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Geek Culture / Bush Checking With Our ISP

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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 13:09
Quote: " Anything you consider to be a freedom I can use to infringe on someone elses freedom."


So your saying we should have no freedom? Just do what the government tells us no matter what, no questions asked? Sounds alot like a dictatorship to me, and NO, the US is not quite there yet. You apparently just can't seem to grasp the concept. Do yourself a favor and read the constitution at least before you decide to bash it.


Im only "Apolloed" In Spirit
Antdizzle
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 14:15
It is not like they are taking away our ability to send messages over the Internet, they just want to monitor them. Besides, it is not a freedom anyway since the things we use to chat are controlled by private companies.
ionstream
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 14:50
It's about damn time the Government steps in on the all the crap on the internet. Invasion of privacy, you mean like security cameras in a public place to make sure you don't get murdered?

If you have nothing to hide, you wouldn't be offended by this. But something tells me that not all your internet dealings have been legal.

Sig changed for lagging up browsers.
Van B
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 19:24
Maybe they'll stop and say - hang on, aren't these adware programs against our rights?, should'nt they be treated in the same way as viruses.

Or what about clamping down on what banner ads should contain on sites children visit (like game cheat sites etc).

I imagine that there's a lot a controlling body for the internet could do, but the minute any government get's involved the goal shifts from making a nicer internet to keeping an eye on us. It's all kinda condescending though, I mean does anyone think that terrorist groups had a lot of trouble recruiting before the internet? - or that if the internet did'nt exist, neither would terrorism. The only thing that would change is that it would be much easier to brush it all under the carpet, it's easier to deny something happend when there's no effective way for them to proove it (like through video).

I would say that video cameras should be welcome everywhere - they vastly increase public safety despite their 'big brother' tag.

Anyhoo, Scots invented the phone and television, there would'nt be much of an internet without those, so we're taking all the credit . Ohh, and we invented radar, so we're taking the credit for winning WWII as well, sod the French Wiki-dudes.


Van-B

Benjamin
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 21:51
Quote: "It makes the data streams reliable because.. (look it up on Wikipedia if your not sure)
Quite simply it uses a Data Package configuration which allows data to be sent in an un-synronised mannor between two connected computers. As the computers do not need to be syncronised for a raw data transfer, it means that data can be split up and reconstructed later through a buffer."

I see what you mean now. I didn't quite understand what you meant earlier.


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2005 07:10
Quote: "if you have something to hide then you deserve to have your privacy violated."

I hear that one all the time. While true, where the real problem in this case lies is that privacy invasion (while obviously necessary in specific circumstances, you know: terrorism, child pornography, stuff like that), is a power of the government that is being abused. Everybody's clinging opposite ends of the damn issue, and if we don't find some intermediate point we'll just end up as a country of feuding Hippies and dictatorial types. Something similar to this happened about 140 years ago.

Jimmy, you might want to read up on how many people are convicted of a crime and then later are found to be innocent, even after being in jail for X years or having even been executed. Privacy invasion can only lead to more instances like that, anything you say can be taken out of context and used against you. In the end, everything can kill somebody.

Crazy Donut Productions
Current Project: A Redneck game
qwe
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2005 07:28
Quote: "I call it, the interben!"
how about the Darknet or Interbasic?

sync on
Jimmy
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2005 07:34
Quote: "Jimmy, you might want to read up on how many people are convicted of a crime and then later are found to be innocent, even after being in jail for X years or having even been executed. Privacy invasion can only lead to more instances like that, anything you say can be taken out of context and used against you. In the end, everything can kill somebody."


I don't have to read anything to know that it happens. I know people are stupid. But that number can't compare to the number of people that are put away justly.

Besides, isn't this all about law enforcement officials being able to invade your privacy without getting a warrant? I mean, either way it's going to happen. Now it'll just happen faster.

Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2005 09:33
Quote: "I would say that video cameras should be welcome everywhere - they vastly increase public safety despite their 'big brother' tag."


So would complete video monitoring of every room in your home. There's no difference in the tactic or the excecution; it's just one step further towards complete government control.

Jimmy
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2005 09:42
Control over what?

Perokreco
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2005 21:47
Over peoples lives.You should read books by George Orwell
dj blackdragon3710
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2005 02:30
This may have been from awhile back in this thread but:

Quote: "when he finally gets booted out next time, I hope we get a compitent president"


That will never happen .

Quote: "Well not exactly sure how Canada is set up BUT US is setup on the basis of freedom's. If people are threatened by being thrown in jail or interigated for saying the wrong thing...then it's not exactly freedom. If people will be arrested for making or frequently visiting an "IM GOING TO BOMB AMERICA" site then that is not freedom. If anyone has ACTUALLY read the US Constitution(which I doubt), you would see that the stupid US government does not exactly follow it(on many issues). The US Constitution was also setup to be the highest ruling power, but that has also been forgotten. Maybe im the only one that is able to see this, but Americans are losing more and more freedom's every day. At this rate, the US will be changing governments in no time. Whatever happened to good 'ole Republic Democracy, I shall never know."


If you don't like the US so much, why don't you move? I don't disagree with everything, you just seem to constantly bash the Nation that you live in.

[edit] And I do know this is from a long time ago in this conversation but hey, I just started reading it... . Heh, first day of finals, 2 days to go....year be almost over . Ok, back on whatever the topic is...

<<<<<Used to be "djblackdragon" with being registered in January, 2003, no matter what it says on the left<<<<<
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2005 16:27
Well put Jimmy, but as Mouse said, it's creeping toward a direction we don't want to go in. Although nothing will probably come of it. Since we get a new person every 4-8 years it'd be hard to make huge permanent changes.

@djBlackDragon
There's a difference between bashing the current adminstration and bashing your Nation. I have a slightly-stronger-than-average distaste for Bush and Cheney and some other guys, but I love America and everything it stands for, and I think we have the coolest military technology (not saying anybody else is bad of course! Australia has that cool million round a minute gun).

Crazy Donut Productions
Current Project: A Redneck game
dj blackdragon3710
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Posted: 4th Jun 2005 01:04
I get your point. That's not the way I meant it to sound. I still highly doubt that there will ever be a truly "good" president though....

<<<<<Used to be "djblackdragon" with being registered in January, 2003, no matter what it says on the left<<<<<
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 4th Jun 2005 23:01 Edited at: 4th Jun 2005 23:02
Quote: "So if your country (as if you owned it) had just been attacked my loads of evil sadistic muslim ********, would you juet 'let it go' and ignore muslim people? I belive you would be a bit anxious of muslim people after something like that - like the world is now."


nice to know the mentality of some people. i have a bomb strapped to me right now, it could blow up this entire island

you suck. no one's ever scared of the irish or ETA after their terrorist attacks, or scared of any russian mafia.

just remember that before bush came into power, no one cared about us. no one cared about terrorism, its just when something happens to the US the whole worlds expected to give a f**k. the UK could get bombed to hell by the IRA, spain and france could get flattened by ETA, would the world, or even america be expected to give a f**k? no.

just because it happened to america, and the people who attacked america were people who took Islam too far out of context, (the same thing the KKK did to black people after taking catholisism too far- thats a point- how come nothing ever done about them? as far as i know the KKK's still in existance, not actively but still a racist sh*t coalition.) suddenly the whole world has to hate muslims, and suckers like you fall for it, whereas everyone expected to love the irish and ETA, cos they never touched the US, if they did then bush would probably start a war against leprichauns (sp?).

Maybe if america started giving the world some respect then people wouldn't have a reason to bomb it, but no, "this is america" they say, "we dont care about the rest fo the world". thats fair enough. you can fence yourselves in, but you cant fence the world out. but then how can you justify a war in iraq to free its people of an evil dictator if you dont care about them?

"we're freeing hundreds of innocent iraqi's"
but hundreds are dying to
"so? this is america, we dont care about dam eye-rack-ees, those muslim f**kers can go to hell"

and yesterday i saw on the news, in preparation for the G8, the world leaders were seriously considering cancelling 3rd world debt, except bush who says (and i quote) "our budget can't afford that".

and you expect the world to love you?

people aren't terrorists for thrills, they're terrorists because they have something to fight for, whether its an end to oppression, or just to defend his famaly's lives.

for as long as people take away civil liberties and trade them for bills which allow invasion of privacy (dont tell me you wouldnt care if they're put a camera in your room and filmed you having sex just to make suire you werent planning an evil plot) people will always fight for those rights.

as soon as the US gives the world its freedome back, people will stop fighting in an attempt to force freedome back.
Ian T
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Posted: 5th Jun 2005 07:53
Quote: "just remember that before bush came into power, no one cared about us. no one cared about terrorism"


That's completely untrue. There was a terrorist attack on the US every year of Clinton's administration and Al Quaeda was actively planning to harm the country. There was the same stupid fear of Muslims some people have that there is today. Bush has not helped it grow at all. In fact, by his active work helping to create peace in the Middle East, I think he has greatly diminished the phobia that could have sprung up in people's minds.

Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 5th Jun 2005 09:12 Edited at: 5th Jun 2005 09:13
sorry to say it mouse, but in the UK its been the complete opposite.
Ian T
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Posted: 5th Jun 2005 09:17
Sorry it's like that. I honestly don't see why in the world the actions of a US leader would make the British people more racist when he's generally hated there anyway... but, you live there, I'll take your word for it.

Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 9th Jun 2005 22:03
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 9th Jun 2005 23:51
dam you had to bring this post back p didnt ye?
Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 00:04
yes.

Don't look at me like that!
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 00:20
oh well while its up, a point i'd like to make is:

everyone's always saying "if you havent done anything wrong, or you're not a terrorist, you shouldnt be bothered"

i totally disagree. life will get so much more inconvenient, journey times will eventually get longer and longer as you have to go through more and more checkpoints just to go to the library or to go to work every morning.

"driver's ID gives you the right to drive a car, Passport ID gives you the right to go abroad, personal ID gives you the right to leave youre home" <--- some comedien on TV

another point is, even if you're not a terrorist you could get into trouble. this is just one example: say you find youeself in some government conspiracy, which you werent meant to find out about, the governement could do anything they wanted to you by altering the details on your ID card, stuff like "this man is a seriel child rapist" and then no one would wanna talk to the guy again, or believe what he had to say. he'd become an outcast to society, even if he hadn't even planned on telling everyone about what he discovered.

may be a bad example since it's not every day someone walks into a top secret government thing like the watergate scandal, but im sure you get my drift.

anyway i should be revising for exams tomorrow...
Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 00:23
Quote: "another point is, even if you're not a terrorist you could get into trouble. this is just one example: say you find youeself in some government conspiracy, which you werent meant to find out about, the governement could do anything they wanted to you by altering the details on your ID card, stuff like "this man is a seriel child rapist" and then no one would wanna talk to the guy again, or believe what he had to say. he'd become an outcast to society, even if he hadn't even planned on telling everyone about what he discovered."


So your saying its a good thing the government could have the power to ruin your life?

Don't look at me like that!
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 00:25 Edited at: 10th Jun 2005 00:25
yes im saying its a good thing the government could have the power to ruin your life

what are you? stupid?
Benjamin
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 00:28
No, hes Leys2.


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 00:36
Quote: " yes im saying its a good thing the government could have the power to ruin your life"


In that case, I shall hope it happens to you, maybe you will think differently then.

Don't look at me like that!
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 00:40
do you not know sarcasm?
Jeku
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 02:20 Edited at: 10th Jun 2005 02:21
Leys2 is obviously just trying to cause a stir and disagree with everyone, even those who agree with him. It's getting quite old and it's not funny.

While it's true that Canada is a target by extremist Islamists as is the US, you guys are more anal about privacy and security. I mean, I just read an article in Wired about how a town freaked out when the children at an elementary school were told to wear RFID badges for their own protection. The parents were terrified that their little Billy and little Janie's privacy was being taken away. Stupid people will always be stupid, period. That's just too bad that there are people who see every single new technology as evil.


--[R.O.B.O.I. and FireTris Coming Soon]--
David R
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 02:23
Quote: "I just read an article in Wired"


Everytime I hear that magazine, it just reminds me of the Simpsons.
Cracks me up everytime

(Not going off-topic am I? *Shifty eyes*)

[url=www.lightningstudios.co.uk][/url]
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 04:06
Quote: "That's just too bad that there are people who see every single new technology as evil."


i dont know if thats being aimed at me or any other pro-privacy persons, but if so, i strongly dissagree with that statement.

i praise new technology, i welcome the idea of GM foods/crops/etc, i dont support the idea of abortion, i'm pro nuclear and against macdonalds.

theres a whole load of "new technolog[ies]" that i agree with and others i disagree with, however, the thing i care about most is basic civil rights and humanity
Jeku
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 05:45
Actually I was targetting that statement at the town who were put out in a big way over the RFID tags


--[R.O.B.O.I. and FireTris Coming Soon]--
Ian T
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 05:51
Well here's a cheat sheet:

= evil

= good

= evil

= good

= evil

= good

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