOS)
Extreme Lawn Mowing - (Android) (iOS)
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 5th Jun 2017 09:51 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2017 05:03
Link
This is still an ongoing issue as advertised.

There is a tiny change. Before in this conversation I was using Full Screen Exclusive Mode and I mentioned I had to put the program in compatibility mode in order to see anything on screen (still do). I was then using Set Display Mode command to get around a memory leak when loading large numbers of AVI files. This produced a graphics glitch where the screen would squish up a little and reveal the taskbar at the bottom of the screen. It would stay like this, and I could even mouse over the taskbar and see it animate. It was as if I was really in some sort of glitched windowed mode. Then if I tabbed out of the program and back it would clear it up until next time Set Display Mode was used. Well this glitch does not appear to visibly happen anymore. I can almost pretend nothing is wrong now if I leave compatibility mode on.

This small change happened as a result of downloading Windows 10 updates (the same way the problem was created).

This problem is not limited to DB Pro. It's affecting a lot of DX9 games in similar forms.
Back to top
Profile PM
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 5th Jun 2017 10:21 Edited at: 5th Jun 2017 11:01
Link
Eureka: I have made a breakthrough.

I spent another hour on this issue. I discovered adding a 1 to the VSYNC value in the SET DISPLAY MODE command resolved the problem. (The trade off being VSYNC is now on)
This means no more compatibility mode or other weird Windows settings. Setting Sync Rate to 60 as an alternative method had no effect. (Not actually VSYNC)

Before:
Set Display Mode 1920, 1080, 32

After:
Set Display Mode 1920, 1080, 32, 1

If I am interpreting the issue correctly it may be that under normal circumstances the refresh rate of screen is not being set to something the monitor can handle. I believe that turning on VSYNC is forcing the refresh rate to 30 or 60 (documentation advises it is set specifically to monitor refresh rate). I have also seen people playing Mass Effect Andromeda could resolve this issue by playing with refresh rates. Which is why I am inclined to interpret this behavior as such instead of suspecting VSYNC is correcting a "lack of drawing" issue. Keep in mind it has been proven the program is running otherwise normally even while the screen is completely black due to this problem.

An important question now is to determine if there is a way to set the screen refresh rate in code. I have noticed that many DirectX 9 games have this feature but I am not aware of Dark Basic Professional having such a command or supporting commands to detect valid refresh rates.
Back to top
Profile PM
CumQuaT
AGK Master
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Apr 2010
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posted: 5th Jun 2017 13:26
Link
Very interesting!!

I'll give this a try with the issue I'm having and see if it affects anything.
Help out a fellow dev! Download and rate my games! They're free!

Wizzed Off! - (Android) (iOS)
God of Thunder - (Android) (iOS)
Extreme Lawn Mowing - (Android) (iOS)
Back to top
Profile PM Email
zero32
7
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jul 2016
Location:
Posted: 5th Jun 2017 14:28
Link
on my notebook, screen fps() returns 60 with vsync enabled. you could check if it is a different value on your system. maybe it is 59 or 61 or something. then try again with sync rate.
alternatively (i don't know if this may help) i made a simple programm that will start with sync rate 1 and will increase the rate by 1 every second. you can try that and see if you can get a picture.
if you have the matrix1 plugin you can track the current rate value with the open console and print console commands.

Back to top
Profile PM
Barry Pythagoras
10
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Mar 2014
Location:
Posted: 5th Jun 2017 17:23
Link
That is something that could possibly be a hardware setting. there are a few sync settings for graphic hardware. The one that lets programs take control of the vsync is probably the one that works best with DB Pro.
Back to top
Profile PM
CumQuaT
AGK Master
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Apr 2010
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posted: 6th Jun 2017 03:03
Link
Enabling vsync didn't help my players experiencing the rendering freeze
Help out a fellow dev! Download and rate my games! They're free!

Wizzed Off! - (Android) (iOS)
God of Thunder - (Android) (iOS)
Extreme Lawn Mowing - (Android) (iOS)
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 6th Jun 2017 05:08 Edited at: 6th Jun 2017 05:23
Link
CumQuaT wrote: "Enabling vsync didn't help my players experiencing the rendering freeze"


I was able to provide a short example code to demonstrate the issue in this thread.

Perhaps you can provide a similar code example in your thread.


zero32 wrote: "i made a simple programm that will start with sync rate 1 and will increase the rate by 1 every second. you can try that and see if you can get a picture.
if you have the matrix1 plugin you can track the current rate value with the open console and print console commands."

Thanks for the effort but I don't think you understood what I wrote.

1. I explained that you need to enable VSync by passing a 1 to enable VSync with the Set Display Mode command. Set Display Mode 1920, 1080, 32, 1

2. I also mentioned that using Sync Rate had no effect, it's not actually VSync, and your example is designed around the use of this command.

3. It is helpful to mention that the Screen Fps command is not accurate enough and also not precise enough to monitor this issue reliably.

But thanks for offering help
Back to top
Profile PM
CumQuaT
AGK Master
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Apr 2010
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posted: 6th Jun 2017 15:43
Link
The issue with mine is that the symptoms only start happening after the player has been playing a while, and it always happens at the same point. The only problem is, that point has nothing happening at it except the contents of a small string array changing.

This code, by the way, worked perfectly well BEFORE the windows 10 creators update went out. Now it breaks the users' renderer and the sync command no longer works. Sound is still playing, and the player can still interact with the game, because it is actually running in the background. But the screen no longer updates, so visually it looks like the game has frozen, even though it hasn't.
Help out a fellow dev! Download and rate my games! They're free!

Wizzed Off! - (Android) (iOS)
God of Thunder - (Android) (iOS)
Extreme Lawn Mowing - (Android) (iOS)
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 6th Jun 2017 18:56
Link
I replied in your thread on the issue.
https://forum.thegamecreators.com/thread/219512#msg2603981
Back to top
Profile PM
Ortu
DBPro Master
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Nov 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posted: 6th Jun 2017 20:25 Edited at: 6th Jun 2017 20:26
Link
have you tried explicitly setting vsync to 0 to see if that can resolve the issue without needing vsync on?

Set display mode 1920, 1080, 32, 0

as opposed to an implicit setting without the vsync parameter which has the issue

Basically, is it the setting of vsync to 1 or is it the use of the different form of the command that fixes it?

I generally use the full form in which the last three are vsync, multisample, multimonitor:

Set display mode 1920, 1080, 0, 4, 0
http://games.joshkirklin.com/sulium

A single player RPG featuring a branching, player driven storyline of meaningful choices and multiple endings alongside challenging active combat and intelligent AI.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 6th Jun 2017 21:52
Link
No effect.
Back to top
Profile PM
Green Gandalf
VIP Member
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jan 2005
Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 16th Jul 2017 16:35 Edited at: 16th Jul 2017 16:36
Link
Quote: "Eureka: I have made a breakthrough."


I seem to be having problems with my new Desktop which has W10 Creators Edition installed on it. I tried your snippet and had similar experiences to you:

1. the code snippet:

That just displays black - but the saved image is indeed red.

2. Added the vsync parameter set to 1 and as you found the screen now showed red with "HI" rapidly moving to the bottom of the screen where it stays.

3. Any reason for using a hard coded window mode? I usually use the following version of your snippet:



with the same results as before with and without the extra vsync parameter.

4. What's the purpose of the set window off line? I usually have my properties screen setting as FullDesktop which gives the red screen with or without the vsync flags when I comment out that line. Also, there doesn't seem to be any need to reload assets if I alt+tab to different apps. Am I missing something?
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 18th Jul 2017 01:21 Edited at: 18th Jul 2017 03:42
Link
Well well well. How the mighty have fallen.

Green Gandalf wrote: "Added the vsync parameter set to 1 and as you found the screen now showed red with "HI" rapidly moving to the bottom of the screen where it stays. "

Something is going on with Windows 10 creators update and refresh rates in Full Screen Exclusive mode. The monitor is not accepting the resolution and refresh rate DirectX is trying to use. So the game plays in the background normally as the screen remains black. Many video games seem to be affected. Some games set the refresh to 59hz to glitch the screen back into working. Ironic the update is meant to improve PC Gaming specificly. I suspect their changes involve them now faking full screen exclusive mode. You can tell because sometimes you can see your desktop on screen along with the game, instead of a hard desktop mode switch. Requires more investigating to say the least. I remind people that Full Screen Exclusive mode is important because it has less input lag 10-30ms. Full Screen Exclusive draws direct to the screen while Windowed Mode draws to a window and at a later time Windows draws that window to the screen along with everything else, even in full screen windowed mode.

I go off on a tangent here: I need it because it is a work around for avi animations playing in separated detached windows instead of pasted on screen. Something this guy is right now complaining about. Telling him to turn on Full Screen Exclusive mode might seem like quick help, but explaining how to make the game not crash when he minimizes it would be a nightmare. I'll be honest I want to be as welcoming as I can to new people, but I have a hard time getting in depth with someone if it doesn't look like they are serious. He's a year 1 and the opening thread is very spartan and ambiguous. This is why I always try to be very detailed, have presentation, and even use pictures when asking for help so people know it's a serious request and to make people interested. I still try to help new people if I can.

Green Gandalf wrote: "Any reason for using a hard coded window mode? I usually use the following version of your snippet:"

I tend to favor having the example work as same as possible on all computers. Why add complications. Why deliberately put something in your example that you know will run differently on other computers.

Green Gandalf wrote: "What's the purpose of the set window off line? I usually have my properties screen setting as FullDesktop which gives the red screen with or without the vsync flags when I comment out that line. Also, there doesn't seem to be any need to reload assets if I alt+tab to different apps. Am I missing something?"

So you have made a clever observation, and this is a very important detail. You're missing something. You're not in Fullscreen Exclusive mode.
Short Answer: You need set window off in order to use Full Screen Exclusive mode. Forget using the side menu panel (in fact it's a bad idea).

So you can use the side panel "Properties Panel" in Synergy Editor to make the program upon launching go into a specific hard coded Full Screen Exclusive mode resolution (or crash if your computer can't handle it). You can also use Set Display Mode to set the resolution instead. But I have established that you need to use Set Display Mode with the VSync parameter set to 1 (Vsync on), in order for Full Screen Exclusive mode to work properly. You need VSync on. You cannot do that with the Properties side panel. So when you use Set Display Mode you override the Properties panel making it useless (it was bad programming form anyway) . But doing this alone leaves you in a windowed mode. Vsync seems to correct that refresh rate problem I mentioned above.

So change your program example to use Set display mode desktop width(),desktop height(),32,1
The program loads up and you get a red screen with HI printed.
Press the Windows key. What happens? The game minimizes and the Start Menu opens. Full Screen Exclusive mode.

Now go back. Change set window off to set window on.
The program loads up in the same way.
Press the Windows key. What happens? The game does not minimize! The Start Menu and Taskbar opens over top of the game. Borderless Fullscreen Windowed mode.

That is why set window off.
Back to top
Profile PM
Green Gandalf
VIP Member
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jan 2005
Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 18th Jul 2017 12:55
Link
Quote: "Why deliberately put something in your example that you know will run differently on other computers."


That was my point really. Your hard-coded version crashes for me because it's an invalid screen setting.

Quote: "You're missing something. You're not in Fullscreen Exclusive mode.
Short Answer: You need set window off in order to use Full Screen Exclusive mode. Forget using the side menu panel (in fact it's a bad idea)."


I guess I am missing something. I still don't really see the need for full-screen exclusive and can't think of an occasion when I would. But if your users say they need it then fair enough.

Quote: "Well well well. How the mighty have fallen."


Nice of you to say so. Actually, I seem to be getting more than my fair share of PC issues at the moment.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 18th Jul 2017 13:15
Link
I noticed somewhere you were using 1050p screen settings.

Green Gandalf wrote: "I guess I am missing something. I still don't really see the need for full-screen exclusive and can't think of an occasion when I would. But if your users say they need it then fair enough.
"


If that's what this is about then I'll say I'm using it as a workaround for the AVI texture problem. However it's still an issue because the damn thing used to work properly.

It also is a clear example of Windows 10 eroding DBP compatibility, even in programs compiled years ago.

I'll also add that you might think using Full Screen Exclusive mode is more hassle due to the content reloading. However windowed mode is not immune to that. If you lock or sleep the computer for example then it's the same situation. If you are making a product for sale you'd want to make sure it doesn't crash like that.
Back to top
Profile PM
Green Gandalf
VIP Member
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jan 2005
Playing: Malevolence:Sword of Ahkranox, Skyrim, Civ6.
Posted: 18th Jul 2017 13:25 Edited at: 18th Jul 2017 13:26
Link
Agreed.

Now to see if anyone can help my failing exe's problem.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Mage
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location: Canada
Posted: 21st Jul 2017 00:25 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2017 05:03
Link
I just want to point out that while I've been saying that enabling VSync fixes Full Screen Exclusive mode, they must have patched windows 10 again now it's all janky.

This is hard to explain:

So before with out any work around, the screen would be all black in Full Screen Exclusive Mode all the time.

Then as a work around I'd turn on compatibility mode, and turn off the new windows 10 gaming features. The screen would be scaled or squeezed up a little with the taskbar showing (and animating) at the bottom of the screen. Imagine cramming a 1920x1080 screen into a 1920x1000 window. Just imagine the whole screen being lifted from the bottom and crammed/squished revealing what was behind it.

Then I discovered enabling Vsync completely cured the problem.

Now things have changed. The screen is completely Full Screen and Exclusive, however the mouse behaves like the window is still squished up from the bottom a bit. The mouse Y coords are off, the error being less so at the top of the screen and greater as you move the pointer to the bottom. You reach the bottom most Y coord without actually getting the cursor to the bottom of the screen. So if you click the area below that its like you are clicking outside the window, the game minimizes and you end up selecting something on the desktop. Specifically if you click where the taskbar aught to be, even though it is not on screen.
So now I minimize the game and restore it and it corrects the problem, until I use Set Display Mode and then it does it all again.
Back to top
Profile PM
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-04-19 17:03:46
Your offset time is: 2024-04-19 17:03:46