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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / The Game Creators Newsletter Issue 16 is out

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 20:28 Edited at: 20th Apr 2004 20:55
Hi all,

Erf, it keeps on getting larger! This issue we've a range of new product releases, an interview with new TGC member Dave Milton, 20 FPSC Q&A's, a game review of Duo, previews, new DLLs and more.



Grab it from the usual place.

http://www.thegamecreators.com/?gf=newsletter

Cheers,

Rich

With our species on the edge of extermination,
with no prospect but a horrible death,
we actually played games.
ReD_eYe
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 20:56
good stuff, me likey

In the beginning, the universe was created...
This made alot of people very angry and it has been widely regarded as a bad idea...
Visit http://redeye.dbspot.com
Rob K
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 20:59
Great work Rich, a very informative read even for someone who reads DBDN / the forum as much as I do

Looking forward to the release of FPSC (but I'll definately try the demo before I make any firm decisions)

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IanM
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 21:30
Yes indeedy, good newsletter

I'd also like to offer my congrats to Ravey Davey on joining the TGC team ... Winner of the conventions 'Chase the birds around the dance floor' award

Nice one mate. You just need to show up here a little more often now though

*** Coming soon - Network Plug-in - Check my site for info ***
For free Plug-ins, source and the Interface library for Visual C++ 6, .NET and now for Dev-C++ http://www.matrix1.demon.co.uk
Ravey
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 21:36
HAHA thanks Ian - you can certainly cut some shapes on the floor yourself

Regards,
Dave Milton
Check out my games: Diode, Root, Binman & Skateboard Crazy
Proteus
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Posted: 20th Apr 2004 23:12
Nice issue, but there's something wrong in DBDN's webpage (the one that linked from the newsletter:
Quote: "
Membership starts at only $10
"


isn't it £10 ?

Currently coding: MAG
Recent coding: Video Capture Plug-in
I used to be Proteus 1935
EdzUp
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 00:11
Nice one Rav =)

-EdzUp
MikeS
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 01:00
Congrats Ravey

Another excellent newsletter I must say. Things are really booming in the DB world.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 01:11
Quote: "isn't it £10 "

Nope


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Gribbly
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 01:17
great work on the newsletter and great to read the history of Ravey.

Nigel
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 01:40
Cheers for the kind words about DUO Mike and Ravey (8 Amigas? Sounds like my kinda guy). It came as a complete surprise but it’s much appreciated.

Thanks.

MikeS
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 02:13
Also wanted to add that I was thinking about buying the 3D math primer book reviewed.

What perfect timing Mike.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
Manticore Night
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 04:36
That Acoder compo looks real neat.

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
Ideajuice
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 06:52
When you compile the results of your survey, subtract one from the 'do you plan to purchase giles' (no) pile, and add it to the (yes) pile. I voted before I tried the demo.



E Unibus Plurum
walaber
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 07:08
IdeaJuice - Gile[s] is pretty amazing isn't it!

by the way thanks for mentioning the Newton Physics demo in the newsletter!! I have no idea how it got in since I posted it so late, but thanks anyway!!

nice newsletter as usual.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Dave J
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 10:45
Quote: "isn't it £10 ?"


I thought it was actually $15.

Well I'd definately rate this one above last months.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Richard Davey
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 10:58
Quote: "Well I'd definately rate this one above last months."


I can really only write about what has been happening! I guess April was a good month

Next issue has some interesting new information regarding DBPro and maybe U6 if Lee has anything to report, but as always - if you want something featured, email me about it.

Cheers,

Rich

With our species on the edge of extermination,
with no prospect but a horrible death,
we actually played games.
Dave J
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 11:21
I'd be more then happy if you could get Mike to cough up some more information about the DBP SDK or TPC DLL kit or whatever it is that's due to be released after Upgrade 6. As usual, I understand if this cannot be done.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
walaber
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 12:11
I noticed you mentioned the acoders.com competition, I assume this means no official TGC competition anytime soon?

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 12:21
started programming at 7 yrs old? whew.... flaming nerd (j/k)

http://www.tinnedhead.tk under re-construction.
Van B
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 12:35
Nice newsletter Rich, they're getting heavier and heavier every month!.

Without trying to discourage anyone, I don't think the Acoders comp is such a great idea - considering the judges are all from the Acoders forum, my thinking is that they'll go for one of their forum regulars.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
walaber
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 13:12
plus some of the judges have systems with specs that can't run DBPro apps (or would die trying)

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
las6
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 15:46
the DBDN pricing information is messed up.

in the newsletter:
Quote: "We have dropped the membership price to DBDN significantly and it now starts at only $15 for 3 months membership. "


in the dbdn page:
Quote: "Membership starts at only $10 (see price list) "


...and in the price list section of that page:
Quote: "DBDN Membership 3 Months $15
DBDN Membership 6 Months $30
DBDN Membership 12 Months $50 "


?


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Proteus
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 16:53
See... that was what I was talking about

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I used to be Proteus 1935
Peter H
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 17:16
nice newsletter i'm thinking about buying the 3D maths book and gile[s] (have to try demo first though...)


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
Toby Quan
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 21:23
I think the Acoders competition is a good idea because it gives DarkBasic games a chance to compete directly with BlitzBasic games, and C++ games. No DarkBasic competition can compare with that!

It will give us a chance to take our games to a wider audience. And we can show off to the world what we can all do with DarkBasic.

It would be great if the top 2 games in the competition were one from each language (Blitz & Dark). Then people would see that a good game is a good game, no matter what language it was written in.

It may be unfair to assume the Acoder competition judges will be partial to their own forum members. There is no proof. And remember, The Game Creators are one of the sponsers...
Peter H
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 23:52
i think i'll make a game for that compitition...mind you nothing fancy, just simple and original...

Quote: "The Game Creators are one of the sponsers... "




Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
Rob K
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2004 00:16
@Rich

How long does it take you to produce one of these newsletters?

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Ideajuice
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2004 17:11 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2004 17:42
Quote: "IdeaJuice - Gile[s] is pretty amazing isn't it!"


Well it is.. or it would be.

DB Pro botches up the mapping on the lightmaps even when I save as a .dbo file. Since .dbo is proprietary and undocumented, I am dead in the water on this one, and this is the prime reason I bought Giles. I have other apps that can create lightmaps for models, but the .dbo format exporter was supposed to save me a lot of time and grief.

DB Pro tells me that it can't load the .x file if I save it as a .x file. At least the .x file format is documented.. perhaps I can fix these somehow. I already had the means to generate lightmapped .x files though, so if this is the route I need to go I didn't need to spend the money.

I snipped about a page and a half of further ranting. Suffice it to say that having purchased Cartography Shop, and now Giles (for 10.00 more than I would have paid direct), I am not a happy camper.

The lesson in this for me is "never.. never... buy a save disabled demo".

(postscript)

I did get it working. Apologies to the author of Giles for freaking out. It generates a lightmap, but you don't need to (nor should you) manually load and enable this lightmap. You still also need to set specular to 0 on the loaded object. Hopefully this could be added to the help section.. there is nothing in the help section about exporting .dbo files.

E Unibus Plurum
Rob K
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2004 20:32
Quote: "Since .dbo is proprietary and undocumented"


Documentation does exist, if you want I can sent it to you.

BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games. - Plus URL download, win dialogs.
Over 140 new commands
Ideajuice
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2004 21:36 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2004 21:45
That would be great! If it's posted somewhere official, a link would be fine.

If not.. you can email it to [email protected]

Appreciate the assistance.

Still encountering some issues with the .dbo files Giles exports, but it's hard to tell if it's Giles or just generic DB minutae.

Anything in the scene that is transparent needs some reworking to be transparent in DB, and even though I split a model into a transparent and a non-transparent piece, what shows up behind the transparent areas is a .x model (i.e. the skybox model) that is much farther away than the other .dbo file.

I'm just playing around with the giles sample files at the moment. There are a bunch of things I need to do to my own models to make them fit to load into Giles in the first place, and his samples are excellent.

Originally I just thought that DB couldn't handle models with transparent textures that occlude themselves which is why I split it into two pieces, but it's still showing the wrong thing in the alpha mapped areas (the plants and windows in the Roman Bath scene).

The .tga files he was using didn't show up with transparency either, so I created .png files from them with an explicit alpha map, and changed his samples to use those.

ghosting the object just makes it a total mess.

Oh well.. at least I get to still be grumpy about something

(EDIT)

OK.. so changing what order the program loads the .dbo files fixes the issue with the transparency. I had to load the transparent objects first, which is a bit counterintuitive (if there is a draw order issue you would think you would want to draw the transparent things last).

But I think I can infer from this that the engine draws all the .x things first, then it draws all of the .dbo things, and it is probably drawing them in the reverse order that you load them.

Can anyone confirm or refute that assumption?

E Unibus Plurum
Richard Davey
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2004 22:08
Quote: "How long does it take you to produce one of these newsletters?"


I collect items for it constantly. I drag them into my little "newsletter" folder tucked away in my email client. I get emailed all new forum posts (new threads, not replies), so if something interesting appears I'll file it away. If it looks like I don't have much then a week or so before I'll put a message on the forum asking for suggestions.

During the month I get sent things from Rick and the rest of the guys which are added to the pot.

Simon is asked for the new cover image around 1 month in advance.

Finally around the 20th of the month I take the ENTIRE day to sit down and collate all of these things together. It will literally take me from around 9am to 6pm to create and upload the issue. Rick proof-reads it where possible and then we send it out.

They are very hectic days - my wife came home on Tuesday and wondered why I was so engrossed and just said "it's a newsletter day isn't it?" and left me to it until it was sent

Not recommended to talk to me on MSN on one of those days!

On the plus side, it's great fun to see the final issue out and it always has a significantly positive effect on sales the week after an issue.

Cheers,

Rich

With our species on the edge of extermination,
with no prospect but a horrible death,
we actually played games.
Proteus
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2004 00:49
Hey Rob K , can I have the documentation too?

if it's not much trouble

thanks

[email protected]



Currently coding: MAG
Recent coding: Video Capture Plug-in
I used to be Proteus 1935
DrakeX
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2004 01:15
"We have an anticipated release date of Autumn 2004"

so..... P6 release date = christmas 2004?

the nature of fanboy was irrepressible.
predicted DBP P6 release date: Bjork 45, 3418
"i was joyously happy!" - TomBosely
las6
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2004 10:25
they did say it was coming out near christmas... but they didn't specify the year.


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Van B
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2004 13:07
Patch6 is currently in a head-to-head race with Halo2 .


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2004 15:26
Sure you dont mean HL2 ?


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Van B
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2004 19:23
Nah, looking forward to Halo2 more than HL2, I'd have to buy a new PC if I wanted to get excited about HL2!.

Halo2 was s'posed to be released last Sept' or something, it's been delayed and delayed and probably won't be out for a few months yet - just like U6, if Halo2 comes first then I'll have something to do until U6 arrives (like many people I'm using the 'waiting for U6' excuse for not doing very much work).


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Peter H
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Posted: 23rd Apr 2004 20:10
LOL...halo2...they said it was coming out last september...then it was this march...now it's december!


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
DrakeX
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Posted: 24th Apr 2004 17:06
that's.. pretty much the progression of release dates for P6 (and P4, and DBP itself, really).

the nature of fanboy was irrepressible.
predicted DBP P6 release date: Bjork 45, 3418
"i was joyously happy!" - TomBosely
Richard Davey
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Posted: 25th Apr 2004 15:29
Did we ever actually announce a release-date for U6? As in officially? I don't think so

You have to remember, the more code done on FPSC, the more changes happen to DBP at the same time. It's entirely in Lee's hands as to when he starts the next Upgrade process however.

Cheers,

Rich

With our species on the edge of extermination,
with no prospect but a horrible death,
we actually played games.
DrakeX
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Posted: 27th Apr 2004 04:01
"Did we ever actually announce a release-date for U6? As in officially? I don't think so"

i do believe someone of TGC said after FPSC was done. so logically...

but it's pointless to argue over whether or not there was an "official" release date. there is also a large userbase that is eagerly expecting the patch. if you haven't noticed there is about three threads a week asking when P6 comes out. you say it's because they're damn n00bs that don't know how to use the forum search feature (which is next to useless BTW); maybe it's because there is no official news on P6 save for the "ads" in the newsletters and they're hoping it'll be out soon.

the argument (which i find to be true) against a certain competing developer is that he doesn't really listen to the community and does what he wants on his timeframe. i see the same mentality coming out in TGC. YES I KNOW lee's busy "fixing bugs" or whatever, but jeez.. with one forum thread by lee during the ENTIRE development of DBP, and no response to emails sent to him or mike, it kind of seems like TGC is out of touch with the vast majority of the community. technical info on the status of FPSC? none. we've got some nice description of what FPSC does, but how far is it along? you said in another post that work on P6 has not even really started; how are any of the damn n00bs that post P6 threads supposed to know that? there is no news about that.

it's nice to work on other things, but remember: it's been what, almost 8 months since the last patch to DBP. at the rate things are going, i wouldn't be surprised if it took another 3 or 4. a year between patches? that's not to good for your image.

though i agree wholeheartedly that work on FPSC imporves P6. after all, before this, TGC hasn't done anything more with DBP than making programs that randomly execute commands. with the developers making a product with their other product, they can see what the problems are.

the nature of fanboy was irrepressible.
predicted DBP P6 release date: Bjork 45, 3418
"i was joyously happy!" - TomBosely
Richard Davey
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Posted: 27th Apr 2004 04:50
I'd reply, but you moan about everything anyway, so quite frankly I can't be arsed.

As for knowing what Lee is up to, he posts diary entries nearly every single day and has done for a few years now; with plenty of screen shots, technical information and anything else he cares to write. Actually so does Mike come to think of it. If you were on DBDN you'd know this, but you're not, so carry on complaining you don't have a clue what's going on. If you cannot live with the monthly updates, if you demand more information on a daily feed basis, it's available.

With our species on the edge of extermination,
with no prospect but a horrible death,
we actually played games.
DrakeX
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Posted: 27th Apr 2004 05:00
"I'd reply, but you moan about everything anyway"

cause i moaned so much in my post. did you even read it?

"so carry on complaining you don't have a clue what's going on."

THAT'S EXACTLY THE POINT --

i don't have a clue what's going on, and frankly, your "quit complaining" attitude doesn't help matters in the least! you see people asking for info every day, OBVIOUSLY i'm not the only one wanting some!!

alright, give him the stick -- DON'T GIVE HIM THE STICK!!

"Bouncy bouncy lock." - TheCodingArea
TheSquid
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Posted: 27th Apr 2004 05:40
Let me get this straight, in order for the people who paid $100 US Dollars for DB Pro to get any information at all on the progress of the fixes, we have to pay another fee to join a club?

And this is supposed to be ok? I can understand Lee's diary, or whatever it is, with the technical points of FPSC. It's a new product and you don't want to release the details of it to the whole world. I can cope with that.

Why be so damn secretive about the next fix patch for DB Pro? You can't honestly say that work hasn't begun on it because, in his forum post, Lee mentioned several bugs which were fixed, and othes which probably have been since that post effectively died out.

Why make people who already paid for software pay again to get any kind of info on when the 217 (or more by now) confirmed bugs will be fixed? (and yes, I have counted them)

You know, Rich, I'm sure you get tired of people asking about the patch. But those of us who don't want to pay for DBDN get tired of you being so smug to anyone who dare ask a question.
Dave J
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Posted: 27th Apr 2004 10:45
And I wish Microsoft would tell me every single detail about there next version of VS.NET but you don't see me crying to their public relations staff do you?


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
Jess T
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Posted: 27th Apr 2004 11:25
Just a quick side note:

Quote: "If you were on DBDN you'd know this"


DBDN Membership sign-up has been down for quite some time now if I am correct. Thus, we could not sign up to DBDN ( Which, when I found and bought DBP, I wanted to do ), and thus, we cannot become one of the exlusive that can read Lee or Mike's diary's, etc etc.

I know this point is now invalid as DBDN is again accepting new members, but for a while, it wasn't, so those that didn't manage to get in before it went down were left in the dark...

Having said that, I am not really complaining about the status of P6, but it would be nice to have a bit more detail in the newsletter, or every second newletter...

Thanks
Jess

PS Keep up the good work, I think TGC is a great company, and has provided an awesome service along with great products


Team EOD :: Programmer/Logical Engineer/All-Round Nice Guy
las6
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Posted: 27th Apr 2004 12:14
Quote: "If you were on DBDN you'd know this, but you're not, so carry on complaining you don't have a clue what's going on. "


Oh boy... here we go again.
The fact that we would have to pay to know what's up is quite silly. Not only it's costly for us, you lose customers by witholding information about DBpro. Or just about any news.
the news that you get in DBDN should be free for all, and DBDN saved for something else.

As for the patches, I don't think there's a way to end the whining, but it could help some of us, if we would be able to download and test unofficial versions of the upcoming patches. Basically TGC wouldn't have to give these anykind of tech support but people could see if the problem they had with the latest official upgrade has been already fixed.


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 28th Apr 2004 04:45 Edited at: 28th Apr 2004 04:46
If I join the DBDN is there any restrictions to what I can post on these forums about what I read in DBDN? If not I'll join and post things on here. Not technical stuff but more of a progress report.

"People don't fail ..... they stop trying." Specs. P4 2.8GHz 800 FSB | 512MB DDR333
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jrowe
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Posted: 28th Apr 2004 23:13
Quote: "If I join the DBDN is there any restrictions to what I can post on these forums about what I read in DBDN? If not I'll join and post things on here. Not technical stuff but more of a progress report."


Yes you're not allowed to tell people anything that you read in DBDN, read the downloadable contract.


For Fathers and Sons who enjoy wholy spirits.

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