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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Can anyone tell me if DarkBasicPro works on linux? answers please!!!

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code spinneker
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Posted: 14th Oct 2004 12:29
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I need to find out if darkbasic professional works on linux so i can find out if our servers support it anyway i just need to know if it works!
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Mnemonix
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Posted: 14th Oct 2004 12:30
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It doesnt work...

The 3d chat is coming...
In the meantime, come in the IRC. Ask me for details!!.
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code spinneker
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Posted: 14th Oct 2004 12:58
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Are you absolutely sure?
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Eric T
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Posted: 14th Oct 2004 13:03
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It dosen't and it never will.

Next time, read the other 40000000 threads about this.


nFinity Version 2
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code spinneker
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Posted: 14th Oct 2004 14:06
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Sorry havent seen any of them MY MISTAKE!
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cybernetic wraith
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Posted: 14th Oct 2004 14:25
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Shesh... don't be so hard on the guy, at least fill him in with a few details...

Anyway, no it doesn't run with linux, the main reason being that it uses DirectX which is a microsoft-created graphics API.

Personally I would like to see linux support and a conversion to OpenGL since it's faster anyway, but as of now and the near future DarkBASIC and DarkBASIC Pro are Win32-only.

If you are looking for linux 3d support I suggest doing a google search for an open-source 3d engine and teaching yourself C++ (It's not as hard as many make it out to be, though it's not quite BASIC ).
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 14th Oct 2004 19:51 Edited at: 14th Oct 2004 19:51
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DBPro doesn't and never will work on Linux. It will also never move to OpenGL either as we see no long-term mainstream future for that technology (on the PC this is, Mac and Linux users will of course continue with it). Longhorn will change the way DX (WGF) is used a lot and that is the direction we move in.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 14th Oct 2004 21:46
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Yay Longhorn - Yay .NET


DBP_NETLIB_v1.4.3 DarkTOPIA site coming soon!
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David R
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Posted: 14th Oct 2004 22:05 Edited at: 14th Oct 2004 22:10
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Darkbasic doesn't work CORRECTLY under Linux:

WinE and WinEX will both allow it to function with the original EXE provided /home/<NAME>/.wine/fake_windows/ is there. Yet, executables that are made with it create the error:

Quote: ""Screen depth not valid.""


If you have no idea what I'm talking about, then I'll tell you straight: IT DOES WORK UNDER LINUX, BUT REQUIRES FURTHUR TWEAKING TO GET IT TO WORK <ENTIRELY> - WAITING FOR WINEX3.01


[Wine and Winex give DB and other programs the required components such as DiretX recode DLL's and a 'fake' registry for them to work. I even got Halflife and Quake to work under it!]

<img src="http://www.freewebs.com/lightningstudios/lightningstudios_logo.jpg" border=0 />
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 14th Oct 2004 23:45
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@Richard Davey:
Quote: "
as we see no long-term mainstream future for that technology
"


How can you say OpenGL is not gonna be supported for much longer? Its faster than DX, cross platform and I personally think it produces nicer graphics.

The only thing it will have to compete with is Microsoft trying to wrestle the little guy out like it always does (which is a large thing to defeat anyway).

I would love to see DB have an OpenGL option. I have never been massively impressed with DirectX.. mainly because it is an MS product !

My Website: http://www.thingy-ma-jig.co.uk
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flibX0r
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 00:04
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Quote: "How can you say OpenGL is not gonna be supported for much longer?"


Well, as long as John Carmack is making 3d engines, OpenGL will be around


Current Project: Cube3 Arena (TGC Compo Entry)
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Mnemonix
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 00:15
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If he would have looked at the FAQ of DBP he would have seen this question anticipated. Im not being hard on the guy.

The 3d chat is coming...
In the meantime, come in the IRC. Ask me for details!!.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 00:27
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Plus there are a whole lot of answers to silly questions like this in the general discussion area.


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Richard Davey
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 00:32
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Quote: "How can you say OpenGL is not gonna be supported for much longer? Its faster than DX, cross platform and I personally think it produces nicer graphics."


None of the above has anything to do with its potential market-life though. Longhorn will see DX embedded into the OS far more than any previous version of Windows ever has. XNA is a cross-platform arena for games developers (PC, X-Box 2, PDAs, etc). I didn't say it would be a quick process, or that it's the right thing to happen - but I do strongly believe that OpenGL will start loosing out to DirectX *on the PC* within the next 3 to 4 years. With Longhorn around the corner I wouldn't like to be the one with all my eggs in an OpenGL basket. Even if it does render quicker

Cheers,

Rich

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lagmaster
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 00:33
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only thing that works is the installer.

this screenshots shows it cant be done.
(see attachment)

lagmaster - http://www.lagmaster.net was alive! http://www.dbforums.co.uk/ - was another db forum!

Dark Snippet Pro V9.2 is still out!! somewhere

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 00:35
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Thats what happened when I tried DBPro on a Linux machine...


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cybernetic wraith
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 01:02
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Quote: "
DBPro doesn't and never will work on Linux. It will also never move to OpenGL either as we see no long-term mainstream future for that technology (on the PC this is, Mac and Linux users will of course continue with it). Longhorn will change the way DX (WGF) is used a lot and that is the direction we move in."


No mainstream future for OpenGL? You must be kidding...

DirectX has been integrated into Windows for a long time now. Not on the level that is anticipated for Longhorn, but Longhorn is going to be a joke.

Microsoft has abandoned all features that would actually make the OS worth having, such as the new WinFS filesystem. It's trusted hardware initiative thing among many others will probably draw monopoly lawsuits.

Another thing to note is that it'll be hard to get businesses to upgrade to Longhorn when it requires something more powerful than a built-in Intel graphics card.

Naysaying OpenGL just makes no sense in my opinion.
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David T
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 01:41
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Quote: "I have never been massively impressed with DirectX.. mainly because it is an MS product !"


That's a bit biased

@all those who are anti-directx:

It's Lee's choice. If he wants to write it in directx, then so be it. If you feel strongly about making a version using OpenGL - why not try yourself

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 02:14
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Quote: "DirectX has been integrated into Windows for a long time now."


Not really. It's been INCLUDED, certainly. But Windows has never used it in the way Longhorn will.

Quote: "Another thing to note is that it'll be hard to get businesses to upgrade to Longhorn when it requires something more powerful than a built-in Intel graphics card."


That's what everyone said about Windows 95, then about 98, then about XP - etc etc. If you're not running Longhorn in 4 years time, I'll be amazed.

Quote: "Naysaying OpenGL just makes no sense in my opinion."


I didn't "naysay" it, I just said it is not the future on desktop Windows-based PCs. Please prove otherwise?

"I am not young enough to know everything."
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empty
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 02:26 Edited at: 15th Oct 2004 02:27
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On the PC platform- even today- there are more commercial game titles for DirectX than for OpenGl. But I don't think that this means OpenGL has no future, whether DX is integrated into Longhorn or not. Opposed to applications like browsers or email clients, the average user doesn't care too much which API their games use as long as they run OK. So IMO the future of OGL on Windows platforms depends more on the games that'll be released. XBox might play an important role, and soon even more PDAs; but still I believe OGL will happily survive on future Windows OS's.


Quote: "If you're not running Longhorn in 4 years time, I'll be amazed."

Hmm, so you think it'll be released by then?

Play Nice! Play Basic! Out now.

nFinity Emulator. Coming soon.
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IanG
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 02:43
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please can someone lock this because it is fast becoming a opengl - dx battle

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 02:47
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Quote: "Microsoft has abandoned all features that would actually make the OS worth having, such as the new WinFS filesystem"

No, last reports say that WinFS will be optional, and will be released after Longhorn.

Quote: "but Longhorn is going to be a joke."

Not at all.


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empty
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 02:49 Edited at: 15th Oct 2004 02:50
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Quote: " please can someone lock this because it is fast becoming a opengl - dx battle"

No it isn't. It's about the future of OpenGL.

Play Nice! Play Basic! Out now.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 03:16
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Quote: "So IMO the future of OGL on Windows platforms depends more on the games that'll be released."


Absolutely and all I'm trying to point out is that with the impending WGF and XNA most mainstream developers can develop once and then run anywhere (PC, X-Box 2, PDA, mobile device, etc) and this is the technology we will be supporting. Maybe not for a year or so, but it's definitely the future for DarkBASIC.

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Rob K
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 03:20
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Knowing the way Lee's decidedly odd mind works, I think the reason he went for it is because DirectX provides sound, input, multimedia and 3D all in the one package. With OpenGL you are given the 3D tools but with everything else you're on your own.


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 03:20
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This is an active thread! Lol

@ the person who called me biased: I'm not biased - I hate the MS Monopoly thing they have going. Its starting to get silly. I mean they have now implemented their naff webbrowser INTO windows so you cant really get rid of it. I dont like IE any more - I recently moved over to Firefox. Its much faster, more stable and actually obeys the standards and rules of the internet.

I'm not being biased - I just dont like MS products. If linux was as viable application wise, I would move over to it in a flash.. This is, people are still with windows (for some reason). The ONLY good thing I can think of about windows is it is mind numblingly easy to use. MS have made a wizard for nearly every task, unlike Linux where you have to edit setup files and run a lot of stuff from command prompt still.

Also, I know the creators have chosen DX for their API. I'm not arguing that point, or even the point of why they chose it! It was probably a very good choice in terms of compatibility between Windows machines. I just was saying that I think OpenGL would be a good addon at some point. I dont know how hard it would be to put a switch in the compiler and if you chosen Open GL, route the DB functions to OpenGL commands, and if you chose DX route the DB functions to DX. I know there would be problems with incompatible features (shaders, etc). But there MUST be a way around it.

Just my thoughts. None is meant to be taken offensively - I'm not flaming anyone!! Well.. Maybe M$...

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 03:21
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Thats a good point about the all in one feature of DX.. Never thought of that.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 03:39 Edited at: 15th Oct 2004 03:42
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Quote: " dont know how hard it would be to put a switch in the compiler "

If only it was that simple... But its certainly not...

Quote: "But there MUST be a way around it"

Oh yes - but it would probably take another year of development and testing, and shouldn't even be contemplated yet.


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empty
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 03:42
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Quote: "Absolutely and all I'm trying to point out is that with the impending WGF and XNA most mainstream developers can develop once and then run anywhere (PC, X-Box 2, PDA, mobile device, etc) and this is the technology we will be supporting. Maybe not for a year or so, but it's definitely the future for DarkBASIC."

Agreed. And I also agree with your sentence "I wouldn't like to be the one with all my eggs in an OpenGL basket." (Keyword is "all").
But still I do see a "long-term mainstream future for that technology" even on future Windows platforms. At the same time I'm aware of the fact that it all depends on many, currently unforeseeable factors.

Play Nice! Play Basic! Out now.

nFinity Emulator. Coming soon.
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Rob K
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 04:44 Edited at: 15th Oct 2004 04:47
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Quote: "If linux was as viable application wise, I would move over to it in a flash.."


In exactly what sense is Linux not "as viable application-wise"?

Quote: " I dont know how hard it would be to put a switch in the compiler"


Nearly impossible. Every nook and cranny of DarkBASIC is designed with DirectX in mind. I know from the dev diaries that Lee and Mike rely on inbuilt functions for maths and so on as well. Trying to switch from a completely DX-orientated system to a very different API with which neither Mike or Lee have extensive experience (AFAIK) would be very hard.


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 05:07
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Quote: "If linux was as viable application wise, I would move over to it in a flash"


For me personally, Linux isn't suitable as a desktop OS. I just can't have the software I need running on it, simple as that. Which is why I bought a Mac. OS X is gorgeous - the power of Unix, the superb user-interface of Apple and exactly the right software I require (Photoshop, Motion, BBEdit, Zend Studio, etc etc). It's a perfect, albeit slightly more expensive, compromise.

Cheers,

Rich

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Rob K
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 06:19 Edited at: 15th Oct 2004 06:20
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Its certainly hard to find faults in Apple's software or hardware - their production quality is flawless.

Linux definately has some rough edges in places. However, you can get Zend Studio on Linux, whilst PhotoShop, MS Office etc. can be run using Crossover Office (though personally I prefer OpenOffice's Writer program to Word in some ways - particularly when it comes to image handling)

If Linus Torvolds (creator of the Linux kernel) stops being so arrogant with regards to binary drivers that would help the OS a great deal. The steps needed to go through to get 3D working on an ATI or NVidia card are just ridiculous.

(Incidentally I am running FireFox 1.0 on SuSE 9.1 whilst posting this)


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 06:58
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Quote: "In exactly what sense is Linux not "as viable application-wise"?
"

Buggy, unstable and a real pain to use...


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MikeS
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 07:08
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Quote: "" dont know how hard it would be to put a switch in the compiler ""


It wouldn't be hard had it been coded that way from the start. Doesn't make much of a difference to me though whether or not DBP can run on windows or not.

I do have a Linux machine next to me along side my PC to mess around with. Windows is 10 times better in my opinion(Haven't used MAC enough to compare to windows.).



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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 07:13
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Quote: "It wouldn't be hard had it been coded that way from the start"

Still would be - first off, you would have to have two sets of routes for each of the 2D/3D commands
Then for OpenGL, you would have to either some something else for sound & music or use DirectX...


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Straker
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 12:21
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Here's my two cents (albeit previously addressed by Lightning Studios):

http://www.transgaming.com/products_linux.php

DX9 is on their to-do list. Still waiting...

P4 2.4ghz/W2K Pro/512MB/GeForce MX 420 (yeah - it sux)/DX9.0b/GS 1.5 SP1.1/DBP 5.2
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Karlos
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 18:47
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Disliking Direct X just because it's Microsofts is daft.

Microsoft do generally make pretty solid products and just get bad press for windows.

One day if someone makes a better spreadsheet than excel, a wordprocessor better than word, charting software better than visio,a find the mines program better than minesweeper then maybe I'll change my mind.

As for linux. (bearing in mind I use Unix daily) - it's horrid.
I've got a suse build which works but crashes if i've got too many windows open.

Linux should have stuck to the command line. That's where it's power is.

Never tried a mac so can't comment there - they do look nice though.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 19:37
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You may consider it daft, but I just dont like monopolising companies. They have made a product that comes with a lot of other products already installed which is not giving many people a choice. I use Firefox now, as I have said about, and I am trying to convince as many people as possible that it is a better way to browse (in my opinion).

As for my qoute of
Quote: "If linux was as viable application wise, I would move over to it in a flash.."


By that I mean that it cannot really run all the software I want it to run. I like a lot of the programs I run in windows (DB being one of them) and would much prefer to run these under linux as it IS much faster (I found Quake 3 on my old PC ran about 10-20% faster FPS wise).

I have seen some of the Mac stuff and find it quite tempting but again - if I go mac, I lose all the windows software.

What I DO wish more than anything (when it comes to software ) is that every piece of software was cross-platform. This would mean if I wanted to run DB under linux I could and if I wanted to run some linux program in windows I could.

Before I get flamed for that dream - I know its a dream. I know the technical differences and that it would be impossible. I MIGHT be possible to get one OS to accurately emulate the other (plenty of people are working on it.. I am interested to see how RedWine comes out!).

I have a linux box next to me. I didn't bother to install any GUI as it is a server box for website development, etc. It is so much more responsive and, once you know the commands required, so much eaier to setup.

My Website: http://www.thingy-ma-jig.co.uk
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 21:02
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Quote: "I use Firefox now, as I have said about, and I am trying to convince as many people as possible that it is a better way to browse (in my opinion)."


That's because it IS! IE pales in insignificance compared to Firefox

When you then take DX vs. OpenGL however the distinction isn't quite as clear cut.

Personally I've never had any issues of stability with KDE or Gnome really, it's just that Linux as a desktop OS is pretty much useless for me. OS X on the other hand... phworr.. full Unix terminal access (command-line) when-ever you want, rock solid, sexy and runs every single app I need (even DB under Virtual PC). I can't think of many (any?) mainstream PC apps that don't have Mac equivalents. They're web developers fantasies

Cheers,

Rich

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Rob K
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 21:56
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Quit it Rich - I'm jealous already


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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 22:11
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Hmm.. How much is a decent Mac? :p

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 22:17
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See http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore/ for the daft prices Apple try to get from people...


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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 22:21
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Who has a Mac, and what one you have? Those prices dont look tooooo horrendus.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 15th Oct 2004 23:46
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But you get more (and cheaper) with a PC...


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Richard Davey
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Posted: 16th Oct 2004 01:25
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Price wise they're about £200 more than a decent spec PC (unless you go for an Alienware style system). Sure you can buy cheaper PCs, but if you want a 64-bit processor, a good graphics card, a good amount of memory, a good monitor, a good sound-card (none of the on-board crap), wi-fi, bluetooth, firewire and all the other bits, you need to spend at least a grand.

The most important thing about Macs that most PC owners don't understand is the speed rating. They look at the 1.8Ghz tag and think "huh? how slow is that?!" without actually appreciating just how Macs are built internally - coz it ain't the same as a PC.

Cheers,

Rich

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Nicholas Thompson
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Location: Bognor Regis, UK
Posted: 16th Oct 2004 01:45
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Yeah I know that the G4 used to wipe the floors of AMD and the P4.. But I dont know how they fair against the new Prescotts and AMD64's...

My Website: http://www.thingy-ma-jig.co.uk
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Rob K
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Location: Surrey, United Kingdom
Posted: 16th Oct 2004 01:50
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The new G5s are very tasty. Staff at PC World managed to get it playing 6 DVDs at once. This demonstrates the ease of use as well as power.


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Nicholas Thompson
20
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Joined: 6th Sep 2004
Location: Bognor Regis, UK
Posted: 16th Oct 2004 02:34
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hehe.. A little point about that...

1) That implies either 6 DVD drives (meaning 3 IDE sockets each using both master and slave.. unless Mac has different architecture there).
OR
Ripped 6 Disks.

2) WHY OH WHY would you ever want to watch 6 at once!! If its even possible.. lol...

Nick

PS: I Know u woulnd;t want to.. its a showy off thing.. like owning a car than can do 250mph.. YOU CAN NEVER DO THAT ON THE M25!!!! Lol

My Website: http://www.thingy-ma-jig.co.uk
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Joined: 21st Aug 2003
Location: At home
Posted: 16th Oct 2004 02:41 Edited at: 16th Oct 2004 02:42
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Quote: "But I dont know how they fair against the new Prescotts and AMD64's...
"

They are probably still quite a bit faster, which is the main advantage over a PC

You can certainly get a decent spec 64bit processor for less an £1000 - my 64bit laptop was £800


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Richard Davey
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Joined: 30th Apr 2002
Location: On the Jupiter Probe
Posted: 16th Oct 2004 04:50
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Quote: "You can certainly get a decent spec 64bit processor for less an £1000"


Sure, wouldn't doubt that for a second - but then put all the other pieces with it you need to actually make use of the PC in more than the standard desktop variety (i.e. real-time video editing or heavy Photoshop use) Not to mention the fact that Windows doesn't even take advantage of 64-bit processors yet. PCs are fantastic (it's Windows that can suck sometimes) and I'll never get rid of mine, but to under-estimate the power of modern-day G5 Macs is a little, well.. niaeve (not implying you were Nick, just saying in general).

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
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